'I just don't want to be a burden,' shooter writes

[The Straight Story]

CNN) -- The teenager who opened fire inside an Omaha, Nebraska, mall Wednesday wrote that he knew "everyone will remember me as some sort of monster," according to his handwritten suicide note released Friday.

"I've been a piece of my entire life it seems this is my only option," Robert Hawkins wrote.

"Please understand that I just don't want to be a burden on the ones that I care for my entire life," he went on to say. "I just want to take a few pieces of with me."

The suicide note had three sections: One addressed to his friends, another to his family, and a third labeled as a will, complete with his Social Security number. See the note »

"Just think... I'm gonna be famous," he writes his friends.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/07/mall.shooter/index.html

[MADem]

1. What an asshole. Why didn't he just kill himself? Why ruin countless other families' lives? nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. Because he was sick

[MADem]

16. A sick ASSHOLE. May he be remembered that way, if at all. NT

[Dorian Gray]

41. Lots of sick people don't kill others....

He had a sickness in his soul.

A very ugly sickness.

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. And many sick people do kill others

I say let's prevent those deaths by providing care for sick people.

[Dorian Gray]

59. I would say that many

of those who kill people are mentally ill, but most mentally ill people do not kill people. To characterize the mentally ill as prone to murder is horribly offensive.

Just my opinion.

And yes, I have friends and family who have/are still battling with schitzophrenia, Manic-Depressive Disorder, addiction problems, and various other illnesses. None of them have ever been remotely violent, nor have they desired the publicity of mass murder. And some of them are very ill.

[proud2BlibKansan]

60. I have family members with mental illnesses too

And they aren't violent either. But it does scare me that if my family member did become violent, my choices and opportunities to help her are very limited. The system is broken.

You cannot discount the fact that this kid in Omaha and the kid in Virginia were seriously mentally ill and lacked treatment. Especially the kid in Omaha. Just imagine if he had treatment. I do believe that saving even ONE is worth it.

[Dorian Gray]

61. Yes

I agree that we need to have treatment available to those who need it. But we can not impose it on those who wish not to seek it, either. It's a catch-22, unfortunately.

There are way too many damaged people out there, though. And it is not our place to be too judgemental or hypercritical of them. I think that there is a place for compassion with this boy. But anger is also a normal human emotion, and I understand why people feel that, as well.

[MichiganVote]

2. Nah..,sorry buddy...a killer is a killer is a killer.

[spanone]

3. he's a famous shit. what a shame he had to take others with him. so sad.

[LoZoccolo]

4. "P.S. I didn't eat that ____ sandwich or the toielet thing either!"

Interesting that there's no comment in the story on this odd close.

[Contrary1]

8. I wonder if he was alluding to the reason

for his being fired by McDonald's.

[LoZoccolo]

12. You know, I did not think of that. n/t

[Breeze54]

5. Foster homes fuck with people's minds.

It's a real shame that he didn't seek help first or just take himself out.

Why he took others with him to seek fame? Actions of a sick mind.

It's such a sad thing for those families and victims.

[provis99]

6. Well he got one thing right

He was a monster. This freak had friends?

[malaise]

27. Sure he was a monster

but so were the people who dumped him into foster homes.

If MSM didn't glorify mass murderers, he might just have killed himself and disappeared.

[JI7]

9. i guess he didn't think about the burden he would cause to his family

after killing a bunch of people. knowing their son, brother etc was responsible for the murder of so many. and of course the burden on the family and friends of those he murdered.

[JeffR]

10. There's no excuse sufficient to justify what he did

but anyone who thinks about this for 5 minutes (all the time I've devoted to it, and will devote) should realize this kid was sick. Dangerously sick, obviously. The hang-'em-high crowd needs to get a grip on this: mental disorders of varying degrees are common. Access to firearms is not difficult; in fact, it's easy in most states. Societal help for readily diagnosed mental illnesses is in increasingly short supply (since the government, both Republicans and Democrats, sadly, favor spending priorities that ensure murder overseas, as in Iraq).

The wonder of it, to me, is that incidents like this don't happen much more often. But just wait. If we don't get a grip on reforming our largely putative "civilization" completely, they will, guaranteed.

[The Straight Story]

11. When it is easier to get a gun than mental health care, bad things are not far behind

And as I have said elsewhere, even if you pass a mental screening now, 2 years later you may be worse off mentally.

[JeffR]

13. Precisely

Until priorities change, we can expect more of these gaudy, horrible stories the MSM loves to fixate on endlessly. And the priorities won't change until politicians, under pressure from voters, make them change. Until then: here we stand, we cannot do otherwise (to paraphrase Luther).

[October]

67. Problem is...

Most people who ARE mentally ill deny it, or just don't recognize it. They won't even seek help. The system is indeed screwed up, but it's not easy to get a sick person to seek psychological help either.

[MADem]

74. He had access to mental health care, though. He refused it. Actively.

The state spent a quarter million bucks on this guy's treatment. He was noncompliant and refused care three months after he turned eighteen, and his father cheered him on.

So that argument is bullshit. He CHOSE to not avail himself of care.

[Horse with no Name]

17. Great post.

:thumbsup:

[mitchum]

14. Self-pitying homicidal motherfucker has now created burdens for many

he was a narcissistic piece of shit...and a liar

[MADem]

15. Maybe if we started calling them ASSHOLES more publicly after they do this shit, there would be

less motivation to be "famous." I mean, really--who would want to be remembered as the "famously childish jerkwad of an ASSHOLE" who shot up the mall?

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. And maybe if we treated our mentally ill, they wouldn't go into malls and kill people

Just a thought . . .

[mitchum]

28. Do cancer treatments always work?

Does substance abuse rehab always work?

Unfortunately, despite ALL efforts, we will always have in our midst, those who think that their own pain and suffering can be alleviated by the infliction of pain and suffering upon others.

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. And doing nothing at all is working great, isn't it?

[mitchum]

56. I'm not discounting the very real need for treatment...

but it is not always going to work

As a very wise man once said, "What is the nature of a thing?"

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. Of course nothing is 100%

but continuing what we are doing now is much worse, IMO.

[MADem]

63. Nothing at ALL? The state spent a quarter MILLION on this kid.

That state bent over BACKWARDS to help this kid, compared to many jurisdictions. But when people are NOT amenable to treatment, and they are adults, what WOULD you suggest the state do????

LINCOLN — Nebraska spent more than $265,000 on services to help Robert Hawkins with psychiatric problems and addictions in his four years as a state ward.

Hawkins received care at several residential treatment centers, a group home and an agency-based foster home, children and family services director Todd Landry said Thursday.

"I believe all appropriate services were provided when needed and for as long as needed," he said. "Based on our review, this tragedy was not a failure of the system to provide appropriate quality services for a youth who needed it.".........The court order terminated custody Aug. 21, 2006, three months after his 18th birthday, "as an unsuccessful completion of the conditions and the child is non-amenable to further services of the court."

Landry said that phrase could mean a variety of things, from Hawkins repeatedly testing positive for drugs and alcohol to refusing to complete 50 hours of court-ordered community service.

The decision was based on an agreement between HHS, the treatment provider, the therapist, the court and Hawkins' father, Landry said.



http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10203459

[MADem]

69. See post 64. This kid was treated to the tune of over a quarter MILLION dollars.

When he hit eighteen, and became an adult, he REFUSED treatment and his FATHER went along with it.

The good people of his state bent over BACKWARDS and shelled out big money to help this kid. To say that he went into a mall and killed people because he wasn't "treated" is flat out bullshit.

He was non-compliant, and eventually refused treatment.

Who's fault is THAT, pray tell? What's the solution? Bring back mental hospitals on a large scale? Do mandated commitments?

[INDIA]

71. It's the government's fault for not treating his mental illness....wait...

you mean he WAS treated? Whoops! Uh...then guns, it's the gun's fault. And the NRA. They're to blame.

