Harry Reid plans to move the FISA bill WITH immunity forward tomorrow.

[madfloridian]

Harry Reid has the choice of which bill to move forward, the one without telecom immunity, or the one with it. I think it is safe now to say he is not the leader we need.

He has, according to the ACLU, made his choice to move forward the one WITH immunity. He is going against the wishes of the majority of the people, especially the majority within his own party.

We just keep on giving up every chance to fight and change things.

From the email:

Dear Friend,

As soon as tomorrow, the Senate will begin to debate legislation that would give the president greatly expanded powers to spy on Americans. There isn't a moment to lose. Call now.

Even though the Senate Judiciary Committee passed legislation that provides greater protections for privacy and doesn’t give amnesty to telecommunications companies, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid has decided to move the bad Senate Intelligence Committee bill. This is not good news for those of us who respect freedom, the rule of law and the Constitution

https://secure.aclu.org/site/Advocacy?alertId=783&pg=makeACall&JServSessionIdr012=s1cnprfhf1.app24a

This Intelligence Committee bill, negotiated closely between the Bush administration and Senator Rockefeller, contains retroactive immunity for the phone companies that illegally turned over private phone and email records to the government and completely eliminates warrants and court review of government spying.

Instead of capitulating to the White House, senators should be listening to you. Recent polls show that 61% of American voters believe the government should have to get a warrant from a court before wiretapping the overseas conversations of U.S. citizens. And 59% of American voters reject amnesty for phone companies that may have violated the law.

Sadly, Senator Reid is asking senators to decide where they stand on spying after a secret meeting taking place today with Attorney General Mukasey and Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell, a day before voting is scheduled to take place. Director McConnell played a central role in negotiations around the Protect America Act and, acting on behalf of the White House, used questionable tactics and misinformation to convince members to eviscerate the Fourth Amendment.

Because this meeting is secret, we obviously don’t know what’s going on behind closed doors. But if history is any guide, this meeting could be used to provide misleading information about the current threats facing America to scare your senators into continuing the Bush Administration’s secret spying free-for-all.

Looks like Harry is choosing to govern in secret, and not listen to the hundreds of thousands of the people who have already contacted him about NO IMMUNITY for telecoms.

They are not governing as the people want, they are governing as Bush wants them to do.

That is not leading, that is capitulating.

ON EDIT...more from the ACLU...Reid has created two "fisa frankensteins."

What Harry's doing on the FISA Bill

We implore Senator Reid to lead," said Caroline Fredrickson, director of the ACLU Washington Legislative Office. "Reid has set up a Catch-22 that forces senators to choose either no immunity for the telecoms or minimal Fourth Amendment protections – but not both at the same time. The ACLU is not ready to accept the two current options as the only possibilities. The American people should not have to choose between telecom immunity and warrantless wiretapping."

Fredrickson explained that Senator Reid employed a little-used Senate rule – Rule Fourteen – to bring up two different FISA bills taken from legislation passed by the Senate Intelligence and Judiciary Committees. The first bill, S. 2440, will be Titles 1 and 3 of the intelligence bill and does not include telecom immunity. The second, S. 2441, will be Titles 1 of the judiciary bill and 2 and 3 of the intelligence bill, which does include immunity. She explained that from the ACLU’s perspective, "Another way to think of it: S 2440 is good on immunity and bad on wiretapping while S. 2441 is bad on immunity but good on wiretapping. It looks as though Senator Reid has created two little FISA Frankensteins."

The ACLU urges senators to vote against the Intelligence Committee bill, anything resembling the Protect America Act or any bill that grants immunity to telecommunications companies that broke the law over the past six years. Today a group of 14 senators urged Senator Reid to take up the Judiciary bill as it stands with no immunity provision. We are also asking senators to participate in the Dodd filibuster measure against any bill that lets the Bells off the hook.

