Question: Why does it seem blacks are not sympathetic to discrimination of gays?

[Hamlette]

This may have been talked about here before and I've just not seen it.

We all know its true although it might not be pc to talk about it.

I don't expect them to jump on the band wagon for gay rights just because they are discrimintated against but I do sort of expect more empathy.

What gives?

[Clark2008]

1. Because many of them belong to churches who preach against

homosexuality.

I may be wrong, but that's what I've heard from black community leaders.

[htuttle]

3. I agree -- it's from the churches

[Hamlette]

4. great, so if you're Christian, you hate? Why don't the "community leaders"

tell the churches to back off? It seems it is deeper than that. Are the "black churches" becoming more conservative/bigoted?

[htuttle]

5. From what I've seen locally,

...where most predominantly black churches could be seen as leaning liberal 30 years ago, there are more and more that now lean conservative. In fact, here in 'liberal Madison', I'm not sure any of the churches with mostly black members can still be considered 'liberal'. Now, they aren't quite Hannity-spewing conservatives, either, but on social matters, they do tend to lean more right than left now.

[zonkers]

41. I agree. Church related.

[jobycom]

2. Because all "blacks" aren't the same?

:shrug:

Why does it seem whites aren't sympathetic to gays? Why does it seem blondes aren't sympathetic to gays?

[GOTV]

91. The OP didn't say "all" n/t

[Bucky]

109. Nor did the OP say "some". The OP said "blacks" w/o qualification.

The meaning is clear: the OP was implying that a hefty majority hold these views.

[donheld]

116. I agree. It's too broad.

We do have quite a lot of good support from many blacks.

[butterfly77]

102. Or why isn't the question asking...

why aren't Asians,hispanics,Arabs or any other types of people

[Meat Stew]

6. WOW

Another gay related thread.

[Dora]

7. So hide them if you're not interested. n/t

[jonnyblitz]

8. you sure seem to enjoy posting on them for some reason.

I have been reading your brilliant commentary all morning! :sarcasm: :puke:

[Meat Stew]

10. Well thankyou very much

You have a great day

[Tyo]

15. Ahh, yeah...

Another gay-related thread. Are you just making an observation or is there supposed to be a point in there somewhere?

[Vanje]

16. And Wow

Another Meat Stew post in it

[LostinVA]

29. And wow -- he's STILL here

As transparent as clean plate glass.

[uppityperson]

44. not any more

[Warren DeMontague]

57. Meat Stew?

More like frozen pizza.

[Bluebear]

22. Wow! Another "Meat Stew" posting in a gay-related thread!

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

24. Look at all the hail!

[AspenRose]

27. !

:rofl: you crack me up!

[myrna minx]

60. LOL!

:spray:

[foreigncorrespondent]

40. HEY...

...I am still waiting for your so called hail storm. My brolly is already up.

And yes, it is another gay related thread, do you have a problem with that?

[terrya]

58. You can leave if it's bothering you so much,

Or as the other poster mentioned, the hide thread feature works very well.

Or you can just leave. No one is forcing you to stay here.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

63. Good bye, Meat Stew. We hardly knew ye.

[treestar]

68. Don't complain

It could have been another Anna Nicole thread!

[Az]

76. Gosh.... maybe they are angry for some reason?

:shrug:

[dysfunctional press]

86. WOW is right- with a name like "meat stew"...

you really have to wonder about the homophobia he displays...

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Connie_Corleone]

21. Majority hunh?

Please, bloviate some more about how we're so close minded and don't live "Christian values", whatever those are.

While you're at it, can you please give me, my family, my friends...hell...everyone I know a sex education since we're so hung up about sex.

[AspenRose]

28. Good Lord, that's offensive.

x(

[Bluebear]

35. Oh my goodness. nt

[Beelzebud]

37. Did you get your views from a Stormfront pamphlet or what?

Fucking racist asshole...

