"I believe that Judge Mukasey is the best we will get "

[MadHound]

Once again we see the Dems are about to cave. The above statement is Feinstein's rationalization about her support for Mukasey. In her opinion, the only other option is having Bush ram through another recess appointment.

This goes to the heart of much of Democratic and liberal discontent. The Democratic party is supposed to be and opposition party, not an enabling one. Yet time and again, despite their bluster, despite the will of the people, the Democrats have caved into Bush's wishes, aiding and abetting a criminal administration.

So what would happen if Mukasey is shot down? At worst, Bush would ram through another recess appointment of another odious appointee. Is that any different from the current practice of the Dems, rolling over for the first odious candidate that is nominated?

It is past time that the Dems stand up to this administration. Let Bush do a recess appointment, let him own, and suffer the criticism for, each and every illegal, immoral act that he commits. All that the Dems are accomplishing by rubber stamping these actions is aiding and abetting a criminal activity. Don't they realize that this also makes them complicit? Don't they realize that aiding and abetting is damn near as bad as the act itself. Stand up to this man, stand firm and loudly tell him NO. Tell him that if he wants to continue down his criminal path, he will have to do it on his own and he will have to fight the Dems every step of the way.

Anything else makes the Dems just as complicit as the Bush cabal. History never kindly remembers the enablers. In fact they receive more scorn and derision sometimes that the criminals themselves. Lest they forget, the Dems should realize that this very well cost them in the election.

It is time for the Democratic party to stand up for the people, the Constitution, the rule of law, and for this country. Anything short of that is simply criminal, and history will not be a forgiving judge.

[BridgeTheGap]

1. The real question is: What will Mukasey do when confronted

with the hard evidence of illegal activities of this administration, particularly on the U.S. attorney firings?
My sense is: he won't do a damn thing about it.

[MadHound]

7. No, of course he won't do a damn thing about it

This is why Bush is pushing so hard for his nomination. He is, despite all of the claims that he is an independent player, nothing more than Gonzalez repackaged. A toady who will do anything for the Bush administration, ignore the rule of law, and help take this country further into darkness. And sadly, the Democrats are once again going to aid and abett this travesty of justice, this sham of opposition.

[BrklynLib at work]

2. How totally pathetic.. Instead of demanding the best, we are forced to settle for the least bad..

x(

[MadHound]

11. Frankly I don't even think that Mukasey is the least bad

I think that he's Bush's little ace in the hole, and the Dems are going to allow him to play it.

[BrklynLib at work]

13. It is so annoying to be outsmarted by idiots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NewJeffCT]

3. shut off the funding for Iraq unless we get an AG that is acceptable

and will appoint a Senate-approved special prosecutor.

[fasttense]

4. Compromising with the devil

Oh so familiar.

One look at Mussolini's rise to power makes it clear you cannot deal with the devil.

Compromise in the face of a revolutionary crisis leads to disaster.

An Italian anarchist leader warned at the height of the revolutionary wave of 1919-20, "If we do not carry on until the end we shall pay with tears of blood for the fear we now install in the bourgeoisie." He was right. Looking back in July 1923 Mussolini bragged that the Italian left had not known how "to profit from a revolutionary situation such as history does not repeat" (But it does repeat it.)

The Italian Socialist Party should have been a mighty force. It had a mass membership and its leaders talked endlessly of revolution. But the leadership believed that all they had to do to win this revolution was wait for it to drop into their laps.

In the end, while workers occupied the factories, their leaders turned their backs on revolution and brokered a deal.

They let the revolutionary challenge of 1919-20 pass them by, preferring to build their party in isolation from the real struggle for revolution. The party focused on parliament, not mass action, and its leaders had no strategy for resisting fascism.

A section of the Socialist Party became so frustrated by the leaders' failure to take on fascism that they broke away to form the Communist Party, inspired by the Russian Revolution of 1917.

the Arditi del Popolo (Shock Troops of the People), organized resistance to the fascist Black-shirts (Black-shirts or Black-water, a rose by any other name...) and inflicted serious defeats on them. The Socialist Party denounced the Arditi for being so militant and then signed a pact with Mussolini – which he, of course, ignored. The Communist Party ordered its members to quit the Arditi's ranks because non-Communists led them!