"Senator Reid is forcing senators to trade the Fourth Amendment to avoid immunity or to give immunity in order to protect Fourth Amendment rights. The ACLU, on behalf its members across this country, asks that he bring the Judiciary Committee’s FISA bill to the floor -- without immunity for companies that broke the law," said Fredrickson.

[TwilightGardener]

1. Speechless.

[madfloridian]

3. Governing in secret. Ignoring their constituents.

I think this is totally unbelievable.

[Kutjara]

2. There's another word for it:

collaborating.

It's a tidy little cabal on Capitol Hill these days. Lots of back-scratching going on. The Congressional Dems are starting to resemble a Vichy party.

[tom_paine]

31. "Stating to?!?" They have been Vichy Dems for at least seven years

probably a lot more, but it was camoflauged.

[in_cog_ni_to]

44. Until this year, they could hide behind the repukes and blame everything on them. Now their

complicity is out in plain sight for everyone to see....AND THEY DON'T CARE what we know, what we want, what we say, what we think.......no more hiding in plain sight. It's now out there and they will all go home for their Christmas Holiday, let this all blow over and all will be forgotten when they return in 2008.:grr: Remember how they saved the FISA Bill right before they flew off for their July 4th vacations? This is all orchestrated....the timing of it is orchestrated because they were planning on giving immunity all along and needed to get the hell out of Dodge after they passed it. Bastards.

[Perry Logan]

47. Not true. The Democrats showed the highest Democratic unity score in 51 years.

I know you like the meme, but the facts prove you wrong:

"President Bush's success rating in the Democratic-controlled House has fallen this year to a half-century low, and he prevailed on only 14 percent of the 76 roll call votes on which he took a clear position.

"So far this year, Democrats have backed the majority position of their caucus 91 percent of the time on average on such votes. That marks the highest Democratic unity score in 51 years."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1728952&mesg_id=1728952
http://public.cq.com/docs/cqt/news110-000002576765.html

Don't let the media rhetoric fool you. The Democrats have acquitted themselves quite well--especially given their bare majority in both houses, and a relentlessly obstructionist Republican minority.

[tom_paine]

48. Not a meme, REALITY. And I know how you like cut-and-paste.

The world needs all types, including gung-ho Party-Over-Country types such as yourself. No political party could ever survive without you. In that regard, I do thank you for your dogged determination and indefatigability.

I will not argue the obvious fact that the Democrats could be playing a much harder form of ball than we are, because all one has to do is look at how the Bushies, in EXACTLY the same position as we in 1994, hijacked the nation on a Phony Impeachment that two-thirds were opposed to, almost immediately following the Demoratic Leadership's refusal to impeach Reagan in 1986, over actual felonies, because two-thirds of the country disapproved, and feared electoral backlash that would lose them Congress for a decade or more.

That happened anyway, as lack of backbone and principle will often cause the very thing that frightened people in their lack of backbone and principle in the first place.

Sadly and in retrospect, the Vichy nature of our sad-sack Democratic Leadership is not something new, and Iran-Contra stands as stark reminder of that.

But again, I expect all of this to bounce off your armored hide, so I will leave you with a phrase quite common in the Reality-Based and Country-Over-Party crowd.

Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining!

[riverdeep]

49. This statement deserves it's own post. Nice and succinct.

"...lack of backbone and principle will often cause the very thing that frightened people in their lack of backbone and principle in the first place."

[simmonsj811]

4. DAMN!!!!

NO KICK NO RECOMMEND

[bbgrunt]

5. F*** them all!! What happened to Dodd's promise to filibuster?

[Viva_La_Revolution]

13. We won't know till it comes to the floor.

I hope he can keep his word.

[porphyrian]

6. No Democrat bashing now...

Why am I not giving up again?

