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Time to pull up stakes and secede: Republic of California

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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 12:53 PM
Original message
Time to pull up stakes and secede: Republic of California


I guess it's come down to this. After our Tonkin Gulf Resolution we just passed against Iran, we are going to start a war with another mideast Theocracy. Great. Couldn't these fucks take a cue from Reagan (yeah, THAT Reagan) and get the fuck out of the Mideast like he did (Lebanon, 82).

And guess who comes after Iran? Yep, Lebanon. Not many noticed but Bush recently lumped Lebanon with Afghanistan and Iraq. Expect to see us dumb rushing into that country next.

With what soldiers? you might ask...

Well the draft is coming back. There's no other way. So expect to see our sons and daughters sent off to these hell holes to get killed. Expect to see more videos of Americans being beheaded, more posts on Al Jazeera being shot by snipers. Expect to see the Democratic nominee "supporting the troops" by staging a photo op. I literally wouldn't be surprised if Karl Rove went to work with whomever wins the Democratic nomination.

So, the only thing left to do is leave. Or rather, now that America has left us - places like California need to secede. We were a country once, we can do it again. This time, without Sonoma as our capitol. All that wine might lead our senators and assemblypersons to bad decisions.

Hell, we could even split California in two: American California and The Republic of California. Leave the Central Valley to Jesusland, and we take the rest.

And what about those electoral votes the Dems need from California? Well they pissed those away, so fuck off.

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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. we'll have to do an Ahhhrnold coup first
i ain't lettin' the Gropinator become Presidunt of Kalifornya!
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. By the time it takes us to get a movement, he'll be out of office
But if it takes Ahhhnold as President to do it, it's all worth it.
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
58. Arnold would probably enjoy being President of California very much.
People at the U.N. would probably cheer for Arnold, unlike President-for-Life of the Disunited States, George W. Bush,

:scared:
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Auggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. ROC -- that's pretty cool
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
3. Cool
You can be allies with the "The North East States of America". It's coming.... not tommorrow, but it is coming.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Didn't Vermont or New Hampshire used to be its own nation too?
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. Texas still maintains the right to secede.
The Republic of Texas was a pretty fine place.

My family was part of it.

But I am all for splitting off of this United States.

I say we move the Capitol to Marin, San Rafael maybe.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #20
65. Not really...
Texas may split into five states, but may not secede....



http://www.snopes.com/history/american/texas.asp

Another Texas-related legend holds that the Texans negotiated an annexation treaty which reserved to them the right to secede from the Union without the consent of the U.S. Congress, but the terms of Texas' annexation contain no such provision.


Not that I care about it-- we Texans do a piss poor job of running a state, let alone a country...
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jhrobbins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #20
72. Tom, my family was too - I am a 7th generation Texan and on top
of that (and not too many people outside of Texas will know who this is, as I have discovered in the past), my great, great, great uncle was Stephen F Austin. Just a little historical footnote that my family is VERY proud of - our family reunions can get very unbearable on this topic sometimes.
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. There's some bragging rights. But the first guy doesn't stand a chance.
My family comes from a clan of four families who settled in what is now Angelina County in 1630.

Yep, we were in Texas before the Mayflower landed.

The first Anglo families south of the Red and west of the Sabine.

We still have two of our original Grants.

I am the only person in my huge family (going back to second cousins, anyway) who lives outside of the State.

And I really miss it. Every day.
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
46. Vermont n/t
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
52. Vermont -- interesting!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Vermont

Of course, Hawaii was an independent kingdom, then a republic, became a state "involuntarily".
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
57. Vermont.
Edited on Wed Sep-26-07 03:08 PM by Tesha
But I see I'm late to the party ;).

Tesha
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goodgd_yall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
29. Perfect n/t
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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
6. Oh, Please do not forsake me and doom me to Jesusland!
Am only here because my grandchildren are here.

....on second thought...maybe making that move back to Tucson IS a good idea after all...


As for that amendment passing today...

(My rant)

Our nation, and the world at large, is now officially FUCKED!

We really need a megamillion citizen march and sit-in in DC NOW!

How can we start this?

Do I need to start walking, get media coverage, and hope millions will join?

Dammit! This bullshit has got to stop!

IMPEACH Bush and Cheney!