*whew* (didn't think I could find a scapegoat there for a minute)

[MADem]

70. Duplicate. nt

[Sugar Smack]

19. I've read a lot of True Crime, and "fame" seems to be the most mentioned

motivation in young killers.

[LisaL]

26. It's the same story all over again.

Someone who doesn't fit in, someone who is depressed and suicidal, someone who wants to go out in flames and take a lot of people with him.

[mitchum]

30. That's because they are narcissists (n/t)

[Le Taz Hot]

20. I'm disgusted by the comments

on this thread. He was MENTALLY ILL! What don't you people get about that? People who are mentally ill sometimes engage in unacceptable behavior and, taken to the extreme, can take lives. So, he was vilified in life and now you're vilifying him in death. I"m sure this makes you feel all better about yourselves. You know, I hope none of you ever have to deal with mental illness 'cause Karma can be a bitch.

[annabanana]

23. It is disheartening isn't it. . . . . n/t

[Le Taz Hot]

24. There are days when this place

is no better than Free Republic.

[mitchum]

32. Now, THAT'S appallingly simplistic

you really do have to try harder than that

[mitchum]

25. He has richly EARNED the vilification

I have compassion for him up until the moment he so generously decided to share the private hell of his mental illness with the public and STARTED MURDERING PEOPLE.

Frankly, I think that ALL murderers, rapists, sadists, etc... are mentally ill. However, they do not get a pass. And that is as it should be.

[Le Taz Hot]

29. OK, one more time.

People who are mentally ill do not think straight. They don't make decisions based on rational thought. They're incapable. It's an ILLNESS. No one is giving him a pass and no one is excusing the horrible act he committed. That type of thinking is appallingly simplistic and full of revenge. But I'd think on our so-called "progressive" site, we could show compassion and raise an awareness of mental illness that is not being addressed in this country. SOMETHING good needs to come out of this. Calling mental illness sufferers names accomplishes NOTHING.

[mitchum]

31. Frankly, your "they're incapable...." is appalling simplistic and full of naivite

Calling this particular mental illness sufferer a "narcissistic multiple murdererer" accomplishes something. It acknowledges reality. And,to me, that seems to be rather...progressive.

[Dorian Gray]

43. That sounds like an excuse, though....

He had some level of control. He didn't deserve to be foisted off throughout his life, but his victims didn't deserve to be killed because he was mentally ill. The fact that I feel more compassion for the family of his victims than for him might make others uncomfortable, but I can't help the way I feel. The families of his victims didn't do anything to deserve their loss. He didn't know them. He wanted infamy, and he got it. It comes with a degree of negative judgement... because he is a killer.

[NorthernSpy]

50. that's an argument for automatic institutionalization of depressed people...

... whether you realize it or not.


Thing is, most mentally ill people are not insane. They do retain their basic grasp of reality and control over their actions, and that's why most of them are no threat to others. It would be wrong to take them away from their families and lock them all up merely for having some problems.

But that's exactly the sort of thing we'd do, if we all viewed mental illness in the terms you propose.

[alarimer]

65. Then they need to be hospitalized

Against their will, if necessary. If the state/county whatever deemed him a danger to others, he should have been hospitalized.

So many times we hear this. Somebody refuses treatment and then goes and shoots up a school or mall. I'm sorry but when they refuse to treat their condition, they need to be forcibly detained. I mean, they locked up a guy with TB until he was treated sufficiently that he wasn't a danger to others. If we are allowed to do that with communicable diseases, we should be allowed to do that with mental illnesses.

[MADem]

72. Should the state have committed him when he turned eighteen, then?

They spent a quarter million bucks treating him. He turned eighteen, was non-compliant and refused further treatment.

Is it time to start committing people who "don't think straight?" Just so that innocents aren't gunned down?

I don't give this guy a pass. He was a mentally ill ASSHOLE killer. His mental illness doesn't diminish the fact that he was an asshole killer, either--and a little chickenshit, too. He had access to help --at no cost, too -- and he refused it. And he gets no compassion from me--I'll save that for the dead.

