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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 05:35 PM
Original message
2 Pictures, 1 Graph --> Focus everyone; for the sake of humanity
2 Pictures




1 Graph




You are looking at data that should shake your mind and heart so consequentially that you focus in ways that few ever have because each and every one of you, by your actions, are going to determine the fate of humanity.

In_DEED.

H/T to chapter1

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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. But isn't it really just more fun to bitch about Hillary, Tweety, DINOs and Bush?
Such, at least, is the impression I get.

I've been posting thousands of stories like this, and I may as well be hurling Nerf balls at an Abrams tank.

Still, thanks for helping spread the word! :toast:
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. All that bitching...
Seems like fiddling while Rome burns...
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superkia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. But if we elect another POTUS that supports the corporations...
we will be doing more harm. Some of the candidates don't want to hurt the corporations profits and will have to change laws to help them pollute for profit. Just look at some of the health care plans that still want corporations to profit off of denying claims and only giving partial payments. If they are willing to do it when it comes to our health, why wont they loosen some restrictions on pollution if it helps the corporations make bigger profits? If we elect the wrong person, we are just as responsible for destroying the world we live in. We need a leader that isn't run by the corporations and wants to help find other means of energy, this election could be one of the strongest moves in helping the planet survive.
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
33. I think you're entirely correct; however . . .
Edited on Thu Oct-11-07 08:05 PM by hatrack
We are on the threshold of a world where politicians, policy, platforms and laws are going to be increasingly meaningless. In the context of an increasingly unresponsive, self-absorbed and self-destructive political class at the levers of power, the prospects of meaningful reform of energy policy, economic planning, tax systems, resource use and environmental protection are as bleak as I have ever seen them.

Does anyone on this board really believe that any politician, faced with the beyond-the-worst-case scenario we now confront, is going to do much more than talk about tax incentives, ethanol, hydrogen research and maybe toss a few more buck in the can for "clean coal", solar and wind? Fiddling around the edges is not going to do the job, and I see nothing on the horizon but more fiddling in this age of the non-responsive answer, the sound bite and the pre-recorded focus-group-tested statement.

Let me speak more clearly about what we're confronting. Yesterday, Tim Flannery, Australia's leading climatologist, talked about where we are in terms of the atmosphere's potential to absorb long-wave radiation, which is the key that winds the greenhouse clock. For years, the IPCC's conservative assumption has been that at any atmospheric levels of CO2 below 450 ppm, we would likely see a global average temperature increase of about 2C - bad, but quite possibly manageable. Plans to limit emissions and control the thermostat, so to speak, had been based on that assumption.

However, the figures he released yesterday showed that, if you include all 30 of the greenhouse gases and calculate them as CO2 equivalents - that is derive one number expressing the potential of all these gases to trap heat in the atmosphere, we're already at 455 ppm. And since CO2 (to say nothing of the other 29 gases, which have a wide range of breakdown rates) takes about 100 years to decay, the CO2 from car you drove, the bus you rode, the leaves you burned today won't leave the atmosphere, taking their thermal properties with them, until about 2107.

In other words, we haven't even begun to reap the whirlwind.

Rapid climate destabilization is here, now. It is too late to "stop" it. The best we can hope for is to soften the effects so as to spare the next generations and the rest of nature the very worst of what potentially lies in wait.

And given what I've seen of human and political nature, particularly here in the world's richest, fattest, dumbest and most self-absorbed nation, I am not optimistic that we can even pull that off.
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Admiral Loinpresser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #33
71. Did you see Gore's
congressional testimony in March?

He made five major proposals in the vein you are discussing. The three I can remember offhand are:

1) conversion of our current power grid to an "ElectraNet," which would eliminate the need for new power plants in the US and could be exported to countries like China;

2) a carbon freeze; and

3) accelerating the next cycle of global talks on climate change from 2012 to 2010, so that the American president can lead the world in full-scale planetary mobilization.

I would agree with you regarding every other US politician, but not Gore. It may or may not be too late to save civilization, but he is by far our most realistic hope.
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tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
27. Thank you for posting those. I read them and so does my
oldest son, but I don't respond very often because I don't have anything to add. :hi:

I can't believe that I live among so many who refuse to believe that this is actually a problem.
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lips Donating Member (187 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #27
39. This jetty, the whales, and the little snap who let it escape the tank....


GONE
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
37. Hillary, Tweety, DINOs and Bush are responsible for global warming
bitch bitch bitch ....blah blah blah

:sarcasm:
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. I think this is all going a lot faster than most realize...
It's more than incremental changes, it's exponential.


