This week's Catholic Pedophile Priest incident

[dogfacedboy]

This is getting to be waaayy to routine.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/c...0,4809620.story

[Breeze54]

1. As long as you balance it with this week's Protestant Minister peda-vile incident...

;)

[Az]

2. Its the institution of religion that brings about this concentration of predators

Its by no means intentional of course. Its entirely incidental to the actual religion itself. Its really a product of a combination of societal factors and religions reputation of being wholesome and good. It goes a little something like this.

People with predilections that are rejected by society often see themselves as tainted or evil. They do not choose to be the way they are. They just find they have drives and urges that are out of place in society. They are aware of this difference but it doesn't change the fact that they have urges.

So these people have to deal with their issues however they can. Ideally they would go seek professional mental health care. But our system being what it is finances and social stigma can create an environment where they cannot or will not seek that particular form of help. So those that do not seek mental care wind up trying to deal with it on their own.

Those that wish to rid themselves of these drives or demons as they sometimes see them will turn to religion. They are taught that religion is the epitome of goodness. And since they feel as though they are corrupted and evil turning to goodness brings them hope of purging their drives. But it doesn't work that way. So some try to immerse themselves even deeper within religion by joining the clergy of whatever particular sect they belong to. The idea being that immersion in the religion surely must cleanse whatever evil is within them.

And here is where part of the real tragedy kicks in. Because the training for most ecumenical positions requires isolated education methods the individual is removed from the sources of their temptations and urges. It is as if they are given a reprieve for a time. They feel free of the corruption that drove them to this place.

Once they are through the education process they are ordained. And here is the second tragedy. Because the clergy carries with it an aura of trust these untreated predators are now given the same aura of trust. People expose their hearts to these people and draw themselves in close. And with the sudden reappearance of that which drives their urges combined with this close emotional trust it can be overwhelming for them and they cross the line and become an actualized predator.

Training for the clergy does nothing to treat or limit the urges these people feel. They do not choose to feel the things they do. They do not choose to be a threat to society. But a threat is what they are. And the trappings of the clergy just make them all the more dangerous.

[Breeze54]

3. Yea, I know but Protestant Ministers molest more, percentage wise....

Just sayin'....

[Az]

4. Not sure its a contest

Just sayin'....

[Breeze54]

5. Facts are facts. No, it's not a contest...it's sickening!

But to call one denomination out, over another, is wrong.

They're all guilty!!!!!

[DemBones DemBones]

7. Facts are it's 1-2% of ALL men, doesn't matter whether

they're clergy or not. And most are married so they are definitely not Catholic priests!

Instead of all the Catholic-bashing, it would be nice if DUers would discuss how we might solve the problem of adults having sex with minors.

If sexual orientation is genetic, then it would seem that orientation toward children or adolescents would also be genetic. How are we to deal with that very real possibility?

I think educating parents to educate their children is key. It's also obvious some parents need to buy a clue and not allow their kids to be in situations where abuse is possible. Some of the stories about alleged abuse made it clear that the parents weren't really paying attention to what was going on with their kids, or didn't care, which is very sad.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Warren DeMontague]

12. Right, the truth hurts. Far better not to listen to it.

Here's some more stuff you probably don't want to hear:

Pope 'obstructed' sex abuse inquiry

'They are imposing procedures and secrecy on these cases. If law enforcement agencies find out about the case, they can deal with it. But you can't investigate a case if you never find out about it. If you can manage to keep it secret for 18 years plus 10 the priest will get away with it'

Beyond that, oh no. One of DU's most outspoken anti-choicers has me on ignore. What a bummer.

[Breeze54]

13. Baptists: Welcome to the sex abuse scandal club

Baptists: Welcome to the sex abuse scandal club

http://greensboring.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3214

Published on Thu Feb 22, 2007

Southern Baptists urged to root out molesters

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17265721/

Advocates for sex abuse victims in Roman Catholic Church shift their focus

Donna Mcwilliam / AP file

NASHVILLE, Tenn. -

The victims advocates who dogged the Roman Catholic Church over sex abuse by its clergy have now turned their attention to the Southern Baptists, accusing America’s largest Protestant denomination of also failing to root out molesters.

The Chicago-based Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests has started a campaign to call attention to alleged sex abuse committed by Southern Baptist ministers and concealed by churches.

SNAP presented a letter Monday to Southern Baptist Convention executive committee members in Nashville, asking the group to adopt a zero-tolerance policy on sex abuse and to create an independent review board to investigate molestation reports.

Church leaders concede there have been some incidents of abuse in Southern Baptist congregations but say their hands are tied when it comes to investigating complaints across the denomination.

Unlike the Catholic Church, with its rigid hierarchy, Baptist churches are independent. They make their own decisions about hiring ministers and conducting investigations, Baptist leaders say.

“They don’t want to see this problem,” said Christa Brown, a SNAP member from Austin, Texas, who says she was sexually abused as a child by a Southern Baptist minister. “That’s tragic because they’re imitating the same mistakes made by Catholic bishops.”

Group: Sexual abuse underreported

In the past six months SNAP has received reports of about 40 cases of sexual abuse by Southern Baptist ministers — with some of the incidents dating back many years, Brown said. SNAP leaders hold that abuse is typically underreported because being molested is such a painful experience that victims often wait years before stepping forward.

Southern Baptist Convention President Frank Page said the denomination plans to teach its churches how to conduct background checks and to require letters of recommendation for job candidates.

But he said the Southern Baptist Convention, which has 16.3 million members, does not have the legal authority to create an independent board to investigate abuse complaints.

“As much as possible within our structure, we’re going to assist churches,” Page said. “We’re deeply concerned about this. We believe children are the most precious gifts from God.”

Southern Baptists passed a resolution in 2002 urging its churches to discipline ministers guilty of sexual abuse and to cooperate with authorities in their prosecution.

But Brown said that’s not enough. She says the Southern Baptists need an independent review board precisely because there’s no clear chain of command among Baptist churches. The SBC also does not keep a list of ministers who have been accused of abuse. Advocates say this means molesters could move from church to church.

“I believe kids are not safe in Southern Baptist churches,” said Brown, who runs a Web site called the Voice to Stop Baptist Predators.

One SNAP member, Debbie Vasquez, said she was raped by a Southern Baptist minister in Texas when she was 15 years old.

Now 48, Vasquez filed a lawsuit last year against the pastor, the Rev. Dale “Dickie” Amyx and his current church, Bolivar Baptist in Sanger, Texas, about 45 miles north of Dallas. She claims the church knew, or should have known, about Amyx’s past.

Treated as an outcast

Vasquez says she was raped when Amyx was a minister at the now-defunct Calvary Baptist Church in Lewisville, another town north of Dallas.

When she became pregnant with Amyx’s child at age 18, church leaders forced her to go before the congregation and ask forgiveness as an unwed mother. But the congregation was never told it was Amyx’s baby. The lawsuit claims Calvary Baptist helped Amyx get another job at a church in Arizona.

MORE..........

Southern Baptist Convention President Says Denomination Looking Into Sex Offender Registry

http://nacba.net/Article/SexOffenderReg.htm

Bob Allen
04-16-07

Southern Baptist Convention President Frank Page said in an interview aired Friday on network television the nation's largest Protestant organization is looking into creating a national registry of clergy sex offenders.

Page and other SBC leaders have so far resisted requests by an advocacy group, which five years ago pressured the Roman Catholic Church to establish an independent review board to weed out pedophile priests, asking the SBC to do the same.

SBC leaders told the Survivor's Network of those Abused by Priests (SNAP) that Baptists' tradition of local-church autonomy leaves the responsibility for screening ministers to the local congregation.

Interviewed on an ABC News "20/20" program about preacher predators in Protestant flocks, however, Page, pastor of First Baptist Church of Taylors, S.C., told reporter Jim Avila, "If it would help to have some national database, I know we are looking into that."

Asked later about the lack of such a denomination-wide clearinghouse, Page reiterated, "We are looking at the creation of such a registry."

SNAP leaders in February showed up uninvited to a meeting of an SBC Executive Committee work group, which had listed a discussion of the SBC's response to the group on its agenda. In that discussion, it became clear SBC leaders weren't pleased with SNAP telling the media they had been unresponsive to concerns about the safety of children in churches, claiming they had answered every letter received from SNAP.

It turned out a couple of letters from an SBC official were misplaced and discovered later unopened at SNAP's Chicago office. SNAP apologized for the miscommunication.

In an April 5 e-mail, however, Christa Brown of SNAP-Baptist told EthicsDaily.com what she said Feb. 19 is still true: Southern Baptist leaders haven't made "any response of substance or meaning to SNAP's request for action" or done anything to help make kids safer. The missing letter at the time of the February faux pas, she said, was a "brush off" letter from an SBC official mailed in September saying further discussion with SNAP would not be "positive or fruitful."

Despite a rash of recent cases, Page has said he does not believe the problem of sexual abuse by clergy is "large and systemic" in the SBC.

