Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

POLL: Do you think Bush will start a war with Iran before he leaves office?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 06:00 PM
Original message
Poll question: POLL: Do you think Bush will start a war with Iran before he leaves office?
Just sending up a weather balloon here. Personally, I'm agnostic on the issue of war; there's a lot of variables that have to be accounted for, mainly blind ideology vs. economic reality vs. military reality. This is how I measure things up in case of war:

We have the warplanes and the heavy bombers to rip down Iran's defense infrastructure in days if not hours, with Diego Garcia as being the obvious staging point for B-2, B-1, and B-52 bombers. We've got the naval firepower and capability as well. The Iranian Air Force would likely be wiped out on the ground before they could get into the air with a barrage of cruise missiles targeted at runways, and major command nodes and communication centers will be wiped out quickly. If we're opting for an air war, then we have the necessary number of special forces to help in pin-prick attacks on Iranian targets. Also, I suspect Iranian anti-aircraft defenses, although stronger than Iraq's defenses in the 1990s, will probably be taken out in days as well, probably with the loss of a small number of warplanes. We're definitely going to aim for Iran's nuclear facilities and hit them as hard as possible to set them back. (Whether or not the US attempts to use nuclear warhead-tipped bunker busters on deeply buried facilities is open to speculation)

The big problems though are economic and military in nature. When Iran retaliates, they will not retaliate in the conventional sense with massed armies and warplanes. They will likely use asymmetrical warfare. They're probably going to order their intelligence agents in places like Iraq and Saudi Arabia to begin sabotage operations with Saudi oil pipelines and to begin stepped-up weapons smuggling to Shia militias in Iraq and encourage those militias to begin killing as many US troops as possible in Iraq. On top of that, they're probably going to encourage Hezbollah to begin rocketing northern Israel to provoke a wider conflict in the Middle East and tie up US assets in the region. Since Iran signed a mutual defense pact with Syria, Iran may try to invoke the pact and drag Syria into the growing war to divert US attention and tie up even more US forces in a new front. If Hezbollah is successful in goading Israel to retaliate, then Lebanon may become involved as Israel may attempt to invade to crush Hezbollah.

With such a conflict, it's likely the situation in Iraq will deteriorate even further. It's likely a Shia backlash in Iraq will occur against US troops, and US troops will now have to contend with Sunni and Shia militias with backing from Iranian agents. Worse yet, the Green Zone and other major US bases of operation in Iraq will have to deal with the threat of incoming Iranian scud missiles fired from mobile launchers in Iran. During the 1st Gulf War, the US had a terrible time destroying Iraqi scud launchers precisely because they were mobile. This leaves even less room for the US to address the Kurds in northern Iraq, which would likely increase the chances of a Turkish invasion of northern Iraq in the name of crushing the Kurds and securing the Turkish border.

The economic outlook is grim. The price of oil will be well into the 100s range, and the Iranians will try to mine the Hormuz Strait or use anti-ship missiles on mobile launchers to sink US merchant ships and oil tankers trying to move through. If the Iranians are successful, any oil tankers and merchant ships behind the Hormuz Strait will be trapped. Iranian crude oil will, for all intents and purposes, also be taken off the market during the war. This will cause market panics and oil supply disruptions worldwide. The US economy will suffer massive oil price shocks, and there will likely be massive lay-offs and even higher food price inflation to levels not seen before. A recession, the depths of which are open to speculation, will be extremely likely if war occurs with Iran.

You're looking at the potential for a region-wide war that COULD involve up to six nations in the area. I'm not going to address whether or not Putin is serious about retaliating for destroying Russia's source for cheap oil because part of me is still incredulous to the idea that he would order something like, for instance, the destruction of aircraft runways in Diego Garcia by Russian subs carrying cruise missiles.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. Cheney
seems to believe that we're "destined" to fight them someday, so might as well be sooner rather than later.

I'm firmly in the "not sure" camp.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Cheney ya.
I doubt anyone else could do it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. Strong No
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blashyrkh Donating Member (816 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. It's a matter of "when" not "if".
Edited on Mon Nov-05-07 06:05 PM by Blashyrkh
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
5. Strong Yes-- but only so he can provoke China and Russia into attacking us. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
6. I Just Can't Vote.... I'm Just Scared... Scared He'll Do Something That
will screw up this place even more than I thought ANYONE could!!! Even HIM!!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MnFats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
7. he loves being a war president so much....
...he wants to see that his successor gets a chance to be one, too!


gawd i wish that was funnier than it is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
8. The Democrats Will Stop Him
He won't be able to do it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. The Democrats Have Already Caved in on Iran
I'm not sure whether they are more afraid of Bush**ler or AIPAC, but it doesn't really matter.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The River Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
9. No
I think our military will say no.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
10. No
I don't think a war with Iran would go over well with the Repukes, a party that is already forced to do major damage control a year before the election. I think even the repuke candidates would speak out against it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
11. If they are uncertain whether another puppet will be installed, here,....yes.
They will make sure Jr. bombs on Iran.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
12. No n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
13. He won't have to. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
15. He'd do it just to spite us.
Unfortunately I do believe he will. He's not wrapped too tight.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
16. I'm expecting it just ahead of the elections next year.
Such a move would be in keeping with Bush's style and past performance in a number of ways. Aggression as political theater is Bush's style. Reckless use of force is Bush's style. And leaving successors with a mess they cannot hope to clean up is most certainly Bush's style.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
17. leaves office?!
I don't why people think that's going to happen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Didereaux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
18. Prez Cheney will certainly try his damndest! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
19. Yes and are you sure he is leaving
NWO is coming
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
20. George still has a "Hey Iran" T-shirt from 1979
He didn't know where Iran was then, but he thought it was a kick ass shirt.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
21. "whether or not Putin is serious about retaliating for destroying Russia's source for cheap oil"
Edited on Mon Nov-05-07 11:29 PM by loindelrio
Russia is probably now ahead of Saudi Arabia as the worlds largest producer of oil, and just behind in exports.

The countries that will benefit most from a US attack on Iran is Russia and to a lesser degree China. That is why we are seeing both countries, and particularly Putin, playing both sides in the building crises.

"lot of variables that have to be accounted for"

It will begin, IMHO, like it did in 1914, with neither country (France and Germany) wanting open conflict. But with plans long drawn up, tensions high, and the attitude that if war comes, by God they will finish it, all it will take is a spark, such as an IRGC or US commander over-reacting to an incident.

Also, the public on both sides appear to be over-estimating their own military capabilities. No country ever began a war thinking they would lose.


Putin is ready, once the Republicans attack Iran, to supplant the petrodollar with the petrorouble.

Full of hegemonic hubris, the U.S. government does not understand that U.S. power and hegemony have always depended not on missiles and military force, but on the financial power conveyed by the dollar's role as reserve currency. The reserve currency is world money, good in any country to pay any bill. The reserve currency country is not a debtor in the usual sense. As the reserve currency can be used to settle international accounts, the reserve currency country can borrow at will until lenders lose confidence in the currency. - Paul Craig Roberts

Putin understands. Can't find that oil you must have with 50% of the worlds export market offline (Persian Gulf). Give us your bid, offered and paid in roubles.

Putin is playing the Republicans/Neocons like a chess master. The attack on Iran will be checkmate, with Russia (and to a lesser degree China) winning the game. It would be somewhat entertaining, if we were not the pawns in this final 'Great Game'.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri May 10th 2024, 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC