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skul_Donteecha Donating Member (70 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 02:25 PM
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The writing may finally be on the wall.
Source: Yahoo News & AP

By CHARLES CRAIN/BAGHDAD
Fri Aug 31, 12:10 PM ET

In his speech Tuesday to the American Legion President Bush proclaimed, "For all those who ask whether the fight in Iraq is worth it, imagine an Iraq where militia groups backed by Iran control large parts of the country." That doesn't take a vivid imagination, however - the reality on the ground is that Iran-backed militias and their political allies already control large parts of the country. And as this week's violence in Karbala demonstrates, those militias are fighting each other for supremacy as U.S. and British influence wanes.
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In what one senior American military official called a "schizophrenic" policy, Iran offers support both to the Mahdi Army and to SIIC, even as they fight each other. The Iranian strategy of playing both sides may not be tenable in the long-term, but for now it gives Iran influence in southern Iraq that must be the envy of both the Americans and Iraqi politicians in Baghdad.

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So, if this is really the case, is this not a great signal for us to get the hell out of there. Most Americans dont want to be there any more and the Iraqis dont want us there...so, whats the problem?
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Joe Bacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 02:43 PM
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1. so when is George P Bush gonna fight for his uncle?
If this war is soooooooooooo goooooooooooood, when is George P gonna go to Iraq?
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 03:37 PM
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2. Dems don't accuse enough
even if to force the other side to offer a better explanation. Maybe the whole dysfunctional plan was always based on some version of what is happening now. Despite Little George's ignorance of the sectarian splits, in the big picture the neocon types and CIA methods are very used to the old school method of exploitation of conflict.

Pick on the already armed Sunnis, whose army melted back into the population, was allowed to raid an enormous explosive depot, was kept from gainful re-employment as the security forces(same thing was forced on the local oil worker unions)but was weak sistered back into the new puppet government. Of course this will cause massive American casualties and draw largely Sunni Al Qaeda in for the shooting gallery. Whatever the purpose of drawing Al Qaeda in "to be killed" the first objective would be to justify and demonize the Sunni resistance fighter lest they gain instant credibility as a natural freedom fighter force. Cap it with a brutal Shiite dramatized Saddam execution.

At the same time divide and conquer the Sunnis who during this slaughter and sacrificial loss of American troops(not for Iraq or America but the brutal plan) and try to stifle Al Sadr with a repressive large scale assault. There is little win/win in actual war. Thinking that no matter what, if the Sunnis rallied to Al Sadr while they were weak- or- if they kept cooperating despite their own getting hammered Americans could exploit this into the war against Iran. Judging by the nearly hysterical impatience of Israel the quick move against Iran was stymied long ago- again by the Iraqis not cooperating with the big plan and the inevitability of such a provoked civil war.

But war is a stubborn beast and it is the instigators who ALWAYS soldier on bravely behind the lines, doing what might have looked brilliant on paper or misinterpretations of past experience and "supremacy", the main key being that in such a war commitment matches the delusion created by never being classically defeated or D.C captured. Macbeth wading through "seas incarnadine" after the point of no return, the hubris of the false prophecies sustaining him to the very last.

The big switch is being planned simply because of the success in getting it by the American people without the government being forced out- which America has few tools in its structure to accomplish except impeachment which is grossly taboo for forces more interested in law and the nation than politics. Sunni terrorists, which are convenient U.S. tools even as they successfully kill and grow are encouraged in Iran as if it were Afghanistan all over. I guess for the WH arming Bin Laden was a big long term plus. This is more of the same. Oil poor Syria, which they probably always promised to Israel, means nothing to our plan. Crush the next big oil superpower and then the Sunni Saudis, responsible for arming their factions in Iraq and causing most of the US deaths(besides also providing and arming Al Qaeda) are the core of the oil cartel. The Saudis for all their money are politically weak and dependent on US power, moreso than Israel which finds itself in a similar dilemma in collusion with a ruthless American empire. The disaster worldwide will affect many other nations and rivals in a way that the Americans(so heavily invested so far) are again meant to manipulate for more bullying advantage. They bull ahead because none of those groups have stopped this by biting the bullet.

Everyone is playing games, the stuff of world war. Everyone will lose if America screws up the oil world while failing. That is why the League of Nations and the United Nations were slapped together, like a weaker in denial version of AA, more like the headier prouder Temperance League, because of the general alarming failure of war and the modern impossibility of sustainable, peaceful empires(or the illusion rather). The threat to existence itself has not yet gotten through the thick skulls of our typically mediocre modern statesmen.

But to get back to the point, the dissenters at home CAN accuse(citing back to the Pentagon papers and past performance if they wish) this government of deliberately getting US soldiers killed as sacrificial pawns in gaming ethnic warfare, allowing and encouraging them to be killed as moves to starting new wars in the big plan. The second point is increasingly clear- as it was early on- that the government army is being degraded as a democratic force in every sense of the word, to be replaced by Blackwater type mercs for citizen control(our SS) who do no actual battle duty. The officer core, never richly educated, is being infiltrated by select Christian fanatics- future coup leaders that prescott Bush could never find- also incompetent in actual warfare. The army is meant to be professional and maybe a selective draft to drag the young out of economic ghettos and made into Tienanmen Square alienated troops hopefully out of sympathetic sync with civilian America and its people. Real war is meant to be done by surrogates being the ground troop suckers and real control resulting from high tech push button super weapons(Hitler's desperate dream) and their MADD interplay among the other nations. Proliferation of WMD's and terrorists is as key in world empire as in devastating our populations here in America.

This is what they are doing, plans or no, documentation and revelations of intent aside. The trajectory of effects and behavior are clear as is the misery and devastation to the entire planet whether these smart guys "win" or not. You don't have to be frustrated by lack of a confession. The guns are all smoking and the MSM is distributing the pot. This government must fall- as in parliamentarian models is at least possible. The real problem for Dems is that core elements of American policy are contained in this brutal incarnation. It must ALL be repudiated. The killing must stop. Cooperative models BETTER than Clinton's must be established. And if this is not contradictory, the evils and the messes left in its wake that would ruin peace must be the things worked at- harder than we did any military option in the past. A Marshall Plan for world peace and human survival- and dare we say... progress?
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