Make Congress rescind this fateful folly!
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Congress won't listen. Bush and Cheney aren't going to be impeached.
There might be protest after protest, but they will be footnotes on page 19. The bad guys won and don't intend to leave.

Time to pack up - California could always use new citizens.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
7. Where will you get your food and water if you leave out the valley and mountains?
:shrug:

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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Oh we get the mountains :)
Edited on Wed Sep-26-07 01:10 PM by Taverner
And probably part of the Central Valley (near Sacramento)

But Southern Central Valley could go to AZ or NV...

ON EDIT: I was thinking something like this:



The Red Being ROC

The White being Jesusland
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tandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Hey. You are leaving Placer County in Jesusland. That is NOT fair.
I guess we'll have to move to Lake County. We like it there, too. Nice wineries.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Did I leave Placer County out?
I shouldn't have! Placerville is a California Mountain Hippie as you can get!
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tandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
53. The part of Placer County I am living in (Rocklin) is not too Hippie
The majority in our District votes Republican. However, we already can see the tide turning.
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pfitz59 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #13
107. Placerville is in El Dorado County
Repuke haven!
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PDenton Donating Member (513 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Sorry, California sucks
And I was born in California (Riverside), though my only memories were my family friends in San Bernadino and Disneyland. Too many people now days don't speak English there and it is overcrowded. Maybe northern California would be OK though.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. "Too many people now days don't speak English there "
A bit xenophobic are we?

Que racisto!
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goodgd_yall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Those kind usually move to Idaho.
And good riddance, I say.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. Yep, either Sandpoint or Cour d'Laine
Where they can practice their NeoNazi fun in the woods
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PDenton Donating Member (513 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #36
68. I'm not a neo-nazi
But it's creepy living in a place and feeling like you are an alien, even though you've been there for a decade. Now I know how black people feel; being a minority.

I live in Florida. In some parts (heck, many parts) of town you step out and you get the feeling you don't belong there. Nobody speaks English. I speak Spanish but that doesn't matter, I still feel like parts of the town aren't American at all anymore.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #68
75. I grew up in California - so change is what I'm comfortable with
Ever since I can remember, home has had an ever changing demographic. When I was a kid, it was Mexicans and Vietnamese immigrants. Soon after, the El Salvadorenos and Nicaraguans came here. After that it was the Russians and Hong Kong Chinese came here. During the tech boom, Indians, Pakistanis and Chinese came. It's beautiful - the entire world here in one city.
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PDenton Donating Member (513 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #75
82. believe it or not
I've travelled the world. I'm tired of travelling, and a little worn out of multi-culturalism. Sure, I don't like crass rednecks and I like a little diversity but I also like some place that feels like home. Maybe if I ever get the dough together I'll move to some place in the midwest. My family is originally from Tulsa (and that is a nice cit, though it's neglected in places), I'm a military brat myself.
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goodgd_yall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #82
87. I think it's a good experience to have
To live in a place where you are the minority for a change. I've experienced that in a couple of towns on the central coast. I,too, think "this is what it must be to be latino." I take it as a learning experience.

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adigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #68
102. They are American - think of how people felt when Italians came
The Irish were here right before the Italians, so they hated them. The Irish were hated by those who came before them - my father has old signs that say, "Help Wanted: Irish Need Not Apply."

Everyone hates the new guys.
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PDenton Donating Member (513 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 05:34 AM
Response to Reply #102
113. At least the Irish spoke English
I'm just wondering if anybody has thought about how the large Latino population will assimilate, or even if they will assimilate. One reason I believe illegal immigration is bad is because illegal immigrants don't have to pass all those civic literacy tests. My dad has a friend who immigrated to the US from India, now a US citizen, and he had to take a bunch of tests and learn alot of stuff about the US government and history. Just by learning that stuff it helps him to be an American and share our values. Illegal immigrants don't have to learn that.
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Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 05:41 AM
Response to Reply #68
115. OH NOES you are a white person on a planet that is mostly brown.
:cry: :nopity:
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #36
95. I used to live in the Sandpoint area. The neo-Nazis confined themselves
to compounds where they could act out and shoot each other for fun. No one else liked them nor had much to do with them other than to stay out of their way. It's unfair to portray all North Idahoans as neo-Nazis.
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
64. Spanish speaking California is my home.
For the most part, I love it.

