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UPDATE: 2nd girl from porn tape FOUND--Still looking for the little girl age 4-5

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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:29 AM
Original message
UPDATE: 2nd girl from porn tape FOUND--Still looking for the little girl age 4-5
http://tinyurl.com/22ez6n

Cops Looking For Little Girl On Sex Tape
Second, Older, Girl Identified; Public's Help Sought In Finding 4-5-Year-Old

PAHRUMP, Nev., Sept. 27, 2007

(CBS/AP) Nevada authorities have identified the second girl found on a videotape that shows sex acts by a man on a girl around 4 or 5 years old.

"We've ensured that she is safe and that she is well. We've ensured that she did not suffer as a victim at the hands of that perpetrator, as did that little girl," Nye County sheriff's detective David Boruchowitz said on CBS News' The Early Show.

The younger girl still has not been found. The second girl is estimated to between 10 and 12 years old.

<snip>
The tape, a little longer than 30 minutes, clearly shows the adult man performing criminal sexual acts that Boruchowitz said included rape, "everything else, and then some."

See link for more info and story

Another photo of her


Enhanced photo


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liberal renegade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. Just shoot the bastard when you find him!
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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Let's keep this kicked
Someone out there knows this little girl which may help in saving her.

Gotta go to work. Will be checking back later to kick if needed.
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. That's too good for him..
I guess that's why we have a criminal justice system in this country, but damn, vile pos's like this don't deserve it.
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. You bet
I've read that its never been documented that a pedophile was ever changed, or as the gay bashing fundies would say 'fixed'
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Erva Donating Member (178 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. I agree.
The recidivism rate for this type of crime is extremely high. They are not 'rehabilitated', they just get out to do it again.
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
106. No
Due course of law, then shoot him.
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
4. Keeping it kicked -- hoping they chipper-shredder the monster n/t
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #4
21. wood chipper is too quick for that fuckwad.
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #21
36. As opposed as I am to the death penalty,
I fantasize about putting sons-of-bitches like this in the electric chair, but with a dry sponge, like in The Green Mile. Watch him slowly burn to death from the electricity, screaming the whole way.
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Sequoia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #21
47. Halfway in...head first
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. feet first
I think you mean
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Sequoia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Yes, he'd still be half alive to get his head smacked by a shovel.
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #50
60. Go to work on him with a dermatome.
A dermatome is a surgical instrument used to take skin grafts.

Ever skin your knee or get a big blister? Note how that layer of raw skin under the top layer stung intensely at the slightest touch, or even a breath of air?

Now imagine his whole body like that...

DISCLAIMER: Yes, I'm a sick fuck. But I wouldn't really do this. In reality, I'm against the death penalty, and torture.
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Sequoia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. Ouch!
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #60
85. It is understandable
for this topic to make a person violent and physically sick. Putting them in florence supermax, where they should never see the sun, hear a human voice, never have a tv or book, ever again works.

Just a buzzing florescent light.

I feel the same way you do, but can not vent it, because I can not make those things happen. However looking at this persons autopsy photos would bring me no pain.

They are human filth.
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misanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #60
103. Add a turpentine bath to the recipe**nm
**
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #103
105. Sounds like Reservoir Dogs
where Vic Vega sliced off that cop's ear while dancing to Stuck In The Middle With You, then splashed gasoline on him, especially on the stump where the ear was. Ow.

Vic did get interrupted before he could flambé the cop...
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #105
123. Who the fuck is Vic Vega, a lifer? If not I hope so.
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varkam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #123
126. He was a character in the movie Reservoir Dogs. eom
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #126
128. Oh.
LOL!
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Highway61 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
5. Oh My Dear God
Some people are pure EVIL
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
6. K & R...
Let's keep it kicked...and we need a couple of more Recs....

:kick:
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
7. Hope this guy ends up in a cell with a couple of mean
ass bastards who don't like pedophiles.
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. he will
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jdadd Donating Member (950 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #7
22. My Friend is a C.O. at the local prison....
He says that pedophiles are on the bottom of the food chain in prison.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
8. Thank God these little girls...
...will be rescued from whatever horrible nightmare they currently endure.

The expression on the 10-year old looked dead and lifeless--like so many victims do.