Those pics and graphs are startling.
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. They're now projecting no summer Arctic sea ice by 2013
It's moving far faster than they even thought possible, even two or three years ago. James Hansen from Goddard said it best:

"For the last decade or longer, as it appeared that climate change may be underway in the Arctic, the question was repeatedly asked: 'is the change in the Arctic a result of human-made climate forcings?' The scientific response was, if we might paraphrase, 'we are not sure, we are not sure, we are not sureyup, there is climate change due to humans, and it is too late to prevent loss of all sea ice.' If this is the best that we can do as a scientific community, perhaps we should be farming or doing something else" Hansen and Sato, 2007b).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. That's just around the corner...
And we have no idea if any changes we might make right now would help... but we sure need to try.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Way, way, way faster ... and, now it's no longer a "modeling" issue ...
... that's hard data and the message is so very simple -- we have no idea how badly we may already have damaged the planet's ability to support life, let alone a human society of any form.

Thank you for your comment.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. There's a domino effect to consider in this...
When the ice melts, it raises the sea level. That's the no-brainer... bye bye beaches.

What is in the ice? What ancient microbes, now in suspended animation, will be released? I know, this sounds very tinfoil-jurasic-parky... but I think it's serious. And what ancient gasses will escape? How will these ancient waters effect sea life?

This is pretty scary stuff. I think we need to make some immediate changes... ugh... no such beast in these times.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #16
86. That's been in a few X-Files episodes
Lord knows if it's really happned or not, and we just didn't realize it.

One was, IIRC, loggers who cut down a very old redwood, releasing microbes that had been trapped in one of the ring layers, another was from an Artic ice sample that had a parasite in it.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #86
89. Life imitates art?
Seems a lot of reality came from, or was precognitive of imaginings such as this. Buck Rogers was loaded with 'em! Don't forget Dick Tracey and his watch! And the communicators on Star Trek are very, very much like today's cell phones.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #89
92. Well, science fiction eventually becomes science fact
I've read tons of stuff by Niven, Clarke, Heinlein, Pournelle, etc., that you can see nowadays. In fact, in many ways our modern society is far more advanced than predicted by the masters of sci-fi even 30 years ago.

No lunar colonies yet, though.

Dammit.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #92
95. I should be flying my car now...
instead of driving...

I blame BIGOIL and BushCo for that though. They are going to squeeze every last cent out of our depleted resources... even though it's killing us.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #95
97. The immortal Lewis Black...
The new millennium sucks! What a disappointment! What's the difference between the old millennium and the new millennium? Nothing! It's the same load of crap with a '2' in the front. When I was a kid, I am old enough so that when I was a kid, I looked forward to the new millennium. When I was young, I said, 'I'm gonna live through a change! A massive change! Things are gonna be different! Things are gonna be great!' Screwed again! No flying cars! No flying cars!


:rofl:
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Tuesday_Morning Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. the ice loss this year
was 30 years ahead of their most dire predictions.

The scientists at the National Snow and Ice Data Center charged with gathering sea ice date are astounded by what happened this season.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. Yes. And, yes. .... we're soon to learn just how small the planet is and how connected ...
... our joint, global fate is ...
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
98. how Ul could Gore not run for president..he knows damn well Hillary will not do what is nessesary
Edited on Fri Oct-12-07 03:37 PM by flyarm
how could he have this knowledge and not take the power to change this into his own hands,.how can he think he can bring about change with the corrupt corporate whore who call themselves repigs and dino dems?

how could he leave it up to the media here and the corrupt so called leaders of this country..??

there is only one place he could effect it all..and that is in the White House..he could change our laws immediately..he could put up a challange like Kennedy did and say.i will pay for college for anyone who goes into science to work on stopping these emmissions..

he could put up laws to stop the auto industry and demand 100 mpgallon..and he could begin mass transportation and lead us in that way..

how can he not run for president and lead us the way..many americans are ready to get on board..we want to for our children's sake..but we need the leader..not off working in obscurity..we need the leader in the white house..now..today..not 8 years from now..

Hillary is not the answer..we all know that..Obama and Edwards are not the answer..we all know that..

we need Gore..we need him in our White House and we need him now..

I know i am not wrong in that..i know i have lived long enough to know promises by politicians are just that..we need someone who will do the deeds..who will stand tall to the American people and say without a blink..this is the sacrifice we all must make ..and we must make it now..not next week ..not next month ..but now ..today.

We need Gore..

i fear for my children we will not get Gore..and in 8 years we will be in a position of no return.

I truely fear that.

fly
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rucognizant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
72. I can testify to that!
I am a landscape painter........ As such, I have had an intimate up close relationship with nature for the last 68 years! ) As a kid I was a loner with the freedom to wander the woods and observe freely)
I came from my home state of SOUTH Jersey, ( market basket to the world during WWII) to coastal Maine 16 years ago. WHen I left; NJ had 4 FOUR months of summer NOT 3! The leaves were opening out in mid April instead of the 1st of May, and turning color in the fall 2 weeks later than they always had!
THIS year.the ground didn't freeze until the end of Jan, 3 months beyond normal here, my peach tree tried to bloom, consequently.no blossoms/ fruit this summer. Now Oct 12, 4 weeks and 3 days after the traditional first frost of the season, the garden is still growing, no frost has stunted its efforts! As a gardener/farmer it is WONDERFUL! But as a human being it is VERY scarey!
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #72
77. The best tomatoes I ever tasted were grown in South Jersey!
I've noticed blooms at odd times too, here in So. California. The strangest thing I noticed, is that my jasmin has not bloomed all year, despite the heat! My Christmas cactus bloomed in March... I hope it blooms for Christmas! My African violets are blooming again right now... this is the fourth bloom this year.

I envy your life :) I would have loved to have spent mine so close to Nature :)
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #72
100. 84degrees in mid October in So Jersey..i watched the NYYankess playoff game
and no one had even jackets on..my husband played against the NY Yankees in Mid 1970's ..we wore heavy coats..

last january we had 75 degree weather in NYCity..and everyone was wearing shorts!

we don't want Gore to run..we need Gore to run!

We need Al Gore...

The world needs Gore to run and to lead the world.

fly
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DJ MEW Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. I ride my bike when possible, grow my own veggies, have bonsia trees
became vegitarian. What else can I do?
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Learn to can & preserve, save seeds, get out of debt ASAP
Hunker down.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. A few thoughts off the top of my head.
Edited on Thu Oct-11-07 06:01 PM by Gregorian
You can NOT have children. Although that is a very unpopular thing to say.

We're in the middle of a disaster, and it's going to dramatically alter our lives very shortly. If you want my best advice, move to an agrarian area. Those who are at the mercy of the petroleum infrastructure are going to suffer. Flowing water. Pasture land.

The simple answer to all questions related to global warming are to think 1890. That's essentially what it's going to look like.

We don't know when it's all going to hit the fan, but at millions of barrels of oil per day being consumed, it's not going to be long.

Also, take a look at my post in the environment forum. There's a video that discusses where we're headed. It's far worse than most people realize. It puts politics in the shade.
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DJ MEW Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
42. Define not long
I am very well aware that the crash will hit during my lifetime, that is something that I have been aware of for years, since I was still in junior high school. But, and I know this might seem stupid, so long as I can get through my college degree first I really don't care.

I also disagree that thinking 1890 is the solution. I would say that thinking more along the lines of urban european would be an acceptable answer. If the United States could increase the number of bicycle commuters to be closer to the 25% figure Of Denmark, that would have a massive effect. Using grey water technology, or waterless toilet technology, both of which exist and would be easy to expand to commercial grade, would severely cut water consumption. Rewriting zoning laws to combat and even reverse urban sprawl would be massive, there is no good reason to commute 90 miles a day just so that you can find affordable land that you can own.

I do agree that not having children is a good idea. I would it is more so a good idea in the countries that are experiencing population explosions, although there are reports that China will actually experience a drop in population within a generation or two.

In all honesty I think Vancouver Canada is sort of a model of what things might look like. They are one of the greenest cities in all the Americas and recently were considering a proposal to increase the level of population density in the city even more in an effort to prevent urban sprawl expansion.

I just don't by the alarmist propaganda that things will totally fall apart, and that all we can do is get ready for it. What about prevention and finding ways to adapt society. To quote Al Gore, "We all ready have everything that we need to solve this problem, save political will, but in America Political will is a renewable resource."
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. It depends on a lot of factors.
But life as we know it is that way because of petroleum. That is the main backdrop that I think so many people simply take for granted. And without that, things really do look a lot like 1890. Horse, ploughs. Except that we have six billion people. That really aggravates everything. Like the food supply.