[Midlodemocrat]

65. IMO - Your post is horrific and offensive.

[sniffa]

89. i missed it

*sigh*

[myrna minx]

66. OK, I'm stunned that this racist crap is allowed to be posted here.

:grr:

[Beelzebud]

69. I am too, this racist fucking asshole needs to be tombstoned ASAP.

That is some real right-wing racist as hell, fly a confederate flag, proud to be bigot, shit.

From Tennessee no less...

[myrna minx]

74. UGH!

:banghead:

[Solly Mack]

81. And all that ignorance squeezed into a single paragraph

I'm in awe.

[Smarmie Doofus]

11. I think it's perception. In my experience they are neither....

more or less sympathetic.What do you base your assessment on?

Most major nat'l African American leaders( Mrs. King, Jesse Jackson) have been outspokenly supportive of gay issues; more so, I'd say, than non-AA leaders.

OTOH,there is a certain vehemence in the homophobia of hip-hop culture. One rarely sees the equal of this in the larger culture. It's hard to sort that out. Lot's of variables: it's overwhelmingly male dominated; overwhelmingly sexist and essentially a working class phenomenon. The relative youth of the denizens of HH and rap culture doesn't help.

But don't let this blind you to the larger picture.Older and better educated AA's are quite often sympathetic to discrimination against gays.

[youthere]

12. That's interesting...

I've never thought about it before.

[JVS]

13. .

:popcorn:

[yardwork]

14. I know many African Americans who strongly support gay rights

I know of African American churches that are led by lesbians and gay ministers, and open to anyone in their communities, black or white, gay or straight.

Those in power always seek to get minorities to fight among themselves. It weakens all of us and helps those in power stay that way. Don't let them get away with it.

edit - spelling

[bliss_eternal]

117. Excellent post...!

:applause:

Quote:
Those in power always seek to get minorities to fight among themselves. It weakens all of us and helps those in power stay that way. Don't let them get away with it.

[ellacott]

17. I think it would be great to get perspectives from African Americans

Many of the answers are way off base and a little offensive.

I think race is still the issue regardless of sexual orientation. Whites don't have a monopoly on gay people. There are many gay blacks. Many of you have inaccurately attritubuted it to the Christian community but it's in this community where there is a large concentration of gay blacks.

Rap music can not be used as a gauge because rap music is not the predominant music in the black community. This is the media that's giving you that perception. 70% of rap music is purchased by whites.

I would say that many white gays aren't sympathetic of black issues. That would lead to a lot of discussion but I'm not sure my point could be proven or disproven.

I do think it's good to have the discussion.

[Poll_Blind]

18. "We all know its true although it might not be pc to talk about it."

  I do not know that this is true. I have not been exposed to whatever experiences or media you have. Can you help me understand what I might have been missing?

  When a sweeping generalization like this, about an entire group of people, is made my suspicions are raised. But equally, or more so, my curiosity.

  I live in a very open-minded but also very White and Latino town. Blacks do not make up a large percentage of the population here and the black friend of mine in town is as open-minded as I am about the uncontroversial nature of homosexuality.

  Can you fill those of us who might not be as knowledgeable of this situation in? I can't be the only one.

PB

[KittyWampus]

123. Catwoman, a black DU'er once provided links to stories about homophobia in the black communities

across the country. It didn't make sense to me that it would more prevalent. Wouldn't a group that had been treated like crap be MORE sympathetic to another group experiencing oppression?

It's partly coming from the church, politicians and to a certain extent from humans need to always have a scapegoat.

I'm not going to get involved in a lengthy discussion of this, but it's worth noting that the extent of homophobia amongst blacks has been seena as a negative influence on how some black gay people deal with admitting their orientation and also AIDs prevention.

Here's something I just found on a quick google search just now:

"Various authors have noted that anti-gay attitudes and sentiments may be even more pronounced among African Americans. For example, Fullilove and Fullilove (1999) have commented that "homophobia is very common in the African American community" (p. 1,123). That sentiment was echoed by Kennamer, Honnold, Bradford, and Hendricks (2000), who reported that homophobia appears to be "a major part of the African American culture, driven by both religious forces and political forces" (p. 522)."

[twilight_sailing]

19. Prejudice against gay is not a racial issue.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

20. Why is it people always judge black people as a whole...

based on one guy?

