The name of this board implies resistance movement.

[american_typeculture]

So, why so many who are willing to side with law enforcement?

[Kelly Rupert]

1. I was unaware that this board required the belief that law enforcement is always in the wrong. n/t

[Jed Dilligan]

4. Thinking they are always in the right is inconsistent with

opposition to the regime in power.

[Kelly Rupert]

12. I was unaware we had to believe cops were either Always Right or Always Wrong.

[Jed Dilligan]

20. Seems to fall out that way, though, doesn't it?

Link me to your post where you said a cop was wrong and I'll buy it.

[Kelly Rupert]

25. Here you go.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1843968&mesg_id=1846695

[Jed Dilligan]

32. Okay, then. nt

[TwilightZone]

21. They're all "manly men" who demand to be worshipped!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1847870&mesg_id=1847870

[Jed Dilligan]

30. Oh go to hell nt

[TwilightZone]

39. Well, don't make a ridiculous assertion if you don't want it to be questioned.

n/t

[Jed Dilligan]

41. You've latched on to two or three words in one of my posts

and got yourself all in a tizzy. Relax. Go drink some lemonade or something.

[Kelly Rupert]

43. In TZ's defense,

those were rather pointlessly inflammatory.

[Jed Dilligan]

48. No more inflammatory than the multitude of posts

suggesting that we must defer to the authority of the police simply because they have the ability to kick our ass (or kill us if they see fit).

[Kelly Rupert]

62. Can you find me a post saying that?

Because I can't seem to find anyone saying, "Gee, you know, we ought to always submit to power as a universal principle."

[Jed Dilligan]

65. Here

Both 94 and 100 chiming in

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2994786#2995277

[TwilightZone]

6. Didn't you get the memo?

All cops are evil. They serve no purpose in society.

[Jed Dilligan]

19. The causality is fuzzy at best

Municipalities get richer, are able to hire more cops, and crime goes down. Is it because of the cops, or because of the wealth? No one really knows. There should definitely be more cops in poor neighborhoods and less in rich neighborhoods. The over-policing of suburbia is just soft-path racial and economic segregation, and the under-policing of the inner cities leads to control of whole neighborhoods by criminal gangs. Something is horribly wrong with the system, and the horrible behavior we OFTEN encounter from the system's executors (and sometimes, executioners) should be expected from a broken system.

[TwilightZone]

24. So that means all cops are evil?

Good luck with that.

[Jed Dilligan]

27. I never said that

Most of them are rotten in my experience. They'll get no love or sympathy or help from me. But why should they care what I think if they actually are good cops? I've actually met some good cops, and universally they are completely unaffected by what people think of cops. If it does matter to them it means they have a guilty conscience or are afraid of being discovered.

[TwilightZone]

31. You cannot be serious.

What do you think you're saying in this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1847870&mesg_id=1847870

Sorry, but your words and your explanation don't match. Have a nice day.

[Jed Dilligan]

33. You seem to be really unclear

on what that thread is actually saying. Are you a cop, btw?


on edit: looking back, I can't see what exactly about that other OP is different from what I said in this thread above. What is inconsistent? Or are you just dense?

[TwilightZone]

37. What that thread is saying is quite clear, actually.

And, no, I'm not a cop.

[Vincardog]

2. How does DEMOCRATIC imply resistance movement? Unless you mean resistance to tyranny.

[Jed Dilligan]

5. "Underground" implies resistance is my interpretation of the OP. nt

[tcfrogs]

8. Same here n/t

[Hissyspit]

18. Um, UNDERGROUND

As in underground movement. 'Democratic' is actually the qualifier on the noun: 'Underground.'

[cali]

3. more mischaracterizing. more bullshit

[american_typeculture]

9. "underground" is mis-charachterizing?

Per haps you would explain what that part of the name means since I'm new here.

[onenote]

14. Take the time to read the "About DU" section

"Democratic Underground (DU) was founded on Inauguration Day, January 20, 2001, to protest the illegitimate presidency of George W. Bush and to provide a resource for the exchange and dissemination of liberal and progressive ideas. Since then, DU has become one of the premier left-wing websites on the Internet, publishing original content six days a week, and hosting one of the Web's most active left-wing discussion boards.

We welcome Democrats of all stripes, along with other progressives who will work with us to achieve our shared goals."

[cali]

23. no, it's your comment that implies

many people here sided with what the cops did to Andrew Meyer. Most people here did NOT endorse the tasering.

[american_typeculture]

26. and I applaud those who did side with Mr. Meyer.

It's just surprising that about half did not.

[cali]

35. Let me make myself clear

I think Andrew Meyer is a self-promoting little scam artist, who engaged in disruptive and disorderly conduct. He resisted leaving when asked to so, and resisted arrest. He should have been handcuffed and escorted out, not tased, but I certainly don't side with him. Nor do I side with the cops who tased him. I side with Sen. Kerry and the students at the forum.

[Mike Daniels]

56. One can feel the cops were wrong to taser the guy

but have no other feelings of support for Mr. Meyer's actions or behavior immediately prior to the tasing.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[american_typeculture]

11. So, "sit down and shut up"

is what you are telling me?

[Kelly Rupert]

After a fashion, perhaps.

Wandering into a board and telling everyone that they're not good members and that you know what this site's all about--when your post count's in double digits--isn't going to win you any friends.

We aren't saying "Your opinion is worthless because you have a low post count." That makes no sense. People are saying that your opinion as regards the mission and character of this board is.

[onenote]

17. no. read the about DU section so you know what you are participating in

[Chovexani]

22. Pretty much.

As we say on Fandom Wank, lurk moar.

[zeemike]

42. Well I welcome you

And implore you not to sit down and shut up

[TahitiNut]

38. After so long on DU it'd seem you'd know ...

Do not draw negative attention to the fact that someone is new, has a low post count, or recently became a member of Democratic Underground. Do not insinuate that because someone is new, they are a troll or disruptor.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

Please read the DU Rules.

[onenote]

52. fair point. I should've just invited him to read the About DU section

[karlrschneider]

10. And you are some kind of fucking expert on "this board"...how?

:eyes:

[Virginia Dare]

13. It implies we're all moles...n/t

[TwilightZone]

28. *snort*

[zippy890]

15. I don't side with no law enforcement

but hey, this is the Democratic Underground so if others want to

's ok by me

:hi:

Welcome to DU

[Virginia Dare]

50. Why even have law enforcement then..

let's just become a society of anarchists and vigilantes. Are there bad cops? Sure there are, plenty of them. But there are many more who are just doing their jobs of protecting law abiding citizens, and upholding the law, which is there for a reason. There is an appropriate time and place for everything.

[AndyA]

16. It's just a name.

Contrary to the Republicans who have no respect for the law of the land, the Constitution, our rights, or anything else, most Democrats tend to believe in and support those things.

If there's any resistance, it's only against those who are breaking the law. (Like the GOP.)

Enjoy your stay at DU! :hi:

[atreides1]

36. Interesting, now DU is the "Law and Order"Site

"If there's any resistance, it's only against those who are breaking the law."

So, if a law is passed that creates internment camps for all citizens of the Islamic faith, you wouldn't have a problem with that, because it is the law? And you wouldn't resist a law, as long as it's the law of the land?

[Kelly Rupert]

40. That law would pretty clearly be unconstitutional

and therefore enforcement of it would be illegal.

[zeemike]

49. Boy are you living in a dream world

The constitution did not stop it from happening to the Japanese in the 40s

[Kelly Rupert]

54. I never said it wouldn't happen. I said it would be illegal.

And the Japanese internment was illegal.

[AndyA]

58. Give me a break. Those are your thoughts, not mine.

What is it with people who jump to conclusions and make assumptions and expand on what someone writes. :wtf:

[The Count]

29. I thought too that activism would be saluted here...

But then again, Kerry is awesome, so....:shrug:

[zeemike]

34. Yes it does

It hearkens back to the Weather Underground movement of the 60s
They took there name from the Bob Dylan song "you don;t have to be a weatherman to know which way the wind is blowing"
The underground is dissipative of all resistance movements.

[NoPasaran]

45. The Weather Underground

Where Sixties activism went to die.

[zeemike]

51. Exactly

And maybe here is where we come to die

[OzarkDem]

60. or the French Underground

also called the Resistance, famous for resisting the Nazis during WWII. Quite a heroic group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Resistance

[zeemike]

68. And very effective too

Many an American and british airman owes there life to them

[WilliamPitt]

44. Lots of big talkers around here these days.

I'd be impressed with the strutting fuck-the-Man bravado...if it wasn't coming over a computer from the hand of a person using an anonymous screen name.

Not directed at you per se ("per se" being a nifty lawyer term for "Everything before per se might be total bullshit," sorta like the Southern dagger that is "Bless her heart")...

...Anyway, not aimed at you per se (koff), because 99% of the people here are anonymous, and there have been more than a few hard-talkers stomping through the forum since this topic detonated.

