My talk with a rabid * supporter. I finally heard exactly what I suspected

[pdxmom]

all along.

My brother-in-law is one of those that thinks * can do no wrong and that he's the smartest, bravest and bestest thing to ever happen to this country. My husband loves to hear us go at it politically (we're strongly disagree, but can yell and scream with no hard feelings), so he called him up last night and told him that I'd said anyone who still believes a word out of this administration needs to be checked for brain damage. Well, that started it.

Nothing was surprising that he said, for the most part. It was all about how right * was and, well Clinton, blah, blah, blah. Total and complete right-wing changing of topic and refusal to stick to his point, because he had no answers. Of course, it was every talking point from the Repukes (I do believe he gets a daily fax).

Then, he said something that absolutely stunned me, and I had thought that was impossible. He said "Bush has to take care of this because the Muslims want to kill every one of us." I laughed and said something about rhetoric and hyperbole and he said, "No, they want to destroy our country." I still couldn't believe I was hearing what I thought I was hearing and I asked him "You mean ALL of them? You really believe all Muslims want to take over our country?" And his response was a heartfelt YES! He truly believes that this is a plot by ALL Muslims...all 1.3 billion of them...around the world, to destroy the United States and make us Muslim.

I had suspected that this mindset was out there in some people, but my BIL isn't a dummy and follows politics as rabidly as I do, albeit our sources are different. If he feels this is true, then I'm of the mind that this isn't just a small fraction of the far right that feels this way...this is their true belief, despite their attempts to pretend on the public airways that this is only a small, radical group that is a threat. They are truly believing that it is ALL Muslims and that we need to go after any Muslim country or ANY country that has a large Muslim population. Bali was a country he mentioned several times, though where that came from I wasn't sure.

So, I see where the enemy is and where they're going. I had suspected it and was hoping I was wrong and that people were more rational than this, but now, I do think this may well be a typical mindset of those holdouts who still approve of this administration. And it scares the hell out of me.

[ProfessorGAC]

1. Methinks You're Too Close To The Situation

You still suggest that your BiL isn't an idiot. The facts refute that judgment.

It just may be that your BiL is farther off-kilter to the far, far, right than you think. Your familial ties may be distracting you.
The Professor

[pdxmom]

7. He's a political idiot, but by sociatal standards, he isn't an idiot. I've

known him for over 25 years and know exactly how far right he is, and I'm not giving him a pass. I had just never heard the absolute hate and racism from him before. And the opportunity was there. We've discussed race issues, gay rights, etc. over the years and I hadn't gotten this kind of statement before, ever. This was something totally unexpected and I called him on it. He was adamant.

[ProfessorGAC]

12. Well, I Can't Compartmentalize Like That

Anyone saying "all muslims" isn't going to rate very high on my brain power scale.

You may be prone to seeing his good points as an excercise in comity. Understandable.

The Professor

[knitter4democracy]

2. I think you're right.

They think it's a crusade. Do they not know any Muslims?

[pdxmom]

14. That was my husband's response to him (we were both on the line) and

my hubby outright told him he was nuts. Told him about the number of Muslims he works with and how he truly enjoys working with them. My BIL would have none of it. Told him they were all lying about their feelings. I don't know if my BIL has any close contact with Muslims, but I know that his hate has grown so strong that he refuses to listen to anything that puts Muslims in a positive light.

[bunkerbuster1]

25. Of course your BiL has no close contact with Muslims.

Neither do vast numbers of 25 Percenters, who are fed this garbage every day on right wing outlets.

I have to think this will become more difficult, though, as time goes on. Too many people have to interface with professionals (especially engineering folks) on the job who are from Pakistan and other Islamic nations. Some probably don't realize that they do know Muslims.

It's not an intractable problem, just one that for now is alarming, but (I can only hope) in time, people will look back on with shame for themselves at how they behaved.

[rudy23]

3. The whole Republican platform is race based fear-mongering

It's a very reptilian brand of marketing and fearmongering, and it's pretty effective.

Also, Republicans don't really know a lot about other countries, or attribute foreigners with having any sort of complexity, so they just see one monolith in the mid-east known as Muslimland.

And they all want to kill us and take over our country. That's how childish the whole platform is.