I'm always uncomfortable in places where everyone is white and speaks only English. It's just feels creepy to me.
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PDenton Donating Member (513 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. that's fair enough, people have different likes
It's just my preference. I guess some people like it, but from what I understand, it isn't the same California I was born in.

BTW, I speak Spanish, I used to speak almost fluently. Everything I read about California though makes it sound like its mired in poverty and crime, heading for a third world country and very much overpopulated and highways everywhere. Maybe it's different away from LA.

Idaho sucks too. Too many crazy religious nuts. No place in the US is perfect but California is overrated.
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goodgd_yall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #67
89. I have a friend who moved to California in the 50s
Edited on Wed Sep-26-07 06:18 PM by goodgd_yall
He would speak how regrettably California has changed. He really saw it grow and become unfriendly. It has grown a lot since I've been here (the 60s), but I still think Northern California is a great place to live. I will say, I was really turned off when I drove between San Diego and Orange County 20 years ago and saw mile after mile of construction. So I might feel differently if I lived in that area of California.
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PDenton Donating Member (513 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #89
116. California looks great, but I don't think it is sustainable
Edited on Thu Sep-27-07 06:44 AM by PDenton
Being into motorcycling, there is this guy on Youtube, SFNinja, who does helmet-cams of rides around California. He lives in San Francisco and takes trips out into the mountains, also sometimes down towards LA. There is alot of scenic stuff to see.

OTOH, I don't think the kind of growth California is expecting is environmentally sustainable. California still has a fast growing population is going to pose severe challenges to that area. All that natural beeauty is going to go bye-bye if somebody doesn't put a stop to the population growth, or at least channel it into a more sustainable manner. One that isn't as water and car dependent.

Florida is undergoing something similar, though our population is lower. I'm actually glad there is a housing crunch here, because I've seen alot of the scenic beauty in Orlando go down the toilet too, in favor of yet more condominiums, apartments, and check-cashing strip malls. Most of the growth that has happened has attracted lower-income people and not brought good jobs- in fact some good jobs have actually left Orlando (the naval training center or defense finance accounting service, for instance). Crime has gone up as well. The amount of large roads that get built that turn into parking lots overnight is also growing, just like in California.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
97. Then you must have had blinders on. I lived in San Bernardino
Edited on Wed Sep-26-07 07:10 PM by Cleita
and there is a very large hispanic population there and in Riverside even back in the late forties and early fifties when I lived there.
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PDenton Donating Member (513 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #97
114. I was less than 2 years old
it's remarkeable I remember any of it at all.

California isn't a Mecca for me, way too much crime, third world poverty, and too many roads and sprawl. If that's what being a liberal entails, going to California as some kind of Zion, I'm not for it. Democrats should be something the whole country can be a part of, not some kind of Doomsday cult.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #114
118. Excuse me but there is far more third world poverty in parts of
the northwest and south, in states that are Republican strongholds, than there is in California. I have to agree with the roads and sprawl, but that's because economic opportunities attracts people here, not only from all over the USA but all over the world. If the rest of the country took care of their own, and if the USA didn't exploit every other country in the world, California wouldn't be absorbing every refugee immigrant from third world countries and unemployed workers from the rest of the states.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
55. So you'd give up
the Modoc plateau, half of Lassen, half of Tahoe, King's Canyon, Sequoia, Mt Whitney, and Death Valley? :shrug:
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
77. Good luck with that.
Most of those inland counties have a reich wing majority and a high rate of gun ownership. In my Central Valley county (Stanislaus) Bush won by a landslide in both elections. Even our Democrats are conservative.

And in those mountain counties, reich wingers tend to outnumber liberals 5 to 1.

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tandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
10. We already moved from Oklahoma to sunny California in 2004 and love it
However, California should secede as a whole and not be split up in two parts :evilgrin:
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blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
66.  I loved calif too for a few years
That was in 1981 to maybe 1987 then it went to hell real quick and I'm still stuck here . no seasons , people so full of shit they spill out on the sidewalks and relentless sun , not to leave out all the traffic and cars everywhere .
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kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #66
79. now wait just a minute, there are too seasons in CA!
one just has to live above the 1000' elevation. We are having a lovely autumn here and spring is wonderful- wildflowers everywhere. You just need to get out of the cities. Oh, and my area is almost 2-to-1 Dem.
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tandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #66
84. Not having rain for a about half a year is something I had to get used to
However, I just came back from a visit to Oklahoma and it was about 100 degrees with a humidity of about 95%. I forgot how bad the summers get in Oklahoma. And it barely cooled down in the evenings. I'd rather take several month without rain and dry heat.

Traffic can be bad here but I am usually taking the train to and from work. In all, I am happy to be here :)
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
11. Hope you guys have room cause I'm comin' west if you split off!!
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
14. If California secedes, we take the sixth largest economy in the
world with us and that would kick the USA, the first largest economy in the world, down a few notches. It would really hurt the union drastically reducing their world power. They would fight like hell not to let us go for that reason. We would have Blackwater mercenaries all over our streets fighting our state national guard and us the citizens of California. Of course Arnold would never allow it unless we threw him in jail first. So think carefully about what you wish for.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. As an ex-Californian, now in Washington, I'd be tempted to move back.
But, I still have hopes of Washington becoming Baja British Columbia.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. We once talked about the nation of Pacifica, Washington,
Oregon and California seceding together. I have to say DU got uncomfortable with the concept and posts were forbidden about it. This was more than four years ago. I don't know how long this post will stay up, but it does merit a discussion.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. I'd certainly be for it.
I've lived in all 3 (born in L.A.) and think it would make a helluva a nice nation.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. We would have all the pacific coast ports. That would be important.
Edited on Wed Sep-26-07 01:50 PM by Cleita
It could start a trend. Maybe the east coast liberals might want to secede and form a nation of their own. That would leave Jesusland in the middle.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #25
34. I actually believe that something like that will happen.
Eventually, the American Empire will no longer be able to control the client states and will be unable to sustain itself.

At which point it may very well fragment into multiple states. Or, at least, be diminished into a "second rate power" forced to find other means to make it viable.



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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
43. The Republic of Cascadia
Washington, Oregon and British Columbia
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #43
49. Why not California?
Edited on Wed Sep-26-07 02:25 PM by Cleita
You guys are always leaving us out and you need us if you are going to have a chance in the world of surviving. And frankly I was in B. C. last month. The Canadians seem to be pretty clear that they don't want to be joined with Americans. They are polite and congenial towards us but it's obvious that they don't like us.
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #49
54. OK, deal. The Republic of Pacifica. California, Oregon and Washington.
We'll also take Arizona and Nevada for good measure.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #54
59. See Ernest Callenbach's novel "Ecotopia" for details...
Edited on Wed Sep-26-07 03:13 PM by Tesha
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #54
63. Please leave Oregon and Washington out
We're in negotiations with Canada.
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #63
71. The Republic of Cascadia
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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #43
111. And part of California:
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
15. There's a neighborhood in San Diego that nobody wants
University Heights and Normal Heights both deny that it belongs to them.

I suggested to some residents that they name it "Moosylvania" and declare independence from the city.

http://behi.org/forum
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
16. I wish we could...
But remember, the South tried this, and it didn't work...

*sigh*

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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
32. The South isn't California.
The South was basically rural with a small ruling class and a lot of poor people and slaves. California or the whole West Coast is quite a different culture and still a fairly booming economy and urban culture. I think the reason we don't do it is that it would cause a lot of upheaval locally for awhile, being cut off from federal programs like Social Security that people rely on. On the other hand, all that tax money we pay to support population and GDP poor states, we could keep to start programs like this.
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kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #32
80. financially we would come out ahead
the last stats I saw said that Cal. gets back $.81 for every dollar we send to DC. This way we would get to keep our money at home.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #80
92. This is why they would fight us to keep us.
USA would be a much poorer country without all the California tax revenue.
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
19. That succession thing always works out so well anyway.
Edited on Wed Sep-26-07 01:40 PM by Lex

Besides, didn't you guys elect Ahhhnold?