[Leopolds Ghost]

45. I don't know, what do you have in mind to stop it?

[ben_meyers]

7. Maybe on orders from Bonneville International Corporation

Bonneville International Corporation, managed by Deseret Management Corporation, is a broadcasting company wholly owned by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the LDS Church). Headquartered in the Triad Center Broadcast House in Salt Lake City, Utah, Bonneville's name alludes to the prehistoric Lake Bonneville which once covered much of modern-day Utah.

Bonneville owns about 30 radio stations and one NBC affiliate television station. Additionally, the Bonneville Communications division provides broadcast distribution services and award-winning PSA production services to non-profit organizations, notably the LDS Church during its semi-annual General Conferences.

[WillowTree]

8. That sounds about right.

Did you really expect anything different?

[L. Coyote]

9. Not good news, but I wonder what the strategy is?? Amend on the floor?

There may be a move to amend on the floor, and force all the member on record on immunity.
We shall see at the end of the day, but I can hear faint Reid-Abramoff smears already.

[Truth2Tell]

17. but I wonder what the strategy is??

Yep, probably a double super secret strategy to pretend to capitulate and then do the right thing later - after the powder dries out a bit. Oh the mysterious ways..... we of little faith will never understand.

[JDPriestly]

20. I think it is stupidity not strategy.

The Democrats in Congress do not seem to be able to learn that you cannot compromise with the likes of Bush. He takes, but does not give back. The Democrats should simply impeach the bum and be done with it. They are not achieving anything meaningful by sending bills like the SCHIP bill to the president only to have him throw a temper tantrum and veto the bill.

[orleans]

10. if he puts out that bill that gives telecoms immunity he's a

GODDAMN FUCKING SON OF A BITCH!

i am so TIRED of having to fight my own fucking party along with that other fucking party. jesus!

[Double T]

11. Is that with "immunity" or "impunity"?

[zabet]

12. Fuckin' invertebrate!!!!

:grr:

[riverdeep]

14. Give 'em hell, Harry!

NOT!

[JDPriestly]

15. Is there any way to e-mail Reid?

Writing letters is no use. There is as much as a two week delay in the receipt of letters by members of Congress due to security precautions.

What can we do? I have written an e-mail to Senator Feinstein. How can we contact Reid?

[havocmom]

29. Fax may work better

Email's can be filtered and ignored.

[deacon]

16. Disgraceful. We elected/put in, more bush supporters. ZERO accountability or represenation. n/t

[lovuian]

18. every name on these bills shows Congress's in league

with Bush... they are truly scary

[madfloridian]

19. TPM posted something about this about 45 minutes before the ACLU email.

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004890.php

"Senators Lobby Reid to Keep Telecom Immunity out of Surveillance Bill
By Paul Kiel - December 12, 2007, 3:56PM

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) has a choice. Both the Senate intelligence committee and Senate Judiciary Committee produced versions of the surveillance bills last month. But there's a crucial difference between the two. The intelligence committee's bill contains retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies that collaborated with the administration's warrantless wiretapping program. The judiciary committee's does not.

Today, fourteen senators (thirteen Dems and Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT)) wrote Reid to urge him to have the judiciary committee's version be the base bill for the Senate debate. "As this is such a controversial issue, we feel it would be appropriate to require the proponents of immunity to make their case on the floor," they write. Presidential candidates Sens. Joe Biden (D-DE), Hillary Clinton (D-NY), Chris Dodd (D-CT), and Barack Obama (D-IL) signed on."

What is going on here? Why would be do this. The ACLU must have just gotten the word.

[pscot]

21. Just give the bastards whatever they want

That'll teach 'em they can't fuck with us. Go Harry.

[madfloridian]

22. Here are more details....ACLU calls it a Catch 22..two FISA "frankensteins"

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/general/33188prs20071212.html

Washington, DC -- "The American Civil Liberties Union is calling on Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid to allow the Senate to vote for the Judiciary Committee’s FISA bill without letting the Bells off the hook.

