Call of Duty 4. Desensitizing our unconscious by sensationalizing and glorifying warfare?

[Danieljay]

http://www.callofduty.com/

Wait, then click on 'view the latest trailer'.

There is a part of me that thinks this is kinda 'cool'. The better part of me asks:

Who is really behind this and how does this affect our collective unconscious? Just another game or propaganda?



Thoughts?

[DS1]

1. I'm getting it

All of the Call of Duty games have done nothing but instill a great amount of respect towards the guys who fought in WW2. This is their first game outside of those operations, but the demo was fun. It's fun.

So, it's easy to sit their and lob veiled accusations of a game developer when you don't know anything about it, isn't it?

[Blashyrkh]

49. Indeed. Playing CoD has given me an appreciation for what those men experienced

...without having to experience it firsthand. The CoD games are presented in a completely respectful and remarkably informative way.

I haven't read this entire thread but I'm heartened to see that some progressives still support intellectual freedom, not censorship.

[and-justice-for-all]

2. I plan on buying it....

My hubby loves first person shooter games, specailly the more realistic ones like DELTA FORCE

[Az]

3. The human mind can tell the difference between simulation and reality

We do not form connective bonds with simulations in the way we do real people.

Video games came into serious existence around the mid 80s. If violent video games had a serious impact on crime we would expect to see it reflected in a rise in violent crime rates.



Nope... no significant increase in violent crime. In fact there is a steady decrease. Maybe all the would be violent offenders are inside playing games instead of killing real people.

[rucky]

5. No connective bonds to simulations, eh? Tell that to Bessie...

[Az]

11. Now you are just indulging in fantasy

Baaaaaad rucky... baaaaaad.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

17. We gave one of those...

To a Scottish friend once. Brought a tear to his glass eye, it did.

[Danieljay]

14. I'm not suggesting these games have a direct correlation with violent behavior, what I am suggesting

is that, on an unconscious level, we are desensitizing our collective unconcious to the horrors of warfare. I talked to a couple of soldiers from the first Iraq war who compared their warfare experience to playing video games. The were removed from the human element by the technology and safety of distance.

Weren't the Janes Addition games partially developed by the Pentagon?

[Az]

18. Na, a kid sees their friend get blown up for real in combat and they are gonna barf

Our society however may be kept distant and remote from the impact of conflict but that is due to the surreal coverage of the media and the current means of waging war. Everything is done to keep the strife of war away from the public. We are told life is fine, continue shopping, nothing to see here. And the media plays along.

[Danieljay]

21. I totally agree.... with the body of your post. n/t

[benEzra]

72. That's because the 1st Iraq war was fought like a video game...

largely by people sitting at screens pushing buttons, whether on the ground or in aircraft. Has nothing to do with first-person shooting games desensitizing people to infantry warfare.

BTW, I play Halo a lot, and I guarantee you that if hostile aliens from outer space showed up on Earth, I'd be just as shocked and appalled as a non-Halo player...

[Bjorn Against]

15. I view Call of Duty differently than I would view say Grand Theft Auto for example...

But unlike many people I would take the view that Call of Duty is far worse than Grand Theft Auto. I don't believe video games cause people to become violent, I have been playing violent video games for years and I am more or less a pacifist. ALL forms of media however can influence the way a person thinks about the world. Call of Duty is set in a supposedly realistic environment, yet it glorifies war in a very unrealistic fashion. It is propaganda, no it is not going to make someone go out and kill someone but it may well make some people view war as something normal and even positive.

That is why I don't play games like Call of Duty, because they are pure propaganda. On the other hand I love games like Grand Theft Auto (which actually has some brilliant social commentary in it if people would pay attention), and Resident Evil, and Doom, those are all great games that may be very violent but they do not carry any real propaganda factor like Call of Duty does.

People need to look beyond the violence and recognize the underlying messages in all forms of media, be it video games, movies, television, or print.

[Danieljay]

23. Well said. I don't have issue with violent video games. I agree that

it affects and influences the way a person thinks about the world.

Well said.

[Blashyrkh]

51. Propaganda is only as effective as the person reading it is stupid.

I agree with your premise to a point, but I consider CoD games as a history package before propaganda.

