I've dutifully defended my representatives and argued against impeachment.

[Mike03]

I've tried to trust them, and I've tried to give them the benefit of the doubt.

But lately my opinion is changing. I can't stand this anymore.

It's a lie. Something has to be done.

America has become a lost nation. Truly, we have hit rock bottom. As far as I can tell, we have virtually nothing left to lose. Every week there is a new obscenity or bald-faced crime committed by this administration. It's not right or responsible for me or us to let this go unpunished, even if doing so might help us in the election.

What will history say of us if we sit still for these indignities against the Constitution and against our humanity? I can't stand my own silence any longer. Or my gullibility.

It's better to attempt to exact justice and punish these war criminals--and let the chips fall where they may--than to sit still for another minute.

It is horrendous what has transpired these past seven years. When I'm completely objective about it, I can honestly say that this catastrophic period has changed my life forever. I feel like Martin Sheen in APOCALYPSE NOW--my innocence has been killed. There's no way I can forgive myself or my nation for what has happened under Bush. It's a DISASTER for our country, one from which we may never be able to recover.

A handful of psychopaths are running our country into the ground, squandering trillions upon trillions of our precious treasure that could better be spent on education, poverty, health care and humane pursuits.

I can't stand it anymore.

How can we ever hope to make ammends?

Impeachment is the right thing to do. It's the honorable and moral thing to do. Regardless of whether or not it succeeds or fails, we must try, in order to make our mark on history that we were not lunatics and to attempt to make things right.

Otherwise, what is the point of every struggle that has come before our generations? Our fathers, grandfathers, who died in the wars, do not deserve to have died in vain.

We have a disaster on our hands, and too many of us have been pretending this is something we can solve and reverse with an election. More than this needs to be done. We need to punish the criminals to reclaim our dignity.

At any cost.

[MissWaverly]

1. I agree

The cover up of misdeeds expands with time. The world will demand accountability; what will we say to them when that time comes. That we put political expediency above justice and accountability? That we continued to hold foreign nationals w/o trial based on no evidence. That we continued to occupy a country that we invaded based on false intelligence. That we continued to ship arms to Iraq w/o any oversight and that we continued to allow private contractors that we paid to occupy Iraq with no oversight. Why, because we considered our own political campaigns more important than any of these things; would we respect any nation that followed that path?

[gateley]

2. I'm in agreement with you, but a recent interview with Conyers brings up

interesting points. It's not all black and white. I may not LIKE what Conyers is saying (because I'm STRONGLY for impeachment), but he may be absolutely right about the chances of it succeeding. If it's not successful, that could be disastrous. Although it seems to US it would be an open and shut case, we're not taking in all the machinations and POLITICS involved.

Sigh.

Here's a link:

http://www.metrotimes.com/editorial/story.asp?id=12082

[MissWaverly]

8. remember what happened with Mark Foley

at first, they tried their old hype, that this is just Democratic muck but when more and more info came out there was a stampede,
this is worse than Plame, there is broad evidence of deliberate suppresion of facts everywhere, take the Iran example, they
just have to start the impeachment hearings and the truth would push it. We are sending tons of weapons to Iraq and they were
given out to who???

[gateley]

9. I hope that happens in this instance - that they become confident that it would

be successful and pursue it. I'm hoping this NIE will make them throw up their hands and say 'okay, that's it!'.

It's not us who need to be convinced -- it's the House.

[MissWaverly]

11. well, I think the weapons situation in Iraq would be the thing

to pursue, you just can't hand out weapons willy nilly, imagine using our tax dollars in Nam to equip the Viet Cong. This
administration is like a real life sequel to National Lampoon.

[Mike03]

17. Gately, you have no idea how much I appreciate your posts

Biden is my man.

But how on earth is he going to win?

IMO, more than anyone else, he deserves to be the president of the United States.

This is probably part of the reason I am not very hopeful about anything anymore, or the future.

[Mike03]

14. Thank you

I know it's not a very predictable course, to pursue impeachment.

I trust Conyers and, as you probably know by now, Biden.

