Why can't Pubs discuss politics? They instantly just GET MAD!

[napi21]

I was calmly having a discussion with my BIL last night about a lot of different things, and somehow the subject turned to politics. I knew he detests ALL DEM candidates and always has, but last night I was honestly asking him some questions, and I wanted his point of view. He was in the Marines for 24 years, served in 'Nam, as a grunt right out of HS, came home, went to college, and when he graduated, the Marines offered him the best deal, so he re-upped as an officer. So he has hands on experience from a number of foreign countries.

He's firmly convinced that Hillary is going to be the next Prez, and he thinks it's HORRIBLE! I asked him why? He said "She'll pull most of the troops out of Iraq, but not all, and it will be a mess." I said it's a mess NOW! The conversation went back and forth for a minute or two, and he started getting louder and louder, and he actually got out of control MAD!

My son has related similar conversation with guys he works with. He asked me "Why can't Pubs ever have a reasonable conversation about politics? They won't just argue with you, they instantly get MAD!"

Do any of you have an explaination for why that is? They never TRY to convince a Dem to see their side of the argument, they just start yelling!

[nancyr]

1. They know they're wrong and they're defensive.

[Tesha]

29. You can see the same phenomenon right here on DU with our more "right" members. (NT)

[Javaman]

30. Yup, been on the receiving end of that a few times. Ignore is your friend. LOL nt

[Phillycat]

2. I'll be honest - I do too, at this point.

I am so angry at the state of my country, I can barely be rational anymore when I'm speaking to a Republican. Apparently you're a better person than I am.

[slackmaster]

3. Duncan Hunter always goes straight for the military option

He doesn't get mad.

[n2doc]

4. Because all of their arguments are based on emotion

Be Scared! They are coming for us! These arguments make no sense if you stop and think about them, but that is the point. Most repubs don't think, that is why they can accept all of this contradictory stuff and keep on with the program.

Although I will say that it seems like having a discussion about the 08 candidates here at DU has the same effect. One or 2 reasonable posts, then "let the flame wars begin"....

[napi21]

13. You're right about the "be Scared" part. He said he is positive the US will get hit again,

and he doesn't think it will be NY again. DC is always at risk because it's where all US political leaders are, but he went from blowing up schools, a large mall during holiday shopping time, etc. Then he mentioned the snipers that terrorized Va. (He lived in Va. and I agree with him that during the time those 2 snipers were randomly shooting people, the residents wouldn't leave their homes. All the stores were empty, and everyone really WAS scared of their own shadow. By this time, the conversation had gotten so out of control, I didn't bother to state the obvious "There are always going to be NUTS in the world, and the 2 snipers were from HERE!"

I LOVE a good argument with a worthy opponent, and I can't seem to find ANY Pubs who can simply discuss their views without losing it!

[radfringe]

5. having a reasonable discussion

requires thinking and allowing new ideas to enter the head. this hurts, it causes pain and when people are hurting they get mad and lash out

[rurallib]

6. I have given up trying.

My conversations have usually been something like:
Me: question
them: answer with a talking point
Me: correction - point out the lie in the talking point
them: (voice rising) restate talking point louder with an accusation of hating America.
End of conversation.

[Hokie]

7. They cannot be reasonable and still be a republican

I don't think I need to elaborate.

[Az]

8. Because emotions are very overwhelming things

The ability to hold reason in its place and consider issues that may raise your emotions is a difficult skill. The right appeals to emotions. Particular fear and anxiety. And these emotions can easily overwhelm the reasoning of the mind. Thus those who hold to the right tend to do so because of the hold these emotions have on them. If you initiated a discussion with them on these subjects the mind naturally brings forward the fears and anxieties they associate with their positions and they react to the emotions.

[DemGa]

9. They are angry

Their anger is mostly repressed; they just project it onto various targets. All part of the mental illness of Republicanism.

