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Hugo Chavez’s Struggle against U.S. Imperialism in Latin America

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 01:32 AM
Original message
Hugo Chavez’s Struggle against U.S. Imperialism in Latin America
The intense animosity between Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez and George W. Bush is a product of Bush’s grand imperialist ambitions (especially with respect to oil rich regions of the world) set against a long background of U.S. imperialism in Latin America, in the face of Chavez’s determination to steer an independent course for his country. As noted by Nikolas Kozloff in his book, “Hugo Chavez – Oil, Politics and the Challenge to the U.S.”, Chavez “stands to succeed Fidel Castro as the most prominent opponent of U.S. influence in the region.” Kozloff explains his interest in Chavez in the introduction to his book:

While I agree with Chavez’s criticism of U.S. foreign policy, his origins in the army gave me pause. I have a deep and abiding suspicion of authority and men in uniform, and Chavez’s constant harking on military symbolism … struck me as vulgar and crass… made me wonder whether he really had dictatorial intentions.

But then, watching the coup d’etat unfold against Chavez in 2002, I was frankly moved by the outpouring of support from the poor people of Caracas… They surrounded the presidential palace until the coup government was forced to disband. As Chavez quickened the pace of social programs in the wake of the coup, there was no denying that something big was afoot in Venezuela. Intrigued, I started to take a second look at Chavez and wrote a series of reports about Venezuelan political developments… and the time seemed right to write a book that would provide readers with information to make sense of and come to their own conclusions about the Venezuelan leader, independent of the U.S. media establishment which assumes that Chavez is a feared enemy of the United States…

In reversing Venezuela’s traditional oil policy, Chavez became an important enemy of the Bush administration… The Venezuelan leader has also challenged U.S.-led trade initiatives and the drive towards globalization… For corporate America and the advocates of free-market capitalism, Chavez’s emergence has come as something of a wake-up call… Chavez has done much to unite other South American countries against traditional U.S. influence. This book gives the reader a sense of the social ferment spreading across South America and illustrates Chavez’s place in this wider transformation.

These developments are of great interest to me because my worst fear stems from Bush/Cheney imperialist ambitions which threaten to turn our country into a fascist dictatorship and throw us into a World War that could make World War II look mild by comparison. Therefore, anyone who poses a barrier to Bush’s and Cheney’s imperialistic plans – such as Chavez – is of great interest to me.

In order to better understand the dynamics of the relationship between Chavez and the Bush administration it is important to first understand the long and tragic history of U.S. imperialism in Latin America.


A brief history of U.S. imperialism in Latin America

Not counting the war against Mexico (1846-8), U.S. imperialism in Latin America began shortly after the Spanish-American War, which began in 1898 and led to long standing U.S. hegemony over Cuba and Puerto Rico (and the Philippines too). This was followed by interventions in Nicaragua in 1909 and Honduras in 1911. Stephen Kinzer, in “Overthrow – America’s History of Regime Change from Hawaii to Iraq”, describes how and why the U.S. carried out all these regime changes. His description of the consequences of our imperialism towards Nicaragua is analogous to the consequences of American imperialism towards many other Latin American countries:

In few countries is it possible to trace the development of anti-American sentiment as clearly as in Nicaragua. A century of trouble between the two nations, which led to the death of thousands and great suffering for generations of Nicaraguans, began when the United States deposed President Zelaya in 1909… Zelaya was the greatest statesman Nicaragua ever produced… That terrible miscalculation drew the United States into a century of interventions in Nicaragua. They took a heavy toll in blood and treasure, profoundly damaged America’s image in the world, and helped keep generations of Nicaraguans in misery… and much that is undesirable, including rates of poverty, unemployment, infant mortality, and deaths from curable diseases.

And this is what Kinzer says about U.S. intervention in Honduras:

At the beginning of the 20th Century, Americans deposed a government in Honduras in order to give banana companies freedom to make money there. For decades, these companies imposed governments that crushed every attempt at national development. In the 1980s, when democracy finally seemed ready to emerge in Honduras, the United States prevented it from flowering because it threatened the anti-Sandinista project that was Washington’s obsession…

As described by William Blum in “A Concise History of US Global Interventions, 1945 to the Present”, the United States intervened in eleven different South and Central American countries during the Cold War including Guatemala, Costa Rica, British Guyana, Ecuador, Brazil, Peru, Chile, Bolivia, Honduras, Nicaragua, and El Salvador. The main purpose of these interventions was to facilitate changes to regimes that were friendlier to the United States (and in almost all cases less friendly to the indigenous populations of those countries.) For this purpose, we developed the School of the Americas, which was used to train native personnel in the techniques and ideology of insurgency and counter-insurgency, including torture. School of the Americas training was oriented to support the military and political status quo in each country, which placed the U.S. in opposition to any who seek free speech to discuss problems, alternative means to solve problems, or democratic means to change governments. More specifically, the enemy is identified as the poor, those who assist the poor, such as church workers, educators, and unions, and those who hold certain ideologies such as “socialism” or “liberation theology”.