[underpants]

8. fear-mongering of....... the races

Krugman has been on this recently but this is PERFECT for them. They can be racist but not towards blacks and only sort of :-) towards Latinos but Arabs and Persians(they don't get that complicated) oh HELL YESS!!!!! they know the base will eat this up.

[havocmom]

9. Beyond marketing. It is, and has long been, psy-ops

After WWII, we took in a lot of Nazi VIPs. It wasn't all rocket science ;)

[Cha]

23. That's right...didn't it use

to be Afro-Americans? It's the hatemongers on the airwaves that are destroying our country as well as the corporatemediawhores..filling people with fear and hate. Poor things who suck this up are not strong but their fucking killing us with their weakness.

[Maat]

4. Ironically, I came to this conclusion (in very direct fashion) a few months ago ..

while watching the people across the street from my peace vigil. I was thinking about how one could justify irrational, immoral and illegal invasion and occupation, along with killing over a million people and decimating a country (polluting it with depleted uranium after having destroyed the infrastructure). AND THEN ... out came the ultra-right, extreme religious signs. I realized then that the oppo across the street really believed that the end was near, and that they were in a 'holy' fight against the Muslims (who were no doubt, according to them, serving the Antichrist). I sat there stunned for awhile.

[underpants]

5. Glenn Beck has been the chief mouthpiece on this

He had a "special" months ago on this-al the while promoting it on his radio show about how he couldn't get it on his TV show- I forgot the name of it.

Fear works.

[Cha]

28. And the fear they peddle is

aimed at the weak minded because they suck it up like a sponge. And who profits from this Fear Factor that the corporatemediawhores catapult? The military complex and the monster gluts who own it.

[no_hypocrisy]

6. I've heard the same rhetoric from a gentleman I know who is in

his early 80s and a practicing psychiatrist. He is very well read on the issues, albeit one-sided, and adheres to your BIL's sentiments: the Muslims are out to obliterate the U.S. and kill us all. He is a staunch supporter of Israel and gives to a variety of Israeli political charities. And he isn't even Jewish. He is a neocon without adopting the moniker. He isn't your average "i love bush no matter what he says" guy. He is a WWII veteran, is well-versed on the Third Reich, etc. and he still buys into this paranoid delusion that "they're coming for us".

[Maat]

13. My in-laws are like this.

They are like the perfect sample of Christian Zionists - with this disturbing idea that it's the forces of good (the U.S.A and Israel, in their minds) versus, say, all of the Muslims in the world (along with the French, for some reason).

[tanyev]

20. Wow. I hope he doesn't have any Muslim patients.

[madokie]

10. I hear the same thing from one of my neighbors

not in those words exactly but he truly believes the Muslins want to destroy america, I think with him its the fundie part in him rather than the political side

[pdxmom]

16. That's what I'm finding so amazing about my BIL. There is no fundie

side. He hasn't been in a church except for weddings and funerals since I've known him. His is totally political and based on the fear that's been pumped by the right-wing media.

[bunkerbuster1]

32. Listen to "libertarians" like Neal Boortz

Just one obvious example. Boortz isn't the least bit pro-religion, but he says incredibly nasty things about Muslims at every opportunity.

These guys like your BiL don't consider themselves religious, and that makes them susceptible to a whole different kind of strain of bigotry. They can't really judge that which they don't begin to understand from personal experience.

[mmonk]

11. You're correct.

It's why they have no conscience about the 1.2 million innocents killed or Guantanamo and rendition flights or the elimination of the constitution.

[screembloodymurder]

15. They believe what they're told.

Listen to the shit they call news and you too will be a believer.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

17. You don't have to scratch the surface of the average Republican very far to find the racist

That's always been my experience and I'm sorry if your Mom or Grandpa or whoever is one and you don't think they could possibly be like that. Scary Muslims, illeguls, and/or welfare queens are all they have to invoke to bring the bigotry of their flock to the fore and get their vote out.

[pdxmom]

21. Thank goodness both my parents and my in-laws are good Democrats. None

of them can understand where the righties in the family came from. My family doesn't talk politics, cause it gets too ugly. My BIL is the only rightie on my husband's side. Where that came from, we have no clue.

[Cha]

18. Otherwise sane people

have this thing about listening to hatemongers and I don't know which one it is for your bil, but everyone of them have somebody.

