John Kerry IS Awesome

[Parche]

That is all

:hi:



:popcorn:

[sandrakae]

1. Damn straight he is!!!!!!!!!

[Parche]

5. Kerry Ripped Mccain On Meet The Press

This last Sunday, he was more intelligent and focused
Kerry rocks!!!

[sandrakae]

8. I saw it and loved every minute of it.

[beachmom]

197. I know. That was great. Hey Parche -- great, great thread. Thanks for this. n/t

[RangerRK]

22. John Kerry LIED on Meet the Press

He stated that Democrats don't have the votes to cut the funding to Iraq.

The Democrats don't need to pass the legislation to give Bush more money in the first place.

He is helping to perpetuate the lie that many Democrats give for their inaction on stopping the war in Iraq.

[karynnj]

26. No he didn't because that is not what he answered

He said that they do not have the votes to match the funding to the mission they proposed. It is true he did not answer Russert's question. He and most Democrats do not think they should simply not have a budget period - the only thing they could do with 41 or more votes.

[RangerRK]

30. They passed an emergency supplemental for the war.

And they will do it again.

He is perpetuating the lie that there is nothing that the Democrats can do.

He also helps perpetuate the lie that we are staying to help the Iraqis, that they are the problem not 'standing up' gimme a freaking break

The Iraqis want US to leave!

[karynnj]

42. How many in the Senate will be willing to not vote for a budget period.

They DO NOT have the votes for that.

They had 52 tying the money to the plan. Not all of that 52 would be willing to say no supplemental at all. The Republicans would then craft a bill that would be mostly them and about 13 or 15 Democrats = 60 votes. So, it truth they do NOT have the votes for it.

[Truth2Tell]

111. So force the ones who won't go with the program

to vote with the Repugs to fund the war.

It is a lie to claim that the Democrats can't end the war. The reality is just what you suggest - that they won't stop the war because they are afraid to do so politically. They just don't want Americans to understand that. They want to have their pie and eat it too. And it's dishonest!

[karynnj]

126. It is not dishonest for those working tirelessly

As Kerry said endlessly in the interview, they are not for "cut and run". What you are suggesting would not even allow money for a regional strike force that can work in conjunction with middle eastern and near eastern countries to go after concentrations of AL Qaeda. That is something people like Feingold want.

[Truth2Tell]

130. Just using the phrase "cut and run"

validates the Rovian talking points.

And what I am suggesting would most certainly end in a capitulation and eventual compromise by the administration. And don't worry, it would certainly allow our armed forces to remain in existence. It's not like the money runs out tomorrow if they don't get 50B ASAP. But thanks Karl.

As for a regional strike force... would that include permanent bases in Iraq? Would it be 60,000 men strong? Would we commit to defend the Kurds? We already have a regional "strike" forces in the Horn of Africa and in other Gulf States, not to mention Afghanistan.

End the occupation and the Congressional double talk now.

[karynnj]

132. All I'm saying is that NOT submitting a bill will be called that

I was explaining why you will not get 41 Democrats to go there.

Kerry said no permanent bases in a 2004 debate with Bush and has been saying it ever after. He was also one ofd the first to say that we need to say no permanent bases to make it clear we want to end an occupation (Oct 2005).

[Truth2Tell]

133. Fair enough... we all know it would be called that

but we can't fear that. The Bushbot name calling has lost its power. We can't fear it. And we can't cover for Dems who do fear it. In all fairness, Kerry is not the worst when it comes to this game. He tows the line a tad, but guys like Biden have been spreading the BS thick and heavy. I just wish Kerry would denounce it and tell America that it's not about vetoes, or sixty seven anything, but about fellow Dems afraid of being labeled soft on tarra by the political opposition. Call them out.

[RangerRK]

143. Only one person controls what bills get submitted- Nancy Pelosi

This is the reason nothing the Dems offered made it to the floor when the Republicans ran the House.

Who cares what the backwash say anymore? We need to stop giving the tiny minority of idiots the power in this country.

[RangerRK]

140. cut and run is the same bullshit excuse that Kerry has been using since 2004

"you can't cut and run Dennis"

The Iraqis want us to leave. WE supposedly are giving them a Democracy. Why won't we listen? They do not need our help to rebuild their country. They do not want our 'help' They still don't even have water or power.

He is participating in defending the lies of the Bush Administration and has been since Bush pushed for war in Iraq.

[populistdriven]

171. they can't actually "end" the war

* has many ways to move funny money around to keep troops there if the Dems passed no more funding. However; it would severely cut numbers of troops.

The political fallout would be very damaging and the result would be a continuation of the war anyways.

If the media would back the Dems this would be much easier and we could insist on major reductions of troops for each funding package.

With the media mostly under the influence of the right wing the Dems would be framed as having lost the war rather then having ended it.

This country is owned and controlled by the elite and their 6 big media outlets.

The US is not a Democratic country except under the loosest definition.

Our votes are only good for the candidates that they allow us to vote for.

[The Wielding Truth]

176. It's the introduction of the bill that can be stopped. Votes are

secondary. It's a ruse to blame the votes. That's how I understand it, from what Dennis Kucinich has been saying.

[sandrakae]

27. You are wrong. I am not going to argue with you, because this is a nice thread.

I want to keep this a nice thread.

[rodeodance]

34. love it--great response

[rodeodance]

35. at the moment Dems do NOT have the votes for De-funding. NO lie, just the truth

[Peace Patriot]

54. Maybe they should have thought of that when they all voted for Diebold/ES&S

"trade secret," proprietary programming code in all of the shiny, new, crapass, and extremely insider hackable voting machines, with virtually no audit/recount controls, no lobbying controls and $3.9 billion into the pockets of these rightwing Bushite corporations.

Give voting for peace a chance!

70% of the American people oppose this war and want it ended. How then did we come up with a Congress that is just the opposite?

Do the math. Something's not right. And when you realize that there is hardly a member of Congress who can prove that he or she was actually elected, you gotta wonder about their tightly zipped lips on "trade secret" vote counting.

[loudsue]

159. Right on ALL counts, Peace Patriot.

If we didn't vote 'em in, we sure as hell can't vote 'em out.

[never_get_over_it]

64. I'm sorry but you are misinformed

and my comment has NOTHING TO DO WITH JOHN KERRY but about Dems NOT having votes to de-fund the occupation.

appropriation bills originate in the House - Nancy Pelosi controls WHAT COMES UP FOR A VOTE - so it only takes Nancy to not bring forward an appropriation bill for additional spending in Iraq and there you go de-funding accomplished - and that is the truth.....

what Nancy needs to do is tell the puke in the White House that she is not bringing any bills forward unless they have certain conditions - and then stick to her guns....

[DUlover2909]

99. Can't they filibuster the bill?

I'd also like to see someone go on Meet the Press and talk about the REAL reasons Bush invaded Iraq and all the deliberate steps that Bush made Bremmer pull in order to put American companies in place to make US tax payer money on reconstruction. Then talk about how they too have failed and that's why Iraqi's want us to go. Talk about who the insurgents are; unemployed former Iraqi soldiers.

[blm]

60. He can count and knows how many Dems will NOT vote to cut funding - HE is FOR cutting funds.

And he's been the one leading on withdrawal and withdrawal timetable in the senate even when many in the party have told him to not pursue withdrawal at all in 2005 and 2006. The Dems have been pulled along kicking and screaming to Kerry's timetable a few months ago and now he and Feingold are pushing to stop the funding.


What you are mad about and distorting is the fact that Kerry honestly said they won't have the votes to cut funding because not enough Dems will vote that.

[RangerRK]

69. They don't need the votes

Nancy doesn't bring forth a bill with money for war = no money for war.

Kerry is perpetuating a lie that many Democrats are participating in. In fact I believe only Kucinich is speaking the truth on this. Stop buying the excuses. We are borrowing money from from China, stealing money from your children's future to pay for this damn war. It is absurd, and the Democrats DO have the power to stop it.

There is another thread on the greatest which talks about the Dems stalling the war money, if they can stall it, they can stop it completely. Even Senator Salazar said that this is what the troops want as well.

[blm]

81. Except those who head the committee WILL NOT stop the funding and WILL bring it

to the floor. It's not a matter of the "Dems' won't stop it - it's which Dems are going to bring it to the floor - and that's usually the committee in charge who calls that shot. A bill WILL get voted out of committee with all GOPs and enough Dems to go to the floor.

But, hey, let's call Kerry a liar for stating a fact while he was pulverizing McCain on Iraq for 35 minutes.

[RangerRK]

90. Nancy doesn't have to allow it to come to the floor

Kerry should tell the truth-

Nancy and Harry can stop the funding by not bringing forth a bill giving Bush the money. Simple.

[blm]

92. Nancy won't - Kerry's being honest - the votes aren't there and

she is siding with bringing the bill.

Kerry is saying HIS SIDE of the Dems don't have the votes to stop it. That's what he means and you deliberately try to turn it into a lie when anyone with half a brain understands he's talking about the MAJORITY of Dems when he says 'Democrats' don't have the votes.

[RangerRK]

101. Kerry should raise the issue of Nancy Pelosi supporting the funding then

Democrats don't need the votes- that is a lie! He is helping Pelosi by not being clear.

Kerry could expose the fact that Pelosi is bringing a bill to the floor for funding, against the will of the American people.

[Truth2Tell]

113. When did Kerry say

HIS SIDE of the Dems don't have the votes? I must have missed that.

Because that is exactly what an honest answer would be, and not what he has ever said.

He talks, like the rest of the leadership and most of the Prez candidates, about vetoes and sixty six votes.

He doesn't mention that many of his fellow Dems lack the political guts to end this war. Never. If he did things might change quite a bit.

[blm]

117. On MTP on Sunday he said Democrats don't have the votes - period.

Kerry's been leading on withdrawal timetable and with Feingold on tying funding up, but he still gets the derision - from asshats attacking him from the RW machine who paints him as a traitor and from the left who REFUSE to hear him because they have never bothered to learn the truth about what Kerry has done for this nation.

[Truth2Tell]

119. Why won't he filibuster

the funding bill?

[blm]

123. We don't know what's going to happen. They're sticking to timetable now so

we'll see what happens next.

But when it comes down to it - Kerry will be advocating for whatever plan will bring troops home sooner.

[Truth2Tell]

self-delete, dupe n/t

[Truth2Tell]

131. whatever plan will bring troops home sooner, AS LONG AS

it doesn't jeopardize the Dem majority by putting key fellow Dems on the spot. You forgot that part.

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Inuca]

96. Disgusting?

What a perfect descrption for the drivel you wrote.

[Riverman]

115. I feel the Love - Thanks!

[Name removed]

109. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. 
[link:www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html|Click
here] to review the message board rules.

[TaraWatchUSA]

114. Yup Kerry is a bonesman...

...and last election, we played "pick the bonesman." Yale should close that organization down, keeping Geronimo's skull and having a crypt prostitute is in the very least immoral and unsavory. But. I must add that while I "picked" Kerry as the most desirable bonesman in the last election, I was saddened by his lame behavior today. He just stood there and watched the situation get out of hand. Even if he couldn't see the situation, Id wager that he heard the young man cry out "your not gonna taser me!"
Anybody know why FL is so Taser happy?

[blm]

121. The guy wasn't at the mic then - and Kerry has some hearing loss since Nam and it's highly unlikely

that he would have heard what was transpiring on the ground away from the mic.

Ever try to hear someone in an auditorium speaking from the back of the room without a mic?

[Democrafty]

139. Actually, he DID say he wanted to answer the question.

It's on the video.

[karynnj]

146. He did - first when he let him ask a question

then when the police were starting to take him away. I guess the police are less impressed with the power of S&B than you and Meyer.

Kerry has done more to fight for people than you will ever do.

[TaraWatchUSA]

172. Why pretend you know me...

...I'm not certain why you are attacking me personally just for stating my opinion. As for my "fight for the people", I've got to say that phraseology sounds far too communist for my likings. On the other hand I will tell you that my grandfather was a union steward, my father was a union steward and I have served as a union steward. I have petitioned, picketed and written congressional testimony and am currently an organizer in my community. How about you?
I'd add that using a public forum to say that I am concerned about this young man's civil liberties being violated is also a form of activism.
Personally, I'd like to see Skull and Bones brought down as they are holding Native American Remains (that Prescott bush dug up) in the crypt is in probable violation of NAGPRA (Native American Graves Protection Act).
Mr. Kerry was my "bonesman of choice". This young man being dragged off when he mentions Skull and Bones gives me pause for thought!
Thanks to everyone for dialoguing!

[Name removed]

98. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. 
[link:www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html|Click
here] to review the message board rules.

[ecstatic]

2. LOL @ popcorn smilie

That is a nice picture of him. It's hard to be pissed at him after seeing that.

[Xipe Totec]

3. K&R!

:dem:

[daninthemoon]

4. OK, but why? What brought this on?

[TayTay]

20. Dup and wrong thread, sigh, long day.

Sigh!

[Stuckinthebush]

6. Yes he is a good man

I was going to write some smart ass comment about all the tazer (taser?) crap but I thought better of it.

John Kerry is a good man and has served his country well over the years. I applaud him.

[Peregrine Took]

88. Just curious, how do you know he's a "good man?" Or are you just hoping he

is. I've never seen any evidence that he is "good."

[Stuckinthebush]

160. Really?

That whole episode in the 70s with him coming back from Vietnam and fighting for the poor and disenfranchised soldiers didn't give you a clue?

Jesus.