The nature of U.S. imperialism

Perhaps because the United States had its origins in a revolution against imperial oppression, it has typically gone to great lengths to deny its imperial ambitions, even while acting upon them. Thus, U.S. imperialism has generally been less direct and more subtle than typical 19th and 20th Century European imperialism – though often just as devastating.

John Perkins, in “Confessions of an Economic Hit Man”, explains how U.S. imperialism in the latter half of the 20th Century often worked: Economic hit men (EHM) are paid by U.S. corporations to develop economic projections for major development projects in third world countries. Their projections are supposed to predict substantial economic growth and thereby justify huge loans from international lending institutions. The money from the loan then is funneled into U.S. oil, engineering or construction companies to develop their projects. The projects often or usually benefit only the country’s wealthy and powerful elite, who are represented by the very government that arranged the loan. If all works out well for the involved corporations, the country is unable to repay the debt, which forces them to be perpetually indebted and consequently ensures their loyalty to the United States. That enforced loyalty ensures that the country’s government will perform favors for us, such as allowing our corporations access to their natural resources. Thus, the huge debts incurred under the system cause great harm to the vast majority of a country’s population, not only because of increased taxes and severe cuts in health care, education and other social services, but also because the projects themselves usually deplete a country’s resources and pollute its environment.

If the EHMs are unsuccessful in their efforts to convince a government to play ball, then what Perkins calls jackals are sent in to assassinate or overthrow the uncooperative government officials in question, as was done for example in Guatemala in 1954 and in Chile in 1973. If that doesn’t work either, then we send in our military.

Naomi Klein, in “The Shock Doctrine – The Rise of Disaster Capitalism”, explains that in Latin America much of the U.S. complicity in the overthrow of democratically elected governments had as its main goal the putting into practice of Milton Friedman’s economic theories, developed at the University of Chicago, which served mainly to increase the wealth and power of the wealthy, at the expense of everyone else.

Brazil was already under the control of a U.S.-supported junta, and several of Friedman’s Brazilian students held key positions. Friedman traveled to Brazil in 1973, at the height of the regime’s brutality, and declared the economic experiment “a miracle”. In Uruguay the military had staged a coup in 1973 … The effects on Uruguay’s previously egalitarian society were immediate: real wages dropped by 28%… Next to join the experiment was Argentina in 1976, when a junta seized power from Isabel Peron. That meant that Argentina, Chile, Uruguay and Brazil… were now all run by U.S.-backed military governments and were living laboratories of Chicago School economics.


Chavez’s efforts on behalf of the poor

Much of Kozloff’s book describes Chavez’s efforts on behalf of the poor of his country, which seems to be the motivating factor behind his willingness to confront George Bush. The bottom line is that in order to help the poor Chavez must counteract the kinds of economic and social policies described by Perkins and Klein above. For example:

Chavez hosted a meeting of OPEC heads of state in Caracas in September 2000. In a TV broadcast, he declared that the upcoming meeting was not just about oil. The summit, he continued, would discuss global poverty, foreign debts, and unfair terms of trade for poor nations…. He also advocated for greater restraint in crude output in order to keep oil prices high. Industrialized nations were not amused…

More specifically, though private ownership exists in Venezuela under Chavez, it does not exist as unadulterated capitalism, according to the model that Bush/Reagan/Friedman type conservatives worship. Kozloff explains:

Under article 115 of Chavez’s new constitution, private property must serve the public good and general interest. If a company does not live up to this principle, the government may expropriate but with just compensation. Such moves have made Chavez unbelievably popular, with an approval rating of 70 percent. The government’s actions have radicalized workers, who “have begun taking matters in their own hands” by occupying factories and businesses…

And, Chavez has been especially active in support of indigenous communities in Venezuela, which have historically faced great prejudice and poverty:

Chavez distributed 1.65 million acres to indigenous communities… The move forms part of the so-called Mission Guaicaipuro, which will provide land titles to all of Venezuela’s 28 indigenous peoples.


