Anyone know anything about Heifer International?

[gilpo]

We are doing charitable donations in family member's names as gifts this year. Does anyone have suggestions? We were thinking of doing Heifer.org and Morris Animal Foundation (wife's a veterinarian, so this one is mandatory). I want to make sure the $'s are going mostly to the benefit of the target of the foundation, not to overhead, etc. Thoughts?

[pinto]

1. charitynavigator.org does comparitive analyses of non-profits:

http://www.charitynavigator.org/

(fwiw, They give Heifer three out of a possible four stars. Free registration required to read full report.)

[gilpo]

5. Thanks. I'll check it out. n/t

[AnneD]

2. Very worthwhile...

our elementary school did several donations. That really is how you save the world-one family, one village at a time. I give it :thumbsup:

[Arkansas Granny]

3. I use Charity Navigator to check on orginisations.

Here's their take on Heifer International.

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=9654

[gilpo]

7. Thank you!

[AlGore-08.com]

12. Ditto - - Charity Navigator is a great resource - - NT

[gratuitous]

4. Heifer started just after World War II

Dan West, a minister with the Church of the Brethren (one of the three historic peace churches, along with the Quakers and the Mennonites), was interested in helping post-war Europe recover. Starting with one cow (named Faith), they made a symbolic donation to start the program.

Heifer provides livestock (cows, goats, rabbits, bees) to farmers, and follows up with instruction and know-how about taking care of their stock, along with the agreement that the offspring will be shared with other area farmers. Truly a gift that keeps on giving.

[sinkingfeeling]

6. I assume you mean Heifer International. I have been a long time donor to them and think they are a

wonderful organization. Some people disagree with their 'use' of animals for food, but I believe delivering milk, wool, eggs to families around the world who live in dismal conditions is a great idea. They invite people to their farms and HQs in Little Rock, AR and train individuals around the world to care for and 'grow' the animals into a source of income for entire villages.

For several years now, I have made donations in the names of my family members for Christmas, birthdays, and Mothers' Day.

http://www.heifer.org/site/c.edJRKQNiFiG/b.204586/k.9430/Gift_Catalog.htm?msource=kw1844


Edited to add link

[gilpo]

8. Thanks!

[gilpo]

9. I updated the post withthe correct name

My bad :)

[IDemo]

10. Sounds very worthwhile, with one note

Choosing a gift such as a "flock of geese" does not mean you are necessarily giving a literal flock of geese. You are just selecting a level of monetary support which they will use as they see fit. Your money may be used to plant trees, or for administrative expenses, or it may go toward actual geese.

[State the Obvious]

11. This is a good example to set for children/grandchildren who have everything.

We've added this to our gifts for those in our family who either say they don't need anything, or the kids that get mountains of presents. There is a very important lesson for the younger ones to learn.....give to others who are in need....and be thankful for what you have.

If you order early enough, Heifer International will send you gift cards (long fold out cards with different pictures of what your donation can do.) If you don't want to gift an animal (or a share of one) you can gift trees, or seeds instead. Giving to the less fortunate is a new concept for some children.

Didn't Bill Clinton write a book on "Giving"?

[gilpo]

17. That's why we're doing this...

I am horrified by the materialism manifest in my kids.

[mzteris]

13. how much $$ really goes to those who need it?

". . . Of the money spent by Heifer Project International in 2004 (most recent available (MRA)) only 71.7% went to program services for an overhead of 28.3%, an extremely excessive overhead (per their 990 filings with the IRS (program services/total expenses)). The Heifer International Foundation (manages and disperses the endowment for the organization) (per 990 filings 2004,MRA ) has a whopping 73.6% overhead. Compare this with:

a) CARE (a similar type organization that is secular and has a more holistic approach) with overhead at 7.9% (according to their 2004 990 filing MRA)

b) Action Against Hunger 11.1% overhead (according to their 2003 990 filing, MRA).