[Connie_Corleone]

32. Because we all think alike.

:sarcasm:

[AspenRose]

45. And we all look alike, and we all know each other, too!

:sarcasm: :banghead:

[ThomCat]

50. Because it's a rule of prejudice.

"We" are individuals, while "they" are a monolithic group.

[Bluebear]

23. Gays have enjoyed extremely strong support from African-Americans...

However a vocal group of black ministers have indeed been very vocal against gay rights, no doubt couched in their Biblical world view.

[Bucky]

84. That's the right point. A better question is why gays don't get better support from whites.

I think you'll find the support levels in about equal number.

[skipos]

115. Actually, I don't find the support levels to be equal

in all of the polls I have seen. Do you have links to anything that backs your claim up?

Most of the polls I have seen look like this...

"Opposition to gay marriage has decreased significantly since the mid-1990s, from 65% in 1996. But notably, the shift in favor of gay marriage is seen in nearly every segment of society with two significant exceptions ­ white evangelical Protestants and African-Americans. While a higher percentage of white evangelicals (83%) than blacks (64%) oppose legalizing gay marriages, neither group has changed its views significantly since 1996."

http://pewforum.org/docs/index.php?DocID=26

[bullwinkle428]

88. Bushco focused a great deal of time and effort into pushing their

anti-gay marriage agenda onto lots of black churches in 2004...just another element in their divide-and-conquer strategy.

[Katherine Brengle]

25. There is a lot of stigma on homosexuality in the black community.

It likely stems from a combination of religion and a the fact that a lot of oppressed peoples find they need something to hate - not stirring the pot, not judging, just extrapolating from history - I think when you are down, you either fight back with love or with hate - some people feel better (or think they do) when they feel superior to others.

[Unvanguard]

26. There are plenty of blacks who are sympathetic.

But the difference in proportions with regard to support for gay rights has to do with religion.

[Connie_Corleone]

30. I'm just fascinated by all the psychobabble opinions about us.

How many friggin' times do I have to write on DU that black people are not a monolithic group?!!!! :mad:

There are segments who don't like gay people. There are segments who don't give a damn whether you're gay or straight.

That's just the way human beings are. It's not a racial issue.

[Katherine Brengle]

33. I think it's because...

people tend to expect one minority group to support another. It may not exactly make sense (though I think in some ways it does) but I think that's the logic.

[ellacott]

42. You are so off base on both of your posts

First,the point that the original poster made is not true.

AND for the last time. WE ARE NOT ALL A MONOLITH!!!!!!!!!

What's this about one minority group supporting another? I don't remember seeing huge gay support for many of the issues that relate to african americans.

[ThomCat]

75. You're right. No group is monolithic.

But I do see (from personal experience) that those people who are involved in civil rights activism, organizing, and outreach tend to cross over those lines. I'm a big cheerleader for every branch of the civil rights movement supporting all the others, and I see a lot of support for this.

But, admittedly, that doesn't apply to our communities as a whole.

[Katherine Brengle]

83. Jesus H. F*ing Christ --

I never said anything close to what you are claiming. Did I say somewhere that I think ALL blacks are or should be of one mind???

Get a grip.

And no, I was not off-base when I said that from a historical standpoint, oppressed minorities either tend to support one another or veer violently in the opposite direction. I did not say that they do this AS ONE GROUP.

[Beelzebud]

36. I find in interesting that the OP never considers there are black people that are gay...

[Connie_Corleone]

43. Yep. And here in Cincinnati, there are white gay people who

don't want to have anything to do with black gays. It's a big problem here and probably around the country.

[Beelzebud]

49. I'm sure it is. Racism is everywhere, even in places we think of as progressive.

Gay people are not immune from racism, even if some of them like to pretend they are.

[GOTV]

92. What the OP says clearly leaves open the possibility that some blacks are gay n/t

[Beelzebud]

97. No it doesn't. Quote me the sentence that implies that.

[seriousstan]

108. That is an absurd deduction. I know of several books that deal with this subject.

ALL written by gay blacks that want to address this problem. Or are you on the D/L?

[KittyWampus]

124. And black people that are gay are less likely to admit openly they are. This negatively effects AIDs

prevention.

See study by Kennamer, Honnold, Bradford, and Hendricks.

[GOTV]

90. When you imagine statements that weren't made....

... there will be no end to the number of times you need to correct them.

Some polls have shows that support for gay marriage, for example, is lower among blacks than among whites.

[Beelzebud]

31. Oh please. In the words of Coretta Scott King:

Coretta Scott King, speaking four days before the 30th anniversary of her husband's assassination, said Tuesday the civil rights leader's memory demanded a strong stand for gay and lesbian rights.

"I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice," she said. "But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said, 'Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.'" "I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream to make room at the table of brother- and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people." - Reuters, March 31, 1998.

Speaking before nearly 600 people at the Palmer House Hilton Hotel,
Coretta Scott King, the wife of the late Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Tuesday called on the civil rights community to join in the struggle against homophobia and anti-gay bias.

"Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood," King stated. "This sets the stage for further repression and violence that spread all too easily to victimize the next minority group." - Chicago Defender, April 1, 1998, front page.

"We are all tied together in a single garment of destiny . . . I can never be what I ought to be until you are allowed to be what you ought to be," she said, quoting her husband. "I've always felt that homophobic attitudes and policies were unjust and unworthy of a free society and must be opposed by all Americans who believe in democracy, Chicago Sun Times, April 1, 1998, p.18.

"For many years now, I have been an outspoken supporter of civil and human rights for gay and lesbian people," King said at the 25th Anniversary Luncheon for the Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund.... "Gays and lesbians stood up for civil rights in Montgomery, Selma, in Albany, Ga. and St. Augustine, Fla., and many other campaigns of the Civil Rights Movement," she said. "Many of these courageous men and women were fighting for my freedom at a time when they could find few voices for their own, and I salute their contributions." - Chicago Tribune, April 1, 1998, sec.2, p.4.

"For many years now, I have been an outspoken supporter of civil and human rights for gay and lesbian people," King said at the 25th Anniversary Luncheon for the Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund.... "Gays and lesbians stood up for civil rights in Montgomery, Selma, in Albany, Ga. and St. Augustine, Fla., and many other campaigns of the Civil Rights Movement," she said. "Many of these courageous men and women were fighting for my freedom at a time when they could find few voices for their own, and I salute their contributions." - Chicago Tribune, April 1, 1998, sec.2, p.4.

If I didn't know any better I'd say the OP here was racist as hell. There are black people right here at DU! Shocking isn't it?

Here's something that will REALLY blow your mind: There are black gay people! OMG!!!

[KittyWampus]

125. Again, and those black gays are less likely to come out and thus less likely to practise safe sex

and thus more at danger of getting/spreading AIDs.

[KittyWampus]

127. MLK's daughter goes on the road protesting gay rights-

"The sight of the youngest daughter of Martin Luther King Jr. standing at her father's gravesite Saturday with thousands of demonstrators to denounce same-sex marriage was painful. The Rev. Bernice King and march organizers deliberately chose King's resting place in Atlanta to imply that he would have stood with them."

From San Francisco newspaper Dec. 2004

[Warren DeMontague]

34. There's a lot of white people who are homophobes, too.

I don't think it's fair to lump all "blacks" into a group. If anything, I think this issue breaks down on gender and age demographics, most of all- which is encouraging, because younger people are more inclined to not think being gay is that big of a deal.

So gradually, with any luck, homophobia is going the way of the dinosaurs.

[pink-o]

38. Don't you think that's too much of a blanket statement?

..African Americans, like everyone else, can have gay people in their families and communities. I know gays of every ethnicity, because sexual orientation is genetically encoded in all of us--it's something we as humans are born with. And since, last I looked, African Americans are human, then I would expect 15 percent of their community to be gay just like every other community on Earth.

So are you saying that African Americans would disown their gay family members more than Whites, Latinos or Asians? I haven't seen any evidence of that.