[Bjorn Against]

62. If you get your history from Call of Duty then I don't know what to tell you...

And you greatly underestimate the power of propaganda. No one tells you that advertising plays a big role in their spending habits, but there is a reason so many billions are spent on advertising. It works much better than people think it does when it comes to impacting people's spending habits. The same goes with propaganda, you may not think it effects you but it does. Everybody is effected by propaganda, including you.

[Blashyrkh]

68. I'm no buff...

...but Call of Duty 3 gave me a pretty good overview of the events surrounding the Falaise Gap. The games provide real historical information about real events. I don't suggest these games are going to replace history curriculum anytime soon in terms of discussion and analysis, but they do provide an overview of real events.


Quote: No one tells you that advertising plays a big role in their spending habits, but there is a reason so many billions are spent on advertising. It works much better than people think it does when it comes to impacting people's spending habits. The same goes with propaganda, you may not think it effects you but it does. Everybody is effected by propaganda, including you.


I studied marketing at university so I'm well aware of the psychology behind advertising, which is one reason I consider myself mostly immune to it.

But it's not just advertising. I consider 90% of commercial news media to be nothing but propaganda. And it effects my spending habits. I often buy a competitor product if specifically recall an ad for a product.

If everyone is effected by propaganda, that must include you, whom I consider to be propagating the myth that propaganda is an effective means of control. I don't believe it is. It's only effective proportional to the inherent intelligence of the population it's being unleashed upon.

[Bjorn Against]

69. Yes propaganda does effect me, and it effects you too. You are in denial if you don't believe it.

In truth though I am probably less effected by propaganda than you are because I am conscious of the fact that propaganda effects the way I think. Propaganda effects the way everyone thinks, no one is immune not even the most brilliant of thinkers. The only way to effectively minimize the effect that propaganda is having on you is to recognize the effect that it is having. If you deny you are that propaganda has any impact on you then I can guarantee it has a much bigger impact on you than you could ever imagine.

And please don't take that as a flame, because it is not. I would say the same thing to anyone else as well. It is something that every person must deal with and acknowledge or we will never be free thinkers.

(On edit: by the way I stand by my previous statement, Call of Duty is not and never has been a historically accurate portrayal of war. War is not and never has been a video game.)

[Blashyrkh]

73. Most. Condescending. Post. Ever.

How can you be propagandised if you are aware that you are being propagandised? Propaganda is, by its nature, mis- or disinformation. If you are aware of that, how can it have any effect on you?

You sound like you're thinking about subliminal messages.

[Danieljay]

26. Actually, thats not exactly true, though I agree with your stats and premise.

The human mind doesn't often know the difference between a thought and an actual event. As a clinical hypnotherapist in practice, I can give countless examples of how the body responds to 'simulations' of the mind all the time.

I guess you missed my original point of my post. It wasn't about bashing the game, blaming the game for violence, or violent crime rates.

Its about desensitizing our unconscious minds. When we grow up playing realistic war games they are indeed a simulation. Then, when confronted with a real war, complete with a compliant media and lack of truthful coverage, IT, the real war, seems also like a simulation and everyone sits on their ass and doesn't take it seriously. We watch the real war on our tv screens and it seems to take on the same depth as does those video games. Thus, it appears that its not even real. I guess I'm having a hard time saying it just right, but surely you can get the jist of what i'm saying?

The game itself looks amazing and I'd like to try it out, though most of those games are beyond me. I bought a Janes Addiction game once and it was too damn hard for me to understand how to play it.

[Az]

36. Its a case of the media presenting the real war more like a simulation

Thus the danger isn't necessarily the simulated games. Its the fact that reality is being presented like a game. In the game we know its a simulation and the mind reacts accordingly. But the media presents itself as reality but in a way similar to simulation. That is where the blur is occurring.

[Danieljay]

43. Yes. Thanks for clarifying what I was attempting to say..

and, when those lines are blurred, people are less likely to pay attention to the reality of what is going on with our planet.

How bout a save the planet video game? Or a Department of Peace video game? I guess its easier to kill and mame than create and nurture.

[Breeze54]

29. The ARMY is using these games as recruitment tools!!

Even going so far as to ask the 'players' to enter their names and addresses, etc.

