kudos to freeper arderkrag who presents an excellent argument against torture

[cali]

A former Navy survival instructor subjected to waterboarding as part of his military training told Congress yesterday that the controversial tactic should plainly be considered torture and that such a method was never intended for use by U.S. interrogators because it is a relic of abusive totalitarian governments.
to the rest of the vile freepers. The responses to him are typically horrifying. But he really schools them. Fascinating to see how people who defend torture think- and react to being tortured. And don't for a moment think that these freepers are alone.
I agree with him completely.

4 posted on 11/09/2007 6:19:48 AM PST by arderkrag (Libertarian Nutcase (Political Compass Coordinates: 9.00, -2.62 - www.politicalcompass.org))
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To: MindBender26
No, you can't. Sorry. If you compromise the principles of a free society just for survival's sake, you don't deserve the benefits of the country those principles are founded upon.

And drop the whole "ticking time bomb" garbage. It's an old and tired argument that is based on emotion.


To: PLMerite
I think a lot of people confuse the “torture” that is used to extract legitimate information and the “torture” that is used to punish and intimidate “enemies of the state” in such leftist icons as Cuba, North Korea, Cambodia, Saddam’s Iraq, etc.

Torture is torture. It's always wrong.

23 posted on 11/09/2007 6:35:23 AM PST by arderkrag (Libertarian Nutcase (Political Compass Coordinates: 9.00, -2.62 - www.politicalcompass.org))


To: svcw
You're trying a very cute little tactic here, but it won't work with me. What they do, chopping off heads/etc. is not a basis for how we should act when fighting against them. It doesn't work that way. We should not stoop to their level. Ever. And please, don't even mention that idiotic "then we get chopped off at the knees hur hur hur!!" line of thought.

For the record, I would recommend the definition of torture below (from Merriam-webster.com, second definition 2):

2: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure


To: Paco
More emotion based arguments. Opposing waterboarding is not justifying murder. It’s opposing torture. It stands alone.

68 posted on 11/09/2007 7:06:05 AM PST by arderkrag (Libertarian Nutcase (Political Compass Coordinates: 9.00, -2.62 - www.politicalcompass.org))


20 posted on 11/09/2007 6:34:12 AM PST by arderkrag (Libertarian
Nutcase (Political Com


To: MNJohnnie
I have thought about the topic. Long and hard. Torture is beneath us, regardless of how you cut it. The only ones being “pseudo-intellectual” are the numbskulls who engage in the “ticking time-bomb” scenario argument style.

To: safeasthebanks
Improper phrasing of the question. Standing on our principles is just as important as preservation of the nation, in fact, they are one and the same.


To: MNJohnnie
No, it doesn’t work that way, and that’s not using my logic. In actual combat, the rules are simply: don’t be killed. But you simply do not torture prisoners of war.



To: MNJohnnie
Using your “logic” any action taken by the defenders to protect innocent life is morally equal to any action taken by the aggressors to end innocent lives.

No, it's not. But torture is wrong. There is a difference between defense of the country and torture. The latter is what I oppose, the former is what I am for. See the difference?

To: safeasthebanks
No, to me, the principles are equal. Our principles are all sacred. To compromise one compromises them all.

To: PLMerite
Tell me you wouldn’t pull the guy’s parts off to save your kid(s). Or, more importantly, tell *them* you wouldn’t do whatever was necessary to keep them safe.

I have told them. They agree with me. Quite a few conservatives do, as a matter of fact.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1923322/posts?q=1&;page=101

You may be a conservative libertarian, and I'm sure I disagree with you on most things, but I really respect your position and arguments on torture.

[wtmusic]

1. Incredible.

Someone over there gets it. Has he been tombstoned yet? :shrug:

[cali]

3. I'd be surprised if he doesn't get tombstoned

but man, the cretins he's arguing with are fucking scary, and they represent what I guess is a sizable minority of Americans.

[originalpckelly]

8. It really makes you understand what kind of Nazis we're dealing with.

Usually, that sort of talk would be extreme, but advocating the torture of another person definitely places you in the Nazi category.

[alfredo]

2. I wonder how long it will be before he is kicked off the board.

[Javaman]

4. But please remember these are the same people who

support limpballs when he said that abu garib was nothing more than a bunch of pranksters.

They flip with the wind. granted, it's refreshing to see that they are capable of sanity, but where were they 3 years ago?

[cali]

5. How do you know what this person's position was on Abu Gharib?

For all you know, he said the same thing he's saying now, three years ago.

[Javaman]

6. Point taken, I can't lump them all together, however, during abu garib

it was a regular back slapping convention over there and doing their best to play it down as "college type hyjinks".

[cali]

7. It's sitll like that

they looove torture. this guy is part of a tiny minority.

[Javaman]

9. perhaps, the ice is finally melting to a small degree over there. nt