FRANK RICH: "The Longer We Stand Idly By, The More We Resemble "GOOD GERMANS"

[kpete]

The ‘Good Germans’ Among Us

By FRANK RICH
Published: October 14, 2007
“BUSH lies” doesn’t cut it anymore. It’s time to confront the darker reality that we are lying to ourselves.

............

Ten days ago The Times unearthed yet another round of secret Department of Justice memos countenancing torture. President Bush gave his standard response: “This government does not torture people.” Of course, it all depends on what the meaning of “torture” is. The whole point of these memos is to repeatedly recalibrate the definition so Mr. Bush can keep pleading innocent.

By any legal standards except those rubber-stamped by Alberto Gonzales, we are practicing torture, and we have known we are doing so ever since photographic proof emerged from Abu Ghraib more than three years ago. As Andrew Sullivan, once a Bush cheerleader, observed last weekend in The Sunday Times of London, America’s “enhanced interrogation” techniques have a grotesque provenance: “Verschärfte Vernehmung, enhanced or intensified interrogation, was the exact term innovated by the Gestapo to describe what became known as the ‘third degree.’ It left no marks. It included hypothermia, stress positions and long-time sleep deprivation.”

Still, the drill remains the same. The administration gives its alibi (Abu Ghraib was just a few bad apples). A few members of Congress squawk. The debate is labeled “politics.” We turn the page.

There has been scarcely more response to the similarly recurrent story of apparent war crimes committed by our contractors in Iraq. Call me cynical, but when Laura Bush spoke up last week about the human rights atrocities in Burma, it seemed less an act of selfless humanitarianism than another administration maneuver to change the subject from its own abuses.

.............

Our humanity has been compromised by those who use Gestapo tactics in our war. The longer we stand idly by while they do so, the more we resemble those “good Germans” who professed ignorance of their own Gestapo. It’s up to us to wake up our somnambulant Congress to challenge administration policy every day. Let the war’s last supporters filibuster all night if they want to. There is nothing left to lose except whatever remains of our country’s good name.


more at:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/14/opinion/14rich2.html?hp

[Atman]

1. Tell it Pelosi and Reid.

The best Good Germans out there.

.

[NNN0LHI]

4. When a Democrat regains control of the military and the mercenaries we will find out

Until then we are all playing with fire. If Bush has no qualms about ordering them to murder a million Iraqis I don't think he would hesitate in ordering them to kill some Americans who get in his way.

Hard to imagine that we are in this shape but here we are.

Don

[flashl]

10. IMHO. We need the impeachment hearings ...

to expose and reverse the harm done to this country. Until a forum is created for the American public to review the damage of this administration goverance under the pretext of the constitution there will NEVER be ANY means to recover.

[NNN0LHI]

13. OK. We can impeach and imprison this thug after his term ends

I am all for it.

Don

[rhett o rick]

17. I don't understand your post. If we are afraid to take on Bush now because

"we are all playing with fire", then what makes you think Bush will lets us take over. Now is the time for action. Every day we wait, more atrocities occur and the harder it will be to remove the Fourth Reich from control. Impeach now.

[NNN0LHI]

19. Bush isn't going to "let" us take over

It will have to be done with finesse. I think it is obvious that the man is deranged. Impeaching him now will only raise his approval ratings and make removing him even harder to accomplish. We need to use our brains here. If we need to humor this maniac for another year to get rid of him and allow a Dem to take control so be it.

Thats what I think.

Don

[rhett o rick]

37. With respect, you can't finesse someone that is deranged. Besides

if past history is any lesson his brain (rove) is probably way ahead of us. I believe we have to pick a point to draw a line and fight* for all our might. If the general public isn't with us, we are lost, but if we wait until we think they are with us we will lose for sure.

*For NSA screeners: My reference to "fight" refers to legal and lawful fighting and is not intended to promote or condone actual violence.

[dickbearton]

45. NNNOLHI is right, the votes are not there.

[bvar22]

64. Hey, Don....

Which Democratic candidates do you believe would be more likely to pursue investigations and indictments against the Bush administration after 2008?

AND,

Which candidates would be more likely to just sweep things under the rug, a la Iran/Contra and BCCI?

[dflprincess]

65. Exactly, Bvar

I don't have a lot of faith that just getting a Democrat into the White House will help - it depends on which Democrat.

[NNN0LHI]

72. I don't know

But I do know that if a Republican is elected president there will be Ø chance of it happening.

Don

[defendandprotect]

77. Or Bush, who you're describing as "deranged" may start WWIII if we don't stop him now . . .

he may also cancel elections, declare Military law --

How many more Iraqis and our own troops will die while we're "humoring" Bush?

How much respect would you have if you knew Germans were "humoring" Hitler -- ???

Let's have some respect for ourselves and our Constitution and do the right thing --- IMPEACH!!!

[Le Taz Hot]

108. Yeah, well, Chamberlain

tried to finesse Hitler too. Didn't work out too well.

[sce56]

28. As Zappatta said "I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees"

How do you know we will make it to the next election?

[OzarkDem]

6. and Hoyer & Emmanuel

Vichy Dems

[mod mom]

7. exactly and look how they attempt to undermine Howard Dean. They split

the party for their own corporate agenda.

[OzarkDem]

9. I never give to DCCC anymore

I donate directly to candidates. Emmanuel is using DCCC as his personal treasure chest to get DLC'ers elected and to force Dems in Congress to hew to his agenda.

[mod mom]

12. Me either-only directly to candidates who support a progressive agenda.

:hi:

[CrispyQ]

22. I get my big marker out & write my message on the first page of their stupid questionnaire.

What are the chances they actually tally the responses of those questionnaire? I'll bet it's opened, searched for a check & then tossed.