Then the 'recruitment' begins... :grr:

http://mbf.blogs.com/mbf/2007/11/play-call-of-du.html">Play Call of Duty 4 and Join the Army!

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7803&Itemid=2
As Call of Duty 4 hits store shelves, Next-Gen speaks with the franchise's military advisor,
who believes the proliferation of war games is a good thing for the US military.

What an asshole!

[RL3AO]

32. If COD 4 is a recruitment tool, then it does a horrible job.

Games like America's Army, which was developed specifically to recruit used realism. It used squad-based teamwork and if you died, you don't get to play again until the round is over (5-10 minutes). In Call of Duty 4, if you die you respawn in 5-10 seconds. You can die 20 times in a match. There is limited team work and it takes 4-5 shots to kill a person. It is not realistic enough to be a recruitment tool. Lets face it, if this game was set in WWII or Vietnam, there wouldn't be any problems would there?

[Breeze54]

39. Enter the ARMY's Game Tournaments and you'll see.

Just enter your name and address and phone number...you know...for the prizes. :eyes:

--------------

Army tournament features
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Army_tournament_features_chainsaw_masacre_video_0628.html

snip-->

As well as being a recruitment tool, video gaming serves as a valuable training tool for the military.
New recruits will sometimes learn the basics of combat or sharpen their skills in tactical shooting
games before heading into combat.

----------------

On Maneuvers With the Army's Game Squad

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/17/technology/circuits/17army.html?_r=1&oref=login

snip-->

The Army has no detailed figures on the game's success in encouraging young men and women to enlist, but a 2003 survey indicated that the game, which costs the Pentagon about $6 million a year, is more effective at delivering the Army's messages to young people than the hundreds of millions of dollars a year the Army spends on advertising, Colonel Wardynski said.

Just about every Army recruiting station stocks copies of the game, and some recruiters are organizing America's Army tournaments. The game's latest update, to be released online shortly, is called Firefight. The focus of the update is adding administrative tools to streamline online tournament play.

The way the Army sees it, the game's appeal is rooted in its realism. And the Green Up events are an important way of instilling it. As James Cowgill, a designer of the project, said as he braced for another potentially tongue-severing pothole in the back of the truck: "It's the new Wyoming dude ranch. You go on a convoy and get ambushed."

More.....

-------------

Look at the list of games the Pentagon has developed!!

http://www.armygamingchampionships.com/

Enter the tournament to win prizes BUT they need your name, address and ph #...etc.

[RL3AO]

40. Um, what games have the Pentagon developed?

BTW, it doesn't bother me that it asks for my name and address as my school has already given that stuff to everybranch.

[Breeze54]

41. You can OPT OUT

and you should!

------------------------

The Games Recruiters Play

http://www.counterpunch.org/rampton07302005.html

War is Fun as Hell

By SHELDON RAMPTON

Years of writing about public relations and propaganda has probably made me a bit jaded, but I was amazed nevertheless when I visited America's Army, an online video game website sponsored by the U.S. Department of Defense (DoD). In its quest to find recruits, the military has literally turned war into entertainment.

"America's Army" offers a range of games that kids can download or play online. Although the games are violent, with plenty of opportunities to shoot and blow things up, they avoid graphic images of death or other ugliness of war, offering instead a sanitized, Tom Clancy version of fantasy combat. One game, Overmatch, promises "a contest in which one opponent is distinctly superior ... with specialized skills and superior technology ... OVERMATCH: few soldiers, certain victory" (more or less the same overconfident message that helped lead us into Iraq).

Ubisoft, the company contracted to develop the DoD's games, also sponsors the "Frag Dolls," a real-world group of attractive, young women gamers who go by names such as "Eekers," "Valkyrie" and "Jinx" and are paid to promote Ubisoft products. At a computer gaming conference earlier this year, the Frag Dolls were deployed as booth babes at the America's Army demo, where they played the game and posed for photos and video (now available on the America's Army website). On the Frag Dolls weblog, "Eekers" described her turn at the "Combat Convoy Experience": "You have this gigantic Hummer in a tent loaded with guns, a rotatable turret, and a huge screen in front of it. Jinx took the wheel and drove us around this virtual war zone while shooting people with a pistol, and I switched off from the SAW turret on the top of the vehicle to riding passenger with an M4."