"We implore Senator Reid to lead," said Caroline Fredrickson, director of the ACLU Washington Legislative Office. "Reid has set up a Catch-22 that forces senators to choose either no immunity for the telecoms or minimal Fourth Amendment protections – but not both at the same time. The ACLU is not ready to accept the two current options as the only possibilities. The American people should not have to choose between telecom immunity and warrantless wiretapping."

Fredrickson explained that Senator Reid employed a little-used Senate rule – Rule Fourteen – to bring up two different FISA bills taken from legislation passed by the Senate Intelligence and Judiciary Committees. The first bill, S. 2440, will be Titles 1 and 3 of the intelligence bill and does not include telecom immunity. The second, S. 2441, will be Titles 1 of the judiciary bill and 2 and 3 of the intelligence bill, which does include immunity. She explained that from the ACLU’s perspective, "Another way to think of it: S 2440 is good on immunity and bad on wiretapping while S. 2441 is bad on immunity but good on wiretapping. It looks as though Senator Reid has created two little FISA Frankensteins."

The ACLU urges senators to vote against the Intelligence Committee bill, anything resembling the Protect America Act or any bill that grants immunity to telecommunications companies that broke the law over the past six years. Today a group of 14 senators urged Senator Reid to take up the Judiciary bill as it stands with no immunity provision. We are also asking senators to participate in the Dodd filibuster measure against any bill that lets the Bells off the hook.

"Senator Reid is forcing senators to trade the Fourth Amendment to avoid immunity or to give immunity in order to protect Fourth Amendment rights. The ACLU, on behalf its members across this country, asks that he bring the Judiciary Committee’s FISA bill to the floor -- without immunity for companies that broke the law," said Fredrickson."

If you want more information, visit our website at
www.aclu.org/fisa

[L. Coyote]

25. Thanks. This is very useful.

[sjdnb]

23. Hope the DLC isn't counting on Progressives and Liberals

showing up at the polls ...

We do not 'fall in line' for the good of the party when the party is so unwilling to put the will of it's constituency above political expediency.

[riverdeep]

24. Don't forget that AT&T was spying on all citizens

"In an interview Tuesday, he (Mark Klein) said the NSA set up a system that vacuumed up Internet and phone-call data from ordinary Americans with the cooperation of AT&T. Contrary to the government's depiction of its surveillance program as aimed at overseas terrorists, Klein said, much of the data sent through AT&T to the NSA was purely domestic. Klein said he believes the NSA was analyzing the records for usage patterns as well as for content.

Klein is in Washington this week to share his story in the hope that it will persuade lawmakers not to grant legal immunity to telecommunications firms that helped the government in its anti-terrorism efforts." -11/7/07

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/11/07/MNIST7NS9.DTL

Yeah, that's me and you. What is this, the 147,154th atrocity during this reign of terror? But who's counting.

[bonito]

26. K&R

[JackBeck]

27. And here we are bitching about it on DU.

Where are those who are organizing a protest outside his office?

Many of us have sent emails, made phone calls and written letters, so when does our rage manifest into action?

When do y'all physically do something about it?

[sjdnb]

32. I made 143 phone calls one day ....

and, guess what ... nothing changed. Sure, often I got mailbox full msgs -- but, at least 1/3 of the time I got through and voiced my opinion (mainly my frustration at how GUTLESS the Dems had become). And, they arrogantly ignored the expectations of we, the people, who elected them.

So, I sent letters (39 cents a pop) and emails.

And, guess what? Nothing changed ...

We are not wealthy and it took a lot out of our piggy bank for me to volunteer, donate, call, and write ...

But, obviously, this 'democratic' party is not interested in fighting for people like me and my family. They'd rather not ruffle any GOP feathers.

[madfloridian]

33. Oh, wow, hubby and I have been calling emailing often and for oages.

We have called the local offices of Nelson and Martinez as well.

Of course what we say does not matter.