[blm]

166. The National Security Archives is filled with evidence of his integrity. But I doubt you've perused

that information that has been carefully collected by patriots to preserve the truth about the last three decades - evidence that has been covered up as often as possible by official entities.

You can't NAME a lawmaker in DC with a better record exposing government corruption and working against closed government that protects the secrecy and privilege of the WH.

[LittleClarkie]

7. Damn skippy

:hi:

[saracat]

9. Yes he is! Thanks JK for everything you do!

[Felinity]

10. Did you hear Randi Rhodes today?

She was way over the top blaming Kerry. I had to turn her off, and I love Randi.

[DURHAM D]

13. Same here - thought she was strange today.

Turned her off.

[bunny planet]

23. I'm still struggling through her show today too.

I ordinarily love her. She is now saying that anyone who trys to defend Senator Kerry in the least, is obviously for tasering. She's going off on anyone who remotely doesn't agree with her. She is now talking over someone else who has watched several video tapes of the incident and is trying to bring another perspective to what happened. And she's bringing in her interview with Kerry about the election irregularities as proof that Kerry wouldn't have answered the question.

[terip64]

31. I have a 21 year old journalism major daughter and I am disappointed with Kerry.

I really am. I have always stuck up for him but he should have stopped the cops.

[politicasista]

36. Out of all the things he has done of late

you want to stop sticking up for him? :shrug:

[terip64]

39. He could have told the cops to back off. It was horrible to watch. I don't know how he didn't. n/t

[politicasista]

41. It was horrible to watch

And more could have been done. That doesn't mean you should give up on him for this alone.

[karynnj]

55. He did not see that part

He did not even think he was still in the room.

Picture a LARGE auditorium. Kerry was up on the stage. They were on the floor between the last and second to the last rows in the room. The stage lights mean that he absolutely could not have seen them down on the floor, past all the people in the audience. Now, consider the volume of Kerry's voice in the video - it is often hard to catch all the words. The distance is of course the same the other way. Kerry had a microphone - even screaming - measured at the source Kerry's amplified voice is much louder. So, what Kerry heard of the kid's yells is weaker than Kerry's voice on the tape. Add in the normal crowd nice and the fact that Kerry has a hearing loss - and I am completely convinced he honestly did not know what was going on.

Next time you are in an auditorium check it out.

[cadmium]

57. When they pulled out the taser they were hunched over

him away from the podium. It is hard to see at all how Kerry could have seen this.

[Inuca]

97. Not to mention that

the stage was lighted, the auditorium much darker. Also the screams that seem so loud, were recorded by people that were a few feet away, he may not have heard almost anything at all. And... and... and... there are so many arguments why he should not have intervened and should have done exactly what he did, namely try to keep the situation under control and as calm as possible.

[terip64]

40. And I still like his politics but I am disappointed in his actions. n/t

[daninthemoon]

71. Yeah, he should have leapt from the stage, hurdled all those seats.

wrestled the taser away... He didn't know it was happening.

[The Count]

74. Not when he had a - working-microphone in his hand. he could control the

situation. From the start.

[daninthemoon]

95. Could be. Once the scuffle ensued however, he couldn't have

known exactly what was going down.

[bunny planet]

38. I agree, I would have wanted Senator Kerry to do more than he did.

He should have shouted from the podium for the cops to stop, loudly.

I do want to believe the report that says JK did not know the kid was tasered until he'd left the building.

[wisteria]

82. He did not know what all was going on and he did say he would answer to students question.

Besides, this was a police matter and Kerry had no place intervening. Interfering with an officer trying to do his duty is an arrest able offense.

[LittleClarkie]

46. It was my understanding that he was trying to tell the cops he wanted to answer the question

but the cops didn't let it continue that long. Have you read his statement? I'll go and find it if you haven't. There's also a fuller video if you've only seen the shorter version. I'll go and find that too.

Otherwise I'm not sure what he could have done. He's not in charge of security.

On edit:

His statement

"In 37 years of public appearances, through wars, protests and highly emotional events, I have never had a dialogue end this way. I believe I could have handled the situation without interruption, but again I do not know what warnings or other exchanges transpired between the young man and the police prior to his barging to the front of the line and their intervention. I asked the police to allow me to answer the question and was in the process of answering him when he was taken into custody. I was not aware that a taser was used until after I left the building. I hope that neither the student nor any of the police were injured. I regret enormously that a good healthy discussion was interrupted."

The full video

http://video.nbc6.net/player/?id=157250

In the interest of putting things in context.

[bunny planet]

63. I've read all this and seen the video, thank you for posting it though.

I blame the cops for overreacting and the taser was excessive absolutely. I wish Kerry had done more but I am willing to see that he couldn't have anticipated what the cops were going to do, did not know what had transpired before the kid was forcibly taken out, and couldn't have done much more besides raise his voice. I think it would have been unwise to leave the stage and interfere himself. Plus, I think Randi just has always had it in for Kerry, and she is allowing her preconceived notions about him to cloud her talk today.

[LittleClarkie]

66. That's what I don't get. She seems to have had a thing for the younger Kerry

even playing his testimony from 1971 at one point. I thought she rather liked him as a fellow service member. I guess I was wrong.

I'm mighty disappointed that she's pulling out Skull and Bones though. I can't help but think that's the kind of thing that's best left up to the Enquirer.

[bunny planet]

70. She always brought that up right after the election. It used to drive me nuts.

[blm]

73. He said he'd answer the question of someone who SHOVED ASIDE OTHER STUDENTS waiting

in line to have THEIR voices heard.

Kerry has NEVER directed security to ever deal forcefully with dissenters. EVER - not even during his presidential campaign.


You are disappointed that Kerry TRIED to stop anything more by giving the disruptor courtesy he really DIDn'T deserve - those students in line deserved it - but Kerry gave it to him anyway, and now Kerry is the bad guy because OUT OF HIS LINE OF VISION, the police drew a taser?

Be disappointed in the one lawmaker with the BEST record in DC of uncovering government corruption and taking all the risks associated, and the one who fought hardest against closed government and its secrecy and privilege, and dissented, encouraged dissent, and protects dissent for over the last 35 years.

I would encourage a monthlong trip to the National Security Archives and teach an aspiring journalist what has really gone on in this country and see for herself that there isn't a lawmaker in DC who has EFFECTED this nation's history more positively the last 35 years than John Kerry has.

[Inuca]

100. Thank you blm

great summary of what Kerry is REALLY all about.

[dickbearton]

79. Stopped the cops...

WTF, Florida is the criminal George and Jeb Bush country.
Kerry lives in a police state like the rest of us. The
criminal Bush and his minions are the only ones to receive a
pass in this police state. This incident is a MSM ploy to
dirty liberals and give wing nuts something to focus on;
rather then the crimes of Bush and the real issues.

[karynnj]

32. She's done that with others - and its too often to be PMS

I heard her speak of the interview and Kerry would have had to be a mind reader to answer the questions the way she wanted. her biggest rant was she asked Kerry if he had second thought (or something) about 2004 and he answered that you have to go forward working on what is important or something like that. Randi ranted (when she had Palast on) that in talking about 2004 he just doesn't get it about voter fraud and referenced that very question as proof. Her interview didn't directly ask him - and he will never be the first main stream person to say it - he has said Gore won - and like Kerry, there is an awkwardness for Gore to be the one to say yes, I won (though I better he and Tipper have said it.)

In some ways, she often sounds like s slightly saner version of this guy - and has the maturity to at least be respectful in person.

Her stand here is idiotic - Kerry could not possibly have anticipated they would taser him. She seems to ignore that he alone seemed ok with him staying - unlike the other kids, the university and the police.

[bunny planet]

43. Yes, I would have respected her opinion that Senator Kerry did not do enough

but she went whole hog in assassinating his character and tying it in with her interview with him, which had nothing to do with it. She has no idea why Senator Kerry doesn't want to talk about the 2004 elections, she just assumes she does. Plus, I've heard her say before that he let the election contest slide because of his Skull and Bones affiliation which is absurd. I love Randi but she was very over the top today. I especially resented her jumping on any callers who disagreed and accusing them of sanctioning what the cops did, even if that was clearly not what they were saying. Some did say that the cops were in their rights, most didn't but the minute she heard anyone defend Kerry she lumped that person in with the people that thought the tasering was ok.

[LittleClarkie]

45. Normally she has facts on her side. But the S and B thing is just conspiracy nonsense

People only think they do things because it's secret.

[cadmium]

56. Randi just lost me --- I have listened to her

for about 5 yrs and when she goes off I usually feel like we need our own blowhards. Now she is just playing spinning this incident in a totally way that does not do a thing to help Democrats get together to fight off Bush/Cheney. She sounds like she likes the sound of her own voice more than she cares about the issues she touts.

[rockymountaindem]

48. Isn't that her normal pattern of behavior? n/t

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

11. Indeed, He Is.

:toast:

[ralbertson]

12. I'm inclined to agree, but...

...then again, my objectivity is probably somewhat suspect in that regard.

:0)

[politicasista]

14. K&R

:kick:

[MH1]

15. Yes, he is.

Anyone who knows his record and what he's about, knows he's a rare public servant and statesman.

For any doubters who keep on bringing up the right wing talking points:

Rule 1: if it is being spread by the right wing, it is almost certainly a lie.

Rule 2: if it isn't technically a lie (perhaps 0.5% of what they spew), important context is left out of the right wing's description of the event; with the complete context, Kerry looks at worst human, and usually pretty damned good.

It's really that simple. And the same rules apply for most of our Democrats as well. I just think Kerry has more public servant in him than politician, and most are the other way around. But the right wing lies are still lies.

/soapbox.

[TwilightZone]

16. Agreed.

Please K&R this post -- http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1837251&mesg_id=1837251

It has more info on the whole incident and makes it pretty clear that Kerry handled it as well as he could have. It deserves at least as much attention as the "Kerry is Evil, Evil, Evil!" threads.

[dailykoff]

17. K'n'R

:patriot:

[tridim]

18. But he's a smelly hippy windsurfer.

[Skip Intro]

19. I'll eleventh that!

[babylonsister]

21. BEST post of the day! nt

[Blue_In_AK]

24. Yes, he is.

STILL my favorite senator.

[wundermaus]

25. No so impressed any more...

Nope, not impressed... sorry to be that fly in your Chardonnay... but isn't it just a little ironic... that a college student get tased for asking Senator Kerry about belonging to a secret society ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_and_Bones ) that Bush also belongs to... and that Kerry vowed to fight a corrupt election only to cave in before the sun rose the next day? Just seems a little too ironic... doesn't it... http://tinyurl.com/3amrvb

[sandrakae]

29. Senator Kerry did not tase anyone. Senator Kerry told the cops, he would answer the question.

The only one to blame here are the COPS.

[wundermaus]

44. Questions were asked

Kerry said he would answer them...

What were the answers?

[cadmium]

58. You couldnt hear them because of all

the commotion. If Meyer had stopped ranting and approaching the stage he would have gotten his questions answered.

[sandrakae]

128. The only part that was shown on the video I saw was the boy. They didn't show the whole event.

I would have no way of knowing what Senator Kerry said, however it was reported taht he did answer the questions.

[SpongeBob]

65. Kerry enabled this to happen...

Kerry, the big "leader," was in a position to tell the cops to back off. And he certainly should have done something as they were torturing this poor person as he was screaming "Don't tazer me." It was utterly shameful on Kerry's part.

[wisteria]

89. Kerry has no authority over the actions of the police. They acted to defend him

and protect the crowd. Besides, he didn't know all the circumstances surrounding the arrest. It is actuallu utterly shameful how people blame the senator for things that are beyond his control.

[SpongeBob]

110. Kerry's being rightly blamed for doing nothing...

Kerry remained silent as these thugs dragged off and tortured this student. Kerry is a U.S. senator, and this was his evening. He should have said something, because obviously neither he nor the crowd needed any "protecting." To keep on answering questions and joke while there's a torture going on is horrible. There are no "circumstances" either that justify torture.

[Inuca]

103. A leader he most certainly is

police chief - not that I know.

[LittleClarkie]

47. That's very interesting. Why don't you call in to Coast to Coast with that

I'm sure they'd be very interested. They love unsubstantiated rumors.

Now really, I'm sorry but, I find it hard to take Skull and Bones paranoia seriously. It's not based on any fact that you can point to except they were in the same club at different times.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

49. no it sounds like some people like to buy into weird conspiracy stories

[mloutre]

28. Oh, you mean this guy?

(That's from the Iraq hearings on 9/4/07, BTW)

[rodeodance]

33. thanks, I needed that after seeing a godziillion dissing posts.

[globalvillage]

37. Yup.

He is.

[pacalo]

50. I adore him & respect him, however...

I would have preferred that he had walked out in protest over just the manhandling of this student. All citizens have the right to ask questions of elected leaders, & this student's questions were definitely legitimate. I would have liked to have heard the answers. Our freedom of speech should include -- above anything else -- the freedom to ask elected officials difficult questions without retaliation; without that freedom, our only recourse is at the voting booth, & even that right is questionable these days.

After seeing the video, I have no way of knowing if Kerry was aware of the tasering. I hope he wasn't aware of it. But even if he were aware of it, this is the first known incident to have happened on Kerry's watch & because of that I don't hold it against him. Kerry hasn't established a pattern of allowing police brutality.

On edit, I just read MessiahRp's post, http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1837251, & Kerry did nothing wrong as far as I'm concerned. There's a huge problem, however, with the police in this country under the Bush administration.

[LittleClarkie]

62. He says he wasn't aware of the tasering.

He released a statement. It's in one of my replies upthread.

[pacalo]

68. Thanks, LittleClarkie!

I just read MessiahRp's post that gave more details & I edited my post above.

:hi:

[TheOtherMaven]

120. And next time?

What is Kerry going to do to prevent another such over-escalated incident in the future? Anything? Or just tut-tut about how awful it was and how it oughtn't to happen?

[Democrafty]

142. Nothing - unless you think he should take a page from

the GOP playbook and make people sign a loyalty oath.

[pacalo]

150. Why get angry about the "next time" at this point?

We'll talk about "next time" when the "next time" happens.

[sandrakae]

129. Senator Kerry said he did not know he was tazed until after he left the building.

I admire and respect this man. If he says he didn't know then he didn't know.

Here is an interesting article on CNN about it. There is mention that this might have been a deliberate stunt. I really don't know though.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/18/student.tasered/index.html

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

51. He is an incredible man who has had an incredible life. I admire/respect him. n/t

[Joe Chi Minh]

52. You forgot to append, "I am Parche, and I approve this - if anything -

understated ecomium."

[rockymountaindem]

53. Yep. He's great.

If I'd been around more today I'd have liked to defend him more. But, I guess I'll have to stick to this thread. Everything else has already been said.

[ElizabethDC]

59. Yep, he is! A great Democrat and a great American! n/t

[progressoid]

61. Nope. His teeth are too white.

:sarcasm:

[Vektor]

67. Now that's the truth.

Awesome, indeed.

[Bluerthanblue]

72. you said it!!- I wholeheartedly agree.

:hi:

[NotGivingUp]

75. Give me a break. What the hell is awesome about John Kerry?...except that he's still able to delude

some people.

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vektor]

134. Some might say broad-brush personal attacks are offensive and disgusting.

You call Kerry supporters on DU offensive and disgusting, and "nasty" yet don't seem to realize how offensive, disgusting, and nasty it is to say something like that about a group of your fellow DUers in the first place.

[Divine Discontent]

77. JOHN IS THE REAL DEAL!

you are a hero for the battles you take up John! I hope you see this thread. Keep saying it like it is, just like on Meet The Press.

[RangerRK]

78. If John Kerry had been present for the Ohio recount- Bush wouldn't be threatening Iran

Please listen to this audio which states that if Kerry had been present for the recount in Ohio the judge would have ruled differently. John Kerry backed down when the country, the WORLD needed him and I blame him for Bush being in office and threatening US today.

listen to this audio if you do not believe me

http://www.archive.org/download/election2004b/ohio-kerry-absent-k42d.mp3

[wisteria]

80. This man just keeps on doing what he knows is the right thing to do.

Sometimes I wonder why he puts up with the sh*t he gets from both sides. A lesser man or woman would have given up the fight by now.
Yes, Senator Kerry is awesome. It is to bad some are to f*cked up to know it.

[onehandle]

83. Another decent Presidency denied by a filthy cheating Bush.

The next President needs to deport the Bush family to Saudi Arabia.

They are a threat to national security.

[Peregrine Took]

84. Ugh! I'd like to somehow retract every doorbell I ever rang for this ....person.

[wisteria]

91. Well, I wish I would have had the time to knock on more doors and would gladly do it all over again.

And, I would be just as proud to support him now.

[Democrafty]

144. Hear, hear! n/t

[Inuca]

85. Absolutely!

Thank you!

[GeorgeGist]

86. With a self-centered power tie like that ...

how could he be otherwise.

PS. Zoom in to see it's splendor.

[Democrafty]

145. His wife designed that for him. n/t

[ProSense]

87. Yeah he is! n/t

[SHRED]

94. Rolling over in '04 and...

...standing by while a kid gets hauled off and tazered.

Yeah...Kerry is "awesome" alright.


Fuck him.

[fedupinBushcountry]

102. OK ,

Please be sure to show video the next time you interfere with a police confrontation. :crazy:

[WildEyedLiberal]

104. Nice to see that this is one of the most rec'd threads on DU

I also noticed that most of the flamebait has been started by a troll who joined two days ago.

Q: Why is the rightwing SO DESPERATE to trash John Kerry even though he's not running for president?

A: BECAUSE THEY FEAR HIM. BECAUSE HE SPEAKS THE TRUTH.

Thanks for the awesome OP Parche and that lovely pic.

[ozone_man]

105. A true gymnast!

Both sides of every issue. Voted for Iraq war and against it. Criticized Dean for antiwar position to show his true leadership skills. He's awesome alright.

[WildEyedLiberal]

106. You are a liar

None of what you wrote is true. Not a word of it. Oh, except "he's awesome, alright."

[ozone_man]

125. He's better than the Clintons.

But he voted for the Iraq War and criticized Dean for being against it.

It wasn't really my intention to dig up the past, but I fell for the bait, and we're still in this Iraq quagmire due to politicians like Kerry, Clinton, Edwards, and many others. Just for the record, both of my senators voted against the Iraq War Resolution and Patriot Act, so it is possible. It takes leadership. Kerry was doing the popular thing at the time, voting for the Iraq War. It takes a leader to risk being unpopular to do do what is right. But this war is apt to drag on for years.

Lieberman, Gephardt, and Kerry criticized Dean for saying that we were no safer with Saddam Hussein captured. Well, are we? I think SH had things in control in Iraq, and now it's a civil war, reverting to a theocracy. This is not my idea of safer.

[WildEyedLiberal]

135. It is a pure 100% lie to say that he was for the war

Or that he criticized ANYONE for being "against the war" - which would be difficult, since KERRY was AGAINST the war.

Do some fucking homework. Have you actually read any of Kerry speeches before the war? "Mr. President, DO NOT RUSH TO WAR" - that's what Kerry said on the eve of the invasion. You are posting dishonest things because you're bitter that Kerry beat Dean. That doesn't give you license to lie.

Dean lied about Kerry in the primaries and called him pro-war. This was a total lie. However, I am not angry at Dean for his vigorous campaign tactics. Not only are you still mad at Kerry, you're still lying about him. Get over the primaries.

[ozone_man]

178. He voted for the IWR.

Whether he was for the war or not, his actions speak louder than his words. 600,000 Iraquis have died so far in this illegal war that was approved of by Congress.

Kerry, Clinton, Edwards, Lieberman, Gephardt all voted for the IWR. Was that naive? Were they fooled by sexed up intelligence reports? I don't think so. It was pure political positioning for the 2004 presidential race. They wanted to do the popular thing.

The point it to learn from the past so we don't have to repeat it again and again. Kerry is not a leader. He's a follower.

[WildEyedLiberal]

180. Dean also said that Bush should have the right to unilaterally take Saddam out if he didn't comply

He, fortunately for all the little Deaniacs, wasn't in the Senate and so didn't have the opportunity to put his money where his mouth is re: "the war vote" - which BTW did not authorize Bush to "go to war" no questions asked. Read it sometime - you seem to be very fond of forming your opinions on issues without actually studying the issue itself very in depth.