Non-virtual Realities

The babes-and-bullets fantasy world celebrated in games contrasts markedly with the experiences that real soldiers are facing in Iraq. A report by the Pentagon's own Mental Health Advisory Team-completed in January but only released last week-found that 54 percent of soldiers stationed in Iraq described morale in their individual units as "low or very low." In recent testimony to the House Armed Services Committee, U.S. Undersecretary for Defense David Chu, who is in charge of personnel recruitment for the military, admitted that "there is a reduced propensity to join the military among today's youth. Due to the realities of war, there is less encouragement today from parents, teachers, and other influencers to join the military."

Chu said parents and other "older advisers to young Americans" whose views on military service were shaped by the Vietnam War have become a chief obstacle to military recruiters, adding that he was also "lamenting the failure" of the media to report all of the "positive successes" of the military along with the news of bombings and growing insurgency.

-------------------------------------------------

Subliminal Militarization

http://www.wiretapmag.org/stories/35759/

By Adam Elkus, May 5, 2006

The U.S. Army and video game producers are increasingly collaborating on war simulation games
designed to attract a new generation of potential soldiers.

In the last few years, war simulation video games have enjoyed a boom. Marketed primarily to teenage boys and twentysomethings but played by gamers of all ages and sexes, they offer the thrill of the age-old battle against evil.

Particularly popular are semirealistic action games like "Rainbow Six," "Counter-Strike," "Battlefield 1942" and "Medal of Honor," allowing players to become supersoldiers in historical American battles or fight against the current bogeymen, Al-Qaida terrorists. They are obsessively detailed in replicating the experience of battle, minus the more troubling moral aspects of killing that are inherent in warfare. Unfortunately, they also fill the gamer's head with an idealized view of war.

These games are in a different league than your typical GI Joe cartoons. Military shooters provide a deceptive amount of detail, allowing you to literally see the battlefield through the eyes of a soldier. One can play with the exact weapons, vehicles, equipment and uniforms of the army in scenarios that replicate historical conflicts of Vietnam, the Gulf War and World War II, as well as fictional skirmishes against terrorists and guerrillas worldwide. The rush of adrenaline is overwhelming. How did the game designers develop such detailed games? In the answer lies the problem.

New frontier in military recruitment

At a time of falling military enlistment rates, it is becoming more difficult to reach the young. Slick advertisements with heavy metal music and shots of aircraft carriers are not enough to reverse the loss, and mothers are preventing recruiters from talking to their children. But the booming industry of video games provides convenient access to America's youth.

Video games as a whole have experienced a rapid growth in popularity. Seventy-five percent of American households play computer and video games. In 2005, 228 million computer and video games were sold: effectively two games for every American household. The earnings of blockbuster game titles often rival that of Hollywood films. "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas" grossed an astonishing $236 million compared to the blockbuster movie "War of the Worlds," which grossed $234 million in the United States.

Consultants from the various branches of the armed forces are paying attention and have been involved in the production of these games. TomDispatch and USA Today reported that the officials from the Army's Infantry School in Fort Benning, in concert with a joint Army/USC project developed the Microsoft Xbox game "Full Spectrum Warrior."

more......

[RL3AO]

44. BTW, I meant to add this to the previous post.

That Army site you linked is in no way affiliated with the games. They are a third party that holds tournaments for prizes. They have no say about what goes in the game nor any say about in game advertising. You will never be asked to give your name, address or phone number in COD 4 unless you play in a tournament hosted by a third party. As for the stuff in the mail, I just send them other spam mail in the prepaid envelops.

[Breeze54]

46. I said if you play in the tournament.

The DOD and the Pentagon are behind these games!!

[RL3AO]

47. Ah. I thought you meant you would be asked for this information before you play the actual game

[Breeze54]

52. They have more than 30,000 signing up all the time

for these "tournaments"...

That's how they're 'recruiting' or attempting to recruit.

That stat is in one of the articles I posted above.

[Breeze54]

50. The Pentagon Invades Your Xbox

The Pentagon Invades Your Xbox

New and Powerful Form of Propaganda Aims to Indoctrinate Young Video Gamers

by Nick Turse

www.dissidentvoice.org

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles9/Turse_Pentagon-Video-Games.htm

[RL3AO]

53. Okay okay we get it.

The Pentagon holds tournaments in games for recruitment purposes.