Why the Bush administration wants to get rid of Chavez

Chavez’s concern for the poor of his country, like the concern of liberals for the poor of any country, leads to policies that are anathema to wealthy corporations. First and foremost, Chavez’s policies have encouraged independence of Venezuela from the U.S., a relatively new phenomenon. Kozloff explains:

Chavez’s six and a half years in power have demonstrated that Third World governments can defend national sovereignty from the likes of the United States. Simultaneously, Chavez has promoted a “nationalist, progressive agenda that… confronts capital.

Even worse, as far as Bush and his corporate cronies are concerned, Chavez is working towards an integration of Latin American nations that could eventually be a major obstacle to U.S. corporate imperial ambitions:

“This integration”, he remarked, “must go beyond the economic sphere. There must also be a cultural, social and political integration that one day could lead to the creation of a federation of Latin American and Caribbean nations. This federation”, Chavez added, would help “combat the perverse effects of globalization that only takes into account economic matters and ignores education, culture, health, poverty and misery.” For Chavez, oil and energy integration was merely the first stepping stone that would unite South America against U.S. objectives in the hemisphere.

And then there is the matter of oil. Shortly after coming to power, Chavez fired Luis Guisti, the pro- U.S. head of the Venezuelan national oil company, PdVSA. Interestingly, Giusti later became affiliated with a think tank headed by James Baker III, where he participated in laying the groundwork for the U.S. invasion of Iraq. Giusti argued that “Iraq remains a destabilizing influence to … the flow of oil to international markets from the Middle East.”

Chavez also pushed through a statute affirming state control over all petroleum operations. And, he has tried hard to develop a major oil conglomerate in cooperation with the other nations of South America, which would be called “Petroamerica”. The significance of that to the Bush administration is that:

If Petroamerica were to become a reality, the new behemoth would control 11.5% of the world’s oil reserves and could help to raise the material conditions of over 530 million people…. If Petroamerica ever came to fruition, it would threaten the untrammeled access of U.S. oil companies to Latin America’s subsoil riches…


Question for the future of South America

Kozloff sums up Chavez’s efforts to date, and where he seems to be heading:

Though many of Chavez’s antipoverty programs are socialistic, the country does not follow a strictly socialist model. It would be fairer to say that Venezuela has pursued a more nationalist course akin to Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s New Deal….

Chavez now has a much more visible international profile, and he stands to succeed Fidel Castro as the most prominent opponent of U.S. influence in the region. While it cannot be said that the Chavez government is truly revolutionary, the Venezuelan leader has resisted neoliberal proscriptions. What’s more, by setting up parallel structures to the state at the local level, Chavez just may succeed in encouraging so-called “participatory democracy” and greater radicalization at the grassroots.

He ends his book by asking:

Will South America, spurred on by Chavez, set a more independent course for itself and seek to break free of historic U.S. influence? Such a development would surely have huge geopolitical implications and it’s a question I plan to take up in the future.

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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. kicked, recommended
and bookmarked.
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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. me too (K&R)
This post by Time for Change was a great summary of "the great game" as it is now being played by the current masters of the world, and of the important role of independence movements in South America.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 02:42 AM
Response to Original message
3. Very thought provoking.
Edited on Sun Dec-02-07 02:43 AM by sfexpat2000
TFC: My grandfather was a street kid, among the 60% of kids born outside of wedlock in his Latin American country. He was able to make something of himself via the most democratic institution available to him, the military, and in time, he was the second most powerful man in his country.

His whole career was tilting with the oligarchy. They tried to kill him on several occasions but he managed to die a natural death here in San Francisco. He lived to see his country free itself from a US backed dictator and, sadly, to go back into US control.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. Wow! That is quite a story
I guess you don't want to say what the country was or what his name was?

Did you talk to him about these things, or did you get it from your parents?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. He died when I was only months old. But, my grandmother
had clippings, photographs, and lots of stories. My mom and her sibling did too, of course.

They used to call the Military Academy "the school of presidents".
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:26 AM
Response to Original message
4. Kick
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:30 AM
Response to Original message
5. another Chavez thread?
Lotta information here, as usual. I am only halfway through it and googling some other articles about Nicaragua and Colombia.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
89. Let me know what you find out
Kinzer's book detailing our regime change in Nicaragua and 12 other nations was excellent.