What IS the answer? I don't have one. But "raising awareness" isn't gonna make those families of the dead any happier this Christmas...this guy didn't fall through any cracks. He turned his back.

At least calling the bastard a name or two is a way to vent. "Showing compassion" for a guy who received a very high level of care over a long period of time, who was noncompliant, and was aided and abetted in his eschewing of state-funded care by his idiot of a father, is a waste of compassion. IMO.

[PassingFair]

33. The comments are coming from empathy-impaired posters.

They don't surprise me at all.

Their regular postings are just as far off the mark.

Happy Holidays.

[NorthernSpy]

48. I don't think I'm empathy-impaired...

I'm just pointing out that a person can be both mentally ill and wicked at the same time.

[alarimer]

66. He killed other people; I have no empathy for him.

I would have a lot more sympathy if he only killed himself. But, no, the asshole has to go and murder random people in a sick quest for fame. Fuck him. He also apparently refused to treat his illness.

[MADem]

73. I have empathy--for the families of those innocents who were murdered. NT

[Snotcicles]

35. Assuming someone is trying to justify something when they are

merely trying to understand it, happens often here.

[OzarkDem]

36. He was also a kid who lived a horrible life

As much as it would make me feel better to vilify him, he was a sad, abused child.

It was doubly tragic for the innocent victims who lost their lives and their families, but I still feel pity for the murderer.

[iamthebandfanman]

42. and how many people are just like him

but dont kill people?

theres no justification for killing people.

[OzarkDem]

55. Don't put words in my mouth

I didn't say it justified killing people. I said its a tragic story all the way around. And yes, kids like this end up killing and committing many crimes.

Wouldn't it be great if we could solve the problem through increased access to education, family planning and mental health services instead of simply demonizing tormented and unwanted kids?

[NorthernSpy]

46. IF he had died raving that his victims were evil pod people, and he had no choice...

... and that he had to kill them before they started cannibalizing us -- then yeah, you'd have a point.


But this guy does not seem to have been psychotic. More like, perpetually unhappy and vicious. That's different.


It's possible to be both mentally ill and sane enough to form criminal intent.

[cuke]

51. You don't know what you're talking about

1) You shouldn't expect rational reasons from the mentally ill. Your judgement as to which reasons would make the perp "not evil" assume that there are rational reasons for killing innocent people

2) Psychosis is not the only mental illness that interferes with an individual's ability to control their behavior. Obsessive/Compulsives are defined by their inability to control their behavior and they are not psychotic. In fact, every mental disorder involves an impairment in an individuals ability to control their behavior

3) "Criminal intent" is nothing more than having the ability to realize that society views their behavior as "wrong". It is a legalism that has little to do with the realities of mental illness

[MADem]

64. The state spent over a quarter MILLION treating him, too. And then, he REFUSED treatment.

He's an ASSHOLE. A dead asshole.

Repeated from the link upthread:

The court order terminated custody Aug. 21, 2006, three months after his 18th birthday, "as an unsuccessful completion of the conditions and the child is non-amenable to further services of the court."

Landry said that phrase could mean a variety of things, from Hawkins repeatedly testing positive for drugs and alcohol to refusing to complete 50 hours of court-ordered community service.

The decision was based on an agreement between HHS, the treatment provider, the therapist, the court and Hawkins' father, Landry said.

[iamthebandfanman]

21. ironic isnt it

the whole 'dont want to burden people'

apparently killing people wasnt burdening anyone...
now his family will always be the parents of that crazy kid who killed people... yeah, thats not a burden at all.

sorry, but theres no excuse for what he did...'sick' or not.
ive been living with bi-polar since i was 15(diagnosed) and ive never had an impulse to kill someone. his disorder had nothing to do with his want to inflict death. he came up with that on his own.
he 'wanted to be remembered'.

sorry, but depression is not an excuse to do whatever you want to whoever you want.

[WinkyDink]

22. Depression means NOT THINKING STRAIGHT.

[Le Taz Hot]

34. Give it up

It's much funner to feel morally superior.

[mitchum]

38. Yes, it is...isn't it?

[iamthebandfanman]

39. it was easy for him to

the shooter that is.

[mitchum]

40. Indeed (n/t)

[cuke]

52. I'll never understand why some think the mentally ill will have rational reasons

for why they do what they do.

My mother, who has Alzheimer's, could easily come to as bizarre a comclusion as this young man. It wouldn't be because she is evil. It would be because her thinking is disordered in a way that makes her incapable of thinking rationally

[iamthebandfanman]

37. well

dont you think that depends on the person ?

[Breeze54]

44. No, not the person but the degree of the depression

http://out-of-darkness.com/Blog/sometimes-physical-problems-can-cause-depression

Major Depression

An individual with major depression, or major depressive disorder, feels a profound and constant
sense of hopelessness and despair. Major depression is marked by a combination of symptoms that
interfere with the person’s ability to work, study, sleep, eat, and enjoy once pleasurable activities.
Major depression may occur only once but more commonly occurs several times in a lifetime.

What Are the Symptoms of Major Depression?

Symptoms of depression include:
• Sadness
• Irritability
• Loss of interest in activities once enjoyed
• Withdrawal from social activities
• Inability to concentrate

Psychotic Depression

Roughly 25% of people who are admitted to the hospital for depression suffer from what is called psychotic depression.
In addition to the symptoms of depression, psychotic depression includes some features of psychosis, such as
hallucinations (seeing or hearing things that aren’t really there) or delusions (irrational thoughts and fears).

How Is Psychotic Depression Different Than Other Mental Disorders?

While people with other mental disorders, like schizophrenia, also experience these symptoms, those
with psychotic depression are usually aware that these thoughts aren’t true. They may be ashamed or
embarrassed and try to hide them, which can make diagnosing this condition difficult.

What Are the Symptoms of Psychotic Depression?

• Anxiety (fear and nervousness)
• Agitation
• Paranoia
• Insomnia (difficulty falling and staying asleep)
• Physical immobility
• Intellectual impairment
• Psychosis

Dysthymia

Dysthymia, sometimes referred to as chronic depression, is a less severe form of depression but the
depression symptoms linger for a long period of time, perhaps years. Those who suffer from dysthymia
are usually able to function normally, but seem consistently unhappy.
It is common for a person with dysthymia to also experience major depression at the same time -
swinging into a major depressive episode and then back to a more mild state of dysthymia.
This is called double depression.

Symptoms of dysthymia include:

• Difficulty sleeping
• Loss of interest or the ability to enjoy oneself
• Excessive feelings of guilt or worthlessness
• Loss of energy or fatigue
• Difficulty concentrating, thinking or making decisions
• Changes in appetite
• Thoughts of death or suicide

Seasonal Affective Disorder

Seasonal depression, called seasonal affective disorder (SAD), is a depression that occurs each year
at the same time, usually starting in fall or winter and ending in spring or early summer. It is more
than just “the winter blues” or “cabin fever.” A rare form of SAD known as “summer depression,” begins
in late spring or early summer and ends in fall.

What Are the Symptoms of Seasonal Affective Disorder?

People who suffer from SAD have many of the common signs of depression: Sadness, irritability, loss
of interest in their usual activities, withdrawal from social activities, and inability to concentrate.
But symptoms of winter SAD may differ from symptoms of summer SAD.

Symptoms of winter SAD may include the seasonal occurrence of:
• Fatigue
• Increased need for sleep
• Decreased levels of energy
• Weight gain
• Increase in appetite
• Difficulty concentrating
• Increased desire to be alone

Symptoms of summer SAD include the seasonal occurrence of:
• Weight loss
• Trouble sleeping
• Decreased appetite

What Causes Depression?

There is not just one cause of depression. It is a complex disease that can occur as a result of a
multitude of different factors, including biology, emotional and environmental influences. For some,
depression occurs due to a loss of a loved one, a change in one’s life, or after being diagnosed with
a serious medical disease. For others, depression just happened, possibly due to a family history of
the disorder.

[iamthebandfanman]

45. thanks for attempting to educate me

but as i said before, i have bi-polar. so i know what depression is.
dont think im not angry at the world?
dont think im angry at society for how it is ?
dont think ive ever been suicidal ?
dont think i know what its like to be compulsive ?

im sorry, it comes down to what type of person are you.
are you capable of taking someone elses life ?
he was. simple as that.

ive wanted to end my life several times, but id never dream of hurting someone else because of my distress.

sorry, but all of you are doing the wrong thing by giving pity and isolating him as mentally ill.
whats the number 1 rule of treating depression? YOU ARE NOT ALONE.
if this, as you say, was because and soley because of his depression... why arent millions of the diagnosed depressed not out on a killing spree?
depression alone does not skew the line of morally wrong and right, regardless of what you may think.

[Breeze54]

47. Depression IS a mental illness, as is bi-polar disorder

I didn't say that he got a pass. I'm just saying he was mentally ill.

Some mentally ill people are more mentally ill than others.

You apparently have it under control but he apparently didn't, considering what happened.

I've personnaly known two people diagnosed as bi-polar.

One was a calm person although confused at times but always a really nice person.

The other was a destructive, raving, maniacal, lunatic that I wouldn't leave my dog with, let alone my child.

[iamthebandfanman]

49. well you may be right but

he had a pre disposition of being able to take other peoples lifes.
you could argue anyone who wants to take someone elses life (or does take someones life) is mentally ill tho i suppose...
but thats a whole other set of mental illness, not depression.

to blame it all on depression is just obsurd.


p.s.
i dont see bi-polar or depression as an 'illness' but rather deep enlightment to 'reality' and your surroundings. how you choice to cope or deal with that... well ...that depends on the person.

[Breeze54]

54. Of course he had many other factors affecting him besides depression.

He was also in the foster care system for a long period of time.

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:NaL3VSP2C7IJ:www.casey.org/NR/rdonlyres/CEFBB1B6-7ED1-440D-925A-E5BAF602294D/303/casey_natl_alumni_study_mental_health.pdf+effects+of+foster+care+on+adolescents&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox-a">Assessing the Effects of Foster Care:

Few studies have focused on how youth formerly in foster care (“alumni”) fare after leaving care,
especially in terms of mental health. Results of both the Casey National Alumni Study (early findings
reported in 2003) 1 and the Northwest Alumni Study (released in April 2005) 2 reveal that foster care
alumni are experiencing mental health illnesses at rates higher than those of the general population

snip-->

The rate of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) among alumni was nearly five times that of the general
population and, at 21.5%, exceeded the rates for American war veterans (Vietnam—15%; Afghanistan— 6%;
and Iraq—12-13%). 5 The PTSD recovery rate for alumni was 28.2%, while the rate for the general population was 47.0%.
Recovery occurred when a lifetime diagnosis of a mental health symptom was not present in the past 12 months.

[Tejas]

62. think outside the library

iamthebandfanman brings first-hand knowledge to the table, info straight from the horse's mouth.

a mild WTF goes here ----> ____ ?

[Breeze54]

68. Being a diabetic doesn't make a diabetic

know all that entails the disease or the research and studies and breakthroughs.
They may have a leg up because they have a vested interest to know as many facts
as they can find out about diabetes but that doesn't make them doctor's or experts.

I pass the WTF plate back to ya!

[Tejas]

75. maybe it was a lack of respect for his opinion

that I accused you of. Let's agree to say I was mistaken in thinking your were belittling the posters insight.

Sound about right?

[Breeze54]

76. Sounds good to me.

Thanks for that. It's much appreciated. ;)

:hug:

[Cabcere]

77. Depression means many things.

And yeah, sometimes it can and does mean not thinking straight, but that doesn't mean that all depressed people are completely incapable of rational thought all the time. Peace.