Just curious. . .How many people's lives have

[stellanoir]

Poll question: Just curious. . .How many people's lives have

been personally influenced directly or indirectly by the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan ?

This poll was inspired by this thread. . .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2477378

Since I can't vote in my own poll my story is here. . .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=985806

They can be third party contacts but I'm asking about people from your personal or professional lives, not just people you've heard of through the media.

Do you. . .

edited to fix the second link

[TheUniverse]

1. A girl I was in the 3rd grade with died in Iraq.

I didn't really know her, but it was pretty sad. Thankfully the Phelps assholes didn't come to town.

[stellanoir]

2. Who are the "Phelps assholes?"

[TheUniverse]

3. Here's some information on them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church


They are a family that goes around picketed soldier's funerals with signs saying stuff like "Thank God for dead soldiers" because of there weird religious beliefs.

[stellanoir]

4. ewwwww

I had heard of people doing that but hadn't caught the name.

I learned of an acronym last week that would apply.

ROPMA = "Religion of Peace My Ass"

[stellanoir]

5. Wow

This just shows you how screwy polls can be.

Because I was curious of specific circumstances, some might might not notice that so far 16 out of 23 people have at least casual contacts who've been influenced by these conflicts. That's a greater percentage than I anticipated.

Those superficially skewed results sort of remind me of the absurdity of how the punditry always compares the approval ratings of the pRes and Congress. That really bugs me because how can one compare opinion of one person versus a diverse body of people who are pretty much divided over most things and staunch members of both parties would invariably disapprove of their opposition.

I don't post polls very much but it always astonishes me how few people vote versus the number of views.

[I Have A Dream]

44. Hey, stella, the people who have voted might come back several times...

each to check on the latest results. That would make the view numbers much bigger that the number of votes. (i.e., doesn't necessarily mean that lots of people are reading but not voting.)

:hi:

[Squatch]

6. I'm in the Army

Since I am in the Army, I know dozens upon dozens of people's lives that have been affected by this war. Everything from seeing my classmate's body coming home in a coffee can to one of my NCOs who earned 3 purple hearts and volunteered to go back on his 3rd deployment.

I, myself, am going to Afghanistan next year.

[stellanoir]

9. Yeah I was thinking I maybe should have put an

"in the military" option but I wanted the other specifics and ran out of options.

OMG "coming home in a coffee can" is quite the image.

Condolences to you.

Great protection and safety to you on your tour.

[Squatch]

42. He and his 1SG were both killed instantly by an IED 4 years ago.

Though his remains came home in a casket, there was not much left of him. His wife was pregnant at the time and we have since failed to keep in contact. :(

Holy crap... 4 fucking years have gone by already (27 Jan 04). Here's to you, Matt. RIP.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. My grandfather fought in Afghanistan with the Brit Army.

He fought the same kind of people, for the same kind of reasons. But, at least the Brits made no bones about being an empire.

Also, my (step) son-in-law is career Air Force (and an idiot) has spent 3 tours there.

[Ripley]

8. I know of someone KIA in Iraq.

This guy I know is a former marine and was proud that his son joined up and went in right after Shock and Awe. After his son was killed, I saw him and understandably he looked awful. It shocked me that he had changed his mind about the war and Bush and yes, even the marines. He was so disillusioned and in my head I was thinking "how could You have been so blind?" but my heart broke for him and I tried to say comforting things. Difficult to do.

[stellanoir]

12. The one I knew spuriously who was KIA

signed up under Clinton. His mother wasn't thrilled with his choice at all at the time.

Yeah the awkwardness of trying to say comforting things in the face of a great loss makes all the politics seem trivial, though they certainly have everything to do with causation.

My heart really especially goes out to the National Guardsmen who signed up to throw sandbags around in Hurricanes stateside who ended up deployed over there.

It's just so terribly unfair.

[tekisui]

10. I have a BIL in Afghanistan, and knew several from high school

that went to Iraq.

My Brother-in-law's vehicle was hit by an IED in Afghanistan. He and his partner were able to crawl away to safety. Later, he was bleeding from his ears.

They kept him there. He's home for about a couple weeks, he goes back soon.

[stellanoir]

13. My friend's kid sustained an injury to one of his legs in boot camp

that was never treated properly or allowed to heal. So he was gimping through his second tour of Iraq when he was KIA.