That little 5-year old is so young and so sweet.

Here's to the police who are working so hard to rescue these children. Every victim
of sexual abuse deserves to be rescued like this so they can begin the long healing process.

Sending loads of healing light to these two little angels...


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Heidi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. The older child has been identified and did not appear to have been sexually abused,
according to the sheriff's department, although they do say that the video footage of the older girl "appears to be some kind of peep show."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/27/national/main3303528.shtml
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
64. Is the older girl giving them some kind of clues?
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #64
78. I don't think so.
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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. Let's HOPE the little girl is found! Alive!
Please, anyone, keep this thread kicked.

Am heading out the door to work and won't be able to kick it until much later today. Thanks
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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
10. Have pictures of the rapist been released?
I haven't seen any.
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Heidi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Here:
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Buttercup McToots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Here...pix of him here...find him
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Buttercup McToots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. They have another pix of her and she is a baby...
:cry:
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iconoclastic cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #18
28. This pic is on the AMW site:
Edited on Thu Sep-27-07 09:17 AM by iconoclastic cat
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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. A thread yesterday contained an image of him from the vid. n/t


My Favorite Master Artist: Karen Parker GhostWoman Studios
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Rockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #10
19. Hopefully FReepers will cross post on this one.
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iconoclastic cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #19
29. They could direct their energy constructively on this one, if they didn't mind. nt
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #19
34. I'm sure they will
They hate them just as much as we do.

Some of them just believe the evil myth that the average homosexual does this kind of s***.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
12. Here's to hope. nt
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rubberducky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
23. Kicked and rec`d
Prison would be great for and animal like this guy.
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iconoclastic cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
24. I posted this on the first thread a minute ago, but I need to freak out:
It occurred to me that this girl would be about eight years old right now. That is school age. There is no f'ing way that a doctor who clears her for beginning kindergarten would miss the obvious signs of abuse. And if somehow a doctor missed it, wouldn't a kindergarten teacher see something?

This leads me to a chilling thought: Would a person as evil as the SOB who is abusing her allow a teacher or doctor to bust him?
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #24
66. That's true.
It's doubtful that he'd let her be examined by anyone. He would almost certainly be keeping her home, and probably isolated.

Can anyone truly imagine what life must be like for this girl? :cry:
x(
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #24
119. If this little girl is still alive, she isn't going to school or seeing a doctor. n/t
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theNotoriousP.I.G. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
25. K&R
That poor child. I'm not much of a believer, but I am praying to anybody out there in the universe that will listen to help this little girl to survive this and that she get the help, love and healing she is going to need.

:cry:
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
26. Good. It can't be long now.
If they've located the other girl, they're probably closing
in on the sick bastard right now.

I hope he'll do the right thing, and just shoot himself
when he hears the knock at his door.
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iconoclastic cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Unfortunately, what separates you from evil bastards like that
is that you actually know right from wrong, and care about it. I see no evidence of that from the creep in this story.
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TornadoTN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #26
32. That's too good for him

I can't think of a punishment brutal enough for what this "man" has done.

I'm normally anti-death penalty, but I make an exception for pedophiles.
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Phillycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #32
41. Put him in jail first. General population.
They do not enjoy kiddie rapists. He will suffer.
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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #26
38. Sheriff said that first girl is separate form the little girl missing, and she has no information
Am home on a quick break from substitute teaching.

Am kicking!

ANd keep those recs coming :hi:

Let's keep getting the owrd out online for that sweet baby girl.

Hopefully, that scum bastard will get nailed! :grr:
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. She's gotta have SOME information.
At least the "where and when" of how she got onto
the tape would have to be a significant lead.

I'm hoping that "she has no information" claim
is just a law enforcement ploy to keep the scumbag
from running until it's too late.

I need a "crossed fingers" smiley!
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. I think she was a victim of peeping
At least that's what I read on Las Vegas news site.

If that's the case she may have not even have known that someone was taping her.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Damn. That's disappointing to hear.
I wasn't aware of that; I haven't had the stomach
to follow this case that closely.
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. I was excited when they I.D. the second girl too
It was when I looked into that part that I found that information.

Yes, it's disappointing.
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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #39
51. They reported that the older girl was a peep (window) taping
and not associated with the part or parts of the tape that have to do with the little girl
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #26
76. The older girl could be someone totally unrelated to this whole
thing. The tape doesn't show her being abused or raped. It could be someone just filmed by the same person, without her ever knowing she was even filmed.
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mainegreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
30. Oh, what the...
:puke:
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
31. I'm firmly against capital punishment . . . but in this case, I'll make an exception . . .
there are some things that are just so heinous that nothing else could possibly suffice . . . this is one of them . . .
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npincus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #31
40. you bet- I'd kill the bastard myself
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ourbluenation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #31
59. perps like him are exactly the reason I support the death penalty
the child killers have to go. the victims families shouldn't have to breathe the same air. It's a totally emotional response but I cannot help it.

Please let her be found alive.
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OnionPatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #59
73. This is the only situation where I fully support the death penalty.
In fact, I would support torture for these guys. Can't help it. A mother's wrath, I suppose.
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
33. No words
What can you say?
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
35. How could anyone...???
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southern_belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
37. k & r
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Nimrod2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
44. I hope a good person kills the monther fucker right there and then...As soon as he is located.
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iconoclastic cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. That would be emotionally satisfying, but he has some talking to do.
By which I mean to say there has to be more information which should be extracted from him.
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judaspriestess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
48. the little girl is wearing lingerie
A baby wearing lingerie??? :cry: I pray she is ok.

This bastard needs to be severely and painfully punished!! Disgusting vile pig

I live in Vegas too, I will keep a very close eye out.
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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
52. Have been sending out this story and pics to trusted friends around the country
Hope you all can do the same.

This scum needs to be apprehended.

This little girl needs to be found, hopefully, alive.
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
53. One frightening consideration ....




now that he may be aware the law is looking for him he may have *disposed* of her so that he won't be spotted by people looking for the two of them together.

The poor kid will probably be a basket case for the rest of her life.




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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. She may have "aged" out of what he is attracted to,
and may possibly already be dead or sold or given to others. :cry: :puke:
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geek_sabre Donating Member (619 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. k&R nt
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #54
87. I sincerely doubt this is the case.
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #53
57. I hate to say it, but I would be very surprised if they found her alive
Edited on Thu Sep-27-07 03:43 PM by GloriaSmith
I hope like hell I'm wrong.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #57
77. Well, Liz Smart and Shasta Groene were found alive, so certainly this girl
Edited on Thu Sep-27-07 05:52 PM by lizzy
could be alive as well.
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varkam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
56. Personally, I am equally troubled
Edited on Thu Sep-27-07 03:46 PM by varkam
by what this little girl has gone through as I am by posters here clamoring for a painful and ruthless execution of the perpetrator. I'm sorry, but I am against the death penalty on principle and what that means is that I do not advocate the destruction of anyone, regardless of what crimes that they have committed. It doesn't mean that I am usually against the death penalty, except when someone has done something truly depolorable. He should be given a trial and, if found guilty, sent to prison. That's it. End of story.
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theNotoriousP.I.G. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #56
61. you are entitled to your opinion
Edited on Thu Sep-27-07 04:25 PM by theNotoriousP.I.G.


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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #56
62. Varkam, you're a perfect person -- the rest of us are mere humans
While you're on your high horse, I might point out that I'm deeply against the death penalty,
however as I get older, it's healthy to vent. If anyone deserves a cruel fate, it's this
bastard.
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theNotoriousP.I.G. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #62
67. Kohlberg's theory of stages of moral development
might explain it better than someone being on a high horse.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. It certainly does...
Though later on down the line, Kohlberg came to believe that few if any ever consistently reached stage 6.