Colombia is discussed in some detail in Kozloff's book. I think that our pursuance of our drug war in Colombia is terribly arrogant. We routinely destroy small farms that grow coca, which represent the sole livelihood of the farmers who own them. As noted by a Colombian farmer in Kozloff's book, why should Colombian farmers be punished, their livelihood destroyed, because some people convert their prodcut to cocaine?
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #89
95. I am just getting background mostly
I wish the Economic Hitman had done a detailed book on Ecuador. The sad thing though, is that these policies continue no matter which party is in power here, especially the 'drug war'. I just googled coca too, and did not know it is used for tea. Also that the famous 'cocaine in Coke' is really not much different that the stimulating effects of caffeine.
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:51 AM
Response to Original message
6. But, but... dictator!
If we call him a dictator often enough, you have to believe it!
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 05:17 AM
Response to Original message
7. There's nothing as useful as information, is there? Not even opinion from right-wingers!
Not even a lot of speculation, hot air, feverish yammering, and name-calling. Red-baiting?

What a gift it is when someone organizes worthwhile information to share with others here, and on a subject which has been almost completely denied, swept under the carpet, hidden from the very people who have been unknowingly financing these atrocities against the people of Latin America and the Caribbean.

Thank you for taking the time and concern to encourage people to start finding out what has actually been happening all this time our own leaders have been attempting to keep us all completely in the dark.

There is so very, VERY much to learn, and it's all too important to ignore ever again.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. So true.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
8. Finally! K&R!!
One-stop education available right here on DU!!! :loveya:
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
91. Thank you Karenina
Fortunately we haven't had significant book banning in our country yet.
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
10. GW pushes him to be Prez for life...LOL good job CIA.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Yes, CIA & Bush, not the BILLIONS
of dollars he will gain DIRECT and UNCHECKED access to are behind this.

This is all about literal TONS of fucking money.

Not poor people, bush, the cia, or the a revolution.

This is the prize.

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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
11. what is very sad
is the need to spell all of this out for some DUers anymore. Thank You!

K&R!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
14. From the Chicago Tribune:
"When asked Friday, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack wasn't prepared to say that the U.S. had confidence in the legitimacy of Sunday's vote. There won't be observers on the ground, so the outside world won't really have much insight into the procedures that are implemented," he said."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-chavez_avila_nudec02,1,743156.story?page=2


This is simply untrue. The NAACP and the National Lawyers Guild are official monitors. Plus who knows who else from other countries.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
16. Another excellent and well--researched post, TFC. Thank you!
A century of banana-republicanism in Latin America has created a debt that's almost impossible to comprehend given the appalling 'education' most of us have swallowed.

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pberq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
17. Kick & Nominated - great work, TFC
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
18. Excellent post! Thank you for taking the time to put together all this good information.
I hope more DUers will read it and learn.

:yourock:

sw
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
19. Kick
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liberalsoldier5 Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
20. I find it very sad that fellow Democrats...
are cheering this thug (Speaker Pelosi's word) and everything he's doing just because "the people want it" or (even worse) because "he hates Bush too".

As a member of the DEMOCRATIC party, it is in our tradition to be opposing guys like this and supporting all those young protesters who've been chanting "freedom, freedom!" in the streets.

I'm very glad that Congress and the White House aren't engaging in an airwaves fight with Chavez like he wants so bad. It's almost funny; he's down there screaming like an asshole about the CIA and assassination plots and how Bush is the devil and how he's fighting this huge war against US imperialism, while our leaders here are treating him, at least publicly, like nothing more than a pesky fly. When asked their opinion about Chavez's antics, the White House simply replied "we hope the elections will be free and fair." Awesome. You know that just kills ol' Hugo.

Remember, this guy's new best friend denies the Holocaust. I say fuck 'em.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I find it very sad that you are so misinformed.
Diplomatic and strategic relationships aren't friendships, just for starters.

Go find out for yourself why the oil guys hate this guy so much before you drink the kool aid.

This country has been pulling this shit in Latin America for over a hundred years. And, don't be fooled. There is a wave of democracy rushing over that region right now. Your government will do everything it can to stop it, just like it has always done.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Can you be more specific about what you don't like about him?
As far as accusing the CIA of trying to assassinate him, do you not believe that the Bush administration was involved in the 2002 coup attempt against him? If the most powerful country in the world tried to overthrow you, wouldn't you make a big deal about that? You think that Bush wouldn't try it again if he thought he could get away with it? And what's wrong with being against U.S. imperialism. It damn well is a huge war. Our imperialism in Latin American has destroyed the lives of millions of people over the past century.
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DLnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #20
40. So overwhelming popular support is something democrats should be
afraid of?

