I hope all you smart DUers are watching what's happening in Pakistan and learning something about

[scarletwoman]

how happy and willing the Rulers are to make sure that elections take place.

Have any of us heard even once from the Wise Media Commentariat or our Esteemed Political Leaders, so much as a stern word about the fact that Musharref has jailed at least hundreds (if not thousands) of secularists and liberals? Nope. What you hear is that Pakistan's military dictator has promised to hold elections on the previously determined date -- no matter that he intends to continue his declared "State of Emergency".

Elections! Hooray! Elections mean Democracy! No matter that you've thrown out the independent Judiciary and put your puppets in power. No matter that you've shut down the independent media. No matter that your "War On Terrorism" appears to be targeting only your political opposition and the very elements of a free, civil society who are most opposed to fundamentalism and authoritarianism.

No, as long you're allowing elections to proceed, you're golden. Elections=democracy, and only anti-state malcontents could possibly believe otherwise.

Take heed, dear comrades. The Ruling Class LOVES elections. It gives the masses the illusion that they have a say in how they are Ruled. Elections are really quite harmless, because the Rulers can negate any result they don't approve of.

So, yeah -- fret and stew over 2008 all you want. Just understand that the only reason you're voting at ALL is because the Ruling Class knows full well that they'll get their way no matter what. They'll make sure you keep on voting in order to keep you docile and fooled. You're just a mark on the Ruling Class' Midway.

sw

[LisaM]

1. Even though Pakistan isn't a democracy anyway....

Has anyone pointed that out to GWB?

[scarletwoman]

2. Of COURSE Pakistan is a democracy! They have elections! (nt)

[IronLionZion]

69. Saddam Husein's Iraq had elections! WHOOO!!!! nt

[scarletwoman]

87. Funny how many people are actually fooled by that. (nt)

[slipslidingaway]

3. K&R n/t

[Blashyrkh]

4. K&R

[AndyTiedye]

5. Elections? No Problem. It's Easy to Win an "Election" When You Count the Votes

[Turbineguy]

76. Uncle Joe

"If I had 200 million Russians I'd keep right on killing them until they were all gone" Stalin.

[slipslidingaway]

6. From Democracy Now today

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x69194

"Martial Law Continues in Pakistan As Gen. Musharaf Announces Election Date

Pakistan's military leader General Pervez Musharaf has announced parliamentary elections will be held on January 9th but he has refused to say when he will lift martial law...

Gen. Pervez Musharaf: "The emergency reinforces the war on terror. So I really don't know how you see emergency as countering or negating the war on terror... So, therefore, all that I can say is I do understand that emergency has to be lifted but I cannot give a date for it. We are in a difficult situation and therefore I cannot give a date...


Report: Pakistan Releases Leading Taliban Commander

Meanwhile Newsweek reports that Pakistan has released several senior Taliban commanders including Mullah Obaidullah Akhund, the highest ranking Taliban official ever captured by the Pakistanis. Taliban sources told the magazine that Akhund was released one day after Musharaf declared martial law. Akhund once served as defense minister for the Taliban and was one of the closest confidants to Taliban leader Mullah Mohammad Omar. The Taliban leaders were released as part of a prisoner exchange."

[scarletwoman]

7. By George, I think you've got it! Thanks so much for posting that! (nt)

[slipslidingaway]

11. YW except thanks go to DU'er 'gateley' who posted it in the

videos forum, I guess we're all in this together :)

I read another article last night that I meant to post...some people in Pakistan are not happy that we have helped Musharaf. Bush needs to stop making friends all over the world!

[scarletwoman]

15. Well, it certainly ought to be abundantly clear by now that NO one cares if the people of Pakistan

are happy. No more than any Rulers care anywhere -- including here.

That's the point of my post. The Rulers will do what they want -- whatever seeming concessions they make to "democracy" are solely for purpose of keeping the masses quiescent.

sw

[slipslidingaway]

25. !!! "...whatever seeming concessions they make to "democracy"

are solely for purpose of keeping the masses quiescent."

[scarletwoman]

28. Thanks for the kick. (nt)

[starmaker]

8. Why Can't We Count?

eom

[scarletwoman]

9. Better to ask, who does the counting? (nt)

[starmaker]

12. Nobody

nonhuman glitches

[truedelphi]

10. I think I have given up on elections.

The two women who exposed the "VoterGate" of Florida died shortly after that (Back in the 1970's)

And my boss man Andy Stephenson died while still involved in trying to bring about elections that are free from corruption. (July 2nd 2005)

The idea of elections intrigues me but it seems a lost cause.

I guess I woke up on the wrong side of the bed today.

[scarletwoman]

13. To me it sounds like you just plain woke up. There are many delusions and illusions all around us.

I'm just hoping to pierce through some of them. If you're on the "wrong side of the bed", then I am, too.

Peace,
sw

[malaise]

14. I think lots of DUers know we're being played

re Pakistan.

[scarletwoman]

16. Yeah, but not enough understand that we're being played the very same way HERE. (nt)

[JDPriestly]

17. Staging a coup to avoid elections is a typical strategy for right-wing free market at all costs type

See Naomi Klein's The Shock Doctrine. Coups and privatization go hand in hand. Same folks. Same mentality.

[scarletwoman]

19. What I'm asking is for people to make the leap and understand that the very same thing is going on

HERE, in the U.S.

The point is, elections are NOT being avoided -- Musharref has PROMISED to hold elections. And he will.

And he will because he knows that elections mean nothing. If you are in power, you can control the outcome. If you have the power to keep your opposition locked up -- under your "Declaration of Emergency" -- then there's no reason NOT to hold elections. Because you know they will merely reinforce the illusion of legitimacy. You already control the outcome, it's to your advantage to redirect the people's anger to the ballot box -- to fool them into thinking that the outcome represents the collective will.

Do you see?

sw

[starmaker]

20. Even more

when the opposition if it won would not change anything
the illusion of the opposition

[scarletwoman]

22. Exactly! Because the "opposition" comes from the same Class.

Elections are just a puppet show for the groundlings.

sw

[DCKit]

44. It sounds even better when they call it "nationalization"

And the effect is the same; concentration of power AND wealth among the rulers. That is why I have been cautious of Hugo Chavez and the longer he maintains power, the more suspicious I become.

[scarletwoman]

80. You do realize, I hope, that "nationalization" is the antithesis of the "free market" referred to in

the post to which you replied.

I happen to think that a nation's natural resources should be nationalized -- certainly they should NOT be in the hands of a few ultra-rich "owners" for their personal profit and private enrichment.

sw

[leftchick]

18. CIA OPs: Wash Rinse Repeat!

anyone with a modicum of intelligence recognizes the pattern.

[scarletwoman]

21. I'm asking for people to recognize this as a universal tactic of the Ruling Class.

To recognize that this same dynamic is operating in the U.S. as well.

I'm sick of the Kubuki, and sick of watching so many fall for it.

I am a far left fringy. :P

sw

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. This is disaster capitalism at its best

wanna bet Musharaff is bout to privatize more stuff?

Ah the corporatists are at work all the time

[scarletwoman]

24. They own the world. We just live in it. (nt)

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. No they don't

every time they do things like this, they miscalculate... and sooner or later pitchforks, tar and feather comes out.

The time is coming near for that

[scarletwoman]

31. I love you dearly, but I think you are wrong about the pitchforks.

Just take a look at how many DUers -- arguably some of the most informed political junkies in the U.S. population -- who proudly declare that they will "vote for the Democratic Party nominee" no matter who it is.

These are not people who are inclined to grab pitchforks and torches, these are people who hope against hope that they can preserve their delusions against all odds.

sw

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Like any other phenomena give it time

or one more stolen election...

It will happen... just that the longer it takes the louder and more pailful that explosion will be

We can have a Third American Revolution.. or a French Revolution, or anything in between

You can boil the frog, every so slowly, but sooner or later the frog does realize this water is too damn hot

[scarletwoman]

35. "...sooner or later the frog does realize this water is too damn hot" -- just before it dies.

I don't mean to be a contrarian -- you are one of my very favorite DUers, and I respect you unreservedly.

I guess I'm just more pessimistic and cynical than you. Watching this board for so many years, I feel mostly despair.

My apologies,
sw

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Oh I am plenty cynical

but the leftward lurch, not in the US, but worldwide is well underway

And the French Revolution did not come from nothing.

Just saying.

We may not see it, or it may happen just before we die... but it wil happen

It is Newton's laws applied to society... to every action... there is a reaction

And from studying history I know where we are... but I also know what will come...

[scarletwoman]

37. Oh, I believe that, too. But I think that too many ordinary people are suffering in the meantime,

while denial and entrenchment in the status quo seeks to hold back the inevitable.

sw

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Ain't that the truth?

The level of denial...

But it will come... later, sooner, it will

Every time people like these idiots press the way they have... it leads to social explosions and this one... I expect it to be a duzzy

And they always miscalculate

[scarletwoman]

39. Thank you SO much for helping keeping this thread kicked! I really appreciate it!

I worry about how many people are going to suffer and die -- like in a planet-wide catastrophe brought on by unbridled capitalism and militarism.

Maybe I'm impatient because I'm old. I'd like to go out knowing that I've helped plant the seeds of a better future...

sw

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. I see us as the pahpheteers of the 17th and 18th century

we may not see it, but every post is a seed planted

[scarletwoman]

83. Yes. I very much like that image of "pamphleteers", what we do IS that kind of work.

It's about changing one mind at a time...

sw

p.s. -- btw, downthread I quoted a post of yours from a different thread, because it so totally rocks! :loveya:

[Ghost Dog]

64. "I'm impatient because I'm old." Aye, there's the rub. n/t.

[robinlynne]

70. You are Scarletwoman! (planting the seeds) Even when you feel that it is doing no good,

there is someone reading this and getting inspired.

[scarletwoman]

82. Thank you for your kind words. I hope you are correct. (nt)

[Ghost Dog]

65. cf. (Pakistan): Biggest ever $ 5 bln FDI reflects investors confidence?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3064207#3064375

[scarletwoman]

81. I tend to think that whatever is wildly benefitting the Plutocrats ISN'T going to benefit the People

But I'm a very cynical person. ;)

sw

[Ghost Dog]

88. Yes. Si. Un abrazo.

:hug:

[Bright Eyes]

26. Rec'd

I agree completely

[Generator]

27. Stop making sense

CLEARLY you are just itching for a Republicon to win. ;-)

[scarletwoman]

29. I am a very flawed cog in the wheel. (nt)

[Lilith Velkor]

32. B-bu-but we need somebody electable in 2008!

That means we need to concentrate on shutting up those smelly liberals so they don't ruin it for us again, and pay no attention to the maniac in the White House, or anything that's going on in the world!

[scarletwoman]

33. Yes! We need someone who will SAVE US! (nt)

[shance]

41. If others would only realize we are the ones we are waiting for to save us

n/t

[Gonzo Gardener]

42. We need to SAVE OURSELVES!

[scarletwoman]

43. Love the pic! Is that your kid? Thank you SO much for coming by!

(I'm assuming you knew that my "savior" post was sarcasm.)

:loveya:
sw

[Gonzo Gardener]

45. Yep, that is my heart & soul.

He has grown much since the photo was taken.

You had me going...

I think my heart skipped a beat as my jaw dropped to my chest. Then there was that internal sound, like, screeching brakes that echos in my head when I read/hear something so, well... wrong! I was tempted to reply with, "NO, NO, NO, scarletwoman!" :P

'Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again' GWB

:evilgrin:

BTW, great post!

[tekisui]

46. We are living in Invisible Fascism.

We *feel* just free enough. Everything seems normal at first glance.

Yeah, elections, no problems here. As long as we get to vote.....

[Gonzo Gardener]

53. Freedom is an Illusion but Fascism is Not Invisible.

:rant on:

DHS VIPR teams sweeping through cities asking citizens to "Submit to Search" before boarding buses, trains, etc... The TSA is claiming jurisdiction over ALL modes of transportation.

Here in Indy they set up security stations at bus stops this summer. These agents were stopping people traveling the streets, they were boarding buses to search belongings and patting down passengers getting on & off the buses.

It is quickly becoming visible and it has angered many people in my area, much to my delight! (I'm encouraged by the negative reactions of solid Republicans in my very red state. I, sometimes, use this example... this shared view point... as a way to begin a dialog with my (R)ed brothers.) Many choose not to see if they *feel* that they are within their comfort zone. I'm all for a little state sponsored discomfort if that is what it takes for people to open their eyes and begin to seek a way to improve things.

As for voting (or not voting) , I really believe that many of those who choose not to vote (the disillusioned non-voters) do so because they see it as mere "Kabuki" and feel they have no real voice at all. We need to engage these folks and show them that they can help to change things with or without voting. I see it for what it is and still believe that participation is necessary. We must do more than push the big button on the Diebold machine and hope that, if elected, our candidate follows through on his campaign promises once in office. We must participate... make a genuine effort to force this "Grand Experiment" to evolve so that it may succeed. This is not something that can be done by voting on election day alone. It will take a sustained effort, on many fronts, to get us moving in the right... LEFT direction.

I just love this quote:

"The illusion of freedom (in America) will continue as long as it’s profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.” Frank Zappa

I'm for busting down that brick wall!