c) Save the Children 10.4% overhead (according to their 2004 990 filing, MRA)

d) Plenty International (organic plant agriculture based aid since 1974) 11.1% overhead (according to their 2004 990 filing, MRA). "

http://www.all-creatures.org/articles/heifer-reasons.html

[gilpo]

16. Thanks for the info!

[yellowcanine]

19. The lowest percent overhead is not necessarily a good thing. It can mean that money and materials

are sent places with very little follow up - meaning little sustainability afterward. Heifer tends to emphasize sustainability so many of their projects continue even after they have moved on. If you count the monetary value of the projects that are no longer under the control of Heifer I suspect that their overhead numbers would look a lot better. To have sustainability people need to be sent with the aid to teach people how to use the aid and to build capacity for sustaining the project. Supporting those people counts as overhead but in the long term it is probably a good thing. After all, one could run a project where food was parachuted out of donated transport planes and there would be almost no overhead costs - but would that kind of project be worth supporting? I don't think so.

[mzteris]

21. I'm not sure how "sustainable"

sending feed animals are, really.

If you consider that it takes about as many resources to "grow" the animal as you get from it versus the resources used to "grow" plant food and what you get from that, I think you'd find that helping with other issues - like clean water, health, education - would generate better and further reaching results than just sending someone a cow.

[yellowcanine]

27. "just sending someone a cow." Well that is not what Heifer does.

I suggest you read up more on them before making such characterizations. As for veggies vs meat, it is not as simple as one vs the other. Which is more sustainable, a patch of beans that must be cultivated every year, or a cow (or more likely a dairy goat, actually)that lives a number of years, eats mostly perennial grass and other plants that people cannot eat, and produces milk every day and a calf every year. There are also cultural aspects. Many societies eat at least some meat. And it is a mistake to simply talk about cows. Heifer is much more than cows even though they started out that way and their name would suggest that. Animal husbandry can be part of a sustainable agricultural system and in fact I have heard some sustainable ag experts say it is a requirement. I probably wouldn't go that far but the case can certainly be made.

[LeftyMom]

29. But a dairy cow- the flagship gift of the whole organization- is an odd choice

Most humans aren't adapted to digest cows' milk. And the ones who are (northern Europeans and their decedents, some ethnic groups in Mongolia and India) generally aren't generally especially needy.

[yellowcanine]

54. They started with cows - that is the reason for "Heifer". Give them credit for

not simply doing what they started with but adapting to changing needs. The reason they started with cows was because the organization was founded by an American farmer from Indiana. He knew cows. And in fact Heifer shipped many cows to northern Europe after WWII which was quite needy at the time because of the war devastation and the cows were replacements for herds which had been lost during the war. Since then they have branched out to include not only many other species of animals but also honeybees and trees. So it is quite unfair to say the least to knock them simply because of a sixty year old name when in fact they been leaders in adapting their strategy of assistance to local situations. You really are being unfair in your effort to knock Heifer at all costs -even the truth apparently.

[mzteris]

34. I'm well acquainted with HI

I used to be a supporter, back when. Organized a fund raiser at my church for them, in fact. The "cow" comment was just shorthand - indeed, any animal.

Which is more suatainalbe - a patch of beans that can be grown for years and years and years - or a cow or other animal that has a shorter lifespan and who consumes as much as they contribute.

And no, they don't typically eat "perennial grasses" - HI teaches zero grazing techniques - which is confined non-grazing feeding. You have to haul in food and water for them.

The same patch of ground used to raise feed for the cow and the water to keep said cow alive could be used to better benefit the people.