[lonestarnot]

4. My kid loves the shit, but he's no killer!

[Bjorn Against]

24. And no reasonable person would claim that those who play violent video games are violent people...

If such were the case we would all be dead because tens of millions play violent video games, and if even a tiny fraction of them carried their violence into the real world there would be countless dead bodies lying in the streets.

This is not about whether or not video games make people violent though, it is about whether propaganda is being spread through different forms of media. And in that case I would consider Call of Duty, as well as many films and books to be nothing more than propaganda pieces designed to effect the way we think about war.

[RL3AO]

25. When you say propaganda...

are you saying the U.S. Gov't is paying Infinity Ward to make these games to make people believe a certain belief?

[Danieljay]

27. I'm not sure about or even what Infinity Ward is but the US Government is paying for others...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3131181

[RL3AO]

28. Infinity Ward is the developer of COD 4.

Like I said in a different post, America's Army is a recruitment tool. Call of Duty 4 is not.

[Bjorn Against]

37. How do you know it is not?

Do you personally know the views that all of the developers hold on American militarism? Of course America's Army is a very obvious propaganda recruitment tool, but just because the US Army may not have had such a direct role in producing Call of Duty 4, that does not necessarily mean the developers are not promoting a pro-war message.

[RL3AO]

38. I guess if you feel that way, I'm not going to debate all night.

I'm off to go play COD 4.

[Breeze54]

30. Has your kid given them his name and address yet?

Expect recruiter calls.

[Deja Q]

6. That sort of violence is better aimed at Grand Theft Auto III

And I've not played Call of Duty 4.

[shadowrider]

7. Sometimes

A game is just a game. No conspiracies, no attempt to adjust sub-concious thought, no government attempt to desensitize..it's just a game. My favorite game is "Mafia", first person shooter with an actual plot and I have yet to be tempted to run out and join the local "family" because of it.

[gatorboy]

8. I thought it was pretty funny that while I was checking out Manhunt 2 on IGN.

a game parent groups want to ban for being overly violent, a banner ad popped up on the screen wanting me to join the army. :rofl:

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. We have been glorifying war for over a genearation

new media, but same dif, different media...

that is why things like Go Tell the Spartans, or When Johnny Comes Home are IGNORED

This is what sells, and it will only sell as long as people, the Empire, can treat war as a fantasy

FYI these same games are also popular in other countries, but you need to ask why the effect on the population is not the same

[DS1]

10. What measured effects do you have to compare those countries to the US?

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Look at Japan where these games are hugely popular

and compare the crime rate

for example

[RL3AO]

48. FWIW, the Japanese are not big fans of shooting games.

They prefer anime and role playing games (Final Fantasy, World of Warcraft, Oblivion, ect.)

[Bjorn Against]

66. They make some incredibly violent games though...

Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, Silent Hill, the Japanese have put out some pretty twisted games (and yes, I admit I enjoy all of those series). It is not all Final Fantasy. (And for the record World of Warcraft and Oblivion are both American games and are not nearly as popular over there as they are over here.) Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest are both huge titles over there no doubt, and those particular titles are not as violent as many other games but don't think that Japan does not see just as much blood as we do. There are plenty of M rated Japanese games.

[nadinbrzezinski]

67. Yeah right, that's why Battletech shoots bunnies

and Anime Mecha tanks shoot flowers

;-)

One joke of these games does shoot neftballs by the way

[Az]

16. Violent games are born in Japan

And yet they have virtually no violent crime compared to the US. Its not the games people play.

[Bjorn Against]

20. True, many Japanese games are extremely violent

And yes, their violent crime rate is almost nonexistent. It is clear to me that video games in and of themselves have no real effect on violent crime. Sure someone who is already predisposed to violence may be further influenced by video games, but if they are already predisposed then there is clearly a problem much bigger than video games.

That being said, compare the violent games made in Japan to games like Call of Duty 4. Japanese games are generally fantasy based violence, whereas Call of Duty is a much more "realistic" style of violence that really glorifies US military might. It is about propaganda, not the violence itself.

[zbdent]

13. um ... in the 80s and 90s, with movies like "Natural Born Killers", weren't

the Republicans worried that Hollywood was desensitizing kids to violence and killing?

Now it's "Go kill those towel-heads for Jesus!"

[Danieljay]

19. Pentagon and CIA enlist video games - developed for training and recruitment

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3131181/


INCREASINGLY, THE PENTAGON is joining forces with the video games industry to train and recruit soldiers. The U.S. Army considers such simulators vital for recruits who’ve been weaned on shoot ’em up games.

THE VIDEO GAME CONNECTION

“Full Spectrum Warrior” was created through the Institute for Creative Technologies in Marina Del Ray, Calif., a $45 million endeavor formed by the Army five years ago to connect academics with local entertainment and video game industries. The institute subcontracted game development work to Los Angeles-based Pandemic Studios.

The institute’s other training program, “Full Spectrum Command,” was released for military use in February.

Games such as “America’s Army,” developed and published by the Army, and “Guard Force,” which the Army National Guard developed with Alexandria, Va.-based Rival Interactive, can be downloaded or picked up at recruitment offices.

“America’s Army” has been a hit online since its July 2002 release, attaining 1.5 million registered users who endure a basic training regiment complete with barbed-wire obstacle courses and target practice.

[Breeze54]

45. Exactly and then they have 'tournaments' designed to get

gamers personal info. for recruiting purposes!

[RL3AO]

22. Americas Army is a recruitment tool, COD 4 is just a damn good game.

[Breeze54]

31. It is also a recruitment tool.

Play Call of Duty 4 and Join the Army!

http://mbf.blogs.com/mbf/2007/11/play-call-of-du.html

[leeroysphitz]

33. Nope. Just a video game. nt.

[tammywammy]

34. It's just a game

America's Army was propaganda, but COD4 isn't.

[Tektonik]

35. just a game

[Zywiec]

42. It's just a game with cool graphics. n/t

[Basileus Basileon]

54. I plan on buying it. It looks like a good game, just like the previous three. nt

[seabeyond]

55. Hi im seabeyond's 10 yr old son

I play both, Number 1, Expanson and Number 2.
Very good games and cool.
CoD 2 Graphics Rocks and very kool weps. If they were army recruitments then why be single player and be WW2????????? I don't think they would be conditioning you with wwII games. Plus historic battles such as D-day or Stalingrad.

:toast:

Im not an obsessive war person. i have T-shirts with Peace signs that i wear to school in AMA,TX. Beatles ROCK! I would never kill animals. I also teach classmates dumb things bush says. :hippie:

[RL3AO]

56. Call of Duty 4 is not set in WWII. It is in the modern era.

[DS1]

57. He didn't say it wasn't

he was talking about the first three :)

[RL3AO]

58. It wasn't very clear.

[seabeyond]

61. thanks for talking to him guys. appreciate. now booktime and bedtime. n/t

[Bright Eyes]

59. I played a game recently at a friend's house

Called Combat Mission: Shock Force. I'm the biggest anti-war person you can find, and even I (for just a second) thought war seemed cool.

So these things DO manipulate people's minds and dull them to the realities of war.

And of course there's "America's Army" which is made by the Army with the sole intention of recruiting teenagers.

[seabeyond]

60. AA

AA isnt a great game but still kinda fun.


-Still seabeyond's 10 yr old son

[Yukari Yakumo]

65. And there are plenty of realism mods out there too.

And the most famous of them all, Counter Strike.

[and-justice-for-all]

63. I think if people explained to their kids...

that "this is only a game, you can not go and do the things you do in this game, do you understand this?" there just needs to be very defind lines drawn that make it perfectly clear, the makers might want to start put in disclaimers that the player would understand.

So people can rationalize the difference between simulation and reality, while others are not as strong minded and will be unable to distinguish between the two.

[seabeyond]

64. yep.... i made my kids promise they wont go out and shoot people because they play

these games. they promised. wink

[LostinVA]

70. The woman plays all the Call of Duty games

And she definitely doesn't glorify war. Plenty of DUers have met her protesting the war.

[porphyrian]

71. No, just a cool first person shooter, the only real danger of which is sedentary players. -n/t