[dysfunctional press]

19. bali is not a country- it's an island province of indonesia.

nt

[pdxmom]

22. I realize that, but he referred specifically to Bali, not Indonesia as a whole. I

still haven't figured out where that rant came from

[Cha]

33. Bali is where they're having

the Global Warming summit with Al Gore. And where my son goes to surf on vacations. He loves the people there..too bad about ill informed people that listen to liars.

[Arugula Latte]

24. They deal in sweeping, way overblown generalizations. Their little brains

can't grasp nuance.

I remember when the hostage crisis started when I was a kid. I was swept up with the anti-Iranian mood of the time (I was 13). My parents rarely put things in context for me. But, I got into a conversation with a friend who whose family was Persian. She explained the background -- U.S. support for the Shah, SAVAK -- all the reasons that there was so much boiling anger. The thing is, people like your brother-in-law will not let their minds progress beyond that stage I was in at 13, before I realized that there is much more there than meets the eye.

[Echo In Light]

26. Americans are programmed to be active, enthusiastic participants in their own degredation

[xchrom]

27. america's long time fav hobby is racism and bigotry.

since reagan -- as krugman has recently been documenting -- the republick party has been playing the natonalism/paranoia trump card.

it's a tactic that never runs out of energy -- it's the mexicans - it's the muslims --it's the liberals -- it's the gays -- it's the feminists -- etc

and yes the very ugly truth is -- they really really do feel/think this way.

[OneGrassRoot]

29. Yep, there are a lot who feel this way and have a sweeping...

generalized desire to "nuke the entire Middle East and make it a parking lot."

Honest. I've been told this repeatedly that this is what needs to be done.

[Lorien]

30. One of my mother's best fiends told us that her pastor told his

congregation that if they don't stand up against Islam "soon every street corner will have a loudspeaker on it calling for prayer in Arabic". I asked if if she believed this hysterical line of total bullshit and she wouldn't answer me.I even pointed out that Saudi Arabia's army is OURS and that Muslims don't do Crusades, but still, she said nothing.

Repugs can't exist without an enemy.

[Ian David]

31. Anyone who still has a "W" Sticker on their car, after all that has happened, all we have learned...

... is a fucking Nazi.

Period.

[bunny planet]

34. In found out with my sister in law and brother in law that even very smart

people can be brainwashed on a steady diet of Fox news tripe. My genius IQ relatives actually think the biggest problem in America is the hidden madrasas that are here training stateside Muslims to kill Americans, no joke. When I pointed out to them that the only 'madrasas' functioning in great numbers in this country were the Dominionist Christian ones, they had never even heard of them. I pointed them towards the Rolling Stone article on the subject but doubt they've read it. My inlaws are Jewish and see everything through the lens of what's best for Israel (attacking Iran) and they perceive the overwhelming threat from Muslims towards Jews here too. I told them they faced a much bigger threat in this country from fundamentalist Christian groups bent on control of our government than they did from the ' hidden Islamofascist training camps here in the good ol' USA. I also pointed out, if * was so concerned about protecting us from the Muslim hoards bent on our destruction why doesn't he protect our ports, why is he in the process right now of cutting funding to do so.

Its a losing proposition to argue with brainwashed, thoroughly propagandized individuals. Very frustrating, very sad.

[immoderate]

35. What does he say about Bush hanging with the Saudi royals?

--IMM

[CJCRANE]

64. That's what tipped me off

about what the War on Terror was really about.

I initially thought it really was a War on Islam but then I started to wonder why Bush was so close to the oil sheikhs and why did he choose to attack a secular country (as Iraq was before "shock and awe"). Then of course there was the Republicans attempt to sell off US ports to the UAE and even Halliburton relocating to Dubai.

So, I've come to the conclusion that it's just domestic propaganda to keep the Repub base cowering in fear while the BFEE/Big Oil/Halliburton make record profits.

[sinkingfeeling]

36. Americans are taught to be paranoid. I was born in 1948 and grew up being told the

Russians were out to take over the world and kill all of us. After most people grew up and lived through the disaster of Nam, we realized that the USSR didn't have the financial capacity to conquer the world and that our nukes vs. their nukes was keeping the peace. The GOP/ultraconservative/fundies have found another 'cause'; another vast conspiracy to take over the world and kill us all: Islam.