[sjdnb]

28. Just another reason for us Progressive/Liberal Dems

to stay home on election night ....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3834946

Perhaps, were I to expect less and/or be less committed/principled, I could tolerate this and 'fall in line'.

But, I'm a big D Democrat and we're supposed to be better than this.

[tom_paine]

30. Harry Reid is a grotesque disgrace to all the Americans who died

apparently for nothing more so that Harry could lovingly lick the boots of tyrants.

[sakabatou]

34. WTF Harry?! WTF?!

:rant:

You cave in almost every single fucking time and now, you bow again and screw with the American people and take away the rights the everyone of has, just to let people spy on us. Is this justice? Motherfuckingno. Is this right? Motherfuckingno. Should we put up with this? Motherfuckingno.

Goddamit! We voted in the Dems so that we could have a majority. And what do we get? A bunch of motherfucking cowards! No spine! No heart!

Goddamit!

AUGH!

:rant:

[The Backlash Cometh]

35. So where are all those DUers who swore to us that Harry Reid was a fighter?

Is this America anymore? What have we become when our elections get stolen and the people we do elect into office, vote for the same shit as the other party does?

[deacon]

36. If the bush administration were made up of baseball players, maybe they be held accountable

for something.

[Disturbed]

38. I sure feel a lot of sympathy for Dems.

Most do want to support their party but they keep getting pissed on time after time.

Maybe one of these days they will learn that the majority of the Dem party doesn't give a damn about
the little folk like they used to many years ago.

Is there a solution to this?

[Lasher]

37. I guess I could call my Senator, Jay Rockefeller

You know, the Intelligence Committee Chairman who came up with the version that includes retroactive immunity. Wonder how his staff is going to react when I say I don't want him to vote for the nightmare he himself created, working closely with the White House? Lotsa luck, huh? :-(

[madfloridian]

39. Glenn Greenwald says fewer surveillance protections as well as immunity

Here is his post on it. Reid is also disregarding Dodd's hold.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/12/14/reid/index.html

"The Senate is going to take up debate today on the new FISA bill -- including the provisions for telecom amnesty and presidential surveillance powers -- and Harry Reid is apparently bringing the bill to the floor (a) in precisely the way designed to help the administration's goal of ensuring there is telecom amnesty and fewer surveillance oversight protections and (b) contrary to the way his office has been assuring everyone concerned that it would be done.

I am traveling today (the last day for some time, thankfully) and will not be able to write more until much later today. FireDogLake and others will undoubtedly have updates throughout the day, more thorough explanations than I can provide now, and suggestions as to what can be done.

The summarized version is that there were two competing bills which Reid could have brought to the floor -- the Senate Intelligence Committee version engineered by Jay Rockefeller and Dick Cheney which gives the administration most of what it wants, and the Senate Judiciary Committee, which does not contain telecom amnesty and contains far more extensive oversight protections. Reid could have brought the bill to the floor using whatever process he wanted, and he has decided -- contrary to weeks of assurances -- that the SIC bill will serve as the "base" bill, meaning that improving it (by removing amnesty and increasing oversight) will require 60 votes, rendering such efforts virtually impossible. In doing so, Reid is brazenly ignoring the demands of 14 Senators -- including all of the Democratic presidential candidates -- to have the Judiciary Committee bill be the base bill.

Worse still, Reid is completely disregarding the "hold" placed by Chris Dodd on any amnesty bill -- simply refusing to honor it, even as he respectfully honors literally scores of "holds" from GOP Senators such as Tom Coburn. And while Dodd is interrupting his campaigning to fly to Washington to lead the filibuster he vowed, Reid has ensured with scheduling manuevers that the filibuster will take place only over the weekend -- when all of the members are away raising money anyway and journalists aren't paying attention -- with the intent to try to force cloture once everyone returns on Monday.