If Kerry was "for the war" based on your pathetic criteria then Dean must have been too, since he vocally supported exactly the parameters laid out by the IWR. However, I don't think EITHER Kerry OR Dean were actually in favor of invading Iraq - but then again, that's because I'm capable of critical thinking and not still obsessed with fighting the 2004 primary.

[ozone_man]

190. Both my senators voted against IWR.

Why did John Kerry vote for the IWR? That is not awesome, which is my point. He was in good company though, Joe Lieberman, Dick Gephardt, John Edwards, Hillary Clinton, ....

It takes some courage to make a vote that can seem unpatriotic, yet is the right thing to do, which none of these Democrats had. But they say they were lied to about intelligence. :eyes: No one here at DU thought that there were WMDs or that SH was responsible for 911. They took the politically safe position and voted for the Iraq war. The result is that we are stuck in a quagmire and 600,000 Iraquis have died.

Here is a piece on the criticism of Dean’s positions that I was referring about. Counterpunch is outside the mainstream media, so they don't pull any punches so to speak when talking about Democrats. Are we any safer with SH gone? Dean was right. Kerry was not.

January 7, 2004

Hystrionics About Howard
Dean and His Democratic Detractors

By DAVE LINDORFF

(snip)

Take the recent criticism of Dean's comment concerning Osama Bin Laden. At the nationally televised debate last weekend sponsored by the Des Moines Register newspaper, John Kerry, supposedly one of the more liberal of the Democratic presidential wannabes, tried to make Dean look like a limp-wristed liberal criminal coddler by recalling Dean's recent observation that Bin Laden, if captured, would have the presumption of innocence.

Well, wouldn't he? Or was Kerry suggesting that such legal niceties as a fair trial could be dispensed with in this particular instance in favor of a good old fashioned public lynching?

Dean, who could have given the yahoos in the television audience the red meat some are looking for, instead said simply that as president he would be bound to protect the rule of law, and that while he assumed Bin Laden would be convicted and sentenced to death for his alleged crime of masterminding the attack on the World Trade Center towers, he would also have to be tried in accordance with the law, which includes giving him the presumption of innocence.

That solid defense of the Constitutional right to a fair trial stands at once in stark contrast with the position of the current occupant of the White House, who has locked several American citizens up indefinitely without charges, without trial, and without access to a lawyer or even contact with family members. It stands in equally stark contrast to Kerry and the other candidates, none of whom jumped to Dean's defense.

Dean got the same kind of unprincipled criticism from Kerry and Lieberman a few weeks ago when he made the rather obvious observation that the much ballyhooed capture of Saddam Hussein had done nothing to make the U.S. safer or more secure--a point that was underlined readily by the continued slaughter of U.S. soldiers in Iraq and by the elevation of the Homeland Security Department's risk index, as well as by a series of high-level threats to U.S. bound airliners, necessitating, in some cases, F-16 escorts to some flights and cancellations of others.

http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff01072004.html

Why did the other senator (Kennedy) from Massachusetts vote against the IWR? Here are the senators that voted against it:

Akaka (D-HI), Nay
Bingaman (D-NM), Nay
Boxer (D-CA), Nay
Byrd (D-WV), Nay
Chafee (R-RI), Nay
Conrad (D-ND), Nay
Corzine (D-NJ), Nay
Dayton (D-MN), Nay
Durbin (D-IL), Nay
Feingold (D-WI), Nay
Graham (D-FL), Nay
Inouye (D-HI), Nay
Jeffords (I-VT), Nay
Kennedy (D-MA), Nay
Leahy (D-VT), Nay
Levin (D-MI), Nay
Mikulski (D-MD), Nay
Murray (D-WA), Nay
Reed (D-RI), Nay
Sarbanes (D-MD), Nay
Stabenow (D-MI), Nay
Wellstone (D-MN), Nay
Wyden (D-OR), Nay

Just concede the obvious, that Kerry was being an opportunist like (almost) all the other Democratic candidates and voted for the popular IWR. To not understand that the IWR would end in an illegal war is not to understand U.S. history. We did a similar ting in Vietnam with the Gulf of Tomkin Incident. So, Kerry should have known what was going down. And Hillary Clinton, and the rest. It was a case of political opportunism.

[WildEyedLiberal]

191. Counterpunch hates Dean and Kucinich, too

Nice source. You might as well link to Free Republic.

I have better things to do tonight than rehash the IWR, the single most overrated vote in the history of Congress. If you naively think a no vote would've stopped Bush from going to war, I have a bridge to sell you. Most people thought Saddam had WMDs - including liberals - and some voted for the IWR to pressure him to allow inspectors in. This bullshit hindsight clairvoyant crap - "oh I ALWAYS knew there were no WMDs" is just Monday morning quarterbacking horseshit.

[ozone_man]

193. 23 senators voted against the IWR.

The Democratic wing of the Democratic Party. :)

Face it, Kerry was an opportunist.

Counterpunch is quite a bit different than the Free Republic, being leftwing vs. rightwing. I trust the left more than the right on this issue. Besides, they seem to support Dean in this article, because they saw through the Iraq War issue and what was going on.

"Most people thought Saddam had WMDs - including liberals "

I think if you look back during 2002 and 2003 here, you'll see that most "liberals" here had great doubts of charges of WMDs in Iraq. They saw the war coming. Why not Kerry or Clinton? Anyway, I like him better than Hillary Clinton.

[WildEyedLiberal]

195. It could also be argued that Dean was an opportunist - he was a DLC centrist until 2003

Joe Trippi advised him to run to the left and make the war his big issue - hence the "Democratic wing" comment which he stole from Paul Wellstone.

However, the liberalism obviously stuck since Dean is now one of my favorite Dems and has nothing to do with the DLC anymore. I got over the primaries - and I still believe Kerry that he made the vote in good faith to force Saddam to allow inspectors in. It's very easy to see how Bush abused the authority in hindsight but at the time, it wasn't nearly as black and white as either DU or Free Republic would make it out to be.

[ozone_man]

201. He was a centrist,

but left the DLC around 2000. And he is still is a centrist by Vermont standards, but nationally, he came off as liberal. We have the only socialist senator in the U.S. (Bernie Sanders) and the honorable Patrick Leahy, so it kind of distorts our perspective a bit. Dean is and has always been a social liberal and a fiscal conservative, something that is often misunderstood. He's not a liberal in the big spending liberal sense. He's a liberal in the social sense. I think we're starting to see now what trouble the big spending "liberals" have gotten us into with the national deficit reaching it's cap and the dollar reaching it's low. It takes Democrats as well as Republicans to do that, now that we have the majority. This is a key point. Two faces of the same corporate coin.