". . . Raising cattle for food uses a lot of water, because cattle eat tons of crops that need to be grown (using water) to feed them. It takes 25 gallons of water to grow one serving of rice, 63 gallons of water to produce one egg, and 625 gallons of water to make one quarter-pound hamburger. It takes up to 100 times more water to produce one pound of beef than one pound of wheat. . ."
http://www2.sfenvironment.org/aboutus/school/teacher/lesson_plans/wet_appetite6-12.pdf

[yellowcanine]

62. You can haul cut grass or hay to them. Hay is usually a perennial grass - it can also be other

plants. There are many hectares in the world that are not suitable for annual crop production for one reason or another that can however quite easily sustain perennial crops such as grass. In fact if the land is left in native grasses the only way the land can produce much food is through a ruminant animal. You can talk about the vast quantities of land used in this country and Europe to raise grain for cattle and other livestock all you want - in most of the world it is not done that way. The animals are sustained mostly on perennial plants, either grazed or cut and carried to them. As for water, perennial crops make much better use of available water than annual crops such as beans and wheat. I have seen prairie grasses in Kansas with roots 6 feet long. Wheat at most has roots that go down 3 feet and beans are much less than that. Goats can also survive on browse (tender twigs and leaves from woody plants). Try having that for your breakfast. People are designed by evolution to have some meat in the diet - not a lot, certainly not as much as North Americans and Europeans eat on a daily basis - but some. Yes it is possible to eat a completely vegetarian diet, but it is not as easy as many think, particularly in less developed economies where the land may not be conducive to annual plant cultivation. It is easy to be a vegetarian in North America, not so easy in arid and semi arid regions in many parts of Africa, and almost impossible in a place like Mongolia.

[mzteris]

38. an informative exercise

http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/sc1.html

*****

NYT ". . . Consider these numbers. Global livestock grazing and feed production use “30 percent of the land surface of the planet.” Livestock — which consume more food than they yield — also compete directly with humans for water. And the drive to expand grazing land destroys more biologically sensitive terrain, rain forests especially, than anything else.
But what is even more striking, and alarming, is that livestock are responsible for about 18 percent of the global warming effect, more than transportation’s contribution. The culprits are methane — the natural result of bovine digestion — and the nitrogen emitted by manure. Deforestation of grazing land adds to the effect."
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/27/opinion/27wed4.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin

[yellowcanine]

63. Again, you are mostly talking about large scale confined animal feeding operations (CAFOs).

or about conversion of old growth forest to grasslands for grazing. That is not what Heifer is promoting. This is a red herring.

[sinkingfeeling]

25. As I said, some vegetarian organizations oppose Heifer International. The site you quote states:

"We are dedicated to cruelty-free living through a vegetarian - vegan lifestyle according to Judeo-Christian ethics."

[mzteris]

28. doesn't negate the facts, though.

Just passing on where the $$ goes.

And really, how "beneficial" are those animals?

Wouldn't education, health care, insuring clean water, and improving agricultural practices go further in creating a sustainable future?

[sinkingfeeling]

41. You need to read more about Heifer. They are working on clean drinking water. They send educators

across the globe, and their programs are improving agricutltural practices. I just returned from Peru and personally saw how the native people lived in the Andes. They are absolutely dependent on llamas and alpackas for providing wool, from which they make their own clothing and also can sell for money to live on. I will be donating 2 of each animal, earmarked for Peru and Equador, this Christmas season. Heifer has been recognized by the UN, Forbes, and the AVMA for their work. They offer many opportunities to vet students for study in return for those students working in other countries to train locals in animal management.

This website rates them #1 as the best on-line charity. http://best.lovetoknow.com/Best_Online_Charity_Gifts

[mzteris]

47. you know you don't REALLY "donate an animal"

right?

You donate money that's put into a general fund that may or may not go to by any animal - much less the animal of your choice - and may or may not go to the "family" or even country of your choice.

[yellowcanine]

51. And Heifer does not hide this and it is SOP for organizations like this.

But you knew that. Right?

[mzteris]

56. didn't know if you did or not.

Most people actually believe they are buying a goat or a llama or some cute little baby ducks . . .

[yellowcanine]

58. Most people do not pay much attention to what the brochure says. Is that Heifer's

fault then? Here is the link. The disclaimer is there. Yes it is at the bottom in smaller print but it is there if people want to read it. And as I noted, this is SOP for organizations like this, even for "adopt a child" organizations. It simply would not be cost effective to track every gift and then the critics would surely fault Heifer for that.

http://www.heifer.org/site/c.edJRKQNiFiG/b.2663295/

[mzteris]

60. one should always read the fine print

- but most people don't.