Interesting that the anti-Chavez posts seem to be based purely on name-calling, whereas the pro-Chavez threads tend to list volumes and volumes of actual documentation in terms of books and articles.

Incidentally, Columbia is full of corruption and criminality also. But, since they have not challenged US policies in SA, they get massive support from US, instead of threatened coups and assassinations. So your idea that US foreign policy supports freedom and justice is a theory desperately lacking in supporting evidence.


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reorg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #20
87. I find it very interesting that self-acclaimed Democrats ...
are heaping praise on the Bush White House ... "Awesome". Says it all!
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
23. K & R for putting an end to our militaristic/imperialistic agenda
and exposing the corruption of our media and the media's masters.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
24. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Do you need a new keyboard?
Your caps lock appears to be stuck...
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Oh, noes! We are COMUNISTs! I'm Series! This is HUGH!!11
We cast asparagus at Fearless Leader!

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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #26
50. Critter Sizing!!! OMFG!
:rofl:
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #50
78. Now, now...don't go casting asparagus on him
That would be baaad!

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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #78
86. But...but...was only thinking of this picture!
Edited on Sun Dec-02-07 05:22 PM by Whoa_Nelly


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fizzgig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. can you speak up? i didn't hear you the first time
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. I'm amazed you got 'speech' right after all that
"OBFUSCATES YOUR INTELLECT"

Your intellect, let me show you it.

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zippy890 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. LOL - 'your hate for Bush obfuscates your intellect'

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #35
45. LOL!
:rofl:
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Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. garaceg IS HUGH!!11!11!!!! WE'RE SCREWN!!!!111!!!!!
Edited on Sun Dec-02-07 03:32 PM by Writer
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zabet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #29
80. Oh Noes!!!!!
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. "THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS IMPERIALISM."
:eyes: :puke:
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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. Over 700 military bases in over 130 countries. Military ventures in 2 ME countries.
Edited on Sun Dec-02-07 03:39 PM by Flabbergasted
Proclaimed military dominance.

Definition: Imperialism is the forceful extension of a nation's authority by territorial conquest establishing economic and political domination of other nations that are not its own colonies.

Spreading: "freedom and democracy"

This guy wouldn't know imperialism if it hit him in the face.
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ret5hd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. You wasted your first post on THAT?
You must have skipped Trolling 101.
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. I was under the impression that there was a minimum amount of posts one needed
before starting a thread. Oh well...
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Oh wait, nevermind
I thought this was an OP. I just got here from the lounge.
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Sugar Smack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. LOL. THANKS FER MAKIN MY DAY!!!!!!11111!!!
:rofl:
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lightningandsnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #24
37. TYPING IN ALL CAPS DOES NOTHING TO HELP PROVE YOUR POINT.
Really.
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Mutley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #24
38. Hahahahaaa!
This has to be a DUer playing a joke on us all. It's too perfect. :rofl:
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Sugar Smack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. It's like being given a present.
:P
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Mutley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. Hey now
Don't obfuscate my intellect, mkay? :D
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JackBeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #24
39. But I thought your Supreme Leader Reagan got rid of Communism.
:shrug:
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #24
42. CAN'T BELIEVE YOU GRADUATED FROM SCHOOL
WITH THAT PEA BRAIN OF YOUR'N.

Ignoramus.

Oh, and IBTL.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #24
43. Welcome back!
:hi:
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #24
46. You've been writing this since 11/22 haven't you?
I can tell. It's that good.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. Yeah, since November 22! LOL
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #24
48. As an educator, you just single-handedly quadrupled the meaning of my life work!
Thank you ever so much for a delightful moment in educational history.

Scholars everywhere will forever point to this post to underline the need for improving education and supplying people with functional keyboards :rofl:
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
49. Communists? Would you defend those in China making toxic products?
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Cybergata Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #24
51. Don't you know that it is rude to YELL among a group . . .
of people who are having a reasonable discussion. Guess what? Yelling Communist in a a crowded room just doesn't have the effect it did forty years ago. It is also has little effect on people who have actually read Marx & Engles.

http://www.Marxists.org/archive/marx/works/cw/index.htm
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #24
53. I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU CAN'T FIND THE CAPS LOCK BUTTON!
-SIGNED A HUGHLY PROUD AMERIKUN!!! I'M SERIES!!!!11!
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mainegreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #24
54. You need to smoke some pot and chill the fuck out.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #24
55. Welcome to DU!
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RedCappedBandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #24
57. IS IT OK TO HAVE THE PEOPLE KIDNAPPED AND NOT LET THEM LEAVE THEIR COUNTRY???
I dunno, ask bush*
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #24
58. "IS IT OK TO HAVE PEOPLE KIDNAPPED AND NOT LET THEM LEAVE YOUR COUNTRY?"
No, it's not ok. I'm in complete agreement with you there.