And yes, the church has been the foundation of African American families and the centre for civil rights battles--and I find many African Americans far more conservative than I am--but that doesn't mean they instantly condemn gays. At least not where I live--the most prominent African American church here is Glide Memorial and they've always been totally inclusive. They do amazing work for everyone, not just their own!

[Beelzebud]

39. The more I think about this thread the more it's pissing me off.

Time for a DU break, I think.

This is just flat-out racist. You paint the entire African American community with a broad brush here, completely ignoring the fact that there are many gay people that ARE black...

[ellacott]

48. It's pissing me off too

But I'm in the mood to give some enlightenment.

[Zuiderelle]

46. Question: Why does it seem whites are not sympathetic to discrimination of gays?

Question: Why does it seem straights are not sympathetic to discrimination of gays?

Question: Why does it seem Americans are not sympathetic to discrimination of gays?

Question: Why does it seem Christians are not sympathetic to discrimination of gays?

All of these are generalizations. More importantly, why do most Americans not support gay equality? I'm less concerned about the number of African Americans who don't support it than I am about white Americans who don't support it.

Idiotic question.

[Jonathan50]

47. White male here, so I know my opinion doesn't count for much on this issue.

I'm heterosexual too :)

A lot of people of every color still think that homosexuality is a choice.

For those who are discriminated against due to skin color I think there is a tendency to think that homosexuals don't have it so bad since they can "stay in the closet" and hence avoid overt discrimination. People of other than the majority skin color don't have that choice.

Notice that I used the phrase "I think", this is just my personal opinion.

[ellacott]

53. Your assuming that the question posed by the original poster is correct

big mistake.

[Connie_Corleone]

51. SHHH!!! I see black gay people!

[ScreamingMeemie]

55. Only they don't know they're black gay people...

unless someone tells them. /sarcasm. :thumbsup:

[Beelzebud]

56. I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you! Whodathunkit?

[gollygee]

52. Is this about the basketball player?

He's just one guy. I don't think it's fair to make him a spokesperson for all black men.

[ThomCat]

54. That depends on who you talk to.

I get far more support from my "Family by choice" than from my biological family. They're black (I'm the "white sheep" of the family). My being gay has never been an issue to any of them. And I know for a fact that they stand up for other gay people too.

Many black churches have been openly hostile, but that's a separate issue.

[ScreamingMeemie]

59. "We all know its true although it might not be pc to talk about it."

Here in Metro Detroit I don't know that as a truth. Here we tend to be a mixed bag. We have racists...we have homophobes. We have "Christians" who do everything imaginable to prove they are not. We have *gasp* black gay men and lesbians even; we might even have black bisexuals, which I imagine could be mind blowing. Imagine.

I think it is usually not a very good thing to pigeonhole a group of people. It usually backfires, right in the face of the truly deserving.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

61. African Americans vote overwhelmingly Democratic.

By about a 9 to 1 margin. Whereas with white people it's, what, 4 to 6? That alone would indicate to me that African Americans are far more likely to support gay rights than whites.

It seems to me we've got an issue of projection.

[GOTV]

62. Wasn't it Colin Powell...

... in defending anti-gay military policies said that the difference between discriminating against someone due to their race was more wrong because it's just skin color where with homosexuals, there's specific behavior involved.

I think it's a poor argument, but it's an argument I heard made. I don't have any idea if it's widespread.

[ellacott]

70. I guess if Colin Powell said then that's the proof

that all black people must think like this. :shrug:

[Beelzebud]

71. Yeah forget those quotes from Coretta King that I posted.

Colin Powell is the spokesman for the african american community.

Ignore the fact that he's a Conservative Republican Military FREAK. His words must speak for all people of his race.

[GOTV]

87. I didn't say anything like that. I guess you didn't have time to read my WHOLE post

You must be very busy.

[Marie26]

64. There's so many strawmen

in that post, it's hard to know where to start.

[treestar]

67. Why does it seem that way?

Maybe it's not so.

There must be a variety of opinions regarding any group. Then people are going to put their own oppressed group first. It would take someone who is both black and gay to explain and even then you'd get different answers.

[Virginia Dare]

72. You know, I asked that question some time ago...

it seemed to me that the same logic was being applied toward denial of civil rights to homosexuals as was applied to minorities fifty years ago, and I wondered by the African-American community seemed to be going along with it.

The basic answer I got was that it was a cultural thing, very much ingrained by the church.

[Beelzebud]

73. You assume the premise is true... Not all blacks think in lock-step...

Very pretentious of so many to assume to speak for an entire race of people.

[Virginia Dare]

77. I was soliciting opinions and I got them...

nobody suggested the whole community was in lock step.

[ellacott]

80. Of Course they did

They even let us know that Colin Powell was not supportive.:sarcasm:

[AngryAmish]

78. Why is it that virtually no culture on earth is sympathetic to gays?

There are laws against discrimination in small parts of the US and many places in Europe. Maybe also Australia.

Russia? Not gay friendly. India, China, all of Africa, South America? As far as I know all these places are not nearly as gay-friendly as the US and Europe.

Face it: Tolerance of gay people only exists in very few societies on Earth. We need to work to expand it.

[Bunny]

79. Well, as someone whose "issue" is women's rights, I've observed,

with grim resignation, the recent arguments over "articulate" and "snickers". It's sad for me to see some of the same black and/or GLBT posters who previously pooh-poohed women's issues yell long and loud about their issue. I think I've been pretty unwavering in my support for minority and GLBT rights, I had hoped that more of those folks would feel the same about mine. We all arrive at and exist at different levels of conscienceness, I guess.

[ThomCat]

82. I agree that we need to support all civil rights

movements. More of us need to cross those boarders.

[Bunny]

93. As always, Thom, you are the voice of reason.

I really appreciate your opinions and comments. :hug:

[belladonna]

85. Broad brush much?

I know what you're talking about to a certain extent, but please don't use such a broad brush on this issue. My fiance is one of those "blacks" and he's extremely sympathetic to the gay right's movement. The "blacks" are just like anyone else, you have some who are homophobic, some who aren't. No different than those "whites", really :shrug:

[theboss]

94. Once again, we as a society look to Snopp and Dre for wisdom

Now understand this my nigga Dre can't be touched
Luke's bendin over, so Luke's gettin fucked, busta
Musta, thought I was sleazy
Or though I was a mark cause I used to hang with Eazy
Animosity, made ya speak but ya spoke
Ay yo Dre, whattup, check this nigga off loc
If it ain't another ho that I gots ta fuck with
Gap teeth in ya mouth so my dick's gots to fit
With my nuts on ya tonsils
While ya on stage rappin at your wack-ass concerts


Though...the more I think about this...why did they want rape Eazy-E?

I need to ponder this.

Or watch Season one of OZ again.

[theboss]

95. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I know I read that a majority of black voters....

...were against "gay marriage." But - apparently - a majority of all voters are against "gay marriage."

The few times I even seen this addressed with "black leaders" (whoever they may be), two issues come up:

1. This is not viewed as a civil rights issue. I don't know if that's because of the choice/nature debate inherent in the gay rights argument or simply a matter of protecting one's territory. But it's an issue.

2. Blacks in America attend church at a staggering rate. If you view gay rights as some sort of "moral" issue, it gets complicated.

[Catherine Vincent]

96. Not all blacks.

n/t

[CatWoman]

98. Hamlette, if I may

I don't know if you're aware that I'm a black woman.

That said, I've asked myself this very same question many times.

Black men seem, to me, to be the largest homophobic group I've encountered.

I must agree with the posters who say the problem, well, most of the problem lies in the church. Bush, with the help of retards like Don King, were on a mission prior to the last election to get as many black preachers as possible on their side. And they used that issue to do it.

I remember when Martin Luther King Jr.'s daughter, Bernice, led an anti gay marriage march here in Atlanta. That fucking blew my mind.

Her poor father taught forgiveness and acceptance, and what does she do? Heap scorn on homosexuals.

I just don't get it.