[Booster]

14. Heifer Int. is my first choice when donating. I have been donating

to them for about 5 years now and I highly recommend them. It's expensive, but you can actually go on trips with them to deliver the animals, which says to me that they are on the up and up. I love the idea that the people that get an animal pass on the offspring of those animals to others. I donate in the name of my best friend's mother who died and when they open the gift card every year they all tear up - I love Heifer.

[RamblingRose]

15. The book "Beatrice's Goat" is about the Heifer project. The forward is written by Hillary Clinton.

Wonderful story.

on edit
It is a childrens' book and it is the afterword not the forward that is written by HRC. I have read it with my kids many times to help them appreciate what they have.

[LeftyMom]

18. They don't provide any vet care or training to care for the gifted animals.

I found that pretty shocking, that the recipients aren't even trained in basic care, and are required to use confinement methods rather than traditional agriculture, even in places where land and forage are cheap and that makes no economic or practical sense.

[yellowcanine]

20. Where did you get that information? That is not quite what it says on their website.

Heifer conducts training programs for para-vets, or Community Animal Health Workers (CAHW) when local professional veterinary care isn't available. It's one of several strictly-followed Animal Well-Being Guidelines, which also include:
Giving preference to purchasing animals that are already acclimatized to the local area.
Providing full training to farmers before they receive any livestock.
Using appropriate shelter and separate pens for animals of different species.
Teaching zero grazing techniques, which enhances animal health and ensures that adequate food and water are provided.
Emphasizing nutrition, including clean water at least twice a day.
Encouraging indigenous breeds.
Providing project participants with all initial vaccinations.

http://www.heifer.org/site/c.edJRKQNiFiG/b.201546/#Animal%20Management

Note that many of the areas where Heifer operates are overgrazed, plots are too small for proper grazing, etc. Where land and forage are cheap (where is that anyway? - no place in the Third World that I know of) Heifer is not likely to be operating as they are not needed. Also Heifer is correct whan they say that animal health is enhanced by confinement under these conditions. We are not talking about CAFOs here with thousands of animals in a building. We are talking about one cow or one pig on a half acre lot. Not only that, in many of these areas a grazing animal is going to get stolen.

[LeftyMom]

22. the allcreatures link above should link to a hell of a lot of info on heifer, including that tidbit

They got that information from Dr Ellis on the HPI Board of Directors. According to him, HPI has had or currently has projects in 110 countries, and employs a total of four vets, two in the US, one in Uganda and one is the Project Coordinator in Asia.

With only four vets on staff and two in known managerial non-care roles (the Asia Project Coordinator, and Dr. Ellis himself on the Board,) and no vet at all in Central or South America, it's likely most Heifer animals never see a vet.

The animals are kept in zero grazing pens which are very small in order to collect feces for fertilizer (and in some countries they are also bagged for urine to fight banana blight.)

[yellowcanine]

30. "Vets on staff" is not an accurate measure of whether the animals are getting vet care. That is an

unwarranted assumption, particularly since Heifer makes an effort to explain how vet care and animal husbandry knowledge is transmitted to recipients. I pasted the relevant info in my post.

Again:

"Heifer conducts training programs for para-vets, or Community Animal Health Workers (CAHW) when local professional veterinary care isn't available. It's one of several strictly-followed Animal Well-Being Guidelines,...."

In other words, Heifer depends on local vet care when it is available or trains people to provide the care when it is not. That is a heck of a lot more efficient and sustainable than using expatriot vets.

Yes, Heifer teaches people to raise the animals in such a way that the manure can be utilized. This is a bad thing? How so? If the animals are healthy and well cared for, why is it bad? How small is "very small"? I suspect that any confinement would be too small for some vegetarians but do you really think it is fair to impose those mores on another culture that does not have the options of a North American vegetarian?