(though we do seem to see a lot of stages 2-4 on the board. Curious as to whether that would apply to posters IRL).
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. One can operate at disparate moral levels and still interact as a regular person
Larry works at an abstract level -- this is a concrete one. lol
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theNotoriousP.I.G. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. I think you just proved larry's theory
LOL.
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. Which was my point ;) n/t
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #62
75. gonna say this, then i'm
out of here cause this is just too much to deal with


the fact that Varkam doesn't want a person to be intentionally murdered, that they find the calls for violent, rage troubling, and is met with more anger and words intended to wound, really just makes this whole world even more ugly.

it's healthy to vent... if you are a fire- the exhaust fumes are deadly. and the actions being suggested in response to a terrible act- are terrible. How does hatred ever cancel out hatred? why is it that people can't support responding to hateful, horrible things with something other than similar stuff?

i understand the feelings this little girls situation brings up- better than i can say

this little girl is experiencing just how horrible humans can be to each other- is adding to it the best we can do?


oh what a world of sorrows

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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #75
81. When will we ever stop trying to frustrate people's free expression? n/t
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varkam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #81
91. I don't think anyone is trying to stop anyone from expressing themselves. eom
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #91
95. Sneering at and demeaning others' anger from some assumed sense of superior morals does this
If you want to explain to us why any of us genuinely want to chipper-shredder someone and therefore
why you felt it necessary to posture (and even more so if you did realize we were merely venting)
perhaps we'd be communicating. All you're doing is taking an opportunity to sniff and feign superiority
toward others' honest expressions of anger and outrage.

We're all moral adults and no one genuinely wants to kill this guy -- I should think that is absurdly
obvious.

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varkam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #95
97. Was I sneering? Was I demeaning others' anger?
Not in the slightest. We all should be angry at such crimes, and I made no assertion to the contrary. I also made no claim of moral superiority.

I cannot read into the motivations and intentions of various anonymous posters on a message board, and so I cannot prove that anyone genuinely wants to murder this individual - I can only take their claims at face value. Can you prove that they are only venting?

Even so, you are demeaning my own position by feigning indignation. Perhaps if you weren't, we'd actually be communicating.
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urgk Donating Member (982 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #97
111. Hear, hear. n/t
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #75
84. At minimum
these people should die in Florence supermax. They should never see the sun again, never hear a human voice again. Never see a tv or book. They should sit in a cell with a hole for a toilet and a buzzing fluorescent light until they die or kill themselves.

At minimum, that is a logical and reasonable response.

That piece of human shit should have killed himself before he did what he did.

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varkam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #84
92. I don't think you
nor any of us are in a position to craft a "logical and reasonable" response to this particular individual's alleged crimes, being that we are relatively anonymous posters on a message-board. I think we should probably leave that to the courts to decide.
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varkam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #62
90. I never claimed to be a perfect person, melody.
Edited on Thu Sep-27-07 08:11 PM by varkam
I have plenty of imperfections myself. Sure it might be healthy to vent, but I don't feel some here are merely venting, but rather seriously proposing a course of action that should be undertaken against this individual (namely, brutal, extra-judicial murder). There is a difference there that, hopefully, you can appreciate.

I find it interesting that you accuse me of being on a high horse while you breathlessly presume to know what is right and just in this situation. He deserves a trial and, if found guilty, he deserves to be punished for his crimes. What that punishment should be, I will leave to the courts to sort out (though I have a feeling it isn't going to be mob execution). But my general feeling is this - if we respond to acts of depravity in kind, then the line that seperates "us" and "them" becomes very strained, indeed.


edited to add: If you think the position of being against the death penality on principle is morally admirable, then perhaps you should strive to adopt it yourself.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #90
99. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
varkam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #99
100. If you can point out where I "decried the free expression...
Edited on Thu Sep-27-07 08:36 PM by varkam
...of contrary opinion" I would greatly appreciate it

:rofl:

I never decried you expressing your opinion, rather I decried your opinion. You are free to express whatever barbarity you wish, don't expect me to agree with you though.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #56
74. personally i
agree with you Varkam.

and as a survivor i understand what we are talking about.

there is nothing that will give this girl back what has been taken from her.
nothing.
not one single fucking thing.


The intentional pre-meditated murder of another human being, will not make anyone any safer, or bring healing to a wound that goes deeper than any flesh.. changes the way you walk through this world forever.

she has learned to go away. you can see in her eyes, she isn't there.


my heart aches.


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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #74
93. As a survivor of this and a victim of clinical depression, I know how healing anger is
And how dangerous it is to not vent it.

I also realize that people who jockey for moral superiority by repressing others'
anger cause depression.