It depends on how fast we can start manufacturing alternative energy conversion equipment. But that takes manufacturing, and petroleum. It depends on who the leader is. Are we going to spin our wheels and keep the military machine rolling, or are we going to focus on our own country, and make ourselves as independent as possible. How much oil is in the ground? This is where I fail, since I don't know that answer off the top of my head. But when everyone on this planet is using a combined 1000 barrels of oil per SECOND, like we are, no amount of reserves can last very long. It depends on how responsible India and China will be. And it looks like they're copycats of America. And why wouldn't they be? It's comfortable to live like us. But that only makes the situation spiral downward even faster. And then there's global warming. Is it actually occurring faster than predicted? Are we going to have major disasters before we're even prepared?

Nobody knows the answers. But we do use a lot of our oil for driving cars and for transporting goods. Bikes could make a difference. But this society is so far from entertaining that thought, I doubt it'll happen. I come from a family where my dad commuted by bike for years. Ten miles each way. I did the same. But we're freaks. And those were the days when there were only a quarter of the number of cars on the road. I drive to the store where I would normally ride my bike, just because there are so damned many cars. But what a great society it would be if we were all on bikes. I dream of it. Healthier, quieter.

I think we're at the point where we are aware of the situation. I doubt we'll be seeing supercharged cars on showroom floors like we did in the 90's. But we have big problems ahead. Like how to keep our houses warm without draining the petroleum supply. I suppose we'll start thinking about nuclear. And we'll start putting up photovoltaics, and thermal hydronic systems. Slowly we'll come around. People won't have houses at 75 degrees. We'll wear sweaters, and keep the temperature at 60. Stuff like that. But what if we do see sudden supply decreases, and China and India start hogging the oil? Then we start scrambling. And none of this even addresses the economic impacts of petroleum dependence. I don't see light at the end of this tunnel. Had we started working toward independence in 1970, like I thought we would, we'd have been far more prepared right now.

It's all blabbing in a way. The only thing we really know is that it's not unlimited, and it's not cheap any more. And we can't continue for long without melting down the planet.

Here's that video. It's an hour long. If you get a chance, you might look at it. It really answers a lot of questions.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=487885674829791...
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
8. I'm dedicated to THAT also, am I only allowed one area of devotion?
I've gotten out of debt, started growing my own food, and am saving as much as I can.
I'm also as proactive as a disabled person can be for the environment. What have you
done today?
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Took the bus, renewed my AGU membership, and when I get home . . .
I'm feeding the bees and planting some vetch & rye to fix nitrogen in our garden. Baby steps, all, but worth taking.
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. But I could well stand here and insist you do more
My point is we all take our own baby steps.

The vast majority of Americans aren't even being told the truth.

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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. "The vast majority of Americans aren't even being told the truth." Precisely.
Thank you for ALL you are doing ...
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
30. Exactly - unless you happened to be in front of the tee-vee at just the right time . . .
The entire jaw-dropping spectacle of events this summer in the Arctic Basin, and elsewhere throughout the cryosphere, would never have come up.

Even then, I'd be willing to wager that MSNBCNNBCNBCBS et al would trot out the "controversy" over what's happening in front of everyone's eyes before wheeling out somebody from AEI or Cato for the "opposing view".
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
13. This is fucking terrifying.
Edited on Thu Oct-11-07 06:01 PM by Odin2005
The more I see how the climate is spinning out of control the more I get fed up with the candidate bashing, the whining over comparatively minor issues, etc. This should be the #1 fucking issue yet for some stupid reason I don't understand it isn't, these threads seem to always drop like a rock in GD and LBN while the latest Hillary-bashing or "IMPEACH RIGHT THE FUCK NOW!!!" threads get 100s of replies. Sickening, just sickening.
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Sugar Smack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
31. This shocked the hell out of me.
My God. I won't be able to shake this from my thoughts, nor do I want to. I'm terrified.
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motocicleta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
50. I cannot agree more. nt
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
14. Telecommuting vegan, here. I don't even turn my lights on before 8pm
I still need to do more, though.
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knight_of_the_star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
15. That's just plain scary
Edited on Thu Oct-11-07 06:09 PM by knight_of_the_star
The more and more I see data like that the more I become convinced that unless we act NOW and QUICKLY then we will be starting Ragnark in the face with both barrels loaded.

ON EDIT:

I've long since replaced all the bulbs in the dorm that I can with CFLs, I keep the lights and electronics off when not in use and turn them off when roomies are stupid and forget, I walk to class and ride the bus when I go downtown and when I go in a car its either for groceries or I take as many people going the same way as I can fit and take the most direct routes possible. I don't buy pre-made meals and always check the info on the items I buy to make sure the food is as local as possible. When I go to the gym I walk both ways and only turn on the lights that I need for what I'm doing, not everything on the same floor and only when its so dark out that keeping the blinds open won't do squat. I drive a little commuter car instead of a truck, only thing is I wish I really could do more like solar paneling or getting a hybrid but living in dorms says enough about the means for both.
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zippy890 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
18. our hands are not letting go of the steering wheel

I can't believe we are still driving around in cars
that have the infernal combustion engine.