Outside Italy Mussolini is remembered as something of a buffoon. But he unleashed a cruel violence.

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php?article_id ...

History is so instructive, too bad Dennis Kucinich is one of the few Democrats studying it.

[Ganja Ninja]

5. Any f**king excuse to not confront the little dictator.

It's not "He's the best we can hope for from a president that thinks he's above the law." Mukasey is either worthy of the office or he's not. He's either going to uphold the law regardless of power and privilege or he's not. It's really that simple.

[erpowers]

6. Democrats Must Vote Against Muskasey

Democrats must vote against Muskasey. Muskesy cannot continue to say he is not sure waterboarding is torture. There have been too many people who have come out and said waterboarding is torture. In addition, it seems that before the Bush presidency America recognized that waterboarding was torture.

[MadHound]

9. And if they don't? That is the question before us.

Will we the people continue to vote for them, give them our support when it is so patently obvious that we don't have theirs? It comes down to whether or not we will continue to enable the enablers, aid and abett those who aid and abett the criminal in chief. Are we going to continue to settle for this rigged game, or will we stand firm and give voice to our rage and disgust. Or will we continue with the same ol' same ol' political game and sadly watch as this fine country slips under the water.

[rug]

8. Schumer isn't.

[MadHound]

10. Schumer isn't, Feinstein isn't, and how many more won't once this gets to the floor.

My prediction is that once again, like so many times before, we're going to see the Democrats cave, throwing up their hands in hopeless despair, mouthing the pious excuse that they can't do anything even though they are the majority party and have many significant Constitutional powers.

[yurbud]

15. We have seen this at state level too--Dems fail to use power they had used in past with Sec of State

When Republicans chased our secretary of state out who caught the electronic voting machine techs red-handed rigging them during an election, the Democrats could have left his job vacant until the next election and let his lieutenant take over, which had been done in the past. Instead, they let Arnold choose a replacement and confirmed him over public objection that he would support the machines, which of course he did.

Fortunately, by the time an election rolled around, we did get someone good in, but largely in spite of, not because of, the party organization.

[formercia]

12. Quisling, Petain, the list goes on.

Just say NO!!

[The Stranger]

14. They are forfeiting the right to call themselves the Democratic Party.

[KharmaTrain]

16. They're Right But They're Wrong...

I'm sure the word came down from "on high" that this would be the only nominee this regime would put forward...take it or leave it. Otherwise they would fill the vacancy with goons like Ted Olson or some other Gonzo and run out the clock. Or he would recess appoint one of these asshats. The real problem in the DOJ is how its been corrupted by cheney and addington...who've been running the DOJ, along with Rove, since Ashcroft left.

They're wrong in that if this is the best they can get, then this regime needs to be willing to deal as well. To get this confirmation, there should be a demand that this regime honor the subpoenas from that committee. Here's a chance squandered.

While those of us watching closely here are quick to condemn Democrats that enable this regime, I think it's over-rated with many who will pull levers a year from now. They know whose messed this country up...turned the DOJ into a frat house and pretend that torture is "good"...they're not gonna blame Democrats for that. Buying into the "Democrats are as bad as Repugnican" meme is playing right into a coveted GOOP talking point.

[MadHound]

18. I would have to disagree with you vis-a-vis next year's elections

Frankly, the more the Democrats cave, the more people on the left are getting disgusted, and this is becoming a cumulative effect. People have long memories and rather than blindly pulling the lever for the Democrats, they are going to think back, remember what has happened, and either stay home or vote third party in droves.

This effect is going to be dramatically magnified if Hillary gets the nomination. She is the poster child of the left for the ongoing encroachment of the two party/same corporate master system of government. While she might attract the center and moderates, she is increasingly becoming poison to the left, and even some of the moderates. With her on the ballot, combined with the Dems ongoing failure to oppose anything, it could very well shape up to be a massive let down for the Democratic party. Each opportunity the Dems fail to capialize on, each time the Dems enable this administration simply means that it is another large number of people on the left who will simply not support the Dems any more. Their patience is at an end, their illusions have been shattered, and it has become starkly obvious that both parties are complacent in where we find ourselves as a country today.

The notion that come election time next year all of this will either be forgotten or swept under the rug is a false one, and frankly if this is what the Democratic party is counting on to get them back into power, then they are in for a rude awakening.

[KharmaTrain]

23. So Where Does The "Left" Go?

I'm seeing a lot of fracturing on the Repugnican side. No matter who their nominee is, it will piss off a significant portion of their base. You've got Dobson threatening going third party and I suspect Ron Paul could lead his followers and money out of the GOOP as well into a third party bid next year. Whomever the GOOP nominee is, he'll be running on a platform that is overwhelmingly unpopular and forced, thanks to the primaries and their "base", will attempt to defend the indefensible.

Democrats, while frustrated, are far more united than divided. Those who are digusted with Democrats double that feeling when a Repugnican name is interjected. If Hillary wins the nomination, it will be due to her earning it...winning the most votes in the most states and having the greatest number of delegates at the convention. Millions will have their say in January through March and if you don't agree with whom they choose, then what's the alternative? Nader? Ron Paul?

We're a year out from a very important election that is sure to take a lot of twists and turns. No, people won't forget the Democrats caving to Repugnican obstructism and corporate media bullying...however, the votes behind those curtains will weigh on far more important things...like war, economics, health care...not how some Senator from New York or California voted in November '07 or if they "don't like" Hillary.

[MadHound]

24. "Like war, economics, health care. . ." Exactly my point.

No, it isn't going to hinge on the Mukasey nomination alone. It will be do a build up of frustration. The Dems were brought to power in '06 in order to stop the war by any means necessary, yet they have failed to do that. They have failed to stop the ongoing shredding of our Constitution. They have failed to bring about any meaningful changes in our economy, health care, or any other area. People remember all of this, and will continue to do so at election time.

Remember, the popularity of Congress is even lower than that of the president, that is a serious signal. More and more people are becoming disgusted with both parties for a variety of reasons. As far as what will these people do, well, like I said, they just might stay home in droves. Or even more interesting is that they will back a third party, like the Greens. We have faced this before in our history, when Americans were fed up with the job that the Whigs were doing. They abandoned the Whigs in droves, and within four years a little known party, the Republicans, had their first president in power. I wouldn't bet against this happening again. The disgust with the party is obvious, not just in the polls, but also in the everyday conversations of your fellow citizens.

The Dems are playing with fire here, and could very well get burned to a crisp. If Hillary gets the nod, the left will abandon her in droves, hurting those lower on the ballot. In Congress continues its lack of opposition, not only will the Dems lose, they just might go on the dust bin of history. People are that disgusted and fed up. Look around you, speak to your neighbors and friends. Look at the polls, listen to the pundits. You may not want to believe me, but the proof will be obvious next fall. And frankly, the Democrats will have nobody to blame except themselves.

[KharmaTrain]

26. Whose Frustrated The American People???

I see an obstructionist GOOP Senate that prevented votes on a majority of important legislation passed by the Democratic House. I see an out of control executive that has vetoed bills on troop timelines, children's health care and other important items that was upheld by Repugnican votes, not Democrats.

Sorry, people just didn't vote for Democrats in '06 solely on the issue of Iraq. It was important, but so was massive corruption in the government and the destruction of the economy by the Repugnicans. It was more a vote against them than for Democrats.

Again...if so many people are frustrated, some may stay home...but i'll bet you a bright shiny dime that there'll be more Repugnicans not getting on church busses in '08 than in '04. Where do "disgusted Democrats" turn? I see the stakes too high next year to stay home cause I have something against the Democratic nominee and thus will "punish" the party by enabling a Repugnican to win. Sorry, not gonna play that game.

Again...several million Democrats will have the opportunity to say who the party nominee is. Personally, I have no candidate in this race and I'm very tempted to just vote down ticket in the Primary. I'll let the votes tell me whose frustrated or not, whose electable or not and how disgusted the "rank and file" are with Hillary or Obama or any other candidate.

Again, making predictions a year out of what will surely be a highly contested election in what promises to be a very turbulent year is going out on a limb. Let's see what envelops as the primaries draw closer and people start to pay attention to their primaries...in the meantime it's all conjecture...and a lot of it, dare I say, built on years of right wing talking points.

[MadHound]

27. Perhaps I should bookmark this to see whose respective predictions come true

"but i'll bet you a bright shiny dime that there'll be more Repugnicans not getting on church busses in '08 than in '04." Put Hillary on the top of the ticket and I guarantee you all those churches will be doubling their bus fleet to bring the voters to the polls.

