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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 05:27 PM
Original message
Take their money, use their energy, but then distance yourselves from them.
For the over a decade that the Democratic Party has turned message control over to the think tanks like DLC, PPI, and Third Way...all interconnected....they have been taught to think one way. Article after op ed after article from these groups have a common theme about the "grassroots", or whatever name they call them.

They have been teaching the mindset that anyone other than the leaders of the party who make the decisions are not especially worthy to be involved in the planning. They use various names for us...netroots, nutroots, grassroots, bloggers, liberals, activists.

The alarming part is that until 2002 when we were unbelieving that our party would go along with the invasion of Iraq....my husband and I were not really that much of any of the above. I was raised in the fundamentalist culture here, never really questioned it that much until then. It was just part of who I was, who my family had been for decades. I guess before then you could have applied the words centrist or conservative to me.

That is why I am so worried about what our party is doing in going along with so much instead of standing up and fighting back. I would think it would concern them that many other people like me here are questioning their decisions.

I have gathered several examples of what we are facing in trying to be relevant in a party that decided the direction years ago. It will be an unhill battle.

This following statement is absolutely the clearest evidence ever of the role that a corporate party thinks that the liberals, activists, grassroots, netroots should have in the party, the place that should be consigned to them. It is perfectly and succinctly said by a Democratic lobbyist in 2006.

Steve Elmendorf

"The bloggers and online donors represent an important resource for the party, but they are not representative of the majority you need to win elections," said Steve Elmendorf, a Democratic lobbyist who advised Kerry's 2004 presidential campaign.

"The trick will be to harness their energy and their money without looking like you are a captive of the activist left."


Blogs attack as party reaches for center


Alarming, isn't it? At least he admits they need our money if not our loyalty and our votes....doesn't that scare you though that he doesn't think we are "representative" and that we are not part of who they need to win? It scares me.

Simon Rosenberg who helped found the Democratic Leadership Council left little doubt about the purpose of their founding. He has distanced himself somewhat from the leadership such as Al From, but still calls his group the NDN..the New Democrat Network.

Simon Rosenberg, the former field director for the DLC who directs the New Democrat Network, a spin-off political action committee, says, "We're trying to raise money to help them lessen their reliance on traditional interest groups in the Democratic Party. In that way," he adds, "they are ideologically freed, frankly, from taking positions that make it difficult for Democrats to win."
How the DLC Does It


He is right. They do not need our money, thus they do not need to stand with us.

More about their opinions of us:

"My liberal friends are quick to point out that the left's chief grievance is with the war in Iraq, not the war on terror. But what does it do for the image of the Democratic Party -- not to mention the thinking of rank and file Democrats -- when some of our most skilled commentators use a moment of unambiguous terror to first find fault with an American policy (unseating Saddam Hussein) rather than first condemning the terrorists? It's both morally wrong and politically dumb. These musings in the left-wing blogosphere may be read regularly by only a few thousand people, but they seep into the intellectual bloodstream of the Democratic Party. They once again place Democrats on the wrong side of the ultimate issue of our time: winning the war on terror."

Liberals' war


No, you got it wrong. We recognize that the terrorist alarmists are pushing for war. We see that some in our own party are equally guilty of trying to play the fear factor.

And there is the old "there are not enough liberals" theme which is used by the groups that control Democratic policy.

"Since the 2004 election, wealthy liberals, lefty bloggers, and interest groups have been demanding that Democrats reciprocate their opponents' belligerent partisanship. Only by standing up for core liberal convictions, they argue, can Democrats galvanize a new progressive majority and "take America back." It sounds stirring, but there are three problems with that theory.

First, most 2006 voters expressed a strong preference for cooperation over partisan confrontation between Bush and the Democratic Congress. Second, in moderate America, there simply aren't enough liberals to get Democrats anywhere near a majority. Third, liberal and centrist Democrats sometimes interpret their party's core principles differently, especially on such important issues as the use of force, the benefits of trade, the role of government, and questions about religion and morality."
Polarize This


Yes, we do interpret those things quite differently. We are in the majority on the issues. There are a whole lot of liberals around.


In a low point in Democratic Party history, Pennsylvania Gov. Bob Casey was banned from speaking at the 1992 Democratic Convention for being opposed to abortion rights. This year, his son, Bob Casey Jr., who holds the same views, was actively recruited by that same Democratic Party and unseated Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa.

"This was a welcome move in a party that is home to vocal and organized far-left activists and bloggers who have grown increasingly shrill and threatening toward moderate and conservative Democrats. They also have excoriated former president Bill Clinton's brand of centrist politics. They argue for "party discipline," best exemplified by their jihad against Connecticut's Sen. Joe Lieberman for deviating from the party line on the Iraq war. During the past election for Democratic National Committee chair, delegates booed former congressman Tim Roemer of Indiana because he, too, opposes abortion rights."