Where's that famous American ingenuity?

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rucognizant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #18
73. Hijacked
By that equally famous, "manifest destiny" morality!
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
19. Behold the REAL threat to National Security.
Hell has a special place reserved for all of the law makers and media who have willfully turned away from FACTS for the past forty years.
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knight_of_the_star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Yes it does
They get to keep Loki's guts company for a LOOOONG time and Gods forbid if they do nothing and let the End of All Songs to come.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
22. K&R. (nt)
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JackintheGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
23. I should cut back on the bourbon, rocks...
My bad.
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
25. It is humbling. n/t
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
26. Fluorescent bulbs, LCD sets, don't need an overpowered PC, walk when possible... walk to work...
telecommute... not waste food... or water...

I did a lot of that before it became a fad too.
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #26
34. Exactly -- we learn to live simply n/t
Edited on Thu Oct-11-07 07:28 PM by melody
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hedgetrimmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
29. Perhaps we can alter a 50 year time frame from now, however
the next 50 years will proceed as it will (as understood via a conversation with a climatologist). If this chart and photos are an indicator, the next 50 years will be one hot time.
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slutticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
32. But this is good news!
More accessible oil....more oil to burn!


:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
35. K&R
nt
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Duppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
36. a thousand R's (if I had them)
THIS is the biggest issue of our lives, our children's lives, our grandchildren's. This will change ALL life on earth.

Even some progressive dems (& here on DU) are in denial.





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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #36
56. Thank you.
Much appreciated,
Bob
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
38. K & R
Time for action.
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toadzilla Donating Member (814 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
40. but we're still just coming out of an ice age!
:sarcasm:
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
41. Wow, that graph is...
astounding.

K&R
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. In_deed. Simply, it is a "black swan" environmental event.
It is time for leaders and experts to begin acting on behalf of humanity.

Humanity is now an endangered species; it may well be extinct.

Ironically, it will be the first species in the history of the planet to have had an opportunity to decide its fate (and the fate of countless other species).

Our choice. What's it going to be?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
44. We have to nationalize our OIL and all natural resources -- if you understand GW . . .
you understand that -- !!!

Also, we need electric cars -- all electric -- on the highways in the next five years -- !!!!

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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
45. I believe the neocons are aware of this, want the truth hidden from the people so that they
can grab enough wealth & power to be on top when the proverbial s%#! hits the fan. private army-check. control of aquifer-check. fema camps-check.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. "private army-check. control of aquifer-check. fema camps-check." That's their fantasy ...
Edited on Thu Oct-11-07 10:47 PM by understandinglife
... I agree. However, as you know, it is vastly naive and totally unsustainable ... just ask any "dark ages" prince ...

:hi:
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absyntheminded Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #45
76. Of course they know.....
How else are they (UN/FEMA/NWO) going to thin out the human population by %80. Martial Law (being shot in the streets by german/russian/un soldiers), Executive orders (no guns, no food, no rights),Prison camps, genocide on a massive scale, the unleashing of a few designer diseases (just to be sure) which only 10-20% of our population are "magically" immune to, etc. They know this will cut C02 emmissions quite drastically, then they'll have their 1800's population and CO2 emission levels. Thats when they'll apply all the new clean technologies to sustain the remaining populace (new world govt/world monetary system) for another 500 years or so.

Kinda like putting a bag over a roach infested house and bombing/fumagating it, those doing the fumagating get everything left in the house for themselves. Why else would they not do anything, in light of all the evidence? Just part of the plan...man. In this case the needs of the few, far outweigh the needs of the many - sadly.

Wait....my tinfoil hat just fell off! LOL :tinfoilhat:


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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #45
78. ain't that the truth.
I am still working on an essay on exactly that theme: that they know exactly what they are doing, they are not idiots, and their plan is a crime against humanity that will make the events of the 30's and 40's look like relatively benign.