DCCC motto: It's better to be second in line at the trough, than not in line at all.

[dickbearton]

43. Atman, you sound like a Corrupt Republican's stooge.

[Atman]

62. BWHAHAHA! Yeah, that's me!

Shhhh...you'll blow my cover. Over 16,000 posts so far an no one is on to me yet...you'll ruin everything, junior.

:rofl:

.

[Cha]

67. Atman sounds to me like

he's stating the Obvious.

[arendt]

60. Tell it to cali and jpgray on this board. n/t

[puebloknot]

101. "There are none so blind ..." nt

[spanone]

2. Kick & R

Frank Rich nails it.....a must read

[Octafish]

3. ''...'good Germans' ... professed ignorance of their own Gestapo.''

Make me a bad German:

Know your BFEE: Nazis couldn’t win WWII, so they backed Bushes.

[Cha]

68. The nazis are rising again and

nancy pelosi "respects bush". Do they have a gun to one of her family members when she goes before the camera?

[Octafish]

86. Speaking of NAZIs...

Threatening family members, specifically children, is their M.O.

Lord knows how many they've killed in Iraq, proof is.

More proof:



Prescott Bush, Allen Dulles and Adolf Hitler were an "item."

These are partners in infamy and traitors to the United States.

Allen Dulles, the NAZIs, and the CIA


Supreme Court Justice Arthur Goldberg once stated that "The Dulles brothers were traitors." Some historians believe that Allen Dulles became head of the newly formed CIA in large part to cover up his treasonous behavior and that of his clients. -- Christian Dewar, Making a Killing


Just before his death, James Jesus Angleton, the legendary chief of counterintelligence at the Central Intelligence Agency, was a bitter man. He felt betrayed by the people he had worked for all his life. In the end, he had come to realize that they were never really interested in American ideals of "freedom" and "democracy." They really only wanted "absolute power."

Angleton told author Joseph Trento that the reason he had gotten the counterintelligence job in the first place was by agreeing not to submit "sixty of Allen Dulles' closest friends" to a polygraph test concerning their business deals with the Nazis. In his end-of-life despair, Angleton assumed that he would see all his old companions again "in hell." -- Michael Hasty, Paranoid Shift


The study of the past is beset by uncertainty. Experts on ancient inscriptions can easily get into arguments over whether or not two prominent people with the same name were actually a single individual. The student of modern history doesn't normally run into such problems because our lives today are so well documented. But suppose that most present-day records were to be lost in the course of time, leaving only a few semi-mythic narratives. In that case, future historians might well conclude that the only way to make sense of the twentieth century was by assuming that there were actually two Allen Dulleses.

One Allen Dulles, they would tell us, was the head of a powerful group of covert agents who served the great American Republic at mid-century. The other, who lived and worked slightly earlier, had been dedicated to promoting the interests of the Nazi Reich, which was the sworn enemy of the Americans. Despite the coincidence of names, there could obviously have been no connection between them.

We, with our documentation intact, have no choice but to accept that these two Allen Dulleses were one and the same. But the price of our superior knowledge is that for us the twentieth century threatens to make no sense at all.

How do we begin to untangle this puzzle? Perhaps it would help if we went back to the start.

Allen Welsh Dulles was born to privilege and a tradition of public service. He was the grandson of one secretary of state and the nephew of another. But by the time he graduated from Princeton in 1914, the robber baron era of American history was coming to an an end, ushered out by the Sherman Anti-Trust Act -- which had been used in 1911 to break up Standard Oil -- and by the institution of the progressive income tax in 1913. The ruling elite was starting to view government less as their own private preserve and more as an unwanted intrusion on their ability to conduct business as usual. That shift of loyalties in itself may account for many of the paradoxical aspects of Dulles's career.

CONTINUED...

http://www.enter.net/~torve/trogholm/secret/rightroots/dulles.html

Just another bit of the nation's "forgotten" history. Would more people -- including DUers -- knew.

Thank you for being in this fight, zidzi. It's the dirtiest one, evah.

Oh. And we got a real chance of winning, thanks to you and a whole bunch of good people who care about the Truth.

[Cha]

109. Thank YOU, Octafish!

Sorry, who are the guys in the picture?

[Octafish]

111. Allen Dulles, unknown fellah, Ray Cline.

On the left, Dulles was Director of Central Intelligence during the Eisenhower administration and for JFK until after the Bay of Pigs Thing. Ironically (heh), after Dallas, Dulles was a member of the Warren Commission.

The guy in the middle has a stare similar to that worn by Werner von Braun, but I'm pretty sure it isn't him.

The man on the right was Ray S. Cline. He was a CIA intelligence officer who worked a lot with Mr. Dulles.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKclineR.htm

[Supersedeas]

113. yep...a valid distinction t'it is

[IndyOp]

5. Thank God! Wake up citizens all - WAKE UP! (n/t)

[Amonester]

42. Yes: wake up citizens, and address The Source...

Of "the nightmare with no end in sight" so at least you'll have ONE chance at ending it for good.

Look where the biggest Enron crooks rot these days around, and make sure it's the minimum location where "The Source" (BFEE+PNAC) must follow them in their footsteps...

Don't wait any longer, because the longer you'll wait, the harder taking that ONE chance will become.

[sniffa]

8. how can we know what's happening in those camps?

k&r

[flashl]

20. We can begin by looking within at what we do to OUR citizens in our own Abu Ghraibs ...

Torture, starvation and death: how American boot camps abuse boys," screams a headline in today's Times of London.