There are two key objectives for today: (1) do as much possible to pressure Reid to honor Dodd's hold and (2) do as much possible to encourage the presidential candidates and others to actively support Dodd's filibuster, not merely in a cursory way, but through authentic leadership. At least as of now, Reid is the clear villain here, doing everything possible to enable the Bush/Cheney FISA agenda on telecom amnesty and surveillance powers, and doing everything possible, yet again, to ensure that Senate Democrats stand up to nobody except their voters and their base who put them in power."

We need new Senate leadership.

[Beelzebud]

40. The Democratic party is making itself irrelevent.

I'm really getting sick of the Reid/Pelosi era of spineless politics.

[madfloridian]

41. NYT editorial: "Reid, the majority leader, seems intent on doing the president’s bidding"

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/14/opinion/14fri1.html?hp

"During the presidential campaign, candidates from both parties will warn of the risk of another terrorist attack on this country. Americans should insist that they also explain how they will repair the damage President Bush has done to America’s intelligence-gathering capabilities in the name of fighting terrorism.

Congress certainly has not done the job. For six years, it stood by mutely or actively approved as President Bush’s team cooked the books to justify war, drew the nation’s electronic spies into illegal wiretapping and turned intelligence agents and uniformed soldiers into torturers at outlaw prisons.

Now, with the opposition party in control on Capitol Hill, lawmakers have a chance to start setting right some wrongs in these areas. But there are disturbing signs that they will once again fail to do what is needed.

Senator Harry Reid, the majority leader, seems intent on doing the president’s bidding. He has indicated that instead of the Judiciary Committee’s bill, he may put on the floor a deeply flawed measure from the Senate Intelligence Committee that dangerously expands the government’s powers and gives undeserved amnesty to the telecommunications companies. The White House says amnesty is intended to ensure future cooperation but seems truly aimed at making sure the public never learns the extent of the companies’ involvement in illegal wiretapping."

[Beelzebud]

42. Give 'em Hell Harry!!!!

And by Hell, I mean "Everything our glorious President wants!"

Fuck Harry Reid.

[madfloridian]

43. Here are the 14 senators who support the bill without immunity...

"The SJC bill makes significant improvements to the FISA bill that was reported by the Senate Intelligence Committee. It enhances judicial oversight of broad new surveillance authorities, contains protections for innocent Americans, and does not provide immunity to telecom companies that allegedly cooperated with the administration’s warrantless wiretapping program.

The Senators expressing their support for the SJC FISA bill in a letter to Senate Majority Leader Reid are Senators Russ Feingold (D-WI), Chris Dodd (D-CT), Barack Obama (D-IL), Bernie Sanders (I-VT), Robert Menendez (D-NJ), Joe Biden (D-DE), Sherrod Brown (D-OH), Tom Harkin (D-IA), Ben Cardin (D-MD), Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-NY), Daniel Akaka (D-HI), Jim Webb (D-VA), Ted Kennedy (D-MA), and Barbara Boxer (D-CA)."

I hope they put up a fight.

[1932]

46. Here's who the telepone utilities PACs/employees are supporting for president:

Telephone Utilities
John McCain (R) $176,800

Hillary Clinton (D) $106,300

Barack Obama (D) $84,936

Rudolph W. Giuliani (R) $38,150

Mitt Romney (R) $25,200

Fred Thompson (R) $21,950

John Edwards (D) $18,761

Bill Richardson (D) $14,450

Sam Brownback (R) $11,200

Ron Paul (R) $10,452

Christopher J. Dodd (D) $10,450

Joseph R. Biden Jr. (D) $1,000

Mike Huckabee (R) $1,000

Mike Gravel (D) $500

[spanone]

50. of course he does. he recieves money from the telecoms

over $45,000 from AT&T http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/allcontrib.asp?CID=N00009922

he owes them....quid pro quo

people suffer under the delusion that because they are democrats they give a shit about 'the people'

[ThomWV]

51. Call your Senator to vote AGAINST it

That will leave the second bill as the only alternative available.