"20/20" provided EthicsDaily.com with what the segment's producer nicknamed her "tainted pastor" list, compiled during a six-month investigation that included stories reported earlier by EthicsDaily.com.

The names included:

--Kenneth Payne, pastor of New Prospect Baptist Church outside Lynchburg, Va.
He claimed innocence but recently was found guilty of molesting a teenage boy he tutored.

--Garrett Dykes of Calvary Church in Wetumpka, Ala.
He pleaded guilty to molesting an 8-year-old girl.

--Larry Nuell Neathery of Westside Victory Baptist Church, in Fort Worth, Texas.
He was convicted of 25 charges of sex abuse of five boys.

--Gregory Stanley Dempsey, former music minister at Oak Creek Baptist Church in Chattanooga, Tenn.
He just started a prison sentence for statutory rape of someone who attended the church.

--John O. McKay of First Baptist Church of in Hondo, Texas. As EthicsDaily.com reported Oct. 11,
he is currently serving a 10-year sentence for a sex assault.

--Doug Myers, most recently pastor of a community church in Florida, was, as EthicsDaily.com first reported Jan. 5,
pastor of Southern Baptist churches in Maryland, Alabama and Florida before he was sent to prison
in January for seven years for molesting a fatherless grandson of a church member.

Despite being convicted of sex offenses involving minors, all six are still listed as Southern
Baptist ministers in an on-line directory at SBC.Net.

"20/20" also found names of four other convicted felons who worked at Southern Baptist churches,
whose names don't show up in the SBC database.

The network found eight more Southern Baptist ministers facing current charges of sex offenses involving children,
minus one recently arrested pastor who claimed innocence and a few days later shot himself to death.

ABC documented four other long-time pastors and church staff members who confessed to past
wrongdoing but cannot be prosecuted due to statutes of limitation.

The "20/20" investigation also uncovered names of two ministerial students currently enrolled at Southern Baptist
Theological Seminary, whose names are listed in an online registry of convicted sex offenders,
a fact reported April 4 by EthicsDaily.com.

Seminary president Albert Mohler and spokesman Lawrence Smith did not respond to inquiries at the time by EthicsDaily.com
about their policy on admitting students with backgrounds including sex crimes, but Smith told a local TV station
just before Friday's "20/20" broadcast the seminary's policy is "not to accept students who are listed on any sex offender registry."

SNIP-->

While the SBC's attorney told Brown they had no record of alleged abuser Tommy Gilmore, he had served for years alongside former SBC president Charles Stanley at First Baptist Church in Atlanta. In 1986 Gilmore was entrusted with arranging child care for 50,000 messengers when the convention met in Atlanta.

Another high-profile case involved a longtime minister at Bellevue Baptist Church in Memphis, Tenn., who served alongside former three-time SBC president Adrian Rogers. He reportedly admitted to Rogers' successor he committed incest with his minor son 17 years earlier, and current pastor Steve Gaines kept it quiet seven months until the victim came forward.

More.....

"This little light of mine ... I'm gonna let it shine" = http://www.lyricsandsongs.com/song/658735.html">10,000 DAYS Lyrics (WINGS PART 2)

http://stopbaptistpredators.org/index.htm

This "little light" shines for the many other clergy abuse victims whose voices have been silenced.

Silenced by shame. Silenced by the false instruction of religious leaders.

Silenced by church shunning and bullying. Silenced by church contracts for secrecy. Silenced by suicide.

The mission of StopBaptistPredators.org is to break the silence of Baptist clergy sex abuse.

Episcopal bishop suspended from ministry for reacting "passively" to another minister's 1973 abuse of a kid.

* Southern Baptist leaders typically don't take action even against reported perpetrators, much less against clergy who keep quiet.

* If Baptists took similar action to Episcopals, ministers like Steve Gaines, Jim Moore, and James Crittenden would be held accountable.

* Lots of denominational leaders would also face consequences.

Read more about Episcopal bishop >

Compare to "hush-it-up" pattern among Baptists >... more.....

:(

[Breeze54]

27. dogfacedboy? No comment?

:shrug:

You aren't trying to keep the molestation in ALL the Baptist Churchs quiet, are you? :shrug:

[malaise]

15. Bingo

Great post.

[Breeze54]

16. Except that isn't true! ~ " Baptists: Welcome to the sex abuse scandal club"

:P

Seems there's LOTS of finger pointing to go around...

So sad...to bad.... argh.... :puke:

Made my point.

[malaise]

21. There's abuse in most churches

but none has the institutional power of the catholic church. You don't have a clue re the number of children abused by priests across the globe. Their power in Central and Latin America, not to mention the Philippines, defies belief. The pope and his minions believe they're above the law.

[Az]

23. Historically they believe they are the source of law

And institutions like that do not forget such things easily.

[Breeze54]

24. I... "don't have a clue?"

How the hell do you know what I have? :shrug:

:P

[Az]

22. Religion could learn from politics: Its the coverup that causes the damage

If the various religions faced up to the fact that there are sexual predators within their ranks and that they need to be removed from their positions of trust then perhaps the damage to the religions reputation would not be as bad. But because they want to avoid any loss of trust they instead cover up these crimes. Thus when they eventually and inevitably come out the damage to the religion is multiplied. As not only does it show that members of the clergy can be flawed but that the institution itself can be horribly flawed as well.

[Breeze54]

9. Well, it does matter, pertaining to this OP.

;)

"...doesn't matter whether they're clergy or not."

In general, concerning the general population, no; it doesn't matter.

But the topic of this OP is Catholic priest pedo-viles and Protestant minister pedo-viles....

[DemBones DemBones]

11. I agree with you. nt

[Az]

19. Its not that the denominations are guilty necissarily

Its not like they actively promote predatory behavior. But there is a history of cover up within various sects. That is reprehensible. And it is because of the aura of trust that members of the clergy enjoy that inspires the cover ups. The scandal of exposure of this sort of crime destroys the aura of trust that members of the clergy rely upon. It is a very serious threat to the roll that nonpredatory members of the clergy require to do their jobs (of course depending on your view of religion there may be no such thing as nonpredatory clergy but thats a completely different issue).

[Breeze54]

25. I get you.....

;)

"Its not like they actively promote predatory behavior"

That did alarm me but I kept reading. ;)

[Warren DeMontague]

31. Right. I don't believe that Catholics are more likely to abuse kids than anyone else, for instance.

What is relevant here is the fact that the Catholic Church Organization has used it's considerable power to cover up for Pedophile Priests for decades, to the point of what seems to me obvious criminal conspiracy and culpability.

I think you also have a set of particular circumstances pertaining to the Vatican per se, because it is a National entity and as such can use things like diplomatic immunity and engage in its own "legal proceedings" which, as we have seen, often amount to hushing up.

[DemBones DemBones]

6. But most pedophiles are married men, sometimes

they're Protestant clergy, granted. Your analysis of why pedophiles become clergy seems accurate enough and a similar scenario may be behind the large number of teachers who are pedophiles. Teaching is a respectable profession.

I don't recall if you mentioned it, but pedophiles also tend to become clergymen, teachers, coaches, because they have access to children. I've also known women who were abused as children by dentists. I have noticed that dentist's offices don't seem to have doors as they used to but doorways and that's a good thing. It protects kids against kinky dentists and dentists against false allegations.

Edit: On re-reading your post, I must strongly disagree that the institution of religion is responsible for pedophilia.

[Az]

17. Teaching runs to a different scenario

Entering into teaching when one has urges relative to children is in no way an attempt to distance or purge oneself of the drive. It is instead deliberate immersion into the targeted group. This is a far more predatory practice. It may well be repeated in religious institutions as well, but in the case of an active predator joining the clergy it would not be for the purpose of driving the urges out. This would be a full on predator looking for cover.

I am not claiming that the institution of religion is in any way responsible. I am saying that it is an attractor for individuals who have urges or drives that place them at odds with society.

[Breeze54]

18. Got a link?

"but in the case of an active predator joining the clergy it would not be for the purpose of driving the urges out"

:shrug:

PROOF???

How the hell do you know what someone's intentions are? :shrug:

[Az]

20. Because we are defining the intentions

The case offered was one where a person deliberately joins the clergy our of predatory desire to use it as a shield. This is an alternate path compared to the one of someone trying to purge themselves of corruption through the clergy.

I think you are misinterpreting what is being said. Or I may not be conveying it sufficiently.

[varkam]

29. I know a few people who have had sexual problems...

that sought refuge in the church. Not even pedophiles, but people with fetishes or various sexual addictions thought that if they just studied the bible hard enough then their problems would be taken from them. Unfortunately, of the people that I have met it has never worked out like that.

[Breeze54]

14. Kicking for the "others'

;)

[Breeze54]

26. A Hardy KICK for the OP & the Baptist Minister Pedoviles!!

;)

:hi:

[mitchum]

28. "Suffer the (tantalizing) little children..." K & R

[lame54]

30. are we down to one a week?