He had told his mom that the entire platoon was on antidepressants that stateside have the warning label "Do not operate heavy machinery" on them, but I guess they are perfectly fine to take in a war zone.

Great protection and safety to your Brother-in-law.

[alcibiades_mystery]

11. These conflicts have had no effect on me at all

Well, at least in terms of personal relationships. The social consequences touch everybody.

I do not know even one person connected with any of these conflicts. That would be ZERO. And I have a fairly large circle of acquaintances.

[stellanoir]

15. I expected to see more responses similar to yours

but I guess since we're nearly in the 5th year of this mess the repercussions are spreading.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

25. interesting.....

I know of 2 people in both conflicts, both are siblings of neighbors in my small (20 units) apartment building.

A very interesting poll, thanks.

[Solly Mack]

14. Mine...and it still is

I know people who served (and still serving) in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Injured in both places.Killed in both places....maimed as well. PTSD - check.

[Nay]

16. Friend and coworker was killed in Iraq, when one of those huge

helicopters went down. He was a nice guy, and his cousin is one of my good friends. It is a travesty that this bullshit war is still going on, or that it ever started.

[stellanoir]

17. Sincerest condolences

and I couldn't agree with you more.

[Nay]

32. Thanks. It really hit my friend hard--he is former Army and tried to

talk his cousin out of joining up since he knew he would end up in Iraq, and my friend has been against the war from the beginning. He feared the worst, and that's what he got. A dead cousin.

[etherealtruth]

18. I don't personally know a soul ...

... that has served in either Iraq or Afghanistan.

It is very telling that my "white" middle class life has not been personally touched by the Chimp's ill-conceived immoral invasions.

While i don't wish personal loss or the horrors of war to touch anyone ... I do believe the lack of contact with those that have served (or those that have lost loved ones) is a large factor in the apathy among Americans.

[stellanoir]

20. Yup

it is a large factor.

With that lack of contact coupled with the cursory and dishonest way the media covers what is going on, it's as though we are a nation of ostriches or something.

[goodgd_yall]

48. There is no draft.

If there was, the number of people who would know of someone who at least had served in Iraq would be larger.

[undeterred]

19. In a few weeks the first person I know personally is going to Iraq

to serve. He is career Air National Guard and is supposed to work here in Madison permanently. But he and the person he job shares with have both been called to serve- the other person is coming home this month and he is leaving in a few weeks. He will not be in combat because he services aircraft.

But I hate to see him go, first because I do not want anything bad to happen to him, but second because he belongs here as part of our homeland Air National Defense. Talking to him has made me acutely aware that our homeland security is being cut in half by taking the National Guard away from their post in the United States.

[stellanoir]

22. In my state last week

a slew of school buses were stranded in a snow storm and some of the kids didn't make it home until 10:30-11:00 pm.

The guardsman totally could have helped out with that situation if just on the level of communication, never mind transportation.

Parents had no clue where the kids were stranded.

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/projo/access/1398734591.html?dids=1398734591:1398734591&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Dec+14%2C+2007&author=Lynn+Arditi&pub=The+Providence+Journal&edition=&startpage=A.1&desc=A+crippling+storm

[undeterred]

24. Thats not right.

If its an immediate emergency- there's no one to help. The same was true for Hurricane Katrina in NOLA and the bridge collapse in Minnesota.

With the Air National Defense at Truax in Madison- thats where they would scramble F-16s for an attack on Chicago, and the staff is cut in half... you can't move Guard from other states there to cover for them very quickly. I think the Governors need to get together and put a stop to this now.

[stellanoir]

29. I agree with you

but I think the Governors would have protested this long ago if they weren't held hostage by the potential of needing to file for Federal Funding for emergency disaster relief. That's to say nothing about other ways in which they are reliant on the Feds for funding and services.

Ack. . .

[undeterred]

30. We had tornadoes through here a year and a half ago

and one area was hit particularly badly. The request for emergency disaster relief was turned down. Well guess what- its a democratic Congressional District with a Democratic Governor in a state with 2 Democratic Senators... I guess the Federal Government basically said screw you, Democrats.

Now, if it had happened in Sensenbrenner's district, things might have been different.

[stellanoir]

36. It's so pathetic.

In earlier years, it was just assumed that emergency disaster relief was granted.

Now it seems as though they're intentionally depopulating regions for what Naomi Klein refers to as disaster capitalism.

Yikes

But they are happy to build bridges to nowhere.