Last week, OUR Government Accounting Office reports:

Thousands of teenagers sent to American boot camps have suffered horrific abuse and some have paid with their lives, according to a shocking new report by the US Congress.

If we are doing this to OUR children, what do you think is happening to the "enemy"?

[defendandprotect]

78. People in our prisons -- mainly minorities -- say that great abuse is occurring there -- torture.

We have sadists in charge of America ---

[DURHAM D]

11. This is the same Frank Rich

who has continually made fun of Al Gore for decades - and particularly in the run up to the 2000 election.

Fuck him.

He has done all that he could to bring us to this moment.

Fuck him.

[NNN0LHI]

14. I am with you

He isn't kidding anyone who has a decent memory. Fuck him.

Don

[riverdeep]

18. Yeah, but I'm sure if could see into the future,

and all you really need for that is to look at past pub administrations, but I digress, he probably wouldn't have done it. To turn a phrase Condy likes to use, I don't think anyone could have anticipated the disaster that is George Bush. We all knew it was going to be bad, involving death and corruption of some sort, because that's just what they're about, but how many knew it would bring down the country?

[liberalla]

41. You said it! and I agree....

I knew it was going to be bad, but I never, EVER imagined the amount of damage he's done to our own country, not to mention the destruction and chaos around the world.

[D23MIURG23]

27. Not me. I'll take my allys as they come.

Maybe Rich was less than helpful in the 90s (I wouldn't know I was too young), but he has been a fowl weather friend as long as I have read him.

[riverdeep]

15. Some of us have been screaming since day 1.

We were labeled conspiracy theorists when the 2000 election showed irregularities, traitors when the Iraq war started. We're labeled appeasers today. Even though our track record has been outstanding, and they've gotten everything wrong.

But as long as the masses of people have college football and Applebys and a Sunday barbecue, and as long as the surface of America looks like it has in the past, the masses won't rise up. Don't you know rising up is so '60's anyway? :sarcasm:

Yawn, another day, another highly impeachable offense.

[FREEWILL56]

34. Thank you for saying this as it's so true.

As to how the country turns out is to be expected as little infractions widen to big fissures and all of the big fissures link together to say it isn't what it used to be. This is not America or what America is supposed to stand for and, yes, many of us have said it for many years. It may be too late for the many to wake up.

[defendandprotect]

81. Well, if the 2000 election didn't get Americans up on their feet, what will?

How about the GOP-financed, GOP-led fascist rally outside Miami-Dade Election HQs in order to stop the vote counting ordered by the Florida State Supreme Court -- ???

Or the complete stopping of the vote counting by the US Supreme Court and the Gang of 5 turning the presidency over to Georgie?

If the "illegal" attack on Iraq hasn't brought people out, what will?

American jobs being moved out of the country, legally ....

Our Treasury being bankrupted ---

Our infrastructure falling apart ---

Using the DOJ to protect their own crimes and to do harm to whistleblowers .... torture, spying, big brother, government financed propaganda . . .

what will?

what will . . . ????

[lonestarnot]

16. Nut'n but nut'n.

[Major Hogwash]

21. But, we aren't the ones that are standing idly by, Tell it to Congress!

Hell, my Senator has done his damnedest lately what with all the toe tapping he has done in airport restroom stalls around the country to help spread the message that riverdance was a success - what else does Rich want from him?

Craig & Crapo - sounds like a high-end specialty toiletry item maker to me.

[SergeyDovlatov]

23. we didn't just stand by. We elected democrats in 2006 to stop the insanity

Just need to get a little bit of courage and try, convict and impeach!

[Cha]

69. We had such high hopes

for that congress and here it is Oct, 2007 and some are still giving the hemmers and the hawers a pass.

Isn't that why bushit got so prevasive and invasive? Because, of course, our corporatewhoremedia and our dlcers kept handing out free passes to roveinkstain?

[alfredo]

24. Kick

[nashville_brook]

25. here's the "good germans" DU threads from a couple of weeks ago...

just to reality check...


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1883540

[otohara]

26. Every Man, Woman & Child Could Have Protested Invasion

and it would not have made one difference. They had the media and their massive lies, they were going to have their war no matter what.

[nashville_brook]

54. in 2002 it seemed like every man, woman and child WORLDWIDE was protesting the invasion

it was truly amazing. and, you are correct -- it had no effect. the media was lathered-up and ready to embed.

i'm thinking that the leaders in the media are prolly waking up now (Olbermann had something to say about this last week -- discussing how media leadership insisted Bush get a complete free pass after 911), and this "good german" meme is working some magic. it makes sense from a marketing standpoint, if this "good german" meme takes hold, uncritical journalism might just become worthless as a commodity.

[AllyCat]

79. I saw all the people at the protest in my city. The media wouldn't cover us

Even my husband, who initially supported the invasion, saw the reality of it and joined the march with me before it started. There were so many people. The media went on blackout. People drove by us honking in support. Few seemed to jeer or one-finger salute. The cops were on edge. We were peaceful. The only press I ever got was an Austrian newspaper (reporting in Milwaukee). Not one other news source covered us. It was so frustrating.

[WillyT]

29. Big K & R !!!

:kick:

[City Lights]

30. A big K&R to this must-read! eom

[McCamy Taylor]

31. Good read, but he underestimates American anger. It's just we have

been taught fear the government and to believe that it is much too powerful for individual citizens to approach with their opinions. Only those bearing large gifts of $$$ are allowed to influence the workings of the US federal government, we are told. So, in a way, it is more like we are Good Soviets.

[orleans]

32. no shit! k&r. n/t

[elizfeelinggreat]

33. a little bit angry

That's what Mr. Rich made me. I don't know where he's been but a lot of us have NOT been ignoring the issues.