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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Get serious. That whole recall thing was an egregious misuse
Edited on Wed Sep-26-07 01:51 PM by Cleita
of a tool to get rid of a really incompetent governor because the way of counting the votes ended up with Arnold getting elected with fewer votes than he would have needed in a regular election. It's the reason no one is recalling him now, because of how flawed the law is and we could get worse. Of course once he was entrenched in power, as a Hollywood actor, he was able to use his publicity savvy to market himself as a great governor to the stupid and Angelides did not run a good campaign against him.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #19
61. er.. don't you mean Secession?
Succession is an entirely different thing :)
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mulsh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
26. been tried before rember the State of Jefferson
I agree but you should read this post and go to the link, maybe we can learn from past mistakes.
http://www.jeffersonstate.com/jeffersonstory.html




There have been many attempts at forming a new state comprised of northern California and southern Oregon, but none has gained so much attention and retained it as the secession movement of 1941.

The abundant supply of minerals and timber in this region was largely inaccessible due to the lack of sufficient roads and bridges into the rugged mountain border country. The local pioneering people grew weary of unfulfilled promises from Salem and Sacramento to help fund sufficient highway projects in the region while building campgrounds in the cities where there were more votes.

Representatives from the mountain border counties involved met in Yreka, CA on November 17, 1941 to form an alliance to obtain federal aid for the construction and repair of bridges and roads. The Siskiyou County Board of Supervisors voted to allocate $100 to research the possibility of seceding from the state of California and joining the other counties to form a new 49th state. The Yreka Chamber of Commerce was very instrumental in persuading the Board.

The local newspaper ran a contest to name the new state and the winning entry was Jefferson. The winner of the contest pocketed $2 for his efforts. Yreka was designated the temporary state capital where the State of Jefferson Citizens Committee was formed.
They proceeded to stop traffic on Highway 99 outside of town and handed their Proclamation of Independence out to travelers.

Jefferson made the papers nearly every day, competing with headlines of Germany's ravaging of Europe. The San Francisco Chronicle sent a young reporter, Stanton Delaplane, to cover the events. He traveled the rain-soaked roads to speak with locals to get a feel for the secession movement from their point of view. He got stuck in the mud down the Klamath River but that did not stop him from writing a series of colorful articles on the rebellion which earned him the coveted Pulitzer Prize.

On December 4, Judge John L. Childs of Crescent City in Del Norte County was elected governor. A torchlight parade complete with horses, marching bands and sign-carrying young people riding in trucks was held in Yreka followed by a ceremonious inauguration held on the courthouse lawn.

Hollywood newsreel companies were present to record the events, including the highway barricades. The State of Jefferson was off to a banner start.

The newsreels were to air nationally the week of December 8, but tragically on December 7th Pearl Harbor was bombed and the State of Jefferson rebellion of 1941 came to an end. The people of the region went to work for the war effort and good roads were eventually built into the backcountry to access strategic minerals and timber. These same roads have helped countless numbers of rural families make a living from the land that continues to produce abundant, quality natural resources.

The State of Jefferson 'state of mind' remains in the hearts and minds of people everywhere.

More reading...
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #26
45. Northern California rural people have been wanting to break
from the urbanized southern areas of California ever since I can remember. What they really need is a government that pays attention to their unique problems. Our present federal government pretty much ignores them and the state can't really fix a lot for them without a strong centralized government giving them the money and programs that they need to thrive. They naively don't realize that they can't sustain themselves in such a small geographical area.
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goodgd_yall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
27. Sounds good to me.
I always thought the break should be North and South though. We northern Californians get to have San Francisco and Southern California can have Santa Cruz.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
30. So Cal would cease to exist without water from the Colorado.
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Yeah. Nevada and Arizona could just turn off the tap
and let Lake Meade fill all the way back up. Not to mention the devious things we folks in Colorado and Utah could do to the Colorado and the Green to make all that water in LA just dry up.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. That is a problem, but not insurmountable. There is technology
now to desalinate water from the ocean and we have plenty of ocean. To be really practical, we should involve all states west of the continental divide, like Colorado. Even though some of them are red, they are western and are on the same page as Californians about governance, more so than those states east of the continental divide.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Desalination costs money & the pop. is just far too large to come up w/ an alternative water source
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. It does today, but necessity has always been the mother of
invention and I'm sure those who need it will come up with an inexpensive solution when under the gun.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. Yeah but then you would be talking about a mass die off in the meantime.
You can't crash program a water source for 20 million people.