Oh, and in poll after poll, the number one reason why Dems turned out in droves for '06 was to get Dems into power so they could end the war. In this, they've failed miserably.

And if you haven't gotten the message yet, both parties have frustrated the American people. How else to you explain the horrible showings in the popularity polls for Congress? Hell, Congress' popularity is lower than Bush's, that should tell you something. People are waking the fuck up and realizing that there is very little difference between the two parties, and frankly they are wanting a third option. '08 could very well be a signal year when that wish is played out, and the Dems go down. Hell, both parties may just go down, which would be real interesting. People are tired of politics as usual, with the Dem hand washing the 'Pug hand. And out of this frustration two things may happen, either their is large lack of turnout for either one or both parties, or there will be a mass migration to a third party. You don't believe me, fine, go do your own research. But from where I sit(and I've been right way more than I've been wrong), it looks like the Dems could lose in a major way, especially if Hillary's on the top of the ticket.

Oh, and as far as your insinuation that I'm getting my talking points from the right, go shove it. You have no basis upon which to build that case and frankly just because you don't like what I'm saying doesn't mean that I'm on the right. Hell, I'm probably one of the more leftist people you will meet. But I don't believe in sticking my head in the sand, and I have an uncommon ability, through research and paying attention, to read the political landscape. You don't like that, fine, but there is no need to be insulting.

[KharmaTrain]

28. Something Interesting From TPM

http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/11/poll_more_dems_satisfied_with_presidential_field_than_republicans.php

A new Gallup poll shows that 73% of Democrats are satisfied with the current field of candidates for president, compared to only 21% who wish somebody else was running.

Republicans are also satisfied but by a much smaller majority — 51% are satisfied and 41% wish somebody else were running. That number is actually close to the same question for Democrats in October of 2003, when 51% were satisfied and 41% wanted somebody else.

Those are just some of the numbers that have been rolling in of whose more disatisfied with their party. While Democrats have been let down by Congress, Repugnicans also feel deserted from the religious right to the "fiscal conservatives" to the libertarians...the disatisfaction isn't completely measured since polls also show more former Repugnicans identifying with independents now than in the past...and even then they side with Democrats on more issues than not. A 5 or 10% drop in Repugnican voting...especially in bible belt and western states will mean a lot more than 5% of Democrats in solid blue states.

The talking point I'm refering to is the "Hillary isn't electable" meme. It's been a right wing talking point for years and, sadly, I've heard some of the same points coming from people on DU that I have from right wing TV bobble heads. I am not insinuating you are deliberately buying into these points, just that it's a game that Clinton's opponents on the left are now starting to use in an attenpt to further their own candidates. It's politics...nothing personal.

[DeeDeeNY]

17. Is there a way to prevent recess appointments?

What if the Dems just made sure that during recesses, someone was always there, so technically the Senate can't shut down? Would that be so much to ask?

[MadHound]

19. I don't think that there is any way to prevent a recess appointment.

Even if there was, somehow I doubt that the Dems would use it.

[durablend]

20. Irrelevant now, anyway...

Toady gets through...

Thanks a lot Diane and Chucky!

[MadHound]

21. Not irrelevant yet, it now goes to the full Senate in the next couple of days.

Not that I'm expecting much, but we still have the opportunity to contact our reps, beg and plead that they vote against this man.

[paulk]

25. Bush doesn't need a recess appointment

the acting AG, who is a BFEE crony, is fine with him.

That's a point that is continually missed here at DU.

[Atman]

22. Hmm...should I fuck the hooker with Syphillis or the one with Gonnorrhea?

Or should I fuck neither of them, and wait until I find a nice, disease-free lover who will be also be a friend and companion?

I guess if I had absolutely no self esteem and felt I could do no better, then I'd go for the hookers.

.

[cascadiance]

29. What do you expect DINO Feinstein when you don't want to hold Bush accountable!

If you cave into his other wishes, you'll continue to have to satisfy him in places like this too. He'll expect you to! Of course you were a lot more diligent about going after the Justice department before with Attorney Gate. Why did you do that then? Might it be you've cut a deal with Mukasey to not go after you where you were worried Gonzo and his "newer" crew were going to make an example out of you?