How is it though that the other senator from Massachusetts, Kennedy, made the admirable decision to vote against the IWR, and my two senators, Pat Leahy and Jim Jeffords, made that decision. How come Kerry couldn't make the right decision. I think you know the answer as well as I do, and John Kerry does. It was pure presidential politics. But 600,000 Iraquis have died as a result, so it takes on another level of significance, when you acknowledge that reality.

[blm]

192. He didn't criticize Dean for his antiwar position - Dean and Kerry were pretty

close on that resolution as Kerry ended up supporting IWR but preferred Biden-Lugar version the same version supported by Dean in 2002.

The media hyped the IWR as the prowar position completely ignoring Kerry speaking AGAINST invasion because the weapon inspection reports were proving force was not needed.

Media ignored that while they hyped IWR into a vote for war - though IWR was never even a factor in the decision to invade.

[tandot]

107. Thanks for posting, Parche. K & R.

[MetalCanuck]

108. Dennis Kucinich is awesome, Mike Cravel is Awesome but not..

John Kerry, he may have been at one time but not now. He stood
around while someone asking real questions for once got tazed.
So yes moderators I do support progressive candidates...just
not him.

[SHRED]

112. exactly!

[cui bono]

116. Sometimes, sometimes not so much.

Didn't he cowrite and vote for the Patriot Act?

Kerry voted for the law -- parts of which he originally wrote. He singled out its money-laundering sections for particular praise but declared that he was "pleased at the compromise we have reached on the antiterrorism legislation as a whole."

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/02/12/john_kerrys_shifting_stands/

And didn't he just stand there and watch some kid get manhandled and tasered.

He's done a lot of good and he's done some very bad. That does not qualify as awesome in my book. Nobody who voted for, let alone helped write, the Patriot Act could ever be considered awesome.

[WildEyedLiberal]

137. Not ALL of the Patriot Act IS bad

Do you even know about BCCI? The bank that laundered billions of dollars to terrorists? Kerry busted that case wide open; it's no surprise that he would help write a law that cracks down on that kind of shit. I'm in favor of that as well - not all parts of the Patriot Act are the same. Some are worthy, like cracking down on money laundering, and some are invasive and unconstitutional.

Kneejerking is never useful, and that's what you're doing right now. Why don't you examine which parts of the Patriot Act Kerry wrote, read them, and then form your opinion instead of just flipping out and being like "omgwtfbbq THE PATRIOT ACT IT MUST BE EVIL"

[cui bono]

156. My knees haven't jerked in years.

The Patriot Act as a whole shouldn't have been passed, and he did vote for it.

As to the details, I concede that I may not have all the facts. By the same token, the poster called him awesome. I stand by my statement that anyone who voted for the Patriot Act is not awesome. I'll even add far from it since they took an oath to uphold the constitution.

Now can you explain his having voted for such a beyond flawed piece of legislation?

[WildEyedLiberal]

170. I guess Ted Kennedy and Barbara Boxer can't be awesome either then

As they too voted for the Patriot Act.

Is it overall a good bill? Hell no. But rather than say "oh the whole thing's shit, throw it out" I think it would be more reasonable, now that we aren't in the immediate post-9/11 hysteria, to seriously re-evaluate it, piece by piece, keeping the good stuff (money laundering, consolidating CIA + FBI intel) and junking the bad stuff that infringes on Americans' privacy.

[cui bono]

187. Now you're starting to get it.

ANYONE who willingly gives over our constitutional rights when they have SWORN to defend them, and their job is specifically TO defend them cannot be considered awesome. They have failed to do their job and protect the citizens of this country, how can they possibly be considered awesome? They don't inspire awe in me, that's for sure.

As to the rest, you're stating that as if I've made some argument on that point. I never brought it up. I have no problem repealing the Patriot Act and then voting back into law anything that is beneficial, AFTER it has been read and understood by all voting on it and after a healthy debate.

[WildEyedLiberal]

188. I disagree that one poor decision can bar one from awesomeness

I think Kerry, Kennedy, Boxer, and Durbin, just to name a few, are pretty awesome.

However, I respect your points... peace

[cui bono]

189. Well I think the degree and magnitude of that decision warrants bringing

them down from the awesome category. Now if he had decided to wear brown socks with a black suit, well, even a fanatical sock matcher like me could let that slide.

;)

[BlueJac]

118. Loser............and acted that way in Florida

These people will not stand up for the Constitution, like freedom of speech. Unreal

[NewYorkerfromMass]

122. Kerry has more awesomeness

than most here will manage in their lifetimes.

[Inuca]

161. True & LOL n/t

[TankLV]

124. Fehhhh...

Give us a break...

[barb162]

127. Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes!!!!

[jillan]

136. I am SO happy to see this thread!

I have actually been sad that he was getting trashed like that.

Thanks for doing this:toast:

[Fabio]

138. Agreed

[sandnsea]

141. aaawwwwww, thanks parche!!!

I just got back from babysitting a while ago, and found this. well pitty pat, DU isn't completely insane after all.

:loveya:

[Name removed]

147. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[saracat]

149. Go suck on a lemon. Kerry is one of the best and the brightest.I and many others are grateful

to him. And you seem to hate Democrats "our democrats are all a joke." so why do you even bother posting here? Do you, in fact, like any Democrats? You soumd like a serious malcontent. It is very sad that you can't appreciate the great work that Sen.Kerry does but you are entitled to live in your odd, negative, selfish little bubble. I hope you enjoy it!

[peacetheonlyway]

151. Russ Feingold, Barbera Boxer, John Conyers, Henry Waxman, Dennis Kucinich

Joe Biden

Senator Eric Oemig/washington

Cindy Sheehan (soon to be elected in CA)

hold on, I think there's one more..

let me see...

I love Stephanie Tubbs Jones and
sometimes Howard Dean.

that's about it for me.. the rest have handed us over to nuclear armageddon.

you'll see what I mean in a few weeks.

few of our existing democrats truly understand the kind of democratic leadership of say a Jimmy Carter.

those were the good ole days!

[saracat]

152. Cindy Sheehan is NOT a Democrat.And she is running against a seated Dem.

I am surprised by your support of Biden.He did support the Bankruptsy Bill! And you don't mention Ted Kennedy. Good choices .I don't know who Oemig is. Is he a state Senator?

[peacetheonlyway]

153. I'm willing to concede I missed some Dems, I love Ted Kennedy

but loved Robert Kennedy best.

have a picture of the little boy "John John" saluting at his father's funeral to remind me what real democrats were like.

I'll also concede Biden's bankruptcy bill as being 'corporate greed'. you win there.

but he's the most honest / talented compared to obama/hillary.

Senator Eric Oemig has already made history as a NEW / first time state senator from WAshington.