Where the bleep was he when millions protested? How dare he sit in his comfy chair and say we are sitting idly by? Does he want me to lay down in the road and let the Secret Service run me over to make his conscience feel better?

My memory hasn't been wiped out by the media's CONSTANT betrayal of what's going on - and yes, you were a part of that media before you weren't ... I remember what you said about Gore and Bush - have you changed your mind? Then please, amplify your own power.

Do I sound angry? You bet I am. I'm getting angrier as I type this. Where the heck was he when I protested, when I knew there were no WMDs, I KNEW Bush was lying to us, I KNEW and so did most of the people reading my post - WE KNEW. Did he forget that? And we told your employer, Mr. Rich, and we told our Congress and we knew but they ignored us. They ignored us and now, Mr. Rich who has more power in his column than you and I could ever have - even if we gave up our jobs and marched every day since Bush was elected, wants to berate "us"? Please, spare me that insult, Mr. Rich. I know that the majority does NOT approve of this war and this administration's behavior.

So remember, there is no "us" anymore, only "them". They chose their with us or against us ideal and they can now live with it. Leave me out of it, sir.

Our voices are not heard for one big reason - THE MEDIA - which he is part of. FRANK RICH can get LOUD, Frank Rich can use TV, radio, whatever outlet he has access to so I suggest he try harder, too. He's much more able than we are to get some attention from those who pretend we don't exist.

I know I'm ranting a bit here but I'll be very happy to see Mr. Rich put some action behind his own words - and I don't mean more blame on "us" but more attention-getting-media-changing action. Frankly, I'm tired and a bit disheartened but I fight on. I don't care to have him insult me anymore, thank you, I am neither complacent nor comfortable.

[nashville_brook]

52. if you're angry, you haven't succumbed to the "good german syndrome"

you are correct in pointing a finger toward the media -- they have the worst case of "good german syndrome."

to me, this column is written in the voice of someone who has risen from their patriotic somnambulism, and wishes to shake others out of their nappy-time. yeah, i get the latent hypocrisy, but i'm glad to see *someone* in the media begin to speak up about this.

if you're angry, you're awake and paying attention. this is a powerful meme, and I hope it shakes Congress out of their coma.

[me b zola]

63. Wonderfully said

to me, this column is written in the voice of someone who has risen from their patriotic somnambulism, and wishes to shake others out of their nappy-time.

:thumbsup:

[Mythsaje]

94. Welcome to DU!

And you're right as rain. Accusing US of "standling idly by" when HE helped bring this about is a bit disingenuous, isn't it?

[Kurovski]

35. K&R. (nt)

[ooglymoogly]

36. What did we expect to happen when our own gestapo

was given the green light to jackboot and batter doors down, invading a home on mere gossip or made up anything or even a smell and to stop any car for no reason whatsoever on a fishing expedition perhaps finding some grass confiscating the home, car and tossing the people in gulags or onto the streets.
The police state has been growing since the phony war on drugs began and most "good Germans" stood by nodding their heads in approval and are still doing so because our corporate media tell them anything to get the job done. In Reagan's day and even further to Nixon the propaganda was and is so blatant it would make Herman Goering blush. "Maryjane would lead to insanity and worse", "it rotted the brain" to name just a few...all false and pure propaganda by and for the benefit of the drug, alcohol and tobacco corporations. What is happening now is only an extrapolation of that phony war leading up to today and all of it has been a boondoggle for the repukes. All the phony wars have been a bottomless troff of money and power for the repukes leading us to the conclusion that a significant portion of our population are idiots and indeed nothing but "good Germans", The Repukes have harnessed that idiocy and they learned that trick from the televangelist swindlers which most of them would aspire to be if they were not already in the same business as greedy politicians.

[mother earth]

38. I've no doubt there will soon be a revolution. The election in

2008 is going to be pivotal. If people are satisfied that the elected is truly the people's choice perhaps it won't be needed.

We all can see what's taking place. But, God help this country when we are lied to again.
I'm ready, and I'm a mom and an average citizen, I'm convinced I'm not the only one feeling this way. Fool me once, shame on you, (well it took me the stolen 2004 election for me to truly believe the theft machine) fool me twice, shame on me. After 9/11, I realize the extent of the corruption. One more thing will be the tipping point.

I still believe there's such a thing as an honest man in politics, that's why I love Gore, Edwards and Kucinich. But, in my heart I'm ready and it may come to this. I'm not such a good German afterall, and I believe I'm in good company.

[ooglymoogly]

40. So true...you picked the same three as honest that I also think

are the only honest men, however I would add Clark. I hope any of them if they get past the primary will choose RFK Jr. or Clark or any combination of any of these men that I could get out and work for.

[The Stranger]

51. There is a disease that is killing the nation, and it needs to be eradicated.

[bdamomma]

104. that disease needs to be removed and quickl y before it does more

damage to us.

[pokercat999]

99. There will be no revolution, when ordered, the sheepeople

will calmly walk into the ovens. Resistance is futile, they have won. Gore, Edwards and Kucinich have no chance. Gore knows it, that's why he will not "run". Hillary is one of them and has already been anointed. The choice will be between two of the same, with some minor window dressing to disguise the fact that there is no difference.

So that leaves us with the question. What is a revolutionary to do? Your choice may me limited but not a simple one. Fight and die or become one of the sheep and follow your master. If you wish to fight make sure you're fighting the right enemy. The government is the "face" of your enemy but the heart is the CEO and the corporations of the world. A bullet to the heart in the shape of nationalization of key industries such as health care, insurance, banking and other service industries may be the place to start. The elimination of unfettered capitalism must be the result of any worthwhile revolution. Not all capitalism just unrestricted capitalism.