Who are you referring to? Bush or Chavez? (And if you say Chavez, please provide link)

Thank you.
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #24
59. Did you have a jug of Koolaid for breakfast?
Take a look at what's going on in THIS country. Bush is turning it into a police state.

And P.S. You think Bush is so great? I've got a little secret for you. HE DOESN'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK ABOUT YOU! If you think he does, you are living in the State of Denial.

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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #24
60. Wow. I haven't heard that kind of rant since 1968. Sounds like you wouldn't mind BUSH being in
power for 50 years.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #24
61. Communists! Where?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #61
70. Did you check under the bed?
We're everywhere!
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #24
63. Mods:
Please do not tombstone this poster!
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ret5hd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. Seconded!
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Sugar Smack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #65
76. Thirded. He's too precious.
Bless his heart.
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Ellen Forradalom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #24
64. "No such thing as imperialism?"
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

From one American to another,

:patriot:

you crack me up.

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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #24
66. Countdown before execution....3...2...1...
bang!
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #24
71. Does the CapsLock overcome the monitor drenched with spittle??
Jingoistic bullshit.
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Oeditpus Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #24
72. Why, I oughta...


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FloridaJudy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #24
74. "He's trying to change the constitution so he can be re-elected"?
Hmmmmmmm...now who does this remind me of?
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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #24
75. Can't believe you can't actually spell...
Enjoy your stay, Idiot...

RL
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Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #24
79. Yes, writing in all-caps make it true
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mtnester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #24
81. Look how well NCLB is doing
series...this is hugh.

I am going to call my senator right now dammit.
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conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
83. IBTS!!! IM1!SERIES!1!11!!
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stuntcat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #24
84. fabulous example, thanks
and following it up with no answer, that's some brave shit right there! :applause:
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #24
88. WOOHOO!!!11 WHY ARE YOU A PROUD AMERICAN?????
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #24
92. Proud American? Isn't that an oxymoran?
:evilgrin:
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leeroysphitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #24
96. Latin America knows all to well what the promises of Wall Street imperialism is worth.
It knows they are perfectly capable of saying "allies for progress" when in reality they are saying "allies for misery".
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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #24
98. FYI, poster is no longer with us. n/t
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
47. "an invasion of vagrant California 49'ers into Mexico in a crazed attempt to wrest Baja California"
One of the first motivations of the freebooters trying to wrest territory in Latin America was to restore slavery!
William Walker from Tennessee was one such character who wrought havoc on Mexico and Central America, to make of himself a dictator.
(Any relation to Bush, you ask? Good question!)

Excerpt from: http://www.jqjacobs.net/writing/fa_part4.html

PERHAPS NOT ALL DAYS WILL WE BE IN THIS WORLD
or
ATENCION TODO PASAJERO.

The Museo Nicarao de Antropología e Historía de Rivas .... display cases report that the area's first inhabitants arrived from Colombia and were displaced by Chorotega people 1,000 years later. The Chorotega were displaced by the Nicarao arrival from Central Mexico. The Nicarao are a subgroup of the Pipiles, inhabitants of the west coast of Central America. The interpretation states that the Pipil spoke Nahuatl, a Uto-Aztecan language derived from what is now Colorado, Nevada and Utah.

The museum building, of colonial vintage, was formerly the ranch house of the Hacienda Santa Ursula. After the Sandinista triumph the property was expropriated from a Somocista and with local cooperation the ranch house was rehabilitated to become the new home of the museum. The structure has the historical distinction of having been the first refuge of the rebels who started the 1856 uprising against the military dictatorship of William Walker. A large plaque decorating the museum entrance was presented by the President of Costa Rica to commemorate that memorable beginning of Central American liberation 130 years ago. The names of the "Heroes of Rivas" are unknown. To appreciate the historical significance of the Santa Ursula ranch house a telling of William Walker's history is necessary.

