I am sick and tired of dealing with technical support

[cboy4]

people who speak broken, broken English.

I mean I just called DISH Network for satellite TV tech support, and I could not understand the first employee who attempted to help me at all.

So another employees came on the line (of course I had to explain all of the problems over again). And he was just as bad. It got to the point where I had him spell certain words so I could understand what in the hell he was saying. He couldn't help me.

So then he put his supervisor on the phone. She also spoke in broken English, but I was able to understand just about everything she said by listening very, very closely.

Sorry, but there are certain jobs that immigrants are not qualified to work -- and those are phone jobs. They can do everything else, but on the phone, my hearing cannot attempt to at least read lips.

Yea, I know I'm cranky and sound like what a freeper (or Lou Dobbs, etc.) would complain about.

But you know what? When you call tech support about a problem -- especially a reoccurring problem...I don't feel like dealing with people who speak in broken English. It's so infuriating.

Are these companies hiring these employees because they can pay them less? I suspect so, as I've seen the stories about the call centers in India.

I think it's outrageous, and I know I'm not the only one who's pissed off about the situation.

I bet you have to speak perfect English to work as a 9-1-1 dispatcher, ha?

[Enrique]

1. cancel the service and tell them that's why you cancelled

I've done that a couple of times.

[cboy4]

2. Before you cancelled, did they try to smooth things

over and offer an explanation, etc.

Or were they like....oh well?

[cuke]

3. Maybe you should speak to more people with accents

You can get used to it, and the world is changing. It's incredible that these people are learning a second language while Americans seem to have trouble underastanding just one, and yet for some reason, they're the ones who have a problem.

[cboy4]

8. Don't be condescending to me, okay dude?

I can get by with broken English at the convenience store, or at other places of business.

But when I need specific step by step information to solve a problem over the phone, and I can't understand it, then my problem doesn't get fixed.

And that's unacceptable. I pay $100 a month of satellite TV, and I expect someone to help me. Someone I can understand.

[cuke]

13. Not condensceding. It's sincere advice

The world is changing. Just wait until you have to go into a hospital where many nurses these days are foreign born and educateed. Then you'll wish you took my advice

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cuke]

17. The difference between a thick accent and an understandable one

is in your ears.

And I said nothing about whether you welcome them or not. I said nothing about racism or xenophobia or outsourcing or economics or anything else.

It's just a fact that the more you do it, the better you'll get.

[Book Lover]

41. I was with you until I read this post

For one thing, on occasion I have *been* the one with the too-thick accent. I also worked at JFK a lifetime ago, and regularly spoke with folks trying their best to speak English, some for the first time, with a phrasebook in their hands. They were occasionally unintelligible.

[cuke]

71. Sure, it happens

Some people are unintelligible. However, it's not as if everyone who works in these overseas call centers is unintelligible. I'm as much a consumer as anyone else here, and I have similar experiences, so I do understand the frustration, but I don't see this as anything much different than any other complaint about customer service, either based overseas or here in the states. If you like, I'm sure you could think of examples of bad customer service from banks, telephone companies, etc that involves uninteligible rules.

For example, about a year ago I called my mom's Long Term Health Insurance provider to see if they would cover in home care for my mom. I just learned that their denial was inappropriate screwing me out of a years worth of in home care for my mother and as a result, I had to provide that care making me unable to work for the last year.

Or I could tell you about how the bank screwed up when they set up my mom's trust account, leaving her money unavailable for weeks.

I have several similar stories (ever try to get help from the govt?), none of which involve people with accents.

The only difference between this and any other customer service complaint is that his one involves people with accents.

[cboy4]

75. The bottom line is you were able to understand the

position of the insurance provider.

Imagine how frustrating it would be to talk to someone about in home care for your mother and not being able to understand what the hell they were trying to explain to you.

That's my point.

[cuke]

78. Actually, I didn't understand the position of the provider

all I understood was that they were denying coverage. I had to hire a lawyer to figure it out.

"Imagine how frustrating it would be to talk to someone about in home care for your mother and not being able to understand what the hell they were trying to explain to you."