My meme of Al Gore day: congratulations Al, we are screwn.
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codjh9 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
48. Amen, brother. But how many people out there are even truly aware, much less
willing to DO something? Plenty, sure, but not *enough*. And I'm afraid too many of our people are too self-centered. As Gore points out, we have the technology NOW to 'fix it', which is fabulous; but will we collectively find the WILL? I hope so, but it's hard to be optimistic about it.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
49. it's too late to start caring now...
and by the middle of the next decade, that's going to be painfully apparent.
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malakai2 Donating Member (483 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #49
53. And so then a question...
If we are beyond the point of no return, why bother voluntarily living a life of simplicity now when we'll be forced to do so soon enough? Certainly, there are reasons to learn how to do things like raise crops, butcher game, preserve food, mend clothes, repair bicycles, and a whole bunch more, and I think as a matter of self-reliance far more people should know how to do those things. But suppose I know how to do those things and more, and suppose I believe that the 1890's are poised to make a big comeback in ten or so years...what is my incentive to NOT live it up now in the twilight of the golden age?
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #53
69. exactly.
there's only so much gusto left to grab- get it while you still can.

the dark times will be here soon enough...the world's population- heck even THIS COUNTRIES population- won't be kept fed by 1890's agricultural production methods. many will die.
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rucognizant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #53
74. Moral Purtity!
Could you sleep at night id f you selfishly took advantage?
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #49
55. NO. It is time to begin leading and caring, truly, on a scale ...
... never before experienced.

We can evolve. We can ensure a Renaissance of exceptional meaning to future generations. All we have to do is use our knowledge, skills and empathy to shape a vastly higher quality of living - and that begins with eating less, walking more, learning more, caring more, hating less, ....

We can evolve, all we need to do is use our brains in ways consistent with that goal and the goal of being totally committed to future generations being able to BE.

To the future - it is entirely our choice what that future can be,
Bob
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #55
57. Gore on 11 Oct 2007: ""We have everything we need to get started," he said. "We have the capacity ..
Edited on Fri Oct-12-07 01:22 AM by understandinglife
... to dig deep and rise above the limitations that normally hold us all back. We have that capacity, we've done it in the past," citing the victory over Nazism in World War II and the Marshall Plan that rebuilt Europe.


Precisely.

No excuses.

Only thoughtful, passionate, empathetic ACTION.

NOW.

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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #57
60. "It's never too late to be what you might have been."
George Eliot wrote that about our individual lives. I think it's resonant with what we each can do now to change in our own personal spheres, and that intention can aggregate with that of others, to live with reason and love for Earth and all its sentient beings.

Wilbur and Orville were fools who thought they could defy reality, and fly!

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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #60
64. And, Al Gore is now a Nobel Laurette for Peace because of his "love for Earth ...
... and all its sentient beings."

Thank you, as always, for your insights and eloquent way of expressing them,
Bob
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #64
109. And may he find his highest calling in furthering the work he has already done.
There's a bittersweet undertone in this to all the world that Al Gore, an elected President of the United States, stripped of that achievement by a rogue Supreme Court, has gone on to bigger and better things. Mr. Gore represents the true spirit of America and has been honored for it.

In whatever office he finds himself, he's a bright hope for our future.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #55
70. words and thoughts aren't going to change the facts-
even if human carbon output went to ZERO today- the earth would still continue warming for a couple/few decades(according to all the science i've seen reported) and we're NOT going to zero anytime soon.
it's too late for the majority of our species- there are definitely interesting times ahead.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #49
79. NO! It is too late to avoid disaster, not too late to mitigate its scope.
This is not an excuse for apathy. Yes we have fucked up and the disaster is upon us, but that does not mean we should give up.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #79
101. that's your opinion- mine differs.
i plan to make myself comfortable and watch the show.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
51. Everyone brace yourselves.
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kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
52. holy crapola- there is the Northwest Passage!
Thanks for the photos and graph. I have tried to walk as lightly as possible upon the earth, but it takes all of humanity together to change things. Looks like it may be a little late to start, but start we must.

what was Professor Fate's line from the Great Race...

"When the water reaches my upper lip, I'm going to say something."
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #52
54. "Looks like it may be a little late to start, but start we must." In_DEED!!
Thank you,
Bob
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Colorado Progressive Donating Member (980 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
58. Well that graph made my night.
:puke:

What are we supposed to do when half the population are freepers?
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #58
59. For starters, way, way less than half the population are freepers ...
... as I'm sure you know.

Take the graph and show it to every person you know, for starters. And explain to them that they are responsible for the future of humanity, each and every one of them.

No more excuses. We are the ones who have done what those pictures reveal and the graph summarizes. No one else did it. We did.

Now we need to use every bit of intelligence, skill, compassion and creativeness we can muster to have humanity become something other than a greedy, willful, self-destructive species.