At least that's my Monday morning 6 AM opinion. Now I have to get ready for work so I can go and pratice some of that unfrettered capitalism.

[tomp]

106. wow, you go from resistance is futile...

...to nationalizing industry! how's that gonna happen?

[pokercat999]

110. I don't think it will. My point was IF you want to revolt make

sure you are choosing the right enemy. Multi-national corporations are the real enemy as they are the "man behind the curtain". Governments especially democratic republics are just window dressing for the controllers of the government, the corporations.

That's my 8 PM opinion, not much different than 6 AM.

On edit, I thought "nationalizing industries" sounded much better than "First kill all the CEO's".

[gateley]

39. K&R nt

[Cronopio]

44. Beautifully written. K&R. nt

[Luminous Animal]

46. Frank Rich has his "Nazi Moment"

I posted this on the other Frank Rich "Good German" topic but I think it deserves to be posted again.

It was written by my friend Fire With Fire 3 and a half years ago. I also posted it on DU at that time and it garnered a lot of response.

I have a lot of respect for Fire With Fire. He has been remarkably consistent in promoting the intentions of Bush and the PNAC and a consistent campaigner for citizen action. Not so with Frank Rich who, a few short weeks ago, joined the knee-jerk bandwagon of criticizing Move On for taking critical action. That is, NOT being "Good Germans".


That Nazi Moment

http://www.upsizethis.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=12746

By Fire With Fire
May 31 2004, 07:03 PM

From time to time, here and at our predecessor board, somebody raises the question of how much Bush is like Adolf Hitler. The conversation is invariably shallow, with the world-weary eggheads rolling their eyes out of their sockets while trouncing the angry lefty who raised the question in the first place. Bush offers no hint of wanting to exterminate the Jews or any other similar genocidal madness, and that pretty much kills the comparison for any practical purpose.

I bring up Hitler in the same breath with Bush for another reason altogether. I assume that Bush will never propose mass executions and he will therefore never deserve to be called "another Hitler." But he damn sure is a sui generis W -- and the depth and breadth of what he is capable of doing is still unknown.



For people living in Germany, there never was a point where either the aspiring Nazi Party or the governing Nazi Reich ever announced:

"We are nihilistic madmen who will start unprovoked wars against Poland, France, Belgium, Holland, Norway, Yugoslavia, Great Britain, Greece, the USSR and the USA -- and try to conquer all those societies at once. We will attack the cities of our enemies from the air in an effort to destroy their civilization, so that we can take over and demand fealty from everybody on the planet. We will hunt down and slaughter all the Jews and Gypsies in Europe, because we think the world will be a better place after they are gone.

"We know that our wars of aggression and our systematic genocide will induce the most profound anger the world has ever seen, and millions of our people will be killed in this regime of Total War. There is a chance that we will lose this war, as we will be signicantly outnumbered by our enemies. If we lose, our country will be occupied by foreigners who will define our future for us.

"Nevertheless we have a vision for the future of our Folk -- and our destiny is to rule the world as we are the best people on earth."


History shows that thousands of people, particularly German Jews, foresaw parts or all of this fate in advance. But millions of Germans, and millions of people the world over, did not believe that Hitler would really be as bad as all that. In hindsight, it is easy for us to say that everybody should have realized that the man was a psychopathic lunatic. But for those that figured it out ahead of time, they must have had a Nazi Moment -- the last straw that confirmed that Hitler really meant to bring death and destruction to the entire world.

I have often wondered about That Nazi Moment -- what it would be like to be a student in Munich or Dresden or Berlin in 1933 or 34 or 36 or 38? You could choose to believe that the authoritarian measures of the Reich were unfortunate but beyond your control. You could regard the harassment of Jews to be unfortunate but beyond your control. You could regard the bizarre symbolism and mass hysteria of the Nazi movement as unfortunate but beyond your control. You have your own life to lead in any event. By seeing the future accurately, as some did, you pretty much condemned yourself to death or exile.

In 2004, you really can't know for sure what the Bush Administration is capable of doing. But here are the pieces of a puzzle that could match anything that Hitler did:

1. Ideology. The Project for a New American Century contends that the USA has determined the correct political structure for all societies -- secular democracy with free markets. It is now the official National Security Policy of the United States to use our military to coerce other countries to adopt this "single model" of national development.

2. War. The incumbent President has responded to the crimes of September 11 by declaring war against all "evil." This preposterous formulation carries no limiting context, no practical guide to discriminating more evil from less evil or evil from the merely awful. In practice, this purposefully vague theory of fighting evil has been used to link a war against Afghanistan (which was partially responsible for the September 11 attacks) to a war against Iraq (which had nothing to do with September 11) on the grounds that Iraq was run by the sort of people who would commit further acts of terrorism if they had the chance. Tens of millions of Americans support George W. Bush's war against Iraq for precisely this reason. Obviously, this rationale for war is infinitely elastic.

3. Power. The current government now claims the right to designate any American citizen an "enemy combattant" with no means of questioning the designation. Anybody so designated is thereby stripped of citizenship, and all constitutional rights. No courts, no lawyers, no press, no calls to friends -- just, poof -- you are now an un-person. Meanwhile, the current government contends that its troops in the field are answerable to no law other than that of the military command structure.

4. Prisons. The current government has already built a chain of detention centers around the world that are shrouded in secrecy and where physical coercion is at the sole discretion of the jailers. The information age has made it impossible to keep all of the details of these installations secret -- bizarre sexual rituals and systematic degradation are the tools of choice in trying to coerce detainees to give up information about other targets of the infinite war on terror.