Election Signals Decline of Old School Liberalism


No, it does not do that. It signals the willingness of the centrists in the party to give up the rights of women to win elections more easily. More of the giving up of the "traditional" interest groups.

And they invariably bring up the Lieberman case to prove the grassroots were wrong. They never point out that Lieberman became the Republican's poster child...they took up his cause because of the Iraq war. That is called dishonesty.

The Democrats in this camp have been radicalized by their anger at President Bush's policies and leadership, which they tend to view as venal and illegitimate. They believe that the Democratic leadership in Washington has been far too accommodating -- some would say feeble -- in its opposition and that the only way to win electorally and legislatively is to fight ire with ire. These polarized Democrats, who fueled the rise of Lamont's candidacy, have gone past disagreeing with the Republicans, to despising them.

They no longer see Republicans as the opposition, but as the enemy.
And they believe that the end of defeating this enemy justifies just about any means. On the other side stands the school of problem-solving"

Lieberman Comes Back

The spin put on the most obvious things is amazing. Problem solving is one thing. Capitulating for the sake of bipartisanship is wrong.

And one of the most blatant outright insults ever printed, a clear sign of how so many of us are viewed. It did not have to posted at the DLC website with only these 3 paragraphs left unsnipped. It should not have been put there at all during these fretful times for our party, but to do it in this way is almost unforgiveable.

Now it's evident that if you want to understand the future of the Democratic Party you can learn almost nothing from the bloggers, billionaires and activists on the left who make up the "netroots." You can learn most of what you need to know by paying attention to two different groups -- high school educated women in the Midwest, and the old Clinton establishment in Washington.

...."The fact is, many Democratic politicians privately detest the netroots' self-righteousness and bullying. They also know their party has a historic opportunity to pick up disaffected Republicans and moderates, so long as they don't blow it by drifting into cuckoo land. They also know that a Democratic president is going to face challenges from Iran and elsewhere that are going to require hard-line, hawkish responses."

David Brooks insults the left, and the DLC posts it prominently


Even our most outspoken Democrats have learned, are learning, that you simply hush if you want to get along. Unfortunately one I greatly respect is becoming that way now. Maybe he is justifying his silence with the thought that his job of rebuilding is not yet finished, and that he needs to win the next election. If that is it, he may be right. Trust me, if he speaks out too much not a single party leader will stand with him.

A conversation today with Mr. Dean is a study in discipline compared with his offhand remarks that were prone to generate headlines four years ago. He doesn’t disagree with the assessment, saying he is “unlike the old me.” Why such caution? “You live and you learn, right?” he replies.

Quiet Dean leads party


The party's congressional leaders have two directions in which to go. They may assume that the activists, grassroots, netroots, liberals are not their enemy after all, that many of us actually have good ideas, intelligence, and common sense....or they will continue to relegate us to the status of fringe

The consequences of that will be a one-party country with no opposition party that is powerful enough to matter.
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Bonhomme Richard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's true. We are not "representative" because...............
we happen to pay attention and, for whatever reason, we are able to keep our eyes on the ball. Most Americans can't see beyond the next 8 hours of work.....if they have it.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. And if you can keep your eye on the ball
you get shouted down. Damn the radical fringe is LOUD!(hint- it's not us, the so called "radical fringe" being loud)
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Americans have options. No job/less than 40hrs/60hr+. Aren't we lucky;
:sarcasm: My husband works no less than 60 hr/wk. Life sucking/no life job. And forget about vacation time. It ain't happening. And in this right to work state he can be fired if they decide that they don't like the way he looks. :argh: Why do working class Americans hate Unions? If it weren't for Unions............well.....:banghead:
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #7
19. People are idiots about unions
without unions, breaks, time off, raises and other such things would probably not exist.

Oh well, some people have to learn the hard way, I suppose. I just wish people like you and me didn't have to suffer in the mean time while they speak against their own interest and ours.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Well, the "policy shop" has an answer for you...
They have a post about jobs. I tend to greatly disagree with them. It sounds pretty fakey to me. The first paragraph really hit me...you know all that "populist" stuff about lost jobs. :think:

The Truth About Middle Class Jobs

"One of the most widespread and durable presumptions about the modern American economy is that good middle-class jobs are an endangered species, threatened by the twin toxins of technology and globalization. This dark vision of a dwindling moderate-income job base has become so widely accepted that large segments of both major parties subscribe to it in one form or another; one is just as likely to hear this "populist" critique from conservative talk-show hosts as from union leaders.