When in such a situation, I would ask for a supervisor who are generally more understandable. If that doesn't work, I would ask for *their* supervisor. At each step I would explain that it's because I am having problems understanding their accent. I have trouble believing that there would be no one at the call center able to speak intelligible English. If you make yourself a nuisance, they will want to get rid of you, and if you make it clear that the best way to get rid of you is to put someone on the phone who can speak English well, they will find that intelligble colleague

Of course, you SHOULDN'T have to do this. We shouldn't have to do lots of things. And I know it's frustrating. I've been there. As a whole, customer service sucks. That's because it's a cost center and not a profit center. Customer service provided by american born speakers of english sucks just as much.

[cboy4]

81. Well cuke, you're arguing apple and oranges. We can

agree that customer service can be frustrating, regardless of who's giving you the runaround.

I'm talking specifically about those who cannot articulate whatever they wish to convey is an understandable fashion due to a heavy foreign accent.

[cuke]

85. I understand that, and I do agree with your main point

People should be able to do the job they were hired to do. I also understand the frustration and I don't think you're a bad person or anything like that. I just think your "frame" could be improved. I see it as part of a much larger pattern.

And I understand why you thought (think?) I was being snarky. I can be abrupt sometimes, but I am sincere in suggesting you try to adapt to it. The world is changing and I don't see this change slowing down. If you should have the misfortune to end up in a hospital, or have a loved one there, an inability to understand think accents will almost certainly be of benefit to you

[silverojo]

56. Not everyone is as perfect as you,

And as able to understand every thick accent in the world. We all bow to your greatness. :sarcasm:

[cuke]

74. I realize that

but you could at least try

[Skittles]

25. you don't get it

accents are one thing - bad, BAD English is another. I talk with people in 17 different countries - are you suggesting I learn 17 languages??? Supposedly a requirement for their employement is SPEAKING ENGLISH. Reading a script - badly - is NOT "speaking English".

[cuke]

29. No, you're not getting it

It's not that hard. I've dealt with costumer service and I have had some trouble at times. But never that level of difficulty. Ask to speak to a supervisor. They usually have a lighter accent.

I think we all could do a better job on this. Americans are notorious for not knowing 2nd languages and thinking others should adapt to us.

The world is changing. America's dominance is not what it used to be, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. The developing world is....well, developing.

The world is changing. It's not always going to adapt to us. Sometimes, we're going to be the ones that have to adapt.

[Skittles]

31. LOL

are you kidding? I am not talking about tech support, I'm talking about teams that were OUTSOURCED to piece of SHIT teams who half the time have NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE DOING. We keep skeleton crews here who have to regularly clean up the messes.

[cuke]

35. DId you read the subject line of the OP?

Still think it's not about tech support?

IME, american tech support centers require clean up crews too. Gateway was infamous for their poor tech support, which used to be based in the US. Tech support has almost always suck because it's an expense center and not a profit center

[Skittles]

38. people don't have problems with only tech support

we have problems with ANY jobs that were pimped off to the lowest bidders

[cuke]

42. And the same principle applies

It's not like you're going to understand the Indian tech support person, but not the Indian nurse

[BurningDog]

60. You're wrong about this one.

Unless I fly to India to goto a hospital, an Indian nurse will be living in American and understands American culture and dialect. The only contact a tech in India gets with Americans is pissed off people on the phone.

I understand your point. I've had professors in school with accents so bad that I couldn't make out a word they said on the first day of class, but by the end of the year I understood them perfectly.

However, someone that has a job who's primary function is communicating with Americans in English should be able to do it effectively with the average customer and the company that is hiring them should have an interest in their ability to communicate effectively before hiring them.

How do you suggest the average ham and egger living in the middle of the country that lives by no immigrants get exposure to an Indian accent?

[cuke]

72. And you also make a very good point

"However, someone that has a job who's primary function is communicating with Americans in English should be able to do it effectively with the average customer and the company that is hiring them should have an interest in their ability to communicate effectively before hiring them."

You are absolutely right that they SHOULD be able to communicate effectively. I also think that americans who work in customer service for banks, insurance companies, etc SHOULD know their employers policies, rules and regulations. The police SHOULD be polite.

"How do you suggest the average ham and egger living in the middle of the country that lives by no immigrants get exposure to an Indian accent?"

Heh. You got me there. All I can think of is to maybe call customer service more often :-)

[silverojo]

57. It's all about the outsourcing

The reason they have thick accents is because they're foreigners who have taken over American jobs that have been OUTSOURCED to other countries.

[cuke]

73. I disagree

I think it's all about customer service being an expense center and not a profit center. Have you ever noticed the customer service provided by the sales force tends to be excellent UNTIL you sign the contract?

I've gotten just as sucky customer service from american born customer service reps. Have you ever had a problem with a bank? How was the customer service at the branch?

[cboy4]

36. No, you're the one not getting it . I shouldn't have to

spend 25 minutes on the phone struggling with two people who sound like they just started their first week of ESL before I get to a supervisor.

That's bullshit.

Skittles is absolutely correct.

I will be calling DISH and tell them I wish to cancel my $100 per month service, unless they can assure me they will do a better job with their tech support department.

[cuke]

43. So you think you're entitled to this?

Good luck with that

[Richard Steele]

48. Yes. He's "entitled" to things he's PAYING FOR. It's really not that difficult a concept.

In this case, he's paying for ASSISTANCE.

So, he's entitled to assistance. Simple.

[Richard Steele]

47. It really doesn't seem too much to ask that the people operating a "help line"...

...actually be able to HELP you.

Especially when it's a help line that YOU are paying for.

[Richard Steele]

32. I think he "gets it" just fine.

Familiarize yourself with his body of work, and
I suspect you'll see what I mean.

[cuke]

37. If you ever get the spine to post more than innuendo

let me know

[Richard Steele]

40. Why? nm

[cuke]

44. So I'll know to take you off ignore

[cboy4]

46. Well put me on ignore as well, because you're an

arrogant pain in the ass.

[cuke]

49. I'll make that call

[Richard Steele]

53. M'kay.

[mike_c]

4. yes, it is all about providing minimal customer support for the least possible cost....

One day they'll be able to do it with an AI that can monitor ten thousand phone lines simultaneously and they'll discard humans all together. Of course, the AI will speak everyone's language impeccably.

[magellan]

5. Longstanding problem, pisses me off too

I even had to phone one of the corp HQs and DEMAND they not pass me on to their call center in India because I was having trouble getting anything but cue-card responses from them.

I don't begrudge these workers their jobs...except when it has a negative impact on ME as a customer. But corps don't value anything above their bottom line.

[sandnsea]

6. Tell them you can't hear

I can only hear out of one ear, and not the best at that, so when I politely explained that it wasn't personal, that I just had a hearing disability, they put me on the line with someone from the US. I really try to work with them though, it isn't their fault they're in the position there in. I usually tell them they need to slow way down, and need to tell them several times. I used to live in the south, and had to ask people to repeat things there too. And sometimes in California, where I grew up, English wasn't everybody's first language either.

gawd, I know, I'm such a bigot.

[Bluebear]

7. I am understanding of your dilemmas and pardon me, although it is very sorry.

:hi:

[Rincewind]

9. tech support

They might not be immigrants. They could be in another country. When I was having computer problems, a couple of years ago, the tech support people I talked to were in India. Today's fun fact: all the women in India are named Jennifer. I know this because I talked to several, and they all said they were named Jennifer.

[Rosemary2205]

10. You little racist you.

Just kidding. I mentioned this awhile back and got hammered. Absolutely hammered. Appearantly I am just too ignorant and selfish for words because my ears haven't been trained to decifer certain heavy accents.

And for the record - I've only had to call 911 once in my life and I had to press one for English - which I didn't mind - but the 911 operator who answered not only mumbled and I believe was smacking gum into the phone, but had a very heavy deep southern accent. I'm FROM the south and still have trouble with it. God forbid one of the yankees moving into Atlanta had to deal with her.

Some people just should not be on the phone.

[Eurobabe]

11. I hear you, it is totally irritating

Half the time the tech/CS reps have no fucking clue about the system you are calling about. Recent example, TiVO. Although the man was very pleasant, I suspect he had no idea what the hell I was discussing (using a TiVO with a SlingBox to watch US TV overseas, the funny part is, SlingMedia, just acquired by EchoStar - has this huge banner promoting TiVO and vice-versa) You'd think they would educate their REPS on how each system impacts the other one.