:rant off:

edited for spelling error.

[leftchick]

57. ah Frank....

he was so far ahead of his time, he would be horrified at how bad it has gotten since he said that. Great quote. :)

[scarletwoman]

85. One of my favorite quotes! And now yours, too: "I'm for busting down that brick wall!" Hell, yeah!

:yourock:

sw

[gateley]

47. Watch Biden's Interview with Wolf Blitzer (I posted it here). A lot more

comprehensive info on Pakistan than we've been receiving.

[bobthedrummer]

48. Why just look at the turnout in those totalitarian one party "elections"

it's really a "sight to behold"-and look at the similarities between Pakistan and the BFEE, two unelected installed criminal administrations that overwrote and overruled their Constitutions...

IMPEACH GEORGE WALKER BUSH NEXT!

[bvar22]

49. Choices?..Of course we will have a choice in 2008!

It has already been decided.

America will be free to choose between:

1) A Pro-War, Pro Armaments Industry, Pro Military Expansion, Pro-Free Trade, Pro Outsourcing, Pro FOR PROFIT HealthCare, AntiLABOR, ProUnitary Executive Democrat

OR

2)A Pro-War, Pro Armaments Industry, Pro Military Expansion, Pro-Free Trade, Pro Outsourcing, Pro FOR PROFIT HealthCare, AntiLABOR, ProUnitary Executive Republican.

Ain't our democracy grand!!!!




The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[Cha]

50. Our "rulers" are cornered

rats and they aren't going to say shit to help Liberals even if they are in Pakistan.

They're studying what's going on over there and if it all works out for pervez then they got a plan for their "State of Emergency".

[ljm2002]

51. Well, they sort of love elections...

...except, not so much when it's Iranians voting in the ayatollahs, or Chileans or Venezualans voting in leftist leaders -- then, they just *hate* elections.

Funny that.

[scarletwoman]

52. yes, but elections don't really BOTHER them. They just negate the results, no problem.

After all, mostly the rabble goes along with the program. On the rare occasions where the rabble disappoints, the results are easily "corrected" when you hold all the power.

sw

[provis99]

54. at least Musharraf isn't a real dictator, like Chavez

:sarcasm:

[malaise]

55. Benazir under house arrest again

Heard her on BBC calling for Mushie to resign. She said he's locking up liberals and has 500 police around her house who should be looking for Osama. Bubye Mushie - the writing is on the wall.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7091930.stm

I am now laughing at the situation since it is clear that the US and UK want Benazir in charge. We're being played big time.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

56. K & R. All true and people need to hear it. nt.

[Perry Logan]

58. The 2006 elections prove the OP wrong.

[Lilith Velkor]

77. !!!

:rofl:

[scarletwoman]

84. Yeah, cracked me up, too!

:rofl:

[cali]

59. I love simple!

It makes life so much easier. You don't actually have to know any history, or trouble yourself with complexity.

[scarletwoman]

61. No war but the class war, Cali, no war but the class war. It IS simple. (nt)

[leaninglib]

60. I hope they are learning that democracy doesn't work for all cultures.

After all, there is a difference between putting a man on the moon and beheading the infidel.

[mod mom]

62. On NPR a reporter said that their intel agency controls the elections, so not to expect

fairness.

Bush just wants to be able to say , see they had elections and Musharref won.

[tom_paine]

63. The sad, sad truth.

n/t

[scarletwoman]

79. Truth is never sad -- truth is empowering! Truth is an opportunity to form coherent strategies!

You cannot change what is until you see it clearly. We should celebrate the recognition of the truth; facing the truth is a liberation from the illusions that chain us. Truth DOES set us free!

My apologies, dear tom_paine -- I got carried away. Please do not construe my post as directed to you personally. You have been a tireless and devoted truth-teller here on DU for many many years; I have nothing but the greatest respect and love for you. :hug:

sw

[blm]

66. Yep - put Puppets like McAuliffe in charge of securing election process for Dems and

what happens?

INCREASED election fraud from the RNC, above and beyond the theft of the 2000 election.

[mmonk]

67. Unfortunately, a lot of people in this country equate elections

with democracy (if you have them, you have democracy no matter what). That's the myth many tyrants rely on. Democracy and freedom are directly linked to a country's constitution and laws. Any country, free or otherwise can have elections. I guess that's how we are in this fix now in that people confuse elections with democracy and freedom and can be fooled into thinking a vote matters when their rights aren't guaranteed.

[scarletwoman]

86. Well, that's pretty much what my OP is about -- trying to get people to stop being fooled.

We need to build our politics around our class interests, not knee-jerk party identification.

sw

[redqueen]

68. SCOTUS!

SCOTUS!

[Hidden Stillness]

71. If They Were Arrested, They "Must Be" Terrorists--There, and Here!

A few interesting points about Pakistan: First, before the genius rich boy Bush (or President Cheney, whoever it was) got us mixed up with the "terra-ist freedom fighter" Musharraf, Pakistan was on the list of terrorist States, itself terrorist, and sponsor of others. The people of Pakistan legally elected Benazir Bhutto Prime Minister, I think it was like 1988 (?, something like that), then years later Musharraf and the military launched a coup, charged Bhutto with "corruption" along with other opposition legislators, and tried her after she fled the country. This is a typical tack, and may not even be true--remember the politician in Islamic Indonesia, I think it was, charged with "homosexuality" and put to death, even though there was no evidence of any such thing.

After the previous progress, however slight, that Benazir Bhutto and the civic-democracy reformers were starting to make against the Medieval clerics, and the war lords running their own territories, Musharraf started to crack down on all freedoms. "Honor killings" and torture of women returned, and the Musharraf police and military were complicit, refusing to prosecute anything. There was a scandal a few years ago when ritual rape returned, and Musharraf went on a speaking tour of the U.S., and made "jokes" about it and about women. Feminist lawyers were jailed and persecuted, not protected from death threats, etc., and murdered. A Supreme Court Justice who had made a ruling against Musharraf was removed from the bench. Then the protests really began. Although they were characterized as a "state of emergency" to crack down on "violent" "extremist" "threats to order," there was actually a huge percentage of lawyers among the protesters, and those who wanted to regain the progress toward civic democracy, and modern law. They were not "fundamentalists" or "terrorists," but people who wanted modern democracy. The Supreme Court ruled against Musharraf, and the judge was reinstated.

The media has now been closed down. When Bhutto returned recently, after Musharraf assured her that there would be a power-sharing agreement worked out, there was a huge explosion at one of her group's rallies, and oddly--even more oddly, this has not been reported on "American" media--people said the streetlights went out just before the explosion, so no one could see, then went back on after; many blame Musharraf for the explosion, which killed many people. Bhutto is still under house arrest.

Of course, our dear terra-ist fightin' "friend" has been hiding Osama bin Laden in the mountain area of norhtwest Pakistan for some years now, will not seach there, and Bushie will not bother either...Very strange... For all the silly people even here on DU, who think that, well, a violent military dictator is better than Islamic fundamentalists, keep in mind that the people being imprisoned are those who want a modern, Western-style secular democracy with rights and freedoms. It is presented by the corporate media, however, as a valiant struggle by Bush's friend Musharraf against "the Islamic threat," when it is no such thing. First, last and always--the controlled propaganda.

[scarletwoman]

75. Thank you for the wonderfully informative post! Very clear overview -- I hope lots of folks read it!

For all the silly people even here on DU, who think that, well, a violent military dictator is better than Islamic fundamentalists, keep in mind that the people being imprisoned are those who want a modern, Western-style secular democracy with rights and freedomsIt is presented by the corporate media, however, as a valiant struggle by Bush's friend Musharraf against "the Islamic threat," when it is no such thing. First, last and always--the controlled propaganda.

And guess whose candidates, political parties and votes will be suppressed in the promised January "election"...

There is no democracy without the rule of Law applied equally to all; the ruling class and citizens alike. Elections mean nothing without a free, informed, and institutionally supported civil society.

Thank you again for your well-written post.

sw

[starmaker]

72. kick n/t

[AuntPatsy]

73. So true, this is important to take notice of and not let it be ignored.

Didn't our esteem leader say recently that what is going on there is worthy of those that begun it?

[Myrina]

74. .. .as it was with the Iraqi Purple Fingers ...

... none of those people had Thing #1 to do with the 'candidates' that were foisted upon them, had little to no education on what a 'participatory democracy' was supposed to mean, and Goddess only knows what the actual vote counts were ... but hey, some of them got to VOTE (whatever that means?).

Excellent post, and yes, we should ALL take heed for the dog and pony snake oil show is getting ready to criss-cross America again, and soon. :(

[scarletwoman]

78. Thank you! And I LOVE your phrase: "dog and pony snake oil show" -- Word!

Someone in a different thread a few days ago made an excellent point:

What we are seeing..., is people waking up -- and that is why some of us are going... fuck party... give me class interest.

sw