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varkam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #93
94. I'm a survivor and a victim of clinical depression, as well.
Edited on Thu Sep-27-07 08:15 PM by varkam
Anger and resentment, for me, have been better dealt with through forgiveness (but that is my experience - your mileage will vary).

As an aside, no one here has claimed to be morally superior to anyone else, nor has anyone tried to shut anyone else up.
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #94
96. Repressed anger CAUSES depression, my friend
You're taking the steps that trigger depression.

And if you're not claiming moral superiority, what are you doing? This seems very like
Bush's taking responsibility but saying it isn't his fault. You are saying our morals
(because we made the grave error of expressing ourselves honestly among friends, thinking
perhaps that anyone of good will would know we weren't serious) are less than yours.

This conversation has become entirely absurd. I feel we've little to say to each other
beyond this. Have your last word.
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varkam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #96
98. Are you a psychologist?
Edited on Thu Sep-27-07 08:24 PM by varkam
You're taking the steps that trigger depression.

That's a mighty irresponsible thing to say, even from you. Even if you were a psychologist, then you would undoubedly know that there are many causes of depression other than a dubious repression mechanism (that, according to you, I am causing).

And if you're not claiming moral superiority, what are you doing? This seems very like
Bush's taking responsibility but saying it isn't his fault. You are saying our morals
(because we made the grave error of expressing ourselves honestly among friends, thinking
perhaps that anyone of good will would know we weren't serious) are less than yours.


Voicing my opinion. That is still something that I am allowed to do, correct?
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Nutmegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #56
83. I'll add my voice...
I'm against the death penalty 100% of the time, NO EXCEPTIONS.

I'm also disgusted by the support for torture and prison rape here, but I guess that's to be expected. Let's all turn a blind eye while the murderers and street thugs torture an inmate. Because that will solve things, right?

Sorry, a murderer is a murderer no matter if he/she tortures an inmate. I will not look the other way.

People will bitch that "oh well you're human you have to feel that way!" No. No I do not "feel that way". I do not want to see any person tortured for any reason, regardless of the crime. I stand with human rights and treating everybody humanely.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #83
101. As a realist
a person capable of having sex with a 4 year old deserves to die behind bars, at minimum. Any bad fortune that happen to befall them would not cause me to loose sleep.

I understand your thoughts. However any person who has a child can see the other side.

My position is simple. Let human filth climb the walls at a supermax where they never see the sun or hear another persons voice. Pretty much the same as death, hopefully worse.

But if the mother or father (or any person actually) took any action against this person I would not vote to convict them of a crime.

No mercy for the merciless.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #101
104. Rabid dogs...a danger we kill to prevent tragedy


i love dogs. I would never kill a dog unless that dog became a danger to humans.

The monster who did this is human, yes, but he has chosen to act like an animal.

He should be disposed of as a rabid dog.

In my opinion.....


:kick: for all the abused babies out there; this little girl is one of many...don't turn your head no matter how much it hurts to acknowledge this horror....our natural defense of "looking away" - because this kind of sick thing is too much for a normal person to contemplate - is part of what allows this crap to go on...not to blame any of us for this man's rabies, but we as a society MUST talk about this issue and bring it to light for the victims.
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varkam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #104
108. You said it yourself.

The monster who did this is human, yes, but he has chosen to act like an animal.


The act is monsterous. The actor is still a human being.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #108
115. The actor is a monstor as well


He has chosen to do these things. He CHOSE to become an animal and should be treated as such. We may have empathy for the rabid dog, but we must have MORE empathy for those the dog may bite.

Putting this dog out of his misery is the kindest thing we can do for all involved. Not torture, as much as our anger may want this kind of revenge, but just sudden complete death so that no one else - including this twisted monster - will suffer.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #115
116. the difference here is that we aren't talking about
an animal-

We are talking about a human being. Try as you might, you can act like an animal, but you will never be able to become one. And no matter how repulsive the actions many humans engage in, they never cease to be of the human species.

Your statement
"He CHOSE to become an animal and should be treated as such. We may have empathy for the rabid dog, but we must have MORE empathy for those the dog may bite." is one i find very troubling. On many levels-

Do people who are not compromised in some major way, ever honestly choose to become "monsters"? (your term)

What healthy, well adjusted human being would choose a path that is certain to bring them and the society in which they live such a negative result?