Thank you for all the effort you will give to saving humanity,
Bob
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Colorado Progressive Donating Member (980 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #59
61. Just remember I live west of Colorado Springs, freepers rule here!
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #61
65. Soon, you will lead them to knowledge. Go for it!
Thank you,
Bob
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #61
104. print out those pictures and the graph in color on a 1-page flier, make copies
Edited on Fri Oct-12-07 04:21 PM by 0rganism
Leave it in public bathrooms at bus stops and airports and universities and restaurants.

It is most assuredly too late to save the vast majority of what we stand to lose. However, it is absolutely essential that those who rebuild in the aftermath not be inclined to repeat our mistakes.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 02:48 AM
Response to Original message
62. Thank you.
Will share this with my grandsons.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 05:25 AM
Response to Reply #62
67. Wonderful!!
Thank YOU!
Bob
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 03:19 AM
Response to Original message
63. Forty Signs of Rain, Fifty Degrees Below, and Sixty Days and Counting
Edited on Fri Oct-12-07 03:29 AM by gateley
Three books by Kim Stanley Robinson. Fiction which presents a realistic scenario on how it may happen. These were recommended by a DUer and I'm glad I read them.

Here's a link to Amazon for info:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/103-2497031-744146...


Edit to add I think we very well be in a cyclical change -- a new ice age, perhaps -- and if that's the case there's absolutely nothing we can do. We can't harness the earth. If that's the case, we'll be able to chart and hopefully project what's happening, and make the adjustments required to survive.

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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 05:25 AM
Response to Reply #63
66. Thank you and I agree - "we can't harness the earth." We can stop destroying it.
And, we can use knowledge to do so and begin preparing for the consequences of our lack of stewardship of the only home we have.

Peace,
Bob
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 05:42 AM
Response to Original message
68. ""It is a question of war and peace," said Egeland, now director of the Norwegian Institute ...
... of International Affairs in Oslo. "We're already seeing the first climate wars, in the Sahel belt of Africa." He said nomads and herders are in conflict with farmers because the changing climate has brought drought and a shortage of fertile lands.

<clip>

In recent years, the committee has broadened the interpretation of peacemaking and disarmament efforts outlined by Swedish industrialist Alfred Nobel in creating the prize with his 1895 will. The prize now often also recognizes human rights, democracy, elimination of poverty, sharing resources and the environment.

Two of the past three prizes have been untraditional, with the 2004 award to Kenya environmentalist Wangari Maathai and last year's award to Bangladeshi economist Muhammad Yunus and his Grameen Bank, which makes to micro-loans to the country's poor.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1103AP_Nobel_Pea...


Dean Mouhtaropoulos/Getty Images


Thank you Mr Gore and Congratulations

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Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
75. FEAR is an excellent motivator...n/t
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
80. these pictures do not lie, we must come to grips what is happening
Edited on Fri Oct-12-07 11:37 AM by alyce douglas
on this earth.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #80
81. Yes and Exactly ...
Thank you!
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f the letter Donating Member (402 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
82. This is intense
i'll be sending these pictures around quite a bit. Pretty inarguable
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
83. Global warming is just a theory.
Someone said. Evolution too.

Just sayin'
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
84. UN panel chairman hopes to work with Al Gore in combatting climate change
UN panel chairman hopes to work with Al Gore in combatting climate change

GENEVA - Former U.S. vice-president Al Gore told his co-winner of the Nobel Peace Prize they should work together to combat climate change, the head of the United Nations' body said Friday.



Rajendra Pachauri, chairman of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, said Gore phoned him soon after learning that they are to share the prize. "We congratulated each other," Pachauri told a news conference in Geneva, by telephone link from New Delhi.

He said Gore told him, "We must work together. We should meet as soon as possible."

He praised Gore for his courage. "He's a wonderful human being," Pachauri said. He said he and Gore really had 2,000 co-laureates - each of the scientists in the UN panel's research network.

<clip>


The process expands ...


Peace.
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Dukkha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
85. this is THE single issue of our time
Nothing else comes close to the importance of stopping this radical change in our climate. We've gone to war for so much less
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
87. "Why The Pundits Are Wrong About A Gore Run"
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #87
94. "Breaking down the sleazy 'Source: Gore thinks Hillary is Unstoppable' meme"
Edited on Fri Oct-12-07 03:38 PM by understandinglife
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/10/12/13455/967

Good to see so many folk calling sleaze and pointing to the most likely sleaze-source.