5. Dishonesty. Here is where it gets frightening. The only limit on any of these four elements of infinte control is the conscience of the government. They start from the premise that they are fighting evil, and therefore they define themselves as good. All abuse and any mistakes they make are always cast in contrast to the Evil of Osama bin Laden or Saddam Hussein -- we may put underwear on your head, but they will cut your head off. If you go further and challenge their motivations directly, they declare you a supporter of the terrorists. These cheap rhetorical games are bad enough, and ought to scare anybody with half a brain to death. But when you realize that these are all serial liars who never tell the same story twice, you realize that what deep shit we are in when they say, "Trust us."

Well.

At least they're not Hitler. At least they're not gassing Jews. At least they're not killing their political opponents.

So here's the question. Let's view everything about Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Ashcroft in the most favorable light as of June 1, 2004. Let's regard all these assertions of unilateral power as designed only to prevent further terrorist attacks against the US and our allies. Let's assume that only real terrorists are likely to be sent to Gitmo without due process of law.

OK, for now.

What should a vigilant American be on the lookout for in case these guys aren't as good as they claim they are? What detail would convince us that instead of earnest men trying to protect the citizenry we have nihilistic madmen driving the whole world toward death and destruction?

What would be that Bush moment?


My fear is that Bush and his colleagues believe that the demographic shifts in America that obliged them to sue to their way into the White House in 2000 have convinced them that the American experiment with mass democracy must come to an end. The War on Terror is their stalking horse for shitcanning the whole business of individual rights and popular government. They dream of conquering the Middle East, just as we once conquered the American West, and they realize that they cannot make this happen within the four corners of the Constitution.

They believe that America must be recast into a permanent warfare state, with millions of young people trained to occupy Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Iran and Saudi Arabia. Democracy must be controlled or abandoned, and all who might interfere with their grand vision for Global Empire must be suppressed by whatever means necessary.

I fear that these messianic madmen are psychologically incapable of grasping the concept of defeat -- that they are all overgrown adolescents who cannot govern their own petty egos. So they have carefully set up the mechanism for a global police state under cover of the catastrophe of September 11, assuming that once their dream is accomplished and all the Middle East is tamed, then the American People will bow down at their feet to worship the men who had the boldness to capitalize on the opportunity of being the only superpower at the dawn of the New American Century.

Their minds cannot grasp the possibility that we might get our asses kicked on the ground in the Middle East.

So, assuming for a moment that the PNAC manifestos should be read like Mein Kampf, what should tip off the average American that we are not dealing with honest men trying to protect us from terrorists, but instead are faced with a gaggle of bloodthirsty fools consumed by the painfully familiar dream of Napoleon and Hitler?

The one answer that I will not accept is they wouldn't do that. That's what the people who stayed in Germany thought.


Personal note: I WAIVE ALL COPYRIGHT PROTECTION FOR THIS POST. FEEL FREE TO CUT AND PASTE THIS ENTRY TO ANY OTHER VENUE.

[Disturbed]

47. Pelosi needs to resign as Speaker now.

"I do not see the connection between torture and impeachment." Nancy Pelosi

[nashville_brook]

55. this is fabulous. thanks for x-posting.

As depressing as this stuff to ready, I find it heartening that it only takes one Nazi Moment to begin to change behaviors. Once you've digested this, there's no turning back.

Frank Rich has not been a good friend to the antiwar movement, and nor has much of the mainstream media establishment. May they all have their Nazi Moments sooner rather than later.

[Luminous Animal]

82. You are welcome!

I must stress that it is up to us, the citizens, to force back this erosion of our civil liberties.

I am an advocate for a general strike but I don't have the time to do the coalition work necessary to get at least a million people out of the workplace and on to the streets.

I know that it is not "fashionable" to partake in mass public action but history tells us that it is the main recourse to oppression... Exercising our right to assemble and petition can have results. Recent history also tells us that Saturday protests now and again can and will be ignored. We have to hit them in their pocket book in order to get them to listen.

[nashville_brook]

88. Harper's Magazine this month (LINK) calls for a general strike

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2007/10/0081720

i read it thinking exactly that -- how the hell do you get a million people to do the same thing at once?


from the editorial:

I wrote this appeal during the days leading up to the Fourth of July. I wrote it because for the past six and a half years I have heard the people I love best—family members, friends, former students and parishioners—saying, “I’m sick over what’s happening to our country, but I just don’t know what to do.” Might I be pardoned if, fearing civil disorder less than I fear civil despair, I said, “Well, we could do this.” It has been done before and we could do this. And I do believe we could. If anyone has a better idea, I’m keen to hear it. Only don’t tell me what some presidential hopeful ought to do someday. Tell me what the people who have nearly lost their hope can do right now.

[Luminous Animal]

92. Wow!

Thanks for the link. I think the first step is people organizing face to face. There is strength in numbers and it is much easier to take the leap if you know the people willing to leap with you.

[hfojvt]

83. nice post, but unfortunate to equate Napoleon and Hitler

and also, we are probably not nearly as militarized as Deutschland was. In the three years since that was written, we do not seem to have gone any further down the road. We do not seem that different from 2003. We had elections in 2006 in which Bush lost big, in spite of Cheney personally flying into my district the week before the election. We no longer have the periodic "terror alerts" although the Bush Administration now seems to be regularly releasing "Bin Laden messages".

[Luminous Animal]

91. RE: Napoleon and Hitler

The equation was specific to their goals of Empire. That Hitler had another grotesque pathology had nothing to do with his point. That is, both megalomaniacs usurped power despite their respective democratic systems. The democratic French Senate destroyed the French republic when it ceded unitary power to Napoleon. The German democratic government when ceded to terror fomented by Hitlers supporters and declared martial law.