A personal encounter, right before Election 2004: one of the LAN administrators and I got into an argument about gay marriage. He's a straight, black man. He was going on and on about how it isn't right, blah, blah, blah, and I couldn't take it anymore. I responded, "How does what Tim and Tommy do in their personal lives affect YOUR quality of life?" He couldn't answer me.

I had a similar encounter with a black female coworker. Shocked me because I took her to be more level headed than that..

Final note: the HIV rate in the black community is alarming. Especially among black men. What am I to draw from that?

[JackBeck]

101. Thank you for sharing that, CatWoman.

Hopefully, Bernice learned something from her mother, as well, before she passed on.

As far as your last statement, the HIV rates in communities of color are alarming. In fact, the fast growing group of people being infected are African American women. I just returned from a four-state conference in Arkansas and all the local participants were put on notice and challenged to go to their places of worship, stand-up in the middle of a Sunday sermon, and ask "Why are we not talking about HIV?"

[CatWoman]

103. I work at the CDC

and one of our divisions deals exclusively with HIV.

I asked one of the project officers about the rate among AA men, as I couldn't believe it all came from infected needles.

She said bisexual men contribute towards it as well. And men who practice same-sex partners in prison.

As you are aware, a very large segment of the male black community is incarcerated.

[JackBeck]

104. Agreed.

And the high co-infection rate with HCV which is even more largely ignored.

[ruggerson]

110. That the homophobia you refer to

leaves many men out there on the "down low" who, in a less bigoted world, would not be having indiscriminate, unsafe sex outside of their unhappy hetero marriages, but would be in loving, supportive same sex relationships.

In a perfect world.

[Karenina]

114. Down low.

[Karenina]

99. How is it that Hamlettes are not sympathetic

to the ANGER some feel at being lumped together, as if they had NO INDIVIDUALITY, into some broad-brush monolith? Yes, dear. "YOU" all know it is true. Glenn and Rush told you so.

Yours is quit a bigoted OP. :puke:

[CatWoman]

100. K, I don't think so

I have to concur with Hamlette's observation.

[Karenina]

105. Ya know, Cat

Methinks those easily identifiable, organized, particularly fundie "groups" simply serve the purposes of TPTB (often receiving monetary benefits) and get M$M attention. In reality, I don't believe homophobia is any more widespread in the black community than it is in the white community or Asian community or Latino community in the U.S. (PLEASE note that AMERICAN cultural stipulation.)

The "issue" transcends "race."

I have a cousin in the grips of a fundie church, morbidly obese, who had 2 abortions and self-identifies as a lesbian. She is in a "covenant marriage" (which has "saved" her) with a "feeder" and voted for * TWICE because she could NEVER vote for a politician who believes in a woman's choice. I daresay there are MANY white DUers who confront the SAME cognitive dissonance in their families.

Same sex preference occurs EVERYWHERE in mammals. The cultural taboos are just that. However in terms of mixed-bag AMERICANS, I would be hard-pressed to declare them somehow "worse" in one group than another.

[ruggerson]

111. Public opinion polling

shows repeatedly that same sex marriage has markedly LESS support in the African American community than it does in the general population. African Americans hold, statistically, a far more negative and bigoted view of gay people than does the broader population.

Wish it weren't so, because I think blacks and gays should be natural allies, as Corretta Scott King bravely advocated, but the proof is in the pudding.

[Hamlette]

106. Thanks Cat...owe you...again

I stopped reading my own thread after the first few posts. I long ago gave up trying to prove who I am, especially to "strangers" on the net.

I'm a member of the most despised minority in America, worse than blacks, worse than gays. It taught me, or rather my family taught me, that I should NEVER do to others what is done to us. We always support the underdog, (to the point that we all hate team sports because it breaks our hearts to see anyone lose!). One of my most vivid memories is mom taking me out of school (something she NEVER did) and putting a black arm band on my arm to march in a civil rights march...circa early 1960s. It's the way I was raised.