One interesting chapter of Walker's history preceded his sailing to Central America. He led an invasion of vagrant California 49'ers into Mexico in a crazed attempt to wrest Baja California and Sonora from Mexico to create a separate nation, with himself as leader of course. His small army, routed by Mexicans, surrendered to the U.S. Army in Yuma, Arizona. He was tried in San Francisco on charges of violating neutrality laws. Walker's acquittal was attributed to admiration for his bold scheming by a jury of his peers.

In June of 1855 Walker and 58 men who called themselves "the Immortals" landed in Nicaragua with a plan to conquer the nation and build a canal connecting the oceans, thereby making Nicaragua a significant power. To skirt neutrality laws Walker and company entered as colonists, were sworn into the Nicaraguan army as the American Phalanx and became citizens. Liberal revolt leader Francisco Castellón arranged Walker and company's emigration in exchange for military support. On landing the Immortals stated that they had come to free Nicaragua from oppression. Walker's small army sailed south along the Pacific Coast, crossed inland and attacked Rivas. They were nearly repelled but managed to hijack the steamer La Virgin on Lake Nicaragua. The captain's complaint that the ship was an American vessel did not deter the Immortals. They sailed to the conservative town of Granada, which they captured at dawn. In short order more newly arrived armed recruits from California marched in Granada in a torch light parade to "Hail Columbia" and "Yankee Doodle Dandy."

Walker proclaimed that he had come to Nicaragua to bring democracy. When Castellón died Walker gained full control of the liberal faction. When the insurrection was settled Walker became Army Commander, an army swelling with California recruits into the American Phalanx. Walker's effective control increased. He rose to dictator by ordering his opponent, Secretary of War General Corral, to death by firing squad. Walker invited the other countries of the region to unite under his rule. Only El Salvador bothered to send a reply. In the U.S. in the South Walker's exploits were favored by those hoping that Nicaragua would enter the Union a slave state. Walker's goal was to colonize with white North Americans and eliminate the brown skinned Natives whom he despised. Meanwhile the ranks of the American phalanx grew to a few thousand men. The Nicaraguan Liberals knew they had been deceived when the Conservative party nominated Walker for President. He was elected and the Liberals revolted anew with Costa Rican and British support. Costa Rican troops became involved in Walker's ouster after Walker's troops invaded Costa Rica. At one point the Costa Ricans invaded Rivas and cut off the transit road. Generals from El Salvador, Guatemala and Nicaragua united to battle Walker. Furthermore British warships cut Walker off from foreign contact or support. A desperate Walker destroyed Granada and withdrew to Rivas. Finally Walker attempted to evacuate his surviving men by ship from the Pacific coast. He was captured by the United States Navy and the bloody and destructive conflict ended. Walker's second Central American reinvasion attempt resulted in the leader of the Immortals meeting his end. A firing squad of brown skinned and barefoot Hondurans ended the Walker problem on Sept. 12, 1860, five years after his landing from California.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #47
97. Very interesting
I'd heard of Walker's attempts to invade and take over parts of Central America, but I wasn't familiar with the details. I don't recall if he received some support from the U.S. government for his efforts?

This episode sounds very much like our forced regime changes in Nicaragua and Honduras, discussed wo well in Kinzer's book, which I discussed in the OP -- except that those were successful and had very substantial backing of the U.S. military. They also occurred several decades later, at a time when perhaps our country was more confortable with the idea of forced regime changes of other countries.
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Tuesday Afternoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
56. don't mind me
I am just here for the popcorn :popcorn:
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
62. Can you prove Chavez actually gives a damn about the poor & merely isn't playing personal politics?
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ret5hd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #62
68. healthcare, education, avg income, economy...all up substantially.
I dunno, but if bush would do all those things...(long perplexed pause)...well hell, we don't have to worry about that, do we.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #68
73. Sounds nice, but do you have any links to back those up?
And, oh yeah, we need to have to improve health care, education, et cetera in America.
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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 03:03 AM
Response to Reply #73
102. You can read this summary
and decide if you want to believe the numbers or the ideologues: http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=35952

Or ignore it and carry on.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #62
69. You might want to consider how much easier it would have been
to just cut a deal with the United States than to go to all this trouble.

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #62
77. Of course, it's nearly impossible to prove motivations
But clearly, his policies are designed to help the poor.