And I completely disagree that we've not gone further down the road. Patriot Act II was passed. Torture has not been challenged and thus, by inaction, codified. The Republicans have turned the justice department (and other departments) into their own private good squad. Congress is poised to grant immunity to telecoms, and by extension, the Bush administration, for their felonious eavesdropping.

[hfojvt]

93. I am fond of Empires, if not of Emperors

"The average Frenchman in 1800 was no more unfree than the average Englishman. The French Empire could have brought Europe together, and could have been liberalized from within, and there might have been no World War I in which Western civilization cut its own throat. Because that's what happened, you know. We're still busy bleeding to death, but we haven't got far to go now." Poul Anderson 1973 "There will be Time"

That's probably my bias though since the European History book that I read in college was very positive about Napoleon and the French Empire.
What they did with their unitary power was radically different.

[Karenina]

114. "we are probably not nearly as militarized as Deutschland was."

You typed that with a straight face, no smilies were attached. Meine FICKEN FRESSE!!! :wow:

[EV_Ares]

48. Kick; yes those of us are very much to blame for allowing this president

to continue his ways and just standing by. I really have no idea what it will be to push the american people over the edge where they will scream for the removal of this president.

I really think everyone is just thinking let the election run its course and he will be gone anyway.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. Any state of this type cows the population

This is the truth.

[redacted]

50. Our DVD movie last night was "Judgment at Nuremberg," a MUST SEE FOR EVERYONE

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_at_Nuremberg

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/MovieSpeeches/moviespeechjudgmentatnuremberg1.html

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/MovieSpeeches/moviespeechjudgmentatnuremberg3.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKjma6Jyz2w

Available at Netflix

[JDPriestly]

76. I would also recommend the film on the testimony of Eichmann

at his trial. It is a documentary, I believe.

[puebloknot]

100. The line I keep remembering from "Judgment at Nuremberg"...

...comes when the convicted German judge tells Spencer Tracy, (paraphrasing from memory), "I never thought it would come to this."

And our prosecutor's reply (the Tracy character): "It came to this the first time you sentenced a man to death that you knew to be innocent."

That sums up for me the fall of the United States of America. Our whole Congress (with a few exceptions), and certainly the Supreme Court and the Executive began dismantling our democracy with their first acts they knew to be unconstitutional. Of exceptional note is the Bush v. Gore decision, which will live in infamy throughout time. It came to "this" -- what we're living through now -- the first moment that court made a decision it had to know was unconstitutional and was made for purely political purposes.

Yes, that film is very instructive. Anyone who wants to deny comparisons between 1930's-40's Germany and here and now should see it.

[krj44]

53. the play on words that bush

uses could be similar to a movie conspiracy staring kevin brangh.they manipulate,twist words to get the result wanted.

[The Wizard]

56. The Times must have figured out

that leaning right and deferring to Busch (German spelling) reduces circulation. Comparing Busch to Nazis is OK. It used to be that when Nazis were used as a comparison everyone would jump up and down and stamp their feet.
Ladies and gentlemen: "We have nothing to fear but fear itself."
Maybe the corporate media is getting the message. If we the majority refuse to buy what their selling, they're out of business. Tax cuts are only good if you're making taxable profits.

[mnhtnbb]

57. If Frank Rich can compel enough of the masses to get off their asses

and join those of us who've been HOWLING and PROTESTING and PHONING our Reps, descending on DC for marches, writing LTTE and posting in forums such as DU since BEFORE the war, then maybe, just maybe, something will change.

But damn you, Rich, take responsibility for your bosses who've been behaving like 'good Germans' all along.
Some of us saw this coming.

[Swamp Rat]

58. There is a curious absence

of certain posters in this thread who might disagree with this NY Times article. I hope they appear to state their case against Frank Rich's Nazi reference in his statement: "Our humanity has been compromised by those who use Gestapo tactics in our war."

[Cerridwen]

59. You noticed that, too, huh?

I just clicked over here looking for certain names and noticed them conspicuously absent. Things that make me go, hmmmmmm.

:D

[arendt]

61. Yeah, but its refreshing, isn't it? n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

73. It is, but if we are not careful

the mods will say we are looking for a fight

;-)

That said, I was pleased not to see the usual IGNORE

[Cha]

66. Thanks for writing this, Frank Rich..

laura bush thinks the human rights atrocities in Burma are deplorable but condones bushits' human rights violations.

[bvar22]

70. K&R

Why is this thread so unemcumbered with bullshit?

So refreshing to not have to edit out the Red Herrings, Strawmen, Circular Logic, Ad Hominums, and childish personal bickerings.

Must be nap time.


The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[cullen2382]

71. Anyone ever read On Hitler's Mountain

It was written by Irmgard A. Hunt. She was a child/teen during Hitlers' reign. It tells the story of her family and her neighbors who were all good little middle class germans. The parallels that jumped out at me between then and now scared the crap out of me.

The first one that jumped out at me is this paragraph out of the preface:
Once the war ended and we were recovering from its anxieties and privations, we slowl began to realize to what degree the Nazis had shaped our minds and every detail of our daily lives, and the enormity of German guilt. I also began to appreciate those people, like my grandfather, who had expressed doubts, who had dared to be critical, and who, though basically powerless, had made brave attempts at resistance. They made a huge difference in my readiness to welcome the end of Hitler's reign and embrace new values despite the sadness over our many sacrifices and losses. Even then I made up my mind always to be on the lookout for the signs--however insidious and seemingly harmless--of dictatorships in the making and to resist politics that are exclusive, intolerant, or based on ideological zealotry and that demand unquestioned faith in one leader and a flag. I hope that young people everywhere learn to recognize the danger signs and join me in the mission to prevent a recurrence of one of history's most tragic chapters.