I bet for $2 an hour, they are all really motivated. :eyes: Wouldn't you be?

Greedy damn companies that offshore piss me off too. Pay a living wage and put an American to work!! DAMMIT!! If I didn't love my TiVO so much, I would cancel it for this very reason. Once I get wind that a company offshores their tech/CS support, I don't do business with them.

[Breeze54]

12. ~~~~~~

:hug:


:(

[cboy4]

18. And Breeze, I am sooooooo on the side of immigrants.

I oppose the Berlin Wall they're building along the US-Mexico border.

I can't watch Lou Dobbs any more because he blames Mexicans for everything, day after day.

I hate the words "illegal alien," and have never used them.

So I'm sad I'm going off like this, but I have to understand the directions to solve my problem.

Uhhh.

[Breeze54]

21. I understand ...believe me!!

I thought you might have read this....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2256413&mesg_id=2256524

[cboy4]

24. No, I missed that one. Yea, it's enough to ruin your day.

:hug:

[havocmom]

14. Assumption is the workers are immigrants is foolish

Many call centers, tech support, even mortgage loan processing and medical transcription companies do not hire immigrants, they hire local workers who happen to live in the countries the jobs have been moved to. You aren't necessarily talking to immigrant workers. It is highly likely you are speaking to foreign workers, on other continents.

Hell, more and more US tax returned are processed overseas every year.

Immigrants? Pretty possible you are not talking to immigrants, just workers in other nations with fewer laws to protect workers and environment. In other countries, the pay is less, the laws can such that it can be much easier for big companies to abuse people. In other countries, there is often little or no rules regulating worker safety, conditions, protecting the environment.

And yes, there is often problems with language. Some companies hire language coaches to work with foreign work forces on pronunciation and such. Some companies don't want that expense either.

All is done to squeeze as many pennies profit out of each transaction as they can.

It's not any fault of any workers. It's all about the greed of the top management of corporations.

[cboy4]

22. Well, the employees I spoke with tonight had thick

Hispanic accents, so I suspect they live here.

I could be wrong, and I'm NOT blaming the employees one bit.

I blame the companies, if they're trying to cut corners by paying lower wages.

[havocmom]

33. Could be immigrants, but LOTS of US corporations have moved many facitlites

to Mexico.

And, I know you weren't blaming the workers. I just try to restate that in threads like these because I really get tired of people who complain about communication problems being called racists and such.

Communication is essential in many business contacts/transactions. If the corporations don't get THAT they deserve to fail. They have already failed the American workers (natives and immigrants alike). Now they are failing their customers. The result will be failure period.

And it isn't just wages they save on. As I mentioned, they save when they move to where there is little or no regulation of workers rights, conditions, environmental and safety issues. I also get sick of blaming the workers for costs. They cut costs on more than just payroll when they move across a line on a map. They avoid all sorts of responsibilities while claiming workers in the US just cost them too much.

[Breeze54]

50. Outsourcing A Nation's Workforce

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/november082007/outsource_mania_11807.php">Outsourcing A Nation's Workforce

http://www.nojobsforindia.com/">America is Losing IT and Other Technical Jobs To Outsourcing At An Alarming Rate
Billions in lost tax revenue, many livelihoods destroyed.

THIS ISN'T A SHIRT OR A TOY, this is YOUR bank accounts, credit and personal information!

------------------

Outsourcing's long-term effects on U.S. jobs at issue

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/164018_outsource10.asp

By JOHN COOK AND PAUL NYHAN
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTERS

Outsourcing.

That single word has evoked far-reaching emotions in the past year, prompting presidential candidates and labor groups to decry its practice and economists and chief executives to defend it as a natural progression of the economy.

But what is outsourcing?

As a concept it's not new. Companies have chased cheap labor around the globe for decades, making cars in Mexico, plastic toys in Taiwan and shirts in Malaysia.

But in recent years, the effort has crept into higher gear and income brackets, and it shows no signs of slowing down. The latest outcry is fueled by the fact that some service professionals, once insulated from outsourcing, are watching their jobs head overseas during a largely jobless recovery.

It is unclear how many accounting, engineering, technical support and other professional jobs have moved offshore in recent years. But some industry watchers believe as many as 200,000 service jobs could be lost each year for the next 11 years.



snip-->

But in the past couple of years, the debate over outsourcing has intensified as technology companies reduce costs by sending technical support, software development, quality assurance and other functions offshore.

Only a few years ago this idea would have been impossible. The world mostly turned to its technology leaders, companies such as Microsoft Corp. for example, when it needed software. But with the growth of broadband Internet connections and e-mail, technical support staff and software developers can respond to questions with the same speed in Bangalore, India, as they do in Bellevue. And they can do it at a fraction of the cost.

snip-->

But don't tell that to Myra Bronstein, a Mercer Island resident who lost her software-testing job last year when her company shifted the work to India. Before she was laid off from Watchmark-Comnitel, Bronstein was making $76,500 a year.

Now with her paycheck gone and unemployment benefits exhausted, Bronstein has resorted to selling furniture and collectibles on eBay.

She blames outsourcing.


Myra Bronstein's software-testing job at Watchmark-Comnitel
went to India last year. And if she wanted exit benefits,
Bronstein had to retrain her replacement. :grr:

"The fact that they not only outsourced my job, but my entire industry, makes me feel powerless and paralyzed," said Bronstein. "Frankly, this situation has created problems that are way too big for one person like me to solve."

BACKLASH

Not surprisingly, politicians are rushing to fill the void left by the lack of enough hard data.

Democratic presidential front-runner Sen. John Kerry has already said he will "tear every page from the tax code" that allows "any Benedict Arnold CEO or company to move jobs overseas."

In Congress, Democratic lawmakers bashed top Bush administration economic adviser Dr. Greg Mankiw when he suggested outsourcing could eventually help the economy.

More....

:cry:

[Breeze54]

34. That's exactly what they're doing!

Outsourcing tech support

http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/381

Moving forward well over two millenia, we've seen a tremendous increase in outsourcing by American corporations in the last decade. Company after company has moved manufacturing and professional service work to other countries, with India the poster child for this global transformation - in part because English is their only unifying national language among the dozens of other languages across the country. In particular, the IT industry has been shifting technical support to Indian call centers in greater and greater volumes, to the point now where most consumer tech support calls about a problematic PC will be answered by someone sitting in a cubicle in Bangalore or New Delhi.

more.......

The H-1B visas are increasing also!! :grr:

--------

OutSourcing Tech Support

Tags: outsourcing - tech - support - funny - spoof

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZG1i9FWZa8

:P

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Two points

chances are that phone bank is at Bangalore India

No, 9.11 does not require perfect English... hell I'd have an in if I wanted to do that (Again), since I speak English AND Spanish... and MIGHt be able to handle a call in Hebrew.

[IndianaJones]

19. key to Dish tech support....tell them you wish to cancel right off the bat...

you'll get support in the U.S.

[cboy4]

27. Well, I can tell you I was more than a little unhappy when

I got home from work tonight and discovered that my problematic DVR hadn't recorded the USC-CAL game...a game I was looking forward to watch all shift. x(

[IndianaJones]

28. It took me several days to get the service I wanted from them. nt.

[Occulus]

39. So download it

find a torrent of it.

Oh, I'll catch hell from the DU Copyright Police for even suggesting it, but the fact that your hardware failed and you WANT to watch what would have been a legal recording only underscores how utterly insane our copyright laws have become.

I don't mean to derail this thread, if the DUCP jumps me for this post.

[cboy4]

45. Download a complete college football game that

was broadcast on ABC tonight??

I've never heard of being able to do that.

And of course, it's the principle....especially forking over $100 a month.

[Breeze54]

51. You shouldn't even have to do that!!

That's absurd! Why have the "service" at all? :shrug:

[cboy4]

52. I know! It would be like having trouble with AAA, and then

someone telling you, "Well why don't you just change the tire yourself if you're so unhappy?"....even though you're paying for the damn service membership.

I don't understand why some people are having trouble getting the point.

[JCMach1]

20. Also, don't assume they are speaking broken English... there are more Indian English Speakers than

Americans!

It's the company that's the problem!

I dare say if they had outsourced to Scotland, or backwoods New Zealand you would have had difficulty understanding them too...

[MiniMe]

23. I haven't had that problem with DirecTV

Their tech support seems to be in the US, at least for now.

[Heidi]

26. You should put your thoughts in a letter to the company's headquarters.

The company's upper management, after all, is solely responsible for its hiring policies. This is a customer service issue, not an accent issue, really. (I promise that I'm not being snarky with you; just offering a realistic approach that might yield results.) :hi:

[cboy4]

30. Thanks Heidi. I'm going to contact them.....yes, it's a

customer service issue, but the reason it's a customer service issue is the thick, thick accent.

And I'm not blaming the employees. They're being offered the jobs, so it's not their fault. It's the fault of the company.

[bridgit]

54. if i may ask, what do you do for a living, cboy4?

:)

[cboy4]

58. I'm training to become a firefighter. Why do you

ask?

[bridgit]

61. because my husband used to perform tech support and mentioned often...

the difficulties in trying to solve problems remotely with what are often sparse clues from people that themselves may not have had English as a 1st language, this is California, and it's possible to even speak with an English speaker that garbles their words...

try that in reverse, try being a tech support person with maybe no more than a series of flip cards to refer to as you are able to sense nonetheless the frustrations of their customer

if you're planning to be a firefighter here in cali (but for certain areas though nearly anywhere in the country i suppose), my hope is that you include some conversational Spanish in your curriculum :thumbsup:

[cboy4]

63. Bridgit. The bottom line is it's unacceptable for a

company to hire tech support people who are not capable of speaking clear English over the phone. That's the key. Over the phone.

I don't care whether it's someone who's born and raised here in California, or someone who is working at a call center in Guatemala.

And again, I don't blame the employee. I blame the company.

[bridgit]

65. cboy4, again, and more to the point, most americans don't want to *have* to *need* to...

understand someone else from another culture (as this is if the newspapers are anywhere near correct: a global economy) they just want to be understood and that is that dammit!

the newer suburbs of many growing american cities can be made up of rather culturally insulated/isolated people not seeking much in the way of cross-pollination so as to say

having hitchhiked to the tip of Mexico as a teenager, and stayed for a time in a French convent outside Paris, now speaking conversational tongues, etc, i am able to confirm that the world is larger than the street i live on

understanding that you do speak english, and perhaps as a resultant of your simple frustration; i think you're too willing to miss the point but that's just me

[cboy4]

68. Well, we're just going to have to disagree on this

issue Bridgit.

Implying that I'm isolated and/or uninterested/don't need to understand someone else from another country couldn't be further from the truth.

There's a difference between a thick accent and an accent.

If I moved to France and took a technical support job, and the customers couldn't understand my American accent....I wouldn't consider that their fault. I would consider it my fault for not speaking clearer French.

[bridgit]

88. understood...

[backscatter712]

55. Can't say I blame you.

I've talked to a lot of call center people from India or Central/South America.

Quite frankly, I don't care if you're Indian, Mexican or Martian, but the job description does call for someone who speaks more than two words of English, and is competent with technical stuff. I can deal with accents, but some of the people I've talked to are completely incompetent.

And it's not just in the call centers. Dealing with defective products and getting them RMAed and fixed is also infuriating.

A few years ago, I bought an AOpen Aeolus video card for my computer. It was, of course, defective - the heat sink design was incredibly sloppy, and the thermal paste between the heat sink/fan assembly and the GPU was slathered on in insane quantities, and the result was overheating and incredibly slow performance.

I sent it in to be replaced. The replacement was DOA. Completely dead. :mad: Sent it back again, with a note attached asking them if they'd be so kind as to send me a card that works this time, the third card was defective in the same way as the first card. :mad: :mad: :mad: At that point, I was psychotically furious, gave up, gave the card to a friend who has more patience with dealing with tech support than I do, and bought an eVGA card that worked right the first time.

AOpen is forever on my shitlist.