As sfexpat2000 says, below, it would have been a lot easier for him to go along with the wishes of the U.S., as so many other Latin American leaders have in the past. I believe that would have been the safest route for him. For antagonizing the Bush administration, he had to stave off a coup attempt, and he was lucky to come out of it alive. I think that it is also clear that his life continues to be in grave danger -- I'm sure he is aware of the fate of so many other Latin American leaders who have been assassinated or removed from office because of the disfavor of our country.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #62
82. Here's an idea. Read the Original Post.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
67. TFC..I thank you, too, for
this very organized, informative thread on our anti-hero in Venezuela, Hugo Chavez!
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
85. "a cautionary examination of the use of television to deceive and manipulate the public."
THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED = FILM on the Failed Overthrow of Hugo Chavez

A must see history of the unsuccessful plot to overthrow the democratic government of Venezuela.
The plot succeeded and a dictator was quickly installed, but the People realized what was happening
and they rose up. Before I give away the whole story.....

And NOW, presenting, for your viewing discretion at any time

THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED
KIM BARTLEY AND DONNACHA O'BRIAIN
75 min - Apr 23, 2006
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5832390545689805144

Discussion of the film here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2386960#2387383

Stephen Holden, The New York Times
"More than a scary close-up look at the raw mechanics of a power grab, the film is also
a cautionary examination of the use of television to deceive and manipulate the public." ...
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
90. Chavez's Venezuela: A Fighting Chance for an Egalitarian Society?
Chavez's Venezuela: A Fighting Chance for an Egalitarian Society?
by Dr. Rosa Maria Pegueros - Aug 23, 2004
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0823-13.htm


In the wake of Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez's victory in the attempt by the opposition to recall him last week, one might ask, what does Chavez have that Fidel Castro of Cuba, Jacobo Arbenz of Guatemala, and Salvador Allende of Chile lacked? Is it his charisma? Populist ideals? A restive elite? An antagonistic and powerful northern neighbor? No, they all shared those attributes and handicaps.

Oil. Hugo Chavez has oil, one of the largest reserves in the world and a fifty percent increase in government revenues because of the rising prices for it on the global market.

Both President George W. Bush and the Democratic challenger, John F. Kerry, have characterized him as an "anti-democratic leader" but considering Hugo's program and achievements in office, one can only wonder what common meaning "democratic" can have to two men who profess to disagree upon so many issues. If, by democratic, they mean a government run by a small plutocracy that controls all of the country's wealth, then I suppose that Chavez is anti-democratic. If they mean leaders who funnel the people's money into the pockets of their friends, then I suppose he is anti-democratic. In fact, if they mean men who identify with the poor to the point of putting programs in place that will lift the entire society in a generation, then Chavez is certainly anti-democratic. It might be nice to live in an anti-democratic country if this is what democratic means in the Alice-in-Wonderland parallel world of American presidential politics.

But if democracy means to be by, for, and of the people, then Hugo Chavez might want to take a turn as U.S. president when he has cleaned up Venezuela.

.............
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Oerdin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
93. I get tired of the fanboying for Chavez
A man who is wholly unworthy of such adulation.

A private militia reporting to a political party, yet armed and funded by the state. The power to dismiss elected officials regardless of jurisdiction or party. Suspension of media rights to date, with more now authorized. Repeated referendums to endorse dramatic changes to the Constitution. Demonization of an identifiable group as a scapegoat. Opponents of the regime repeatedly threatened, shot or "disappeared," often by armed gangs of pro-government thugs sent to disrupt opposition events. Economic and security alliances of convenience with other totalitarian or authoritarian regimes. Forcible seizures of property held by opponents, endorsed by escalating legal standards to approve same.

I'm not going to fall into the trap of claiming that Chavez is the world's worst villain, or world's worst threat.

He isn't.

But I'm not going to make the same mistake I made with the likes of Mugabe either - especially since this guy is following Mugabe's formula almost to the letter. And yes, line up and find ten other examples just like him. So what? I'm not going to childishly rush to "paint the witness" and forgive serious crimes and an organized attack on democracy just because, hey, he's not towing the American line, so he must be cool!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #93
94. Yet another factless attack. Wow. I never realized how potent
Hugo was.

:evilgrin:
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rAVES Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #93
100. There is a billion other threads where you can type baseless M$M Propaganda you know...
Edited on Sun Dec-02-07 11:00 PM by rAVES
Somebody actually put real effort into this thread.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #100
103. Indeed!
:kick:
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
99. K&R
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #99
101. K & R = YES won big in the EXIT POLLS, and lost narrowly!
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