But is it true? Does the torrent of news stories about companies shipping American jobs to less-developed countries actually represent an accurate portrait of a middle-class job market gone bust?

..."Furthermore, the intense concern about the fate of middle-class jobs is inextricably bound up in another set of issues too big to address in any kind of depth here: the fraying of the American social contract and deepening middle-class concerns about such important social goods as health care and retirement security. The increasing cost and fragility of our employer-based health and pension systems adds even greater intensity to any discussion of middle-class jobs; after all, losing one's job in America today can literally mean the difference between sickness and health for oneself, one's spouse, and one's children.

That being said, it is vital to develop a more precise understanding of the impact of trade and technology on job creation. While the Labor Department's unexpected news that the economy lost 4,000 jobs in August caused understandable concern, this single-month decline must be viewed in the context of three decades of employment growth. The American economy is a vast, complex entity, and in formulating policy, it is important to separate assumptions from facts. That is the objective of this paper."


Eeek...I did not read the pdf as this much gave me a headache.



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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
And they accuse us of divisiveness when we call them out for wrongly supporting Bushco, while they practice the worst kind of divisiveness on us.

"Pot, meet kettle..."
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. mad, you are sane. kicked and rec'd.
thank you.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. We are derisively referred to as "goo-goo types"
"goo-goo" is short for "Good Government"..

How cynical is that?
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
6. K&R n/t
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
9. I got a fund raising letter from the DCCC today.
I sent it back with a goose egg for the amount, and a nice letter of explanation.

I'm burnt out, and I'm fed up. A good friend called yesterday (again) asking me to work her state senate campaign. I told her I was sorry, but if she asks again, I'll hang up on her. Don't make me do that, but I'm not working another campaign, to get fucked by the FDP again.

I wonder how many people will actually show up at the FDP convention this week-end. I know a lot of people who are going to Orlando this week-end, but for an anti-war demonstration instead. In past years, all of these people would have been delegates, as I've been the last 3 conventions. I'm not going anywhere near the place, for family reasons, but if not for that, I'd waste my week-end playing golf and watching football.

K&R!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Matt Stoller is going.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1598

And it's a good thing I won't be near him. We of course are NOT going, but one of our friends is a delegate. I would like him to read Stoller's slams at Dean before they see him give the keynote speech.

I am really p***ed with him. I have seen others getting upset with him as well now.

You must be so tired having so much travel right now. Thinking about you.
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
10. madfloridian, you are an absolute treasure
Thanks for everything you post here.

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
11. How about take the lobbyist's money, use their energy,
but distance yourself from them and listen to us?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
12. My message to the DLC
Pre-emptive war has been considered a war crime since 1945. Spying on Americans, incarceration without due process, habeas corpus, torture, have been considered crimes against the constitution since 1776. So what's moderate? Medieval feudalism?
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
14. Kick. (nt)
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bluestateboomer Donating Member (313 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
15. To sit and watch the destruction of the constitution....
Because it means nothing more to them than winning votes.

:argh:
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
16. What they are setting up is the emergence of a new party
to replace one of the two corporate parties
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
17. I wasn't an activist or constantly angry either
Until the 2000 coup. Democrats are stupid if they think the left started the "they are the enemy" talk. The Repukes have been saying that for years. At this point, enough people like me are so disgusted that we say... okay, you want a fight? You got a fight.

Why does EVERYONE, not simply the "left" label the democrats as spineless? Because they will not tell it like it is, and when one of them does, he is excoriated and forced to back down. How often has Cheney or any of his stormtroopers done that? They don't. So they give the impression that they offer leadership... even if it's leadership into the gutter.

As far as the democratic leadership, they won't get one penny from me. If it weren't for the issue of the supreme court, I wouldn't vote at all, or I would vote third party because of the arrogant "leadership" pricks who think they understand what the populace wants.

When you feel that you have no representation (b/c of the dem leadership, or the electoral college), then why should you care if the "party" wins or not? Maybe dems need some "tough love" to stop treating those to the left of them (which seems to be most democrats, and some republicans too) that 2006 was a congressional vote to stop Bush policies, you ignorant pimps to power.

so, the "leaders" of the party do not honor democracy when they only represent one class of people... those who are as conservative as they are. LBJ was an embarrassment as a leader until he redeemed himself with the "waay far to the left" civil rights act. Sometimes leaders need to do what should be done, no matter if the "centrists" (or in LBJ's time, the quiet racists) think it's going too far. (because that was the talk during the civil rights movement, too.

Of anything the democrats have done over the last forty years, the civil rights act was the one thing that has had a good and lasting impact on this nation, has made it more democratic, more inclusive, more moral... and if these same leaders now had been in power then they would have been saying the same things they are saying now.

fuck them.