[LeftyMom]

31. That's not what Dr. Ellis says. He says that in-country care is done by non-vet

local animal husbandry people, who generally do not have access to drugs or training with them and use folk medicine.

Since he's on the HPI board, I'd think he'd know.

As for the pens, any pen sufficiently small to permit efficient manure collection is almost certainly abusively (and health-threateningly) small, since it's going to necessitate that the the animal stand around in it's own shit.

[yellowcanine]

35. One, you are paraphrasing this Dr. Ellis. How do we know you are reflecting what he said

accurately? Please provide a link if you are going to use this argument. Second, it does not take a vet to provide proper vet care and it does not always even take drugs. Are the animals healthy? Do you have evidence that they are not? If not, I think you are making assumptions without relevant facts.

What you said about pen size is grossly inaccurate as anyone who has ever kept a horse in a paddock could tell you. And there are no animal caretakers more particular about the health of the animal than horse owners. If the manure is collected in a timely fashion there is no reason for the animal to have to stand in it 24/7. And even if they do step in a little it is not going to hurt them. They are not eating it.

[LeftyMom]

36. I already said it's from the allcreatures.org link above

Here are their notes from the conversation (I'd prefer a tape recording and transcript, but I don't doubt this is an honest summary of what he said)

"Telephone conversation with Roger Ellis, veterinarian

HPI Board of Directors

HPI started in Puerto Rico, 1944

Today 22 species of animals are involved

110 countries, 35 US states have been involved over the 55-year history.

Currently active in 35-40 countries and 17 states.

In most countries, there is no HPI employee!

1-5% of animals are raised in the US. Some are shipped from the US to foreign countries and some are shipped between foreign countries. e.g., Ireland supplies some cattle. Are flown in planes. Not sure how others are shipped whether in boats or planes, believes most are flown. Vets go with animals (volunteers). Try to educate themselves, taking animals from temperate US to foreign countries is not optimal. Cross-breeding to improve hardiness. US-raised animals are purchased from breeding farms (not donated).

Have only two veterinarians employed by HPI in US. There is one in Uganda. Another he knows is the Project Coordinator in Asia. Some volunteers. Probably others trained in local countries, are not employed by HPI, but trained by HPI volunteers. 2-year agricultural course = vet tech type, called "vet", some don’t even know how to palpate. Frankly, in some countries, the "vet" is just a lay person, not formally trained. Mastitis strip course.

Follow-up is done by local animal husbandry people, not really trained as veterinarians, often don’t have many drugs, use folk medicine, often works. Some drugs are donated by drug companies to HPI, some are purchased, some countries have better availability of drugs.

Zero grazing pens cost $200 per family. This is an intensive (small) pen aimed at facilitating manure collection.

Animals are routinely slaughtered for food when their usefulness to humans is over (excess male goats and cattle, old animals whose milk production has dropped off, all rabbits, pigs, etc.). The whole town participates, often including the children. Dr. Ellis has participated in many slaughters. Even though he is desensitized to the animal pain, he will NOT attend a kosher slaughter, it is too gruesome even for him! He said he does not like the suffering, but "we have to be sensitive to culture." Dr. Ellis believes that it is good to share the killing process with the children, to "let them understand the reality."

HPI only fills 1/2 of requests that come in. How it works:

Community decides they want project. (May have heard of from Peace Corp volunteer, etc.; HPI does not advertise to start projects in a country.) To be approved, community must put together a committee to learn how to feed and care for and house the animals. (If an animal dies, their job is to find out why. Then they get another animal.) Gender-sensitive, must be women on committee. Often it is the women who do the work in some societies. Families are asked to pass on first-born female to the Project. Males are killed for meat. Community slaughterhouse. Realities of agriculture. Dr. Ellis didn’t know how most of the animals were slaughtered.

For cattle, goats and sheep, HPI insists on "zero grazing pens." Stall to eat and pen to graze. If give fee range, get shot and in neighbors garden, etc.