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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #94
103. sounds like Mark Penn to me!!..the Hillary Karl ROVE OPERATIVE..
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
88. Gore: "My wife, Tipper, and I will donate 100 percent of the proceeds of the award to the ...
... Alliance for Climate Protection, a bipartisan non-profit organization that is devoted to changing public opinion in the U.S. and around the world about the urgency of solving the climate crisis.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/10/12/125337/09


Selfless leadership, every step of the way.

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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
90. These are Good Images to Have
I just posted one on a football message board that was embroiled in an Al Gore controversy. No need to say a word -- just look at the photo.
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #90
91. A picture really IS worth a thousand words
And on occasion, the right graph or satellite imagery can be worth far, FAR more than that.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #90
93. "No need to say a word -- just look at the photo."
Most excellent!!

Thank you,
Bob
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
96. And behind all of out petty hopes and fears, our momentous refighting of WWII
and the Civil War all combined, though bloodlessly as befits the age and time, are ntohing.

The Earth stands in the background and those thing have already been set in motion, now picking up speed.
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govegan Donating Member (661 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
99. And so it is . . .
But let us not be carried away in hyperbole that obscures the root of the problem.

To be brief, Rachel Carson penned The Sea Around Us in 1950. 1950. 1950. That is over a half century ago now.

Okay, so what?


As the chill of the northern waters has abated and the fish have moved poleward, the fisheries around Iceland have expanded enormously, and it has become profitable for trawlers to push on to Bear Island, Spitsbergen, and the Barents Sea. .....

But for the present, the evidence that the top of the world is growing warmer is to be found on every hand. The recession of the northern glaciers is going on at such a rate that many smaller ones have already disappeared. If the present rate of melting continues others will soon follow them.

The melting away of the snowfields in the Opdal Mountains in Norway has exposed wooden-shafted arrows of a type used around A.D. 400 to 500. This suggests that the snow cover in this region must now be less than it has been at any time within the past 1400 to 1500 years.
.......
The continents themselves dissolve and pass to the sea, in grain after grain of eroded land. So the rains that rose from it return again in rivers. In its mysterious past it encompasses all the dim origins of life and receives in the end, after, it may be, many transmutations, the dead husks of that same life. For all at last return to the seato Oceanus, the ocean river, like the ever-flowing stream of time, the beginning and the end.



So is climate change, an altered atmosphere, the root of the problem which confronts today all of life on this planet, or might it be merely a symptom? And if a symptom, wherein lies the malady, the heart of the disease?

From 1961:


Freedom to waste began in North America's colonial days, when resources were deemed inexhaustible. Men burned trees to get rid of them, shot to near-extinction bison and pigeons for the joy of killing, used the land until it was exhausted, abandoned it to water and wind erosion, and moved onto new free land. If Professor Paul Sears, in Deserts on the March, is right in assuming that civilized man has converted fertile land masses into deserts by deforestation, over-grazing and open cultivation, and that modern man has carried the process faster and further than his predecessors, then waste of natural resources under free enterprise is robbing mankind of the foundation upon which life and well-being depend.... Again freedom to exploit and compete has been converted from a promise into a menace on a scale so vast that it threatens the well-being and survival of the entire human race.

(and for the sake of brevity)

Freedom is not enough. The power age is in desperate need not so much of free men and women as of disciplined, responsible, dedicated citizens. Its future, nay, its very survival requires not free nations but nations and peoples willing and able to subordinate fatherland defense to the requirements of peace, justice and the common welfare.



From Scott Nearing in Freedom: Promise and Menace, A Critique on the Cult of Freedom.

A will not evidenced in the USA today, obviously.

You must not only aim aright,
But draw the bow with all your might. -- HD Thoreau

Strength Through Peace Kucinich 2008
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
102. This is the beginning of the endgame, and we're still playing our opening moves
The 2nd-order feedback effects are kicking in now. Things are changing much faster than predicted. We cannot make the necessary adjustments in time to avoid serious losses across the board.

The biosphere, humanity included, is about to receive a major ass-whipping from mama nature.
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Sufficient Voice Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
105. NOW IS THE TIME
Edited on Fri Oct-12-07 04:24 PM by Sufficient Voice
We need to organize and mobilizable like a commit was about to hit the earth!
There will be nearly as much death and destruction if we don't!
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #105
111. Welcome to DU.
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dogindia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
106. fuel base has got to be changed. waterpoweredcars. crazy? kick.
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nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
107. K&R.nt
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
108. k/r
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RollergirlVT Donating Member (452 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
110. kick
kick
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
112. kick n/t
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