And that's just drinking water to say nothing about crops.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. Nah! People would just move. We still have roads.
Many of our crops are exported to foreign markets anyway. We would probably have to cut back, but the Central Valley is slowly being salinated and the land is becoming less productive because of corporate farming practices. Maybe it needs to lie fallow for awhile anyway.
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #47
78. Good luck maintaining those roads without federal transportation money.
And when those pesky Chinese warships show up off the coast, who ya gonna call? China Busters!? Do you think for a minute that in its heavy-handed way, the US wouldn't lay waste to this place without regard to "collateral damage" to prevent China from establishing a forward base here?

How long before Mexico notices that the Stars and Stripes no longer waves over California? Do we have enough of a military machine of our own here to fend off a hostile takeover? I wonder what we'd call this place then... Calexico? Mexicali? (Surely that's where the new national capital would be) Or maybe Aztlan? Alta California?

And when "them that gots" decide to take their money and move east so as to as to have their asses protected by the flag, what then?

Shortsigthed at best, suicidal at worst.
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kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #78
85. California belonged to Spain
at one time, so did Mexico. After that, we were a part of Mexico until 1848. There is this document, called the "Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo" that has something to do with our being part of the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Guadalupe_Hidalg...

for the original:
http://www.loc.gov/rr/hispanic/ghtreaty /

So nothing new under the sun. We make new treaties w/US & Mexico and continue on.
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #85
91. A treaty with Mexico isn't going to mean much to the Chinese who already have a deep water port here
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #78
94. Since we would be keeping our tax revenue I don't think
maintaining roads and infrastructure would be a problem. During the cold war we always were looking for invading Chinese popping up on our coastlines. They never came. They just bought the USA instead. I doubt that many would move their money because a large part of California's wealth is in real estate. It just stays right here.
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tyedyeto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #30
109. Not to mention the water from Northern CA in the Owens Valley
If that is cut off, water wars will begin.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
31. It's coming but not for the resaons you are thinking
the fall of the Ameircan Empire will bring with it the disolution of this country... and the emergence of anywhere from three to five successor states.

Empires do that, and the most recent to break appart was the USSR...
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #31
39. Good point.
We might just be better off as a federation of sorts like in Europe today the EU, as independent sovereign nations, but with agreements to trade and share with each other like a monetary system, but with no power of one nation to demand that the others provide soldiers for wars of invasion.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #39
70. Thsi country will not break up into a loose federation
It will be nasty, it will be bloody, and it will be painful.

Think Rome...

And in the worst of all possible cases... again think rome... and humanity will loose anywhere from three to five billion people before the dust settles, and perhaps even a memory of our age.

No, I'm not too hopeful today.

Perhaps it is time I go get the laptop, before inflation makes it unachievable...

LOL

So it can go away in the EMP of a nuke, just before it disapears with me... yep live on a primary target. So I don't expect to see the other side if things get as bad as they possibly could.
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warren pease Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #70
76. Here in Baja Canada...
... in what's now called Oregon, I'd be extremely happy to see OR, WA and northern CA secede and claim allegiance to Canada. Just the health care system alone would make it worthwhile, although not living in a "great power" would also be cool for a change.


wp
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #76
88. You no longer do, if that makes you feel better
just that events have not caught up to facts yet

But the speech by chimpy before the General Assembly and the chilly reception is but one more sign of how much influence we no longer have
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #70
99. Too bad you feel that way. I'm far more optimistic.
But get the laptop anyway. Inflation really bothers me because I live on income from my savings besides SS. Inflation could put me out in the street, but it would do the same to millions of others so I think then you would see some real rebellion happening.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
38. The Supreme Court has ruled that Constitution did not permit states to secede
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. A geographical area that wants to declare itself a new nation
will have to come up with their own constitution. They will no longer be subject to the old nation's constitution. It's like you telling me I have to drive an old car after I bought a new one.
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adigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #38
103. The Supreme Court also said to stop the vote count
and give the Presidency to Gore. They are insignificant if states secede - the states no longer recognize their authority.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
41. That would be better than my idea, to blow up the bridges
and to build a wall at the SF County line.