So is Alienware. No, I wasn't unwise enough to waste my money on one of their laptops, but my roommate was - the thing was overclocked and undercooled, again lots of overheating, and lots of breakdowns. And we had to send the laptop in multiple times before they fixed what was wrong with it - bad sound card, but multiple times, it came back with the paperwork saying "No problem found." :mad:

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I understand that when products are shipped, occasionally, they're defective. As long as the defects are occasional, fine. Make sure than when I call in and ask you to fix things, you immediately do whatever it takes to make it right. I don't care if it costs you a million bucks. If it takes more than one try to unfuck a fucked-up product, you're forever on my shitlist. There's no excuse for shitty customer service! :mad:

[cboy4]

64. No, there is no excuse for shitty customer service...

especially at $100 per month for satellite TV.

[mwb970]

59. Sounds like someone needs a nap. /nt

[cboy4]

62. You're quite the scholar aren't you? n/t.

[Neecy]

66. my problem isn't with broken english...

I had a simlar problem with DirecTv about six months ago - I had serious problems with my HD reception so I called them up. I got a service center in India (at least, I'm pretty sure it was India).

I understood the guy just fine, even though his english wasn't perfect. The problem came when he couldn't understand why I was calling. I explained to him over and over again, using simple vocabulary and speaking slowly, about the problems with my reception. He still didn't understand and tried to sell me HD service - even though it must have been clear from looking at my service records that I already had it.

I was nice to him. But good god, how frustrating. I had to call three times until I finally got someone who understood the problem and she got a tech out to switch out my HD box.

[NotGivingUp]

67. i think we should all just tell them to fuck off and not buy any unnecessary

goods/services.

[truth2power]

69. Yeah, it pisses me off, too...

I'm better than most, I do believe, at understanding someone who's not a native speaker of English, but still...

I've called computer support and got someone in India, and I have no wish to humiliate these people, but sometimes it's almost impossible to understand what they're trying to tell you.

[Neshanic]

70. As a Vista victim, and it's issues with my printers and other programs

I have logged more time on technical support than any human could without losing their mind. Also add support for Windows Mobile 6 which is an adventure in itself.

Two items;

One the connections to India can be very bad, and waiting sixty minutes on hold for HP and then calling back is not an option, so you do the best you can.

In my experience it is a 80/20 thing. 80% percent of the time I get a person who speaks very quickly, and is extremely difficult too understand, and compounding the problem they are undertrained and constant circular phone transfers result. The other 20% the person can be understood completely, and no problems are encountered.

But Adobe...all bets are off. They have THE most incredibly insane customer service imaginable, here and wherever they send the calls to.

[MissDeeds]

76. It's an honest concern

As a professor, I have taught and advocated multiculturalism, but agree problems do occur when the ability to understand is impaired. Not long ago I contacted American Express regarding some additional features for my account. It was very disconcerting trying to understand the financial implications for the various features from someone who I simply could not understand. I wound up saying that I would have to call back later and terminated the call.

Wouldn't it be more practical to give limited English speaking employees positions that don't rely so heavily on verbal communication?

[cboy4]

79. Yea, exactly. That's my point. I'm only talking about

jobs that deal with heavy verbal communication...especially involving important issues.

And your financial question was even more important than my technical support question.

Something has to be done.

[madfloridian]

77. They are all in different countries, not here.

Dish outsources support all over the world.

[Missy Vixen]

80. When you write your letter to Charlie, DISH's CEO

be sure and ask him what happened to the vaunted "call center" DISH was building in PA. It seems they outsourced to India when they thought nobody else was looking.

We're 10 year customers of DISH. We don't spend $100 per month, but we spend enough, and the only reason we're still there is the DVR. We're facing a VERY expensive equipment upgrade, and frankly, it's not worth it for us to continue throwing good money after bad. (We have a typical two-story home -- not taller, no soaring ceilings or unusual architecture, not inaccessible, typical. The only local company that will do fixes or installations of a newer LNB wants $400 to get on the roof for an hour. Four. Hundred. Dollars.) Our last go-round with DISH customer service was so bad we don't want to call them anymore for the same reasons you cite.

If I could give up watching "TDS" and "Colbert," I'd do it. Cable goes up everytime you turn around. DISH may sound like a great deal, but the equipment upgrades'll kill ya. The outsourcing to India, at the prices DISH charges its customers, is outrageous.

Julie

[cboy4]

82. OK, will do n/t

[Chovexani]

83. To those of you complaining about furriners

When I worked for Chase Card Services, our foreign CSRs, who I would get on occasion when I needed to transfer a customer to a different department, often spoke better English than the people sitting around me, here in Arizona. Some of the worst English is spoken right here in the good ol' US of A. By people born and raised here. Trust me, I know--you have to try to get solutions out of them, I have to try and decipher the near-incomprehensible notes they leave on your account files.

I'm not accusing you of anything, this is more directed to the "India sux" crowd. I appreciate the fact that you took the time to specifically call out people who speak broken English as opposed to just railing against brown people.

As a consumer, I've had negative experiences with North American CSRs and positive ones from CSRs in India and the Philippines.

[cboy4]

94. Chovexani, hopefully you read enough of my work

here to know I'm not a bigot or a racist.

The people I was having trouble understanding were not Indian...they were Latino.

And whether they were Latino or East Indian, or Russian or whatever is irrelevant.

[Snarkturian Clone]

84. I have so many tech support nightmares that

I think it's safe to say that I've been completely pissed off by tech support I've called about 75% of the time.

Recently I needed HP tech support and I spent 2 hours on the phone with India- had to explain my problem to 4 different people. They finally transferred me to an American and my problem was solved in about 5 minutes.

However, I've had nightmares with both Whirlpool and Comcast tech supports, which is American-based.

[iamthebandfanman]

86. I would say how do you think they feel when u go to their country

but i remembered most countries teach their people english because they promote being bi-lingual....so u probably wouldnt have a problem.

[cboy4]

93. What does going to "their country" have to do with

my point about hiring immigrants who speak broken English for jobs that require helping people solve sometimes complicated technical problems step by step by step???

I already said in another post that if I lived in a foreign country, I would not expect to be a technical support agent if my American accent was too thick for customers to understand.

[stirlingsliver]

87. Certain Jobs That Immigrants Are Not Qualified To Work??

So.

You think that there are certain jobs that immigrants are not qualified to work, huh?

What jobs do you think immigrants are qualified to do?

Let me guess:

gardeners
janitors
taxi drivers
dishwashers


"Those" kinds of jobs.

For a long time, people have said that there are "certain jobs that gay people are not qualified to work".

We call those people homophobes.

What do we call a person who says there are "certain jobs that immigrants are not qualified to work"????

[Balbus]

89. I'll take, what is "racism," for $100, Alex.

[LostinVA]

90. If speaking understandable English is part of the job, then they should speak understandable English

It's not an immigrant thing at all. Some immigrants speak perfectly fine English. Some people born in America can't speak clearly over the phone. They also shouldn't hold such jobs.

[cboy4]

91. Do you work for Fox News stirlingsliver? I mean, you

completely distorted what I said in a very obnoxious manner.

I strongly believe that immigrants should be able to hold any job, as long as they're able to fulfill their duties.

Speaking in broken English as a technical support worker (to the point the customer cannot understand a damn thing they're saying),does not fulfill that duty/job description.

I pointed out in my OP (if you had bothered to read it) the positions immigrants who speak broken English are not qualified to hold:

"Sorry, but there are certain jobs that immigrants are not qualified to work -- and those are phone jobs. They can do everything else, but on the phone, my hearing cannot attempt to at least read lips."

In your irresponsible haste to imply that I'm a bigot, you decided ignore that. I'll stop short of asking you whether you could be illiterate, because I'd be stooping to you level.

The bottom line is you have a lot of nerve challenging me on my immigration stand, considering you don't know jack shit about me or jack shit about how I consistently defend immigrants. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2256827#2256965

You don't have a clue, ha stirlingsilver?

[SammyWinstonJack]

92. I try to be nice, it isn't their fault, they are just trying to make a living, as we all are.

Blame the greedy corps who couldn't care less about the American workers who built their companies. And blame the greedy politicians who voted to outsource American jobs. Vote the bastards OUT!