Ticks are a big problem, so don’t allow long grass.

Milk is not the most important commodity. Manure is. Urine is also composted for banana blight

An acre of grass per animal. Some community pens.

It costs about $200 to build a zero grazing pen (a year’s income). Where do they get the money? Some get "micro credit", e.g., in Uganda, have YWCA loans, etc.

It is typically 9 months to one year before the first animal comes.

A lot of the breeding is by AI "

[yellowcanine]

40. Ok - even worse. It is an "advocacy site" They are opposed to eating animals. Do you

really think they are going to quote Dr. Ellis accurately? Not only that, it is highly suspect to quote only one board member. Why not visit some sites and talk to people working on the program? Take pictures of the pens, etc. Interview the people getting the animals. Hire an independent vet to assess the health of the animals.

[LeftyMom]

42. There's a description there of a visit to a breeding farm used by Heifer by HSUS

Note that the animals were caged.

Read the damn link. And don't say you did, because it's long and you didn't have time.

[yellowcanine]

50. Actually I did read the link. And you did not relate the whole story by HSUS.

HSUS won’t take stand. HSUS position is that if you raise an animal, you should do it as humanely as possible. HSUS supports small family farms as opposed to factory farms. But does not have a lot of contact with HPI. Feels that they are good people, positive project over the years, provide training where animals are placed. Went to inspect HPI ranch in Arkansas 10 years ago. All looked okay to him except some animals were in cages. Spoke to manager and he agreed to fix. Has not been back. Was alarmed at wording in brochure and plans to go back and investigate.

So the "cage" business happened 10 years ago, the manager agreed to fix it and HSUS hasn't been back to follow up in that time. Doesn't sound as if HSUS has much of a beef with how Heifer operates - or even knows much about them. And you did a nice job of switching the goal posts, by the way. You were resting your argument on the Dr. Ellis "interview" and all of a sudden that won't carry the day so you jump to another argument and throw in an out of context (the whole account was mostly neutral and even somewhat positive toward Heifer) 10 year old observation by an HSUS investigator. Poor form and dirty pool, imo.

[RamblingRose]

24. Check your local library and see if they have the book "Beatrice's Goat". It is a true story about

a 9 year old Ugandan girl. In the afterward written by HRC, she states that the Heifer Project provided Beatrice's family with "resources, training and community support. They received a goat that provided nutrition and income, knowledge of how to care for this precious gift without harming the environment..."

We get the catalog and my girls love the idea of giving someone rabbits or chickens, though I'm sad to say we have never donated to the project.

[LeftyMom]

26. Uganda is one of the few places HPI has a vet.

There might have been some vet advice or husbandry training in that case, but that would be atypical in the extreme.

[yellowcanine]

32. No it is not atypical. You are deliberately ignoring information I provided to the contrary.

Please at least acknowledge that you are providing an opinion that may be biased against any use of animals for food - or at least biased against any confinement of animals. You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts. You have provided no evidence that it is atypical for Heifer animals to receive proper vet care other than the number of Heifer staff vets - which is not even close to an accurate way to measure vet care for an international aid organization that operates the way Heifer does.

[LeftyMom]

33. See post 31. I'm getting information from an interview with a board member. You're getting it from a

children's book/ fund raising appeal.

[yellowcanine]

37. I got it from their website - not a children's book. Would a board member

contradict their website? We only have your word for it. You need to provide a link if you are going to use that argument. You may be misquoting Dr. Ellis. How do we know?

[LeftyMom]

39. Does your scroll button not work? The link was upthread.

Here it is again, since you can't seem to look upthread as instructed or understand that it's hard to "misquote" a direct cut and paste (this symbol "" means the information within is quoted, and the attribution was given in the post.)

http://www.all-creatures.org/articles/heifer-info.html

"Telephone conversation with Roger Ellis, veterinarian

HPI Board of Directors

HPI started in Puerto Rico, 1944

Today 22 species of animals are involved

110 countries, 35 US states have been involved over the 55-year history.