[jpgray]

10. Guess where they learn it from? When uncomfortable facts come up, attack, attack, and ridicule

[tridim]

11. They either get mad, or if they're like my parents..

they get silent and make a rule that we can't talk about politics.

It feels like the twilight zone to me, I haven't been able to speak with my parents about current events for 7 years. It's really depressing because I want to talk to them, but their rule makes it so I can't. I've already mentioned that the day Bush is gone I'm breaking the rules.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

12. They are very rigid and lack the ability to adapt. Hence, when challenged,...

,...they usually have only one emotional resource to draw upon: anger.

[unpossibles]

14. I get angry too, but I still try to keep facts involved with my side of the debate

they just spew talking points and attack me and Dem politicians on personal levels. I think they get defensive and angry because they see it as "if you are attacking the person they voted for, you are attacking them."

I just got done with a very ironic conversation that started because the guy said that "the troops requested Rush Limbaugh and that they don't need leftist propaganda because they get it from the enemy."

I corrected him on several levels - that Rush was put on Armed Forces radio at the request of Republican congressmen, not the troops, that he is biased and tax-dollar funded, and that Rush was pure propaganda. I backed up all of my claims with reputable sources, and he just kept calling me a commie or whatever, and spewed about 25 talking points in a row.

Finally, I explained that he was the best argument for my point (that Rush IS pure propaganda) because he said the very things that Rush says and did not even realize it. I also called him a dumbass finally (he pretended to get offended even though he had been calling me names all weekend), and told him that he's either an asshole or a dumbass to continue to ignore reality, and that calling him a dumbass was me trying to be nice about it.

The dude is amazing - after claiming that "America is 80% conservative" he finally bowed out without ever addressing a single fact I used by saying "I was just being funny and trying to stir things up." Which is even funnier as he said Rush is just a sarcastic entertainer. Fucking chicken shit ignorant morons - they are afraid to actually have a rational debate and I tried for days and kept it level-headed until the very end when I called him a dumbass.

[Marrah_G]

21. On the flip side... they are just as sure they are the factual ones

In my opinion many have dug their heels in and taken a side and now they will fight tooth and nail to justify their choice. I think it is more human nature then a basic evilness. They see their information from their sources as fact and ours as fiction, much in the same way that we look at theirs. It's all in the perspective.

I personally believe we are correct, but I also know my polar opposite is out there convinced that it is he that is correct.

How did we get to this place.... is there any hope in healing this divide?

I just don't know anymore.

What I do know is that I now avoid R's at all cost. I don't want to hear them, talk to them or look at them.

Perhaps I am part of the problem.

[unpossibles]

28. I agree they think they are right

the sad part is, I am usually willing to overlook a lot of that, but frankly the documented facts are generally on our side. When they are not, I don't keep insisting they are if someone shows me I am wrong and its from a reliable source.

The sad part is, this is how their revolution worked: the Conservatives got people to distrust information - the media, schools, celebrities, scientists, etc. were all too liberal, were biased, and could not be trusted. That was the message.

Then they filled that information void with garbage from Fox news, Rush Limbaugh, etc. Now, when I try to explain why Rush is propaganda and is often wrong, people just shut me out because I get my information from a variety of news sources from all over the world and all over the political spectrum - which are all "liberally biased" to them, thus instantly discredited. They don't even need to find links or documentation to "know" I am wrong.

In a sick f'd up way, that is brilliant. And really sad.

I ignored this for too long, but I am to the point that I cannot take being called a traitor just for what I believe in. Here's part of my final post about this guy to someone else, because the dude basically decided that since he can't out debate me, he would just brag about how much money he makes, and how he "used to be a liberal" until he started making megabucks.

I'm not shocked you do well for yourself, xxxxx, although I question your judgement considering you think the economy is doing well and that Real Estate is a win-win investment.

I personally often find it sad that so many people value money over everything. Yes, money is a very important and necessary thing to have, but it's not the end all be all either. Valuing money over life is what gets people killed every day. I'm not really shocked that your wallet is the real reason you vote Republican though, and that Clinton's penis was just an excuse which finally came out (so to speak).

If someone told me, "hey, I'll let you keep a few extra thousand dollars of your tax money, and all you have to do is tell your friend that he can never marry the man he loves," I would tell him to go to fucking hell.

I would never trade any amount of cash for the things that I believe in, such as our Constitutional Right to speak or to be whatever religion we want (including none), or to own a gun, to redress the ills of the government, or to be married and pursue happiness, or to vote, or whatever else. Just not worth it to me.

Does that make me a liberal? yep. Does that mean that I cannot still be a moral, hard-working, patriotic, loyal and caring person? Of course not, although that is what is said about me all the time by Propagandists like Rush and Coulter, etc. every single fucking day.

Do you start to see why this shit pisses me off? At all? Would it make you angry if it were considered acceptable to broadcast on millions of TVs and radios what a shitty American you are without having done one thing to deserve it? Of course it would. It's not about being PC - you can call me whatever name you think is clever, and frankly I can choose to care or not, but the same rights which allow you to be offensive or edgy or whatever you think you are, allow me to call you out on it, especially when you can't even be honest about it. Being called a "communist" is not an insult, but it's also not really true.

Sadly, you have not even noticed that you are personally helping to literally attack me and well over 100,000,000 other people who really give a shit about their country and each other. People who fight for equality and justice, people who work and pray, people who study new technologies to keep our country going in the world market, people who fought next to you in the military. And you support attacking them and think it's funny.

America is a lot more liberal than you admit: the majority of people want health care that works, want a good infrastructure, want to not be aggressive when it comes to foreign policy, and want freedom of religion, and do not want racism, sexism, and homophobic hate crimes. You've been told that "Liberal" is a bad thing and you fucking believed it. I'm not saying you are dumb for it because there are millions like you, but I am saying you need to really try to think a bit harder about whether you want to continue to be a contributor to making America a shittier place, or if you want to actually contribute to it being better. Or do you just not give a flying fuck as long as you have your money? In my opinion, that falls under the first category because you're willing to sell out your fellow people for some quick cash.

I have a thick skin, and a good sense of humor. I can laugh at myself for a variety of reasons. I can laugh at all of us for a variety of reasons. I am not a hateful person simply because I point out things which could be improved. But I am sick of being called a terrorist and worse by people like Rush Limbaugh who is nothing but a liar and who gets paid to make someone like you - another hard-working American - turn against someone like me and dehumanize me by feeding you a diet of hyperbole, hypocrisy and lies.

So yeah, keep bragging about how you made millions but are too much of a cheapskate to support the idea of any kind of realistic health care system in this country, even though you are already paying more than you would because you think your taxes would go up. Boo fucking hoo. Enjoy your real estate market.

[Rambis]

15. They are ideologues

and if they can't stick to the talking points they are lost. They cannot argue a point or a fact because everything they say is preprogrammed. Anything that challenges what I call the bubble is forbotten. Facts,figures or ideas are upsetting to the ideologue therefore, the only option they have available to them is to get angry with you.

[MethuenProgressive]

16. It's Karl Rove's teachings: Avoid issues, just attack.

And it's a plan that's gaining popularity.

[Rhythm and Blue]

17. I've had many good discussions with Republicans. Here's how:

You simply have to treat their ideas as valid. Explain not why they're wrong, but by why your way of seeing things is more right, and can be more right from their point of view.

Say, let's look at when he says, "She'll pull most out, and it'll be a mess." By saying, "It's a mess now," you're invalidating his claim. Now, that might be true, but it'll just make him defensive and angry; besides, it doesn't really address his point. Iraq is bad now, sure. But that doesn't mean that he might not still be right. After all, things could still get worse.

By saying "Iraq is a mess NOW," you're saying "You do not understand the situation in Iraq." He probably fancies himself as something of an expert on military affairs, so that offended him.