[Cerridwen]

21. Several co-workers of my SO. I just met them the other night.

Nice "boys" - they're very young. I can't believe I'm old enough to say that. But, they are. They're all under 25. But, that's not what I mean by young. I mean they're just a bunch of playful kids who want to party and drive cars and date and all the usual "teen-aged" things we did when we were "kids." They remind me of a group of Great Dane puppies who haven't grown into their feet yet. But, each of them has an occasional look, a "feel" to them, that is anything but young and playful. One of them has been to Iraq 3 times already. He's currently "keeping a low profile" so he doesn't have to go back again.

But, the one who still haunts me I met about 3 years ago. I had rescued some two-week old kittens. I'd stayed home from work since they need hand feeding and I couldn't take any more time off. I put out an "emergency" email to all my cat-loving friends. I needed someone who could take them who had the time to continue the hand feeding and litter box training. A friend of one of my friends brought her friend who was just back from Iraq. I swear, Stella, that girl looked to be only 12 years old. She was this young, beautiful woman whose eyes - oh, I don't even have words for her eyes. They were empty and full of despair all at the same time. There was something else in them, too, hope? love? relief? It's hard to say. She couldn't maintain eye contact. Her friend did most of her talking. I convinced her to take the last 2 kitties and she could choose which one to keep and take care of the other one until I could find a home for the one she didn't choose. Her friend called me a couple of days later and said she'd decided to keep both. It seems this young woman was suffering PTSD and each time she started to feel anxiety coming on, the kitties picked up on it went to her and calmed her down. The best healers on our planet, our four-legged friends; and these kitties proved it. That was the most rewarding animal rescue I've ever done. I think it included a smattering of human rescue as well. I still miss those kitties, but, damn, that girl broke my heart.

:cry:

[stellanoir]

23. Great rescue story Cerridwen !!!

I wonder about the way in which psychological labels are bandied about so liberally.

When we refer to them as disorders instead of processes of shock and recovery.

I hope she heals from her experience.

I'm sure the now kitties have been of continued comfort.

[Cerridwen]

27. It's my all time favorite.

:D

Not because I rescued kitties. But, because of the way in which one seemingly insignificant incident helped someone in a fashion we might not normally think about. A combination of serendipity, the "law" of unintended consequences, and how doing the right thing (just cuz) can come together for positive change and healing. Even "non-woos" ( ;) ) can see how it played out. It was a bunch of fine coincidences. :D

I agree with you about psychological labels. I almost didn't use the label in my post for that reason. Unfortunately, it's a label many here would understand the implications of and so was useful as a descriptor. When I read Judith Duerk's "Circle of Stones" I realized that we may have made syndromes and illnesses of many emotions and emotional reactions which may be nothing more than the pieces and parts of the breadth and width of human emotional and spiritual growth and change. Okay, that's a topic for another thread. :D I'll not hijack your poll any longer.

Great poll, btw. To quote someone whose name I don't know "The casualties in any war are 100%" Whether we experience it first hand or "just" through our community and/or jobs, we are all impacted by and become casualties of war.

[stellanoir]

31. Truly even some "non-woos" might

"take what (they) have gathered from coincidence."

Yeah I put the label in the poll simply for convenience sake and you can hijack my threads anytime especially with a good book recommendation.

Here's one I'm looking forward to reading after the holidays. . . http://www.cosmosandpsyche.com/

The thing that surprised me about this poll was that it does not support the conventional wisdom that the reason that their isn't more overwhelming protest to the wars is because such a small percentage of the population directly impacted. A whopping 75% of the responders have been directly or indirectly impacted.

But in the broader sense I totally agree with that quotation.

[dropkickpa]

26. My cousin's husband

Is an army doctor, currently in Iraq. A good friends younger brother (who played baseball with my youngest brother for 12 years) is in Bahgdad. A girl I babysat was injured in Iraq.

[Batgirl]

28. know (distantly) a couple of kids

A friend's niece and some sort of cousin-in-law. Both of them from poor rural areas in Michigan, former farming communities where little farming is done now, yet the 40-acre parcels are not in an area where McMansion developers want to build either. The girl figured this was the only way realistically she would be able to eventually receive a college education. The boy seemed to feel this was his way out of the place he grew up. (He got a tattoo before leaving, one so large and over-the-top in its effort to convey fearsomeness as to clearly telegraph the fear for which it must compensate. Having raised sons I have much compassion for the the false bravado of young males.)

This is an interesting idea for a poll. I've wondered for a few years now about the large number of half-mast flags (on businesses and on private residences) I see while out driving, a distance that routinely stretches from metro Detroit to Cadillac. At first I'd be wondering what national tragedy had happened that I'd somehow missed. Or maybe another former president had died and everyone knew about it except me because of course it hadn't been announced on Bluesville. After awhile when there was never any such explanation for all the lowered flags I started wondering if these were friends, family, former classmates and coworkers of yet another someone else who got killed in Iraq.

[treestar]

33. I know of a 22 year old who was killed in Iraq

What a waste.

I have a cousin who was there but now is stationed in the U.S.

I know both of them were eager to get over there and kill as many "sand people" as they could. Not every soldier is heroic - that's why I have little tolerance for the concept that all of them are heroes and that we owe them.

They must know this war is unnecessary just as we do.

[stellanoir]

40. One would think they would know that as it is basically humane to know that.

The propaganda and brainwashing is more alluring than the challenge of critical thinking for all too many.

[Solon]

34. No one in my immediate family, but...

My Aunt's mother died recently, and one of her grandchildren is in Iraq, in addition, my best friend's brother is in Iraq as well.

[Lugnut]

35. My 30 year old cousin

He was killed in the mess tent bombing at Mosul in Dec. 2004.

Another young cousin shipped out to Iraq in early December.

[stellanoir]

41. Condolences to you and your family

and great protection and safety to your living cousin during his upcoming tour.

[uppityperson]

37. Know personally of several who have been wounded (PTSD) .

Most those I know who have served have PTSD.

[Blue_In_AK]

38. We are reminded of the casualties of these conflicts

here in Alaska quite a bit because we have such a strong military presence, and our local media is good about publicizing the details, so although I don't know these people personally, I almost feel like I do.

I was/am a strong supporter of Diane Benson for Congress, both last year and next year. Her son Latseen lost both of his legs to an IED in Iraq in 2005, which is what motivated Diane to run for Congress.

[Catshrink]

39. Other

My nephew will be deployed to Afghanistan in '09.

[stellanoir]

45. Yup

I totally should have deployed a soon to be deployed option.

Mea Culpa,

[Paulie]

43. I have a co-worker who lost her 70+ year old grandfather

during the invasion. Which option do I choose?

[Feron]

46. Brother of HS friend killed in Iraq

I selected KIA, but he was actually killed in an accident. What made it even worse was that he left behind a wife and baby. :(

[Raine]

47. Don't know anyone nt

[ConsAreLiars]

49. I don't know anyone sent to murder the people of those countries, but

I've known their victims of that mass murder in Afghanistan and enjoyed the hospitality of people in Iran (I would have expected no real difference in treatment by people in Iraq). I pity those who have been put into the position of murdering innocents. The best of them will live in hell for the rest of their lives, and the remainder will have had taken from them all claim to being human. What a monstrous tragedy.

[stellanoir]

51. I would consider those on both sides of this travesty to be victims for sure.

[babylonsister]

50. I have no personal touch to this war yet, but have three nephews

in the Coast Guard, two of them who are newbies.
I don't want anyone else to go over there, ever. I never wanted this to happen, and the deaths and injuries that aren't being talked about need to be.
This occupation is illegal and needs to be over.

[stellanoir]

53. hey sis

Don't you find the results of this poll to be curious ?

I was surprised so many have direct and indirect contact with those impacted by these heinous conflicts.

The people who don't know anyone who's been impacted mostly hovered at around 20% since I posted it and never got higher than 25%.

One of my very intuitive friends said five years ago when the war mongers were rattling their sabers, "If we go in we'll never get out."

I didn't want to believe him then, and don't want to now.

And do you ever sleep. . .?

:hi:

[cali]

52. I come from Vermont, and have a son who's 21

so of course I know young people who have been in Iraq. One of my son's erstwhile close friends served in Iraq and came back a complete mess. Aggressive, reckless and with a hair trigger temper that there was no evidence of before he served. Three people from my very, very small town have been killed and I know, to say hello to, the family of one of them.

[stellanoir]

54. And one wonders how many small rural towns

share similar circumstances.

So sad.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

55. My Brother and his Wife were military in 2000

My bother had his retirement delayed because of stop loss for a good long time but never got deployed (Navy) in the ME, his wife has a second hitch in Iraq coming up (Air Force Medic)