Currently active in 35-40 countries and 17 states.

In most countries, there is no HPI employee!

1-5% of animals are raised in the US. Some are shipped from the US to foreign countries and some are shipped between foreign countries. e.g., Ireland supplies some cattle. Are flown in planes. Not sure how others are shipped whether in boats or planes, believes most are flown. Vets go with animals (volunteers). Try to educate themselves, taking animals from temperate US to foreign countries is not optimal. Cross-breeding to improve hardiness. US-raised animals are purchased from breeding farms (not donated).

Have only two veterinarians employed by HPI in US. There is one in Uganda. Another he knows is the Project Coordinator in Asia. Some volunteers. Probably others trained in local countries, are not employed by HPI, but trained by HPI volunteers. 2-year agricultural course = vet tech type, called "vet", some don’t even know how to palpate. Frankly, in some countries, the "vet" is just a lay person, not formally trained. Mastitis strip course.

Follow-up is done by local animal husbandry people, not really trained as veterinarians, often don’t have many drugs, use folk medicine, often works. Some drugs are donated by drug companies to HPI, some are purchased, some countries have better availability of drugs.

Zero grazing pens cost $200 per family. This is an intensive (small) pen aimed at facilitating manure collection.

Animals are routinely slaughtered for food when their usefulness to humans is over (excess male goats and cattle, old animals whose milk production has dropped off, all rabbits, pigs, etc.). The whole town participates, often including the children. Dr. Ellis has participated in many slaughters. Even though he is desensitized to the animal pain, he will NOT attend a kosher slaughter, it is too gruesome even for him! He said he does not like the suffering, but "we have to be sensitive to culture." Dr. Ellis believes that it is good to share the killing process with the children, to "let them understand the reality."

HPI only fills 1/2 of requests that come in. How it works:

Community decides they want project. (May have heard of from Peace Corp volunteer, etc.; HPI does not advertise to start projects in a country.) To be approved, community must put together a committee to learn how to feed and care for and house the animals. (If an animal dies, their job is to find out why. Then they get another animal.) Gender-sensitive, must be women on committee. Often it is the women who do the work in some societies. Families are asked to pass on first-born female to the Project. Males are killed for meat. Community slaughterhouse. Realities of agriculture. Dr. Ellis didn’t know how most of the animals were slaughtered.

For cattle, goats and sheep, HPI insists on "zero grazing pens." Stall to eat and pen to graze. If give fee range, get shot and in neighbors garden, etc.

Ticks are a big problem, so don’t allow long grass.

Milk is not the most important commodity. Manure is. Urine is also composted for banana blight

An acre of grass per animal. Some community pens.

It costs about $200 to build a zero grazing pen (a year’s income). Where do they get the money? Some get "micro credit", e.g., in Uganda, have YWCA loans, etc.

It is typically 9 months to one year before the first animal comes.

A lot of the breeding is by AI "

[yellowcanine]

43. Button works. As I said, it is an advocacy site that opposes eating animals.

Of course they are going to slam Heifer. They provide animals that people might eat. It is a no brainer that All-creatures is not going to be an unbiased source of information about Heifer. The so-called "interview" is not even a transcript. It is a paraphrase of the interview. We have no way of knowing how accurately Dr. Ellis was quoted - he was not quoted!- or what the context of his remarks were. You can't seriously think this is a good source of information on Heifer.

[mzteris]

45. another sources of information:

". . . John Burton, director of the World Land Trust, urged shoppers not to buy into the charity goat phenomenon.
"The goat campaign may be a pleasing gift and a short-term fix for milk and meat for a few individuals,” he said. "But in the long-term the quality of life for these people will slowly be reduced with devastating effect." " http://money.uk.msn.com/guides/ethical-money/article.aspx?cp-documentid=4750411

[LeftyMom]

52. And of course the dairy goat is kept continually pregnant

And all of the male offspring and most of the females will be eaten young, the female will be killed after a few years when her milk production wanes. Likewise with dairy cattle.

