FBI list more than doubles for gun applicants deemed "Mentally Defective" - Most from California

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-gunchecks_webnov30,1,1078959.story

WASHINGTON — Since the Virginia Tech shootings last spring, the FBI has more than doubled the number of people nationwide who are prohibited from buying guns because of mental health problems, the Justice Department said Thursday.

Justice officials said the FBI's "Mental Defective File" has ballooned from 175,000 names in June to nearly 400,000, primarily due to additions from California. The names are listed in a subset of a database that gun dealers are supposed to check before completing their sales.

The surge in names underscores the enormity of the gap in FBI records that allowed Seung Hui Cho to purchase the handguns he used in April to kill 32 people and himself at the Virginia Tech campus in Blacksburg. snip

The vast majority of the individuals who were added to the FBI's list were identified by the state of California, which provided more than 200,000 names to the FBI in October, the Justice Department said. Ohio also provided more than 7,000 new names, and the number of states reporting mental health data to the FBI this year grew from 23 to 32, officials said.

[Mojorabbit]

1. I'd love to know what the criteria is

for being put on the list. I can see where this has a lot of potential for abuse. I know there needs to be a database but I am hoping there is some clear parameters for being put on it.

[michreject]

3. Once on the list, there is no way off

That is my understanding. Schumer holds the purse strings for the funding required to allow for an appeals process. No funding = no appeals.

[Tejas]

5. Is there a problem?

"I know there needs to be a database but I am hoping there is some clear parameters for being put on it."

Surely you wouldn't think .gov would make a mistake... :smoke:

[fed-up]

7. atf definition of "mental defective"

http://www.atf.gov/press/2007press/050907open-letter-to-states-attourneys-general.htm

Section 922(g)(4) of 18 U.S.C. makes it unlawful for any person who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution to possess firearms or ammunition. This prohibition covers two classes of persons—those who have either been (1) adjudicated as a mental defective; or (2) committed to a mental institution.

Each of these terms is defined by Federal regulation at 27 C.F.R. § 478.11 as follows:

ADJUDICATED AS A MENTAL DEFECTIVE

A determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease:
Is a danger to himself or to others; or
Lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs.
The term shall include—
A finding of insanity by a court in a criminal case; and
Those persons found incompetent to stand trial or found not guilty by reason of lack of mental responsibility pursuant to articles 50a and 72b of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, 10 U.S.C. 850a, 876b.

COMMITTED TO A MENTAL INSTITUTION

This term means a formal commitment of a person to a mental institution by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority. The term includes a commitment to a mental institution involuntarily. The term also includes a commitment for mental defectiveness or mental illness, and commitments for other reasons such as for drug use. The term does not include a person in a mental institution for observation or any voluntary admission to a mental institution.

ATF has historically interpreted these provisions as constituting two distinct prohibitions. Each prohibition represents a separate disqualification. For example, a “commitment” means a formal commitment, not a voluntary stay. Excluded are stays for observation only. Nor does the term include a stay in a mental institution that never involved any form of adjudication by a lawful authority. However, a stay that began as a voluntary stay may be subsequently transformed into a disqualifying stay if a court, board, or other lawful authority makes a determination that the person is a danger to self or others. Moreover, a voluntary stay that is by itself not disabling could be later converted into a formal commitment and therefore be disabling.

For purposes of a Federal firearms disability, ATF interprets “adjudicated mental defective” to include anyone adjudicated to be a “danger to him or herself,” “a danger to others,” or lacking “the mental capacity to contract or manage their own affairs.” For purposes of Federal law, “danger” means any danger, not simply “imminent” or “substantial” danger as is often required to sustain an involuntary commitment under State law. Thus, for example, adjudication that a person was mentally ill and a danger to himself or others would result in Federal firearms disability, whether the court-ordered treatment was on an inpatient or outpatient basis. This is because the adjudication itself (a finding of danger due to mental illness) is sufficient to trigger the disability.

It should be emphasized that whatever adjudication procedure a State employs, the Constitution requires certain guarantees of due process. In order for a particular commitment order to qualify as a prohibiting commitment, ATF historically has required that traditional protections of due process be present, including adequate notice, an opportunity to respond, and a right to counsel. Such protections are important because whether a person has been adjudicated a mental defective or committed to a mental institution, the firearms disability is permanent.

We recognize that the procedures that result in a person being prohibited vary widely under State law and we encourage each of you to work closely with ATF to determine whether your statutory or regulatory mental health commitment or adjudication procedures under a particular set of facts might result in a determination that qualifies as a Federal prohibition.

We appreciate the interest that Federal, State, and local law enforcement and other stakeholders have in improving the enforcement of our nation’s firearms laws, and ATF stands ready to assist the States in improving their efforts to ensure information on disqualified persons is collected and provided to the NICS system. Questions or concerns about any of these issues may be directed to your local ATF field office.

[Ian David]

2. Why don't we just buy all our bullets from China? That way, they won't fire, and nobody gets hurt.

Unless they explode in the barrel.

I bet Chinese bullets are contaminated with children's toys.

[Tejas]

6. Bill Clinton was a visionary

By banning imports of ammunition from Red China,
he made sure we would never have that problem.



ps: Thanks for the laugh, that was pretty funny, hope you don't wind up on a "LIST" because of your sense of humor.

[Tejas]

4. names?..........or patient records??? (+ link that works)

CNN reports that "patient records" were sent to the FBI.

No need to sign up here:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/29/gun.checks/index.html