I don't think my op was bigoted, it was intended as an observation. I've noticed it with blacks I know and with spokespersons in the black community. I don't know that I would say it was black men and not black women but maybe I've not paid enough attention. And maybe I've just not heard Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton speak out in favor of equal rights for gays. In fact, I have to admit the line that I remember from Obama's convention speech was the one about "gay friends in the red states." I think I remember it because I hoped it would be a sign things were changing.

Anyway, thanks Cat.

(P.S. There is some degree of irony in people who have no idea who I am scream about me being a vomit inducing bigot for making a generalization about people I don't know.)

[CatWoman]

107. I have 3 brothers

and each one is just as homophobic as Hardaway.

I try NEVER to bring my gay friends around them.

[ruggerson]

112. Men, generalizing, are more homophobic than women

but I wonder (and I have no proof of this, just speculation) if the bigotry of black males towards gay men might be related to the old saw that one minority group needs to step on another one in order to feel superior to SOMEONE and to feel somewhat empowered through that feeling of superiority. In American history, I think the English did it to the Germans, who then did it to the Irish who then did it to the Italians who then did it to the Jews. When one is feeling unempowered and discriminated against, the natural human instinct, as base as it may be, is to find another group hated more than your own and then loudly step on them.

[Hamlette]

119. there was an interesting discussion of this on Bill Maher just now

the guest, a black, gay, athelete, said "the dump on the people one rung lower than you" is "new" and he said the question you need to ask is who benefits but pitting one group against the other? Of course he meant that the power structure (old white guys) benefit. Think, if all of us oppressed types got together it would be curtains for the likes of Bush and Halliburton. So, they divide and conquer.

Not sure he's right but it's a better answer than I can come up with. He said the churches are involved and implied or said that the same power structure uses the black churches in its efforts to divide.

[Karenina]

113. HALLO, Hamlette!

This is an internet board. You've not made your presence known here long or loud enough for others to recognize your handle or "know" who you are despite your long-time membership. In the absence of that info and in the face of your sudden broad-brush generalizations, do you feel the umbrage taken unwarranted? Just wondering. :shrug:

[Hamlette]

118. I don't know why you need to know me better to discuss an issue.

My interest in DU is to discuss ideas and politics and find out what's going on and what people are thinking. Sometimes its to find answers to questions. This place is great for that.

I'm a private person, some would say shy. I've got nothing to hide but I don't think knowing me better makes my op more valid. I wasn't making a value judgment, I was making an observation.

I don't think I said anything out of line so in that sense I do find the umbrage unwarranted but I most certainly did not take it personally. I didn't say all blacks are homophobic. The discussion I had hoped to have here just took place on Real Time. Bill Maher asked his guest, a gay, black, former basketball (I think) player who just wrote a book (I don't remember his name) why blacks are anti-gay. The guest said: The question you have to ask is who benefits by pitting blacks against gays. It's not either of those two groups. He also mentioned the churches but said the churches are playing into the same power structure. It was really an interesting discussion. If you get a chance to see it, do.

[Karenina]

121. Hmmm... Well if you put it that way...

To be honest, after some of the overtly racist, sexist, homophobic "discussions" I've read here lately, the "they" as-a-monolith aspect of many posts is beginning to set my teeth on edge.

[Bonobo]

120. Jeez! Talk about blanket statements! Check yourself, Hamlette!

"Blacks" come in all shapes and flavors! Kinda like gay people. Go figure.

Guess heteros don't have the monopoly on prejudice after all.

[Hamlette]

128. I did check myself. I'm fine.

And, luckily for me, I got an answer to my question when Bill Maher asked the very same question to his guest, John Amaechi, last night. Incidently, the guest didn't tell Bill to check himself, he answered the legitimate question with a well thought out answer.

[ecstatic]

122. At the end of the day, actions speak louder than words

Besides Tim Hardaway, who are the vocal anti-gay blacks that you are referring to?

African Americans are allegedly the most religious, the most homophobic, the most anti-abortion, the most sexist yada yada yada... But regardless of those broad brushes, who do we vote for? Right, the party that--at least is supposed to be--working for equal rights for all... and working to ensure that women maintain their right to choose.

[leftofthedial]

126. I dunno

maybe it's because they post in GD