He introduced a state Senate bill to the Washington state (meaning think Olympia, WA)to pass impeachment resolution that if passed would be first time a STate forced House to begin impeachment proceedings.

what's cool about it, is that as a citizen we finally have a voice to force the hand of our federal laying on their butts government.

Vermont and New Mexico tried and failed already.

he told me a few weeks ago he will reintroduce it.

i'm quite sure that this man will reshape history when it succeed.

some say it will get knocked down.

i doubt it.

the people are ready now for impeachment and if the states demand it, the house must being proceedings.

the mere beginning will be the end of bush. winning is not necessary, just like gonzalez the drumbeats got him out of office we didn't have to vote a single thing his direction.

[Tom Joad]

186. be happy. trust the leaders. drink kool-aid. go to the feelies.

My trust is in a movement against war, not rich elitists who enable war crimes.

[dreamnightwind]

154. not a coward

Wow, I couldn't disagree with your post much more. Kerry's a coward? Yeah, and I'm sure you're a true american hero. Gimme a break. Give him a break. You think he didn't want to be president so bad he could taste it? You blame him for Bush and Blackwell's crimes? Now you blame him for the over-reaction of these Florida cops?

I watched the whole video. Kerry was clearly busy speaking to the questions while the kid was being mauled, outta site at the back in the dark. Kerry gave him more respect than he deserved. The kid had great questions, but he was way out of line and didn't respect the process, like he was the only person in the world that mattered. He was aggressive and confrontational, physically, not just verbally. Apparently didn't wait for his turn to speak, either, and should never have been allowed to speak out of turn like that. His body language was scary and confrontational. In the cops' minds, he probably was a potential assailant.

If you want to make a positive difference, you have to learn a certain amount of protocol. Once you've walked through the necessary hoops you can ask as tough of a question as you like. Even then, you can't attempt to monopolize the proceedings the way this kid did, it's not all about you, you're lucky if you get to ask a question in a forum like this at all.

John Kerry is a politician, and as such has made some compromises, as they all have. He's not above criticism. But he's one of our best, not one of our worst. I watched hour after hour of the Kerry-led committee exposing the ugly underbelly of government and quasi-government corruption back in the day. Before that, he went out on a limb like very few others to use his fame to protest what he considered an unjust war. It probably cost him the presidency years later, but I bet he'd do it again. You're calling this man a coward? This is a man of conviction. He may not do exactly what you want him to do, but who are you? Oh that's right, you're just another nobody that wants someone, anyone, to blame for the mess this country's in. I don't blame you for that, but you're pointing the finger at the wrong guy. Blame the kid. Especially blame the cops for over-reacting. Blame the new police state, which will be brought to the forefront when Jeb Bush assumes control of this country 6 or 10 years from now (count on it). But please get off John Kerry's back, he's one of the best we have. We need John Kerry, and he needs us.

[Inuca]

162. Wonderful post & WELCOME n/t

[Democrafty]

169. Welcome to DU, dreamnightwind!

And thanks for your beautiful post!

[WildEyedLiberal]

173. Amazing post, welcome to DU

[JI7]

148. always has been

love the guy and will always support him.

[Apollo11]

155. So what if he only marries millionaires?

I mean - it's just natural selection - right?

What kind of a schmuck dates poor chicks anyway? :eyes:

[Inuca]

163. What a cute (not to mention idiotic) remark n/t

[Kelly Rupert]

174. Apparently stupid is a renewable resource n/t

[Tab]

157. Not for me, he's not

I'm sure he's a nice guy, and patriotic, but his performance in the election was pitiful, in my opinion, and I will never vote for the dude in a primary.

His wife, however, would probably make a damn nice President. She was glossed over before, but she was REALLY impressive. Her, I would vote for.

[Name removed]

158. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WildEyedLiberal]

175. LOL!!!!!!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

"fascist, elitist pig"

This is every bit as certifiable as any post on FR. Well done!

[CT_Progressive]

164. John Kerry is a politician, not a leader.

They are two different things.

[Inuca]

165. He is both n/t

Different things, I agree, but being one does not exclude the other.

[Ian David]

167. John Kerry is significantly above average!

But today, because he could use the extra support, I will temporarily agree to granting him Awesome status.

[sinkingfeeling]

168. Don't you mean 'President Kerry' is awesome?

[DeleteRepublicans]

177. Are You Kidding??

My respect for John Kerry has sunk even lower after the tazing
of a University of Florida student took place on campus at a
John Kerry speech. If this man wasn't such a coward as the
swift boat people said he is he would have put a stop to this
incident before it escalated to the kid being tazed. Remember
Kerry made a promise in his campaign that he would challenge
any voting fraud but he did NOTHING in Ohio. He's a LOSER!!!

[wisteria]

198. Who you? n/t

[debbierlus]

179. You are such an instigator!

[mistertrickster]

181. You know, folks, the "greatest page" is supposed to be for really interesting

timely articles and insights.

Or at least entertaining.

I'm starting to think the IQ around here has been going down lately . . .

[Tom Joad]

185. down the tubes. hero worship of war supporters. it's pathetic.

[jodini]

182. Totally!

Hands down the best as far as I'm concerned.

[cooolandrew]

183. Yes, it's all too easy to put that incident on Kerry. More the police I feel. He did great on MTP.

[Tom Joad]

184. He was pivotal in the successful fight against the Iraq War Resolution in the Senate

Such a leader. Standing against Bush policy ALL THE WAY!
Demanding in his campaign for the Presidency a withdrawal within 6 months of taking office.

or did he?

"I'm not talking about leaving ," said Kerry. "I'm talking about winning!"

Kerry took leadership when it came to the Fallujah... you may remember that immediately following the attack on Blackwater terrorists in Fallujah, Bush ordered an a limited attack (it was during the campaign season). Kerry said:
"What I want to do is change the dynamics on the ground. And you have to do that by beginning to not back off of the Fallujahs and other places, and send the wrong message to the terrorists."

That message was sent after the election of 2004, when bush ordered the destruction of the city. One can't help but think that Kerry helped accomplish that lofty goal for "peace".

His photo is beautiful, it reminds me so much of McCain.

[wisteria]

194. I am kicking this today because it can not be said enough! Kerry is awesome! n/t

[YvonneCa]

196. He sure is awesome...

...Parche. Thanks for the opportunity to say so.

Anyone here wanting to REALLY know what Kerry believes about dissent should go to johnkerry.com and watch his speech entitled, "Dissent". The ONE LEADER in Congress who has done the most in his lifetime to PROMOTE free speech and who actually GETS the power and value to our democracy of free speech is John Kerry. That is, to me, why this whole Florida thing is unconscionable.

[Jed Dilligan]

199. Does it matter? He's not a candidate anymore,

and he doesn't really have the popularity he needs to influence public opinion. Unless I move to Massachusetts, which is highly unlikely, I see no further reason to pay any attention to his career.

[politicasista]

200. kick n/t