What causes people to make such a bad choice?

How can society make changes which minimize the need for people to choose such a destructive path?

What role to we "non-monsters" play in the creation of a "monster"?

I lost an irretrievable part of myself at the age of 5 in a magnitutde not unlike the way this little girl is known to have been violated. This reality influenced my life in ways i would never have imagined, and which others around me could only see as 'willful' self destructiveness. No one ever put the peices of the puzzle together until it was nearly too late.

I'm not making a case to excuse our own personal responsibilities for our actions- ultimately self murder would be a 'moral person's' only 'good' option in some situations- but if we really want to change the world, we have to be willing to understand why people behave in ways which are harmful to themselves and others, and seek to find better alternatives.

War is the 'best' solution humanity has been able to come up with for so many situations which could be addressed and dealt with in ways which do not leave everyone worse off in the end.

We developed 'vaccines' to protect against getting rabies. Instead of simply shooting those poor dumb fucks who show up rabid - And we don't murder humans who contract rabies- there's actually one human being who survived a confirmed case of rabies within the last couple of years. I have confidence that there are medical reasearchers looking for ways to "cure" active rabies in animals just as there are for human victims.

Murdering those we choose to label 'monsters' is a slippery slope, no matter how outraged, frightened and repulsed we may be by their behaviours. And i assure you i feel all of these 'normal' responses myself, especially in response to this particular case.

off my soap-box now,

(facing your fears is exhausting)



blu
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varkam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #116
122. Indeed.
Murdering those we choose to label 'monsters' is a slippery slope, no matter how outraged, frightened and repulsed we may be by their behaviours. And i assure you i feel all of these 'normal' responses myself, especially in response to this particular case.

Excellent point.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #116
129. I appreciate your sentiments


and I do understand what you are saying. I still disagree.

I could spell out my own reasons but i will just say that I do admire those who are completely against the death penalty. However I will never be one of them in the case of this type of crime no matter how many explanations one gives.

If I caught this beast in the act I would kill him right then and there myself - with no doubts or hesitation - to defend the child. And as we have clear and absolute evidence that he has already hurt children in a hideous and horrific way he needs to be eliminated to defend the rest of society's children. Their safety and well-being is out of their control and in our hands.

We will just have to agree to disagree though I do appreciate the time you took to explain your own opinion on the death penalty.

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varkam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #115
121. No. The actor is still a human being.
And nothing that he can do will change that simple fact. His acts are monstrous, and he should be punished for them.

I strongly disagree that your assertion that murder is "the kindest thing that we can do for all involved". To me, that statement seems rather oxymoronic on it's face. Murder will not undo the suffering that this person has caused.
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varkam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 03:07 AM
Response to Reply #101
107. A person
capable of having sex with a 4 year old obviously needs some treatment. A person who actually does have sex with a 4 year old obviously needs to be punished and to be prevented from commiting future acts that are similiar in nature. Whether or not they see the light of day again, I think, depends on if they remain a risk after a certain period of incaraceration that is sufficient to satisfy general and specific deterrence, incapacitation, reaffirmation of social norms (which is a biggie in cases like this), and to a lesser extent retribution (as retribution should never be the primary justification for a criminal justice system).

I can see the other side as well, as I was a victim. I understand the emotions that crimes like this arouse in people, but reasonable decisions are almost never based upon raw emotion.

A human being is a human being is a human being, regardless of what they have done. I want to see this individual prosecuted and appropriate punished, and (contrary to your own feelings) I would rather regard any extra-judicial punishment as criminal as well. If that were not the case, then there would be no need for a criminal justice system in the first place. It is obvious that, if guilty, this individual deserves punishment - but that doesn't change the fact that he is a human being and should be afforded the basic rights we all are (such as protection under the law).

If you have no mercy for the merciless, doesn't that make one merciless as well?
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #107
118. i didn't read
this until after posting my response just now-

i wish i had.

you speak wisdom well.

thanks.
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
58. Kill The Bastard. n/t
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Feron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
65. I hope that precious little girl is found alive and..
that piece of shit in the video gets his comeuppance. I think the chipper/shredder suggestion upthread is too nice even feet first.

Thank God the other girl was found okay.
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
68. The poor baby,
kicking to catch the fucking monster.
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
79. Is this bastard a leading member of the republican party?
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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
80. UPDATED Photo of the man and slideshow for more possible ID
Edited on Thu Sep-27-07 06:56 PM by Whoa_Nelly
http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7127939


NEW: Police released a more enhanced photo of the suspect.


And one other:


Sideshow
http://lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=7133005
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. I am not bothered by much
and can tolerate pictures of human suffering and pain. It is a torrent that can not be stopped. Know what is smells like, seen it. However these people make me physically sick. Just leave a sad and violent feeling. I cant really have a rational conversation about this topic.

There are a myriad of ways to make a person like that suffer but none are realistic and they just make me sound like a terrible person. I truly hate that man and would feel nothing looking at his autopsy photos. Nothing but understanding for the person who put him there.

I just hope they find the kid.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
86. Dammit. I knew I didn't wanna click on this thread. Sigh.
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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #86
102. The more who know, the better the chance of recognizing this piece of scum
Thanks for clicking, anyway...and sorry..it's painful for me, too :hug:
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tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
88. I keep checking back for updates.
I'm hoping that she's found alive and SOON.

Looking at his photos just makes my stomach churn and my skin crawl.
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
89. She's just a baby!!
I never understand how anyone can look at a little one like that and even have sexual thoughts or feelings. It is such a sickness, and this little girl has suffered because of some sick "adult". Will probably be suffering to some degree the rest of her life.

I simply don't understand it.

I hope they find the little girl soon....and the creep that abused her.
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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 04:12 AM
Response to Original message
109. Go ahead and call me Torture Girl, I don't care. For what he's done to this baby,
I want this man found, and then I want him dead. In the longest, most painfully drawn out process imaginable.
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SalmonChantedEvening Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 05:53 AM
Response to Original message
110. Horror
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Please find that poor child and put this beast in a box.
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urgk Donating Member (982 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
112. Instead of fantasizing ways to kill this guy...
...and potentially undermining credibility in any future debate about habeus corpus in other matters, how about taking that incredibly understandable anger and using it to write a congressman or two about laws that help keep this kind of predator locked up?

I know it may not feel as immediately gratifying as dreaming up new methods of corporal punishment, but it's definitely more civil and probably more helpful in the long run.

I don't know enough about it to tell anybody the best place to start, but maybe this will help --> http://www2.oprah.com/presents/2005/predator/predator_main.jhtml

(note: this is in no way pointed at the OP, but at the general tone of the replies to it. In fact, thanks to Whoa_Nelly for the update)

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Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 07:12 AM
Response to Original message
113. this is heartbreaking
:cry: it makes my stomach reel...

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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 07:26 AM
Response to Original message
114. My heart breaks for this little girl
Poor, poor baby! I'd give anything to find her and protect her. I hope she is alive.

:cry: :cry: :cry:
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
117. This is the kind of story which makes me wonder if I am REALLY anti-death penalty. n/t
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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
120. Kicking back to the top for the Friday crew
Keep your eyes open, and, if you can, send the articles and photos to trusted friends.

The more people who see the photos, the greater the chance someone out there has seen this scumbag of a human being and/or this precious baby.



Where are you, Honey? We're looking for you! :grouphug:

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FooFootheSnoo Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
124. Is there any way we can take the pictures off the threads?
She's been found. We should respect her privacy.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #124
125. thank you for caring
about her-

she's been violated enough.

peace~
blu
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Kaylee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #124
127. I wonder how the family.....
will deal with the fact that her face has been in the media (and rightly so, considering the supposed circumstances). Especially since this is an incident that the mother did not know about and the now 7 year old does not remember.

I mean you have been happily enjoying your life, and believe all is well with your family and then something like this comes out. Death would be too good for the man who did this.
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kdmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #127
130. As soon as they found her today
The media started blurring out her face.

Good idea, I think. Now that's she's been found, hopefully we can all forget her face. At least they didn't release pictures of what she looks like now.
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