[MindPilot]

58. Yep, substitute "terrorist" for communist and the rhetoric is the same

Sometimes even word-for-word. I was watching a film that had some newsreel footage from the fifties, and the Congressman speaking on the floor ranting about the Communist threat actually used the phrase "they hate us for our freedom"!

[Cleita]

37. Apparently your BIL has never met anyone who is Muslim.

I once worked in an office who hired a lot of Persians (women) in Los Angeles. Most were Muslim and I learned a lot from them. Much of what we considered to be Muslim because some fundamentalist Ayatollah or Mullah says it's in the Koran turns out not to be true for the majority of Islam and has more to do with the culture of the people not the religion.

It's like saying that all Christians believe in the Dominionist approach to Christianity and that their interpretation of the Bible is the right one. Those of us, who have actually read the Bible, know that not to be true and most of the fundamentalists take what they want out of context as I suspect all these little cherry picked items from the Koran are picked by the fundamentalist Mullahs.

So if there is a group of Muslims who want to take over America and make us Muslim, it's a very small sect compared to the majority of Islam and you need to educate your BIL about this. His beliefs are borderline bigotry and he's being fed his views by other bigots.

[terisan]

38. I know a Nader voter who is exposed to the RW propaganda. He repeats the "They want to kill us"

mantra from time to time--that is when I know he is watching the Fox and MSNBC jerks. People who do not know any Muslims in their daily life are very susceptible to this.

[JDPriestly]

39. Bali is partly Muslim, but also very Hindu.

http://www.tunjungtours.com/aboutbali/religion.html

___________

Unlike most of Muslim-majority Indonesia, about 93.18% of Bali's population adheres to Balinese Hinduism, formed as a combination of existing local beliefs and Hindu influences from mainland Southeast Asia and South Asia. Minority religions include Islam (4.79%), Christianity (1.38%), and Buddhism (0.64%). These official statistical figures do not include immigrants from other parts of Indonesia.

Immigrants from other parts of Indonesia have drastically changed the demographics in Bali. Although the majority of the population of Bali adheres to Balinese Hinduism, recent years have brought an influx of people from other islands seeking to benefit from the tourist industry, export of local handicrafts and other factors, making Bali the most affluent island in the region. The bombings in Bali by Muslim militants and the numbers of wealthy Muslims from Jakarta with political connections buying prime real estate for development has started to create Hindu-Muslim tensions where none existed before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bali

[pdxmom]

56. I don't think he differentiates between Islam and Hindu. Something he

said to my husband about "turbans" made me draw that conclusion. And appalled me at the close-mindedness.

[progressoid]

40. Muslims are the new Communists.

Some people seem to need someone to hate. And Muslims are a perfect fit.
They dress wrong. They look wrong. They speak wrong. Their religion is really wrong.
What's not to hate?

[catmandu57]

45. I was waiting for this

If nobody brought it up then I was. Yes, Muslims have replaced the Communists, before the cold war fizzled out it was the communists who wanted to kill us all and take over America. The righties had to have a new enemy and Muslims were made to order.
It makes no sense to argue with anyone who believes like your bil anymore, they're gone unredeemable
and yes I do believe that there are unredeemable people out there, the best thing possible is to isolate them and let them live on that patch of pink sky.

[progressoid]

53. Ugh. I'm reminded of the movie, "Red Dawn"

America being invaded by the Russians and the Cubans? :crazy:

But to read the reviews on IMDB, you'd think the invasion had been imminent. There are some people trying desperately to rationalize the threat and redeem the plot. Oy :eyes:

http://imdb.com/title/tt0087985/usercomments?start=0

[pberq]

41. You're not alone in being shocked

when I first heard this from an otherwise intelligent adult, I was blown away.

The level of brainwashing that's going on is scary.

[pdxmom]

59. That's where I was when I posted. I think maybe I'm a little naive, not

realizing how deep the hatred seems to be out there. Or maybe, being in Portland, I'm just isolated in my outlook, because I'm around many people of like minds.

[Fleshdancer]

42. someone once told me that the Muslims are breeding fast in order to take over

how in the world do you possibly respond to such craziness?

[Beausoleil]

43. Maybe he's just jealous

Republicans are supposed to kill us all and take over the country.