I've been working and now I'm afraid to ask, what happened?
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
48. I'm not opposed to California secession but why don't all of us who support Kucinich
Move to Hawaii (where, i understand, he is supported in droves)

We secede there and live off coconuts and be happy.

American Army in Iraq - no worry about troops coming to change our minds.

Kucinich become President of Hawaii and all of us celebrate every day.

Hula dancing, sun bathing, swimming with dolphins.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #48
62. But everything in HI costs tons of $$$$
And what of those who want IT ALL?

That's California, baybeeeeeeee!!!

Mountains, beaches, tropics, deserts, farmlands and even an East Coast-esque city or two!
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american_typeculture Donating Member (227 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
50. Cool, I want to be governor of Humboldt.
:smoke:
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
51. That was my sentiment when I picked my handle when I joined DU!
Perhaps it IS time again sometime.

I think first we should put an initiative on the ballot to have a state militia that we would more heavily recruit for to do the things that the National Guard would normally do, except it would be TOTALLY under state control and couldn't get "called up" for national service. Then for starters we'd have a guaranteed force of people to protect the state against any national disasters that might happened (whether they happened to be planned by certain people or not).

And secondly, if we DO secede, they'd immediately become our "armed forces". Any military that are resident at the time of the secession would have the option of leaving or joining the militia.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #51
56. We can't do a hill of beans until we dethrone Arnold, however,
Edited on Wed Sep-26-07 03:00 PM by Cleita
about the military, how about declaring eminent domain on all the military bases and military equipment stored in them in those states? That gives us hardware and other equipment for an army, navy and air force. Then we can give all generals and other military personnel say 72 hours to either leave and go back to Washington, D. C. or swear allegiance to the new sovereign nation of Pacifica. Oh yes, we should do your state militia idea too.
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #56
69. That is how the Civil War started.

Lest we confuse the history here, the Civil War did not begin when states seceded. It began with an attack upon a US military base.


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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #69
83. I think anyone who entertains this idea seriously knows that
there would be a civil war, whether we take military assets or not. If we don't, then the feds have a military to subdue us within our borders. If we do they will attack us to get their assets back. It's a given IMHO. Of course I really am not entertaining this idea seriously. I do feel it's important to discuss it though so everyone becomes aware of what would happen, IF......
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adigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #83
104. Um...the army appears to be otherwise engaged
to do anything to stop states from seceding.

Of course, I too am thinking theoretically. Just have to say that so the Homeland Security dudes don't have a cow on me.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
60. CalOrExico
:)
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #60
74. i like Mexifornia!
and think of the heart attacks a name like that would give the tacky racists.

i LOVE it!
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
81. We did this a fewl years back at the DU: California, Oregon & Washingon pull out & become Pacifica
Nevada and Arizona don't qualify yet, although New Mexico does.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
86. Hey, please include Oregon and Washington. The Left Coast Republic.
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goodgd_yall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #86
90. That would be a good name n/t
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Jade Fox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #86
100. Yes! Ecotopia reborn!!
Read the book iffin ya don't know what I'm talking about.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
93. I can see more states seceding
its very possible
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
96. I'm in!
Think of all the money we put into the government, now think of all that money actually going toward making our own people safe, warm, fed, and medically sound!

I'm sooooo in!
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
98. You are, of course, wasting your time.
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adigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
101. Please - take New York, too. And the rest of the
northeast. Plus some of the states such as Illinois, Oregon, Washington state. I have been thinking about this for a long time, wondering what it will take.

The southern states will starve without our tax dollars. Let's see them try to survive without us northeastern godless liberals.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #101
105. Maybe the whole country should secede from
Washington, D. C.. We could take the civilian residents in as refugees in adjoining states. Then the Executive Office, Congress, The Supreme Court and the Pentagon wouldn't have an tax revenue from anyone. It would be a government without a nation.
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FreepFryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #105
106. New York will form its own republic...
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pfitz59 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
108. Ecotopia!
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pfitz59 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #108
112. More links
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tyedyeto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
110. It was tried 25 or so years ago and failed
since So. Cal has the voting power. I signed many petitions back then as a resident and it never went anywhere.

IMHO, water is the main issue to a two 'California's' state.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 06:49 AM
Response to Original message
117. If California were to secede I would move there in a heartbeat. n/t
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