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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
18. In the Republican
vernacular Democrats are: traitors, scum, fags, Anti-American, terrorists, and so on. They made us their enemy with their maniacal beliefs and corporate media echo chamber. The best way to defeat an enemy is by any means necessary. The DLC and other appeasers haven't gotten the memo. The Chamberlain strategy for dealing with tyrants failed before and is failing again. We defeated these fascists in 1945, only to have them return to our shores cloaked in flags and carrying bibles.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
20. The DLC is the "Far Right Fringe" of the Democratic Party.
Here are some numbers that show how far to the Right the DLC and the Democratic Party "Leadership" really is:


In recent polls by the Pew Research Group, the Opinion Research Corporation, the Wall Street Journal, and CBS News, the American majority has made clear how it feels. Look at how the majority feels about some of the issues that you'd think would be gospel to a real Democratic Party:

1. 65 percent (of ALL Americans, Democrats AND Republicans) say the government should guarantee health insurance for everyone -- even if it means raising taxes.

2. 86 percent favor raising the minimum wage (including 79 percent of selfdescribed "social conservatives").

3. 60 percent favor repealing either all of Bush's tax cuts or at least those cuts that went to the rich.

4. 66 percent would reduce the deficit not by cutting domestic spending but by reducing Pentagon spending or raising taxes.

5. 77 percent believe the country should do "whatever it takes" to protect the environment.

6. 87 percent think big oil corporations are gouging consumers, and 80 percent (including 76 percent of Republicans) would support a windfall profits tax on the oil giants if the revenues went for more research on alternative fuels.

7. 69 percent agree that corporate offshoring of jobs is bad for the U.S. economy (78 percent of "disaffected" voters think this), and only 22% believe offshoring is good because "it keeps costs down."

http://alternet.org/story/29788/

8. Over 63% oppose the War on the Iraqi People.

9. 92% of ALL Americans support TRANSPARENT, VERIFIABLE elections!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x446445


Pleae notice that the above polls are over 2 years old, AND involved Democrats AND Republicans. Today's numbers would be farther to the Left.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Thanks for the poll. Yes, they are the far right fringe now.
But they have the power, the money, and the media access. We don't.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. I'd love to see another poll now.
since that one was done before the mid-term elections, I can bet the numbers would be higher too.

What gets me is that the conservative dems see what they want to see... the midterms were about compromising or bipartisanship with Bushco???????

I don't think so.

and this after the famous repuke "Bipartisanship=rape" comment.

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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
22. Spot on as usual, madfloridian...
...and let me add my voice to thank you for your many excellent posts.

Yes we are being betrayed by our own party. It is sad, really, and there is a true conundrum when voting time comes around. As we all well know, the Nader voters were blamed for the 2000 election debacle. And it is hard to deny that they contributed to the disaster of a Bush presidency (although there is that little matter of the 2004 election...). But the question remains: what the hell are we supposed to do, those of us with progressive views?

I don't have an answer. I wish I did, but I don't. The only thing that might make a difference is a charismatic populist candidate who could start an actual groundswell. But I just don't see it happening.

We are screwn.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
23. Well at least, I believe this sentence to be encouraging.
Edited on Thu Oct-25-07 01:51 PM by Uncle Joe
“These musings in the left-wing blogosphere may be read regularly by only a few thousand people, but they seep into the intellectual bloodstream of the Democratic Party.”

Let us hope, that trend continues. The definition of intellectual

1. of or done by the intellect.
2. appealing to the intellect.
3. requiring or using intelligence
4. having or showing a high degree of intelligence; having superior mental powers.

This reinforces my hypothesis as to why the corporate media trashed and slandered Al Gore, it was because he championed the Internet and they were afraid the American People would become too smart as a result, thus weakening their brain washing abilities by threatening their monopoly on information.

One other point, why do they not refer to the influence of the right wing blogosphere? Do they believe intelligence suddenly makes everyone liberal? Frankly this reminds me of that liberal media myth so well crafted by the Republicans and enabled by the corporate media them selves.


"Second, in moderate America, there simply aren't enough liberals to get Democrats anywhere near a majority."

In my view moderate America are those still living in the corporate media created Matrix, solely getting their information from the handful of mega-corporations that own the media and as the Internet grows in power and influence, more people will awake to what is going on.

Thanks for the thread, madfloridian.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. They are terrified we will "seep into the intellectual bloodstream" too much
We say things that make sense, and we don't usually use talking points.

Of course there are enough liberals. They just don't want us to hang around.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
24. Say it loud, say it proud:
FUCK THE DLC.

That is all.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
26. Spineocrat
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