[kestrel91316]

44. My guess is he thinks it's perfectly ok for the RW fundie Christians to

plot and scheme to force Christianity down the throats of half the planet like they have been doing AT THE POINT OF A GUN FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS.............

But it's not ok for Muslims to want to do the same.

IOKIYAR(or C).

[bikebloke]

46. Beeb Interview

Before the last election, the BBC interviewed some people in Georgia (I think). This one eejit said that this is a religious war. I thought, why isn't she in uniform and over there fighting for her religion then.

[raccoon]

47. If that's true, shouldn't the US start up the draft right away?

"Then, he said something that absolutely stunned me, and I had thought that was impossible. He said "Bush has to take care of this because the Muslims want to kill every one of us." "

I mean, like YESTERDAY?

I wish you'd said that to him, esp. if he has kids.

If someone really believed this nonsense--that the Muslims want to kill every one of us :crazy: --looks like they'd also believe we need every American fighting to stop it.

I personally don't believe that the Muslims want to kill every one of us. I'm not saying the US should have a draft.

[magellan]

48. Does your BiL have strong religious beliefs? Even quietly held?

Because I've recently discovered that this type is more apt to believe the "Muslims want to take over the US" pap (which they've imbibed directly from this administration and its minions). It feeds into their persecution complex, I guess.

[pdxmom]

62. No. Absolutely none. He was raised a Catholic, like my hubby, but

is so lapsed, he's falling over. There is nothing religion-based about his belief. That I'm positive of.

[ladjf]

49. That fear of Muslims must be some sort of ancestral memories

accumulated over centuries of real or imagined conflict between Christians and Muslims.

[tandot]

50. I guess that is why that "Obama went to a Muslim school" email was making the rounds

a while ago (it probably still is). The ignorance of those folks is astounding.

If they don't have anything else to be afraid off, they just make something up. It is almost like they can't exist if there isn't a boogeyman out to get them. They always try to portray themselves as strong and tough but in reality, they are scared little wimps.

[pdxmom]

63. And I think it's why so many people will believe that drivel. No matter

how much it's debunked, they are going to believe Obama is a plant.

[Javaman]

51. Me thinks your BIL needs serious meds. nt

[troubleinwinter]

52. Tomorrow will be a speech on religion by a pres. candidate who won't allow a Muslim in his cabinet.

Happy America, everybody! Now get out yer Bibles.

[earth mom]

54. Hatred is at the center of the Iraq war. They brainwashed people but good haven't they?

:puke:

[Parche]

55. Hey Fellow Portlander

I feel your pain, my sister and 2 of my best friends are Republican, and they get their news
from ...of course FOX.

Tell them if that is the case about the Muslims, why is it all of a sudden when Bush comes into office?
Why didnt they think about this back in the 80's, this 'Muslim Mindset'

Its all brainwashing from this administration, among other things that is 'All of a sudden'

Like Social Security, all of a sudden it is going bankrupt and needs to be fixed.

All of a sudden Iraq was a threat.........

All of a sudden Iran is a threat.....etc

:hi:

[pdxmom]

65. It does seem like they have to have someone to hate, all the time. My

BIL mentioned defeating the big, bad Communists in this conversation, as well.

Here in Portland, I've been lucky enough not to run into the rabid right in my work or life. It's been very refreshing, considering I'm originally from Virginia.

[MindPilot]

57. I got some of this yesterday from my Christian co-worker

which I talked about in this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=156829&mesg_id=156829

That's how the conversation turned to religion. She is from Egypt and was telling me how the Muslims have taken over Egypt; they want to take over the world; Allah is not a god, but a demon; Muhammad was a child molester; they are breeding extra-rapidly so they can take over, they want to kill everyone who is not muslim, etc, etc, etc.

I think she was channeling Christopher Hitchens.

[LSK]

60. well considering half the Koran is dedicated to the United States....

:sarcasm:

[fascisthunter]

61. Just as with Terrorists

they are easily brainwashed. They just don't realize it nor are they emotionally mature to ever contemplate that possibility. Every country, has them.

[K8-EEE]

66. Actually that good Republican Rev Moon plans to take over the US

and rule the world from here....of course, he's a good conservative Ray-gun lover so nothing wrong with him donating gazillions of cult bucks to GOP propaganda!