Even without the lack of medical care and the confinement, constant pregnancy and breast engorgement is pretty much inhumane by definition.

[yellowcanine]

57. Not even close. More misinformation.

Does are bred to freshen once a year and are usually allowed a two to three month nonlactating (dry) period before the next parturition. This allows the mammary system time to repair and regenerate for the next lactation. The greater a doe’s production, the longer the dry period should be, because she has used more nutrients than an average-producing doe. She will need more time to replenish losses and store reserves. Does that are not given a normal dry period usually produce only 65 to 75% as much milk in the subsequent lactation as does given a dry period. (Harris and Springer, 1996) It is important for does to be dried off in good body condition and have a minimum of an eight week dry period. When drying off a doe you should reduce the quantity and quality of her diet. Grain should be reduced or removed, and she should be given a lower quality of hay. Changing the doe’s routine will assist in reducing milk flow. You must continue to monitor drying-off does, because it is common for mastitis to develop during this time.

http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/dairygoats.html


Gestation period is about 5 months (150 days), so with a minimum of a two - three month dry period, the typical dairy goat is bred around November, kids around April, is milked from May through mid January, and is dry from mid January through March. Milking is done usually at least twice a day, sometimes three times so there is not going to be a lot of udder engorgement with proper management. I am not sure how you would know what is inhumane for a dairy goat? And I don't think you have made the case for lack of medical care or that the confinement is inhumane either. Is it humane for the goat to be attacked by a predator such as a spotted hyena, which is what will happen to it if it is wandering around outside in say, many parts of sub Saharan Africa. I know. I have been there.

[rucky]

23. PLEASE donate to Heifer

they are a fantastic organization that help communities become self-sustaining.

A friend of mine works for them in Mexico, and they're setting up family farms - growing crops and raising livestock in a way that doesn't deplete the soil and choosing food that can provide variety and nourishment to the community. They also teach teachers.

In their catalog, they tell you exactly what your donation will give and where: You can "adopt" a goat for Peru, or a sheep for Africa, etc.

[mzteris]

44. additional guide to charities -

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=3809

pretty interesting stuff here. Look around.

[shanti]

46. there was another thread on this

a couple of days ago...

[cgrindley]

48. Most people I know use them

they're apparently pretty trustworthy.

[noonwitch]

49. I'm going to get my cousins to donate a goat in my grandpa's name

Grandpa recently lost Grandma, who had been in a nursing home. He doesn't want presents, other than the stuff my sister's kids make for him at school. He doesn't want books or clothes, since he thinks he's going to die soon (he and Grandma had been saying that since they were in their 60s-Grandma was 91 when she died a few weeks ago, and Grandpa is 94).

When he was a little boy in Austria, his job was to lead the goats to the meadow to graze during the day, and lead them back afterwards. I thought if we all went together and donated a goat, he would like that.

[MiniMe]

53. Check some animal rescue groups

Cats and dogs mostly, but there are ferret rescues too. Most of them run on a shoestring. I volunteer for a lab rescue, and all the money we get in goes directly to the dogs. It pays for surgeries, heartworm treatment, and whatever else is wrong with the dogs that come in. For dogs, there are rescue groups for every breed, and you should be able to find a local one.

Good Luck!

[Blue_In_AK]

55. This is a good charity.

As far back as I can remember, my mother and father used to donate shares in different animals on behalf of us kids. We didn't think much of it when we were younger, of course, but looking back I see how wise it was.

[bill]

59. Re: Anyone know anything about Heifer International?

You might want to try kiva.org. They give low-interest loans to folks in developing countries.

[Ino]

61. Look into kiva.org

They have gift certificates. You can choose the recipient of your microloan, and you get an email each month detailing the repayment. When the loan is paid off, you can re-loan the money to someone else, or re-claim it for yourself.

I believe 100% of your loan goes to the recipient, as there is a separate area where you can donate to kiva's operating expenses.

I have 2 loans out right now, and I love it. It's so =personal=.