[Swamp Rat]

74. Hitler quote:

"It is a quite special secret pleasure how the people around us fail to realize what is really happening to them." - Adolf Hitler

Thanks to DUer RFKin2008 for reminding me of this.

[calimary]

90. I remember seeing another quote from that individual that shook me to the core.

It's become one of my all-time favorite quotes:

"What luck for the leaders that men do not think."

Oh, man...

[lostnfound]

97. They are taught not to think in the school system.

It is quite shocking to me to see the amount of conformity imposed on children from Day One in the schools. I am of the mind that it isn't accidental.

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. No, but thanks, taht will be added to the readying list

that paragraph sent chills

[JDPriestly]

80. I also recommend the book, They Thought They Were Free

by Milton Meyer

[DearAbby]

87. Thank you will add it to my "Must read list" :)

[puebloknot]

103. And I keep recommending "Defying Hitler" by Sebastian Haffner

"Defying Hitler: A Memoir
Sebastian Haffner

Weidenfeld and Nicolson 2002
A book review by Danny Yee © 2003 http://dannyreviews.com/
In 1938 Sebastian Haffner (Raimund Pretzel) fled from Germany to England with his Jewish wife. In 1939 he began work on an account of his "duel" with the German state, a personal story which was at the same time a study of German psychology and Hitler's rise to power. Only partly completed, this was not published until after his death in 1999, as Geschichte eines Deutschen ("the story of a German"), translated into English now as Defying Hitler. It is in many ways remarkably prescient, most notably about the Final Solution and the overall course of the war, and there have been challenges to its authenticity — addressed in a brief afterword by Haffner's son and translator Oliver Pretzel.

>>snip


"It was just this automatic continuation of ordinary life that hindered any lively, forceful reaction against the horror. I have described how the treachery and cowardice of the leaders of the opposition prevented their organisations being used against the Nazis or offering any resistance.That still leaves the question why no individuals ever spontaneously opposed some particular injustice or iniquity they experienced, even if they did not act against the whole. <...> It was hindered by the mechanical continuation of normal daily life."

[puebloknot]

102. Thanks. I hadn't heard of that book.

We need to work this information into a video game because it seems that's the only way a lot of young people will ever get it -- not to mention their parents who think all that Nazi stuff is just the dreams of people caught in the past.

[earth mom]

84. Wake up America! nt

[AllyCat]

85. This was a great quote.

“We got more information out of a German general with a game of chess or Ping-Pong than they do today, with their torture,” said Henry Kolm, 90, an M.I.T. physicist whose interrogation of Rudolf Hess, Hitler’s deputy, took place over a chessboard. George Frenkel, 87, recalled that he “never laid hands on anyone” in his many interrogations, adding, “I’m proud to say I never compromised my humanity.”

We certainly can't say that now, can we? And what about his comment that if all the contractors (I had no idea it was 180,000) decided to leave if Baghdad really fell, it would leave our soldiers sitting there.

[OzarkDem]

89. Dem leaders have become "Good Germans" on many issues

My personal peeve is the way they throw billions at cancer research, then ignore health care reform to provide coverage for cancer patients. All while wearing pink ribbons.

Dem leaders - the needless deaths of your fellow Americans is on your hands.

[symbolman]

95. Here, Here

Goddamned Great article! Listen folks, this whole family are NAZIS in NeoCon clothing. Bush Senior years ago was caught with a few Actual Nazis working for him. Didn't take long for them to disappear once the public was informed.

His grandfather TRADED with them, A Fact.

From now on I am Using that Term in association with them, never been a Good German anyway, as a lot of people here know. :)

Say it with me, "Do you know what that NAZI Bush said today?"

Wash, rinse, repeat. Say it Five Times And it's True. :)

[AntiFascist]

96. K&R, the media is slowly coming around....

it would be great if more media personalities start introducing this language so that more Americans will become aware of it. Shocking at first, but eventually they may start to understand and eventually all the Good Germans will become an embarrassment.

[Solly Mack]

98. ...

...

what can I say that I haven't already said...

[tomfodw]

105. The "Good Germans" at least had an excuse

If they protested, they knew they would almost certainly be arrested, imprisoned, tortured, and executed by the Gestapo.

What's our excuse?

[GTurck]

107. They thought they were free//

A very good book to read is "They Thought They Were Free". In the late 40's a news reporter from American interviewed Germans, ordinary Germans and not war criminals to understand why they had joined the Nazi party. To put it mildly it was absolute proof of Hannah Arendt's banality of evil. Most joined to save their jobs or to not be singled out as not part of the clique. Few joined on ideological principles. One man recounted his shame and cowardice when an old friend, a Jew, was beaten and humiliated in his presence and he did nothing overt (he was furious in his heart).
That is our challenge today. Do we do follow the GOP lies passively because we might get noticed; it might cost us our jobs; it might effect our families? Or do we challenge all these things and shout that all of the above is anti-American treason and that we won't stand for it anymore? I know that it is a hard for me to answer that as well but I am leaning hard toward the view that we have to challenge the clique and get our souls back.

[L. Coyote]

112. There is no such thing as a "good German" in the minds of the occupied.

I grew up in a household with a parent who endured the occupation and hid Jews. I think I can accurately say, don't expect those occupied by the USA to EVER think than there are good Americans. Good people do not allow their governments to do these things!

[Gabi Hayes]

115. ever seen this movie? from Germany, about a girl who did some research into

her town's WWII past.

they didn't much enjoy her digging....

ring any bells?

based on a true story

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100557/