I'm just sayin'. Is all.

Part of the rule of law involves cops. Some cops are great, some terrible, but I don't go for generalizing whole groups of people in any event. I've had cops mess with me, and I've had them be of great assistance. Life isn't binary.

Cheers.

:toast:

[bemildred]

61. I was thinking "FBI plant", but yours works too. nt

[Richard Steele]

66. GMTA. nm

[blm]

46. I side with all the students who were pushed and shoved and live with visions of Virginia Tech

every day while they are on campus.

That MAN was inconsiderate of those students he aggressively pushed through while believing HIS right to speak was superior to theirs.

He also PLANNED and SCRIPTED his response for film footage. The unaware students nervous about campus attacks were not IN on his plan. What if one had a heart condition or a seizure after being gripped with fear - post VT fear that is VERY REAL to those students these days?

The MAN acted badly. The police over-reacted with the taser. The only one who acted appropriately was Kerry and he's the one getting the most crap thrown at him.

[OzarkDem]

55. Equating those two events is an insult

to kids on campus who protest the illegal war they may end up being drafted into.

To say that kids on campus who protest the war, stolen elections and advocate for impeachment are the same as serial killers is beyond belief.

I'm surprised you would say something like that, blm. Really. This kind of thing is happening on a lot of campuses, it just doesn't always make it into the news. Don't let your support of Kerry, who I feel wasn't to blame in this situation, blind you to what is going on.

The last thing Bush wants are campus uprisings across the country protesting his illegal war and administration. Using funding from Homeland Security, he's made sure any dissent is being quashed by cops who violate the rights of students and instill fear on campus.

Students protesting against the war are not murderers and criminals.

[blm]

57. You haven't understood what I'm saying. Those students had a right to THEIR

speech, too. They had a right to attend that event without worrying that they were in the midst of an irrational person who could turn on them.

THEY WEREN'T IN ON MEYER'S GAG.

Their first reaction would be that this guy is nuts because of HIS DELIBERATELY ERRATIC MANNERISMS and those students who DO live with thoughts of what happened at VT could happen on their campus, too, did not deserve some gag performance that resulted in a police action.

It's an insult to the many people who HAVE protested honestly over the many years - and to Kerry - a man whose choice to protest drew the most powerful enemies this nation has produced over the last 35 years. Enemies that have dogged him relentlessly for over three decades because of his work to uncover their corruption in service to the American people.

Try some perspective - we all say tasering is wrong. We all know that Kerry didn't direct any force. We all know now this MAN was putting on an act and used the MASK of a dissenter. We know that many of the students did have fearful reactions. And we all know that Kerry is the one taking the blame and derision that is coming from both sides.

Try seeing your daughter being pushed and shoved aside while a performance artist acted in such an erratic way that one wasn't SURE what his next move would be.

THAT is the reality of what went down. One policeman brought out the taser - that was not necessary - but that doesn't make the rest of what happened OK.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

47. The Name On This Board Implies We Are A Forum For Democrats And Like Minded Progressives.

It does not promote anarchy.

We are willing to side with law enforcement because some of us have critical thinking skills and can view each situation objectively. We are willing to side with law enforcement because society needs laws and laws need to be upheld. We are willing to side with law enforcement because we are rational and sane enough to know that most times cops are just doing their jobs. We are willing to side with law enforcement because we can discern what is right vs what is wrong. We are willing to side with law enforcement because we are willing to side with ANYTHING, so long as it is the right side.

What is disturbing, is that you are of the mindset that regardless of circumstance, people here shouldn't side with law enforcement. Such a premise is quite laughable in nature.

[MonkeyFunk]

53. some of us are fond of the law

and like to see it enforced.

[Gonzo Gardener]

59. Always Question Authority...It Demands Obedience

Distrust of authority is healthy and necessary to preserve a democracy.
It is also important to understand that even in a Democratic Society or on a website called Democratic Underground that the majority rules.

So, SIT DOWN & SHUT UP!!! :sarcasm:

Forget the DU rules (which are quite clear, IMHO) for a second and think people... 'Democratic' is an ideology held as the principles of social equality and respect for all individuals within a community or a process defined as social & political equality for all people.

[tammywammy]

63. Riiiight

:eyes:

[brentspeak]

64. The rules of this boards say this:

"Do not post messages that could be construed as advocating armed revolution or violent overthrow of the government of the United States."

[bobbolink]

67. Any "resistance" at DU, or extra awareness, for that matter, died long ago.

It's a mirage.

Careful where you step.

[H2O Man]

69. silly n/t