My post is sort of beyond politics. I am just so disgusted, mostly with myself, but just our nation. We have let so many bad things go on, and nothing has been done to set them right. It just feels so bad to me right now.

I love my country. But other than Gore and our brave politicans like Biden, etc.., and people like Conyers, we have so little to show for what courage we do have.

Eh, maybe that's a bit of ventilation, but I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say.

BTW, thank you for your posts about Biden.

[Mike03]

15. Eh, I wrote a long response to you, but something

happened and it didn't get posted.

You always have great comments, facts and links.

I respect you and your posts more than you probably know, but at some point don't we have an obligation to foreget about politics and just do the right thing, no matter what?

Why aren't we more like France, where the government fears the people?

Just curious.

[gateley]

3. SELF DELETE - DUPE

[glowing]

4. We all have our moments of clarity... thank you for waking up... Keep

going. One more voice, one more letter, one more body at a protest. Thank you for you Patriotism, Citizen.

[Mike03]

13. I know, I feel very ridiculous

So many others here were saying the right thing all along.

I can honestly say that it was this website that changed my mind.

It just took too long.

[glowing]

28. Its never too late.. everyday there's one more voice added.. Now,

you will be adding to the Impeachment movement... When someone says something in the grocery store about how they don't like something.. You will say "Impeach them"... and you've just put a notion in the minds of the bagger, the cashier, the couple behind you, and perhaps a couple of other patrons standing beside you. I say these things all the time around people complaining about gas, food, housing, jobs, the war.. I say Impeach.. its the only way to get the answers for all the lies they've told.

Good luck.. Thanks

[Mike03]

5. So, I want to do something, but I have no clue what to do anymore.

Write Conyers? He knows what to do.

Is it Pelosi? Is it Reid?

And if it is one of the above, why? What is standing in the way of at least trying to shut these evil sons of bitches down??

[glowing]

29. Write your House Rep. all the time... I'm now talking quite often with

the secretary lady.. The Senators don't even pay attention.. But my House Rep does respond to me.. If I disagree, I call back or fly and e-mail off... I always sign my name and Citizen underneath.. Tonight, I signed Citizen Still (I'm seriously considering Canada these days).

Essentially I wrote, He lied and you must do something about this.. Here's your Blue Dress.. no more hiding around anything.. He lied and jeapordized our safety with the drum beat to war with Iran..

[JFN1]

6. Oh, I think we have a little way to go

before we hit "rock bottom."

Not far, mind you...

Great post! :)

[Mike03]

23. Hopefully you are right.

Surely, you are. I just have reached my personal limit this week.

Things seem very dire to me, but you are right that we are not entirely lost.

[Breeze54]

7. IMPEACH !!!!!!!

Just some pics to get you started! :P

Forgot to add: :kick: & Recommended ;)

I got one of these for $5.00!!

So can you! I wear mine all the time now! http://www.usalone.com/impeach_cheney_cap.php

[rockybelt]

10. I wore my Impeach Cheney cap

to the grocery store today and I could hardly get out of there. I stopped by the milk cooler and a lady said "Nice hat" and we started to talk. Before I knew it there were about ten people standing around talking about these criminals and that they must be impeached. I was duly impressed with the knowledge that some of these people had. I was a little leary of starting the conversations but to a person they were all on the same page. IMPEACH!

I did tout Du and I hope many of them will sign on and bring others with them.

The rage is building and sooner or later that rage will not be able to be contained. People are starting to wake up and smell the stench.

[Mike03]

12. Or, if they cannot or will not impeach, STOP the war

Cut funding, refuse to bring legislation to vote, anything to stop this war, regardless of the consequences.

History will look favorably upon them. They will win in the end.

Do anything that is necessary and legal. Just do it, no matter what. Forget about votes. Just stop the god damned war.

[Mike03]

16. Deleted: repetitive

[Prophet 451]

18. America no longer exists

In truth, I'm not sure it ever existed in the sense of being a physical place. Really, it was more like a shared dream than a nation. Still, the USA is dead by any measure that counts.

Constitution: Thanks to Chimpy, shredded. The "Unitary Executive" theory (which is the most dangerous thing I've ever fucking heard) means he can just ignore the Constitution.
Bill of Rights: Nullified in the majority. You're still free to own a gun and refuse to board an English soldier but that's about it.
Courts: Packed with die-hard W loyalists chosen specifically for their canine fidelity.
Congress: More submissive that an S&M fetishist with low self-esteem.

In truth, I think it's probably gone too far to be stopped now. Barring impeachment, civil war or some kind of national catastrophe, this bunch will never answer for their crimes. They'll leave office one way or another, you'll be told that the nation needs to heal and move on and the criminals will lay low. And then history will start being rewritten (as it is with Reagan) and slowly, the witnesses will get old and die off, the evidence will disappear and slowly, The Long Night will become something only talked about by pundits and history buffs. To your children, the Imperial Presidency will seem quite normal because the powers Bucheney siezed will never have been returned or even tested. It's incredibly difficult to reverse history and slowly, over a generation or so, our situation now will come to be viewed as normal, routine.

You could still make it back, of course. It's still just about possible but not for long and unless impeachment was very specific in it's charges, it wouldn't remove the extra-constitutional powers from the presidency anyway. To be honest, it's going to be a long, hard and bloody struggle to take the country back. Simply voting in Democrats won't do it, not alone, it's gone too far for that. You'd need some kind of mass awakening of the public and I doubt the resolve and attention span of the public.

I really, really hope you guys can prove me wrong. Good luck and Godspeed.

[vanboggie]

20. Oh geez

I wish I didn't agree with you, but I think you're right on all counts. I've had the same sickening feeling since the 2000 coup and it's only worsened with time.

[Mike03]

19. In my clumsy way, what I'm trying to ask is

What can I do, or what do I do now that my opinion has changed about the situation we face?

Is it just more writing of emails?

Who needs to be contacted, and how do they need to be approached?

Is it Pelosi?

Is it Harry Reid?

All I know is that things need to change immediately.

There's no time to waste anymore.

Our nation is bankrupt. We need to apologize to the world, make ammends, and care for our own citizens.

Good God, how did we let it get like this?

[Prophet 451]

24. "Good God, how did we let it get like this?"

Complacency, fear, arrogance; the usual reasons.

Americans are trained from birth to believe that the USA is unique, special, that the problems that afflicted other nations do not apply to you. You didn't have to worry about a dictatorship because this was America, it couldn't happen here. If a few academics warned that it could, well, academics could be ignored (the US has had a large streak of anti-intellectualism ever since the Populists). You assumed that democracy was natural, the inevitible end result of societal evolution and you forgot or never learned that democracy has always been unnatural, it has always been one step away from collapse. You forgot about Wat Tyler and the Peasent's Revolt and Tom Joad. You forgot that democracy has to be fought for.

You nearly deified your Founders and through that, a little of that magic transmitted itself to every president. You forgot that the Founders were great men but men of their time nonetheless and they recognised that even if those who came after them didn't. It is said that those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it but America, with that virulent streak of anti-intellectualism, has always been resistent to learning. You let your news media become little more than a gossip column and your televised media race to the lowest common deniminator. You let your political system legalise bribery through "campaign contributions" and you allowed your country to adopt "free markets uber alles" as a national anthem.

The problem with being a historian, even an amateur one, is that you're only capable of analysing events once they're past. I can tell you where things went wrong but I'm at a loss to tell you how to fix it. In another country, I'd tell you to write, call, email and fax everyone you could get the contact details before but your elected representatives have made it abundantly clear that they will not listen.

[Mike03]

25. Yes, beautiful analysis

The only strange thing to me, is that I read about this in the early nineties when I was just out of college, and I've expected this all along.

But for some reason, I didn't expect what has happened to us with Bush.

Clinton gave me such hope and faith.

I can't even express how badly these past seven years have affected me personally. Probably I have tried to put myself in denial.

[Prophet 451]

27. Don't blame yourself, it's not unusual

I don't think any of us wanted to believe it could get so bad so quickly. It's a little like that old story about the frog and the boiling water: If Americans (I'm English although we're only about ten years behind you) had woken up one morning to find tanks in the street, there would have been a revolt but because dictatorship* happened gradually, little by little and mostly legally, the people never noticed.

The satirist Terry Pratchett once wrote what I consider to be the greatest truth about politics ever written: "People shout that they want truth and justice for all. What they really want is an assurance that life will go on, much as it did before and tomorrow will be very much like today". Humans are amazingly adaptable. Given a little time, we'll quickly learn to tolerate even the worst excesses. A little longer and we'll consider it normal, we may even learn to like it. That's why politicians always do their worst between election years, because they know that by the time polling day rolls around, most will have gotten used to the new situation, especially if their physical needs are met, especially if they're distracted by some passionate but meaningless excercise. The old "bread and circuses". Not exactly groundbreaking tactics but tried and effective ones.


* - I don't use the word "dictatorship" lightly. I'm a lover of history and took my minor in PoliSci. I know exactly what the word means and what the requirements for it are. Nevertheless, I use the word in it's full technical meaning. As the details of Bush's signing statements come out, it becomes readily apparent that Bush has effectively declared himself above the law. When the leader of a nation is not accountable to the law of the land, that nation is either an absolute monarchy or a dictatorship and since Bush's post is not hereditary, that leaves only one option.

[Hydra]

34. It's all about the view through the cracked glass

I might have been unaware of how bad things were going to get, but around Summer 2000, I remember reading a story about a woman and her children having their house firebombed by fundies...and later in the story it was revealed that they were pagans.

No investigation, no arrests...even though the house was set on fire with people in it.

I had my moment of clarity at that point- Bush and his people didn't care what happened to anyone who was not "His people," and though the fundies thought they were "his people," they were wrong.

9/11 came and I was horrified, but only at the scale, and at the fact that it had obviously been preventable. The fact that it had happened was predicable. We needed to go to WAR!

Since then, knowing that no safety or consideration would be forthcoming from the admin made it easy to understand the "incompetence" that occurred over and over again...and finding that Congress was willingly participating was easy to understand when you saw that we were "not their people" either.

[defendandprotect]

32. Mostly, I think we have to try to wake up others --- including our own familes . . . unfortunately!!

and those close around us ---
that's some of the hardest part!!

[defendandprotect]

31. Now . .. you're just with the rest of us trying to figure this all out ---

We all have a point of awakening --- it too me to '88 --- !!!

....but I think we certainly all have a responsibility to try to wake up others ---



The hardest thing to do is to talk with young people about Global Warming ---
worse than fascism!!!

[femrap]

21. Glad to hear that another American

if for IMPEACHMENT NOW!

My Holiday Cards say: "Tis the Season to Impeach for Treason. Falalalalalalalalala!" And I'm sending this message to all the Dems on the Judiciary Committee...Please join me in doing so.

[Mme. Defarge]

22. K&R!

[Mike03]

26. The Pain is sometimes too great to bear.

The past seven years have been such a nightmare, I think sometimes I am engaging in denial or some other psychiatric defense.

[defendandprotect]

30. How will America answer for or make amends one day for this holocaust on Iraq?

Heaven only knows what we're also doing in Afghanistan --- ????

Plight of women there --- !!!

How many more stolen elections --- ????

See: Votescam website ---

USE THIS LINK
http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

They seem to be hard at working trying to detour people from Votescam ---

[defendandprotect]

33. And I hate to mention this, but people are busy now "Decking the Halls" . . .

This is a difficult time of year to get anyone to pay attention ---

I think we need IMPEACH buttons ---

Wear it while you shop -- !!!

[Hydra]

35. It's too late

The system serves the people in charge- not us. We may as well be in noble laden monarchy.

If you have a problem with that, do something about it- the nobles will simply file your complaint in the "revolving file."

[mdmc]

36. kick

[mmonk]

37. Yes. You recognize the problem.

But since impeachment is the quickest ruote to exposure so this nation will address it's dangerous demons, we have a huge problem in that the system is broken. I don't know how it will end but it appears to be out of our hands. Others are determining our fate though, so we have no choice but to try and change the direction. I hope will put their heads together and figure out how. I'm willing to try suggestions and add some.