Rather, what you could say next time would be something along the lines of, "Yeah, she does want to pull the majority of the troops out. But I would say that American troops are no longer providing any benefit to Iraq. You know that military presence can alienate civilians, and while they have had some success in suppressing terrorists and militias, doing that gives the Iraqis an excuse not to fix their own country. There hasn't been any political progress at all, and we can't stay there minding their business forever. The only thing that our troops can do to help Iraq would be to train their army so it can stand on its own feet and keep the Shi'a and Sunnis from going at each other's throats, and under Hillary that won't change at all."

He'll have counterpoints. Address them equally calmly. Acknowledge his point of view. Explain why yours is better. Maybe he'll never come around, but with any luck you'll at least give him some useful things to think about.

[Marrah_G]

18. Actually I think both sides do

I cannot stomach RWers. I get irritated almost immediately when politics comes up with them.

There is a massive divide in this country right now.

Both sides have precious little tolerance for the other.

I think it is unfair to classify JUST the RW as angry. We are angry too.

I think we have more justification, but then again I am sure they feel they have more justification.

[Wiley50]

19. Limbaugh and Fox have taught them to hate Liberals

So the moment you say something they perceive as liberal, they go into attack mode.

I fear that if Smirk and Snarl actually manage to take this country into complete totalitarianism,

we liberals will be persecuted like Jews in Nazi Germany.

They have a "Final Solution" to the "Liberal Problem" planned if they can just complete the takeover.

That is why, in 2003, I bought a gun for the first time since I was a teen hunter.

I try to stockpile a bit of ammunition too.

It CAN happen here

[raccoon]

20. I'm afraid I do this too. They come out with these same stupid talking points,

and I feel my blood pressure soar. It's like going from 0 mph to 60 mph in an instant.

In that state, I can't carry on a reasonable discussion. Kudos to those of you who can maintain calm while talking to these people.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

22. Me? I Can't talk about

politics with a Republican without getting crazy mad....

I didn't used to be this way. I used to be able to discuss politics and religion without getting all freaked out... Now, after this horror show, I can not stay calm. I beg my husband not to bring it up with me around. If I am out and people start up and they are, GOD FORBID, Republicans or Libertarians - I actually have to leave.


I don't yell... But I have told them they are dumb-asses.

[marions ghost]

23. these people who were swayed by rightwing media

&/or their preachers, or their local good old boy politicians, --and went with what makes them feel good ...are hurting now. They always operate out of greed and need, but their feel good drugs are running low. Betrayal sucks.

These rigid thinkers don't bother me nearly as much as the quiet calculating Rethuglicans--the warmongers, the exploiters, the masterminds--capitalizing on those poor short-sighted suckers and manipulating the situation in general. They've learned to consider all sides and remain flexible...but they use their intelligence for nefarious purposes. Those are the real scary ones. The cold ones. They don't argue with you. They don't have to.

Mom and Pop Bunker don't really bother me. They think they are upholding traditions. But these traditions are so illusory. They get mad when they realize the world doesn't work exactly as they need to think it does. They don't do well in situations of flux and often seem kind of child-like and pitiable. They are very vulnerable to political exploitation.

[book_worm]

24. for the same reason we can't discuss it on DU without people resorting to namecalling

[backscatter712]

25. It's Right Wing Authoritarian psychology.

Remember if you read Dr. Bob Altemeyer's The Authoritarians the three primary characteristics of right-wing authoritarianism - authoritarian submission, authoritarian aggression, and traditionalism.

They don't want you to think, they don't want to discuss, they want you to SUBMIT. Once they've picked a leader to submit to and drink the Kool-Aid, they're more than happy to at least watch as their views are shoved down your throat.

[Cleita]

26. Because they don't have any facts to back their myths.

When you expose them they attack because they have nothing else left.

[jdadd]

27. Hmmmm

I can beat your a-- ergo I'm right:shrug: