Young Jewish woman attacked near Paris

[oberliner]

PARIS (EJP)---A 23-year-old Jewish woman was attacked Thursday afternoon in Noisy-le-Grand, near Paris, by two youths who beat her and shouted anti-Semitic words, the French National Bureau of Vigilance Against Anti-Semitism, said.

“I thought I was going to die because nobody came to help me,” the woman, only identified as Rebecca, said.

While phoning in front of her house, she was attacked by two youths of “African origin” whose head was covered by a hooded cape and their face hidden by a scarf.

They shouted “You dirty Jew” at the woman before stealing her mobile phone and beating her violently at the head and the body.

She suffered several bruises in the face and the rest of the body.

According to Rebecca, the two aggressors recognized her Jewish origin when they saw a Star of David pendant on her neck.

http://www.ejpress.org/article/news/france/19167

[villager]

1. What brave religious warriors...

n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. This has been going up in France in particular

and across all of Europe over the last six years

And also in this country

We have a rise in antisemtism and an acceptance that is troubling

And I expect this thread to go to the dungeon soon

[Hardrada]

8. The old multicultural liberals are dying out

and everyone else puts their own religion and/or ideology ( Atheist Marxism or Christian fascism or Zionism)in front of all else. And one thing leads to another it seems.

[JonathanInTelAviv]

13. You are confused

Zionism is a response to the problem of anti-Semitism.
The State of Israel was approved by the UN for the express purpose of providing a safe homeland for Jews.

[Hardrada]

16. Zionism does, upon examination, appear to be ideological.

But perhaps the confusion lies in that there were various advocates and not all were on the same page, i.e, the exact nature and structure of the state to be situated in Palestine or even if it would be situated there at all.

[MLFerrell]

27. Yes, and the UN also defined borders for Israel that Israel has refused to recognize or abide by.

That aside, this attack is reprehensible, and undeniably anti-Semitic.

Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Warren DeMontague]

40. Yes, and Israel's neighbors have been waging various wars to exterminate it since it's inception.

"That aside", this attack is reprehensible, and undeniably anti-Semitic.

cough.

[EFerrari]

63. Except for that 10 year ceasefire that Hamas offered that we

never hear about here. It's funny how Israel's genocide against Palestinians gets a pass and how their attempts to reach a solution just don't get much press.

[Warren DeMontague]

65. If I remember correctly, Bill Clinton got both sides pretty close to a solution in 2000

Bill Clinton being an eminently capable leader, of course.

I seem to remember that got a LOT of press. I also remember that Yasser Arafat torpedoed the deal at the last minute. (Yes, he did.) There are Palestinians AND Israelis who want to reach a reasonable solution. Unforunately, Hamas aren't part of that. (Neither, for that matter, is the Israeli far right)

But "You Jews should fuck off and die, or at least leave" is not a 'reasonable attempt to reach a solution', sorry. The "10 Year Ceasefire" is contingent upon Israel moving back to pre-1967 borders. Then they get 10 years (according to Hamas) of a "cease fire" at which point Hamas reserves the right to resume warfare for Israel proper. If you're one of the people who thinks the mere existence of Israel as a state is illegitimate, such a thing might sound like an "attempt to reach a solution", but you'll excuse the Israelis if they see it for what it is and don't leap at the chance to gladly acquiesce to the complete negation of their country's existence.

I won't even get too deep into the "Palestinian Genocide" comments, because if I was really interested in having this fight over and over I would hang out in the I/P area. I don't agree with the treatment that the Palestinians have received, I agree with large numbers of Israelis that the occupation after '67 was a mistake and needs to end- however, I think it's more than a stretch to call what has gone on in the Territories "Genocide". Rawanda was Genocide. Cambodia was Genocide. The Holocaust was genocide. To call the oppression of Palestinians (and I certainly won't deny it has been that) "Genocide" is hyperbole, pure and simple. That is de facto ridiculous.

[EFerrari]

66. Okay, let's not do this. A factoid I learned the other day:

The number of civilians we've killed in Iraq is roughly equal to the number of people murdered in Rwanda. We are going to have to redefine hyperpole soon.

I don't know how many Palestinians have died. I look up the numbers but can't hold them because it's all so needless.

I was very encouraged to see, during the war on Lebanon, that the Israeli Peace Movement mobilized. That's another thing we hear zilch about here in the States.

/typo

[Warren DeMontague]

67. No doubt. There are a lot of pro-peace Israelis. Most Israelis think the Settlers are nuts.

Most Israelis would like to come to a reasonable peace with their neighbors. I believe a very large number, if not most, Palestinians feel that way, too. The ones on both sides who are actively involved in making a better life for themselves see the many benefits and opportunities of working together. They have friends and business partners on the other side. If anything, I think the Israeli people are far more realistic about the Middle East than many pro-war Americans, because they know that when all is said and done, they have to LIVE there. They have no illusions about waging a great crusade to rid the world of "evildoers". At least, that's been my experience.

As for what has gone down in Iraq over the past 15 years, you'll get no argument from me, there.

[EFerrari]

68. Another factoid I heard from Pilger on Amy's show: there was

a study done among a group of US high school kids and 90% of them believed the settlers being evicted were Palestinians. So sad, all around.

[sabbat hunter]

56. the UN defined borders

are those that are "Safe and defensible" for israel. as per 242. Israel has returned territory it captured to Egypt, made peace with Jordan.

Syria doesn't even recognize israel's right to exist, used the golan heights to fire down onto israel in the past. An Israeli presence in the golan heights, meets the definition of safe and defensible borders.

Additionally with the west bank and gazaz final borders need to be negotiated. the 1948 armistice line is just that a line where the fighting stopped. They were never meant to be final borders.

The final borders should probably be along the approximate green line, with Israel controlling at least part of the highlands for their defensible borders.
Finally Jerusalem was supposed to be an international city, but the UN in effect abandoned that protection by not having troops in there to defend it in the war of independence against jordan taking it over.

Jerusalem was NEVER meant to be the capital of a Palestinian state.

[krispos42]

39. Most of Europe has been "judenfrie" for a long time

The Nazis left their marks on Europe. We may have liberated most of it, but the 6 million+ Jews slaughtered didn't magically come back when Hitler offed himself in that bunker.

Now I presume that after several generations, Jewish families are starting to become prominant again and the Europeans, the memories of World War Two fading every day, are starting the anti-Sematism up again.

Very sad indeed.

[Warren DeMontague]

45. And what the fuck is "atheist marxism"? I know a lot of atheists, very few of them are marxists.

Most of them are, like myself, left-libertarian, "multicultural liberals" in that they respect the right of people to make up their own damn minds about the world but expect the same courtesy in return. If demanding that public schools teach scientific fact, and not creationist blather, in Science classes constitutes ideological "intolerance", then I suppose many of us could be considered intolerant.

[KillCapitalism]

11. It certainly is, I have family that can vouch for that.

They just traveled to France last year, but vow not to return b/c of the Antisemitism.

They stated they felt as if they were in late 1930's Germany.

[qdemn7]

17. Truthfully...

I wonder if Anti-Semitism in France ever really went away, or it just went underground. Just like in the US.

[smirkymonkey]

50. Isn't their new President, Nicholas Sarkozy, partially Jewish?

I believe that his family converted to Catholicism, but you would think that is a sign that there is more acceptance of Jews in French society.

[LeftishBrit]

55. Yes, it's a complex situation

There's always been significant anti-semitism (a very early example was the Dreyfus affair); and yet there have been a number of prominent Jewish political leaders, including the very courageous Leon Blum long ago and more recently the socialist Laurent Fabius; Simone Veil, who introduced some excellent aspects of the social services and was largely responsible for the legalization of abortion; and a number of others.

The existence of prominent leaders from an ethnic minority is an excellent thing, and a positive step, but does not abolish prejudice. Britain had an ethnically Jewish, though religiously Christian, Prime Minister in *Victorian* times - Benjamin Disraeli; but there was still considerable antisemitism at that time and since.

[The Backlash Cometh]

19. Do you think it's a backlash to the neo-con Middle East meddling?

Not that the rest of the world would realize it was coming from them?

[LeftishBrit]

31. No. LePen was getting a worryingly high percentage of the vote in the 1970s

And earlier, just two words: "Vichy Regime".

Not that one should single France out. Britain's attitude to ethnic minorities hasn't generally been that stellar either.

A sad and long-standing problem!

BTW, neo-cons are not necessarily Jewish, if that's what you're implying; in fact, the most powerful ones have not been: e.g. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Ashcroft, Gonzalez....and Blair.

[The Backlash Cometh]

32. The last seven years has been a disaster because of the merging interests

between the oil people and the neo-cons. Oil people have an unholy allegiance to Saudi Arabia, which wanted more interests in the middle east. And the neo-cons have a very pro-Israeli policy. They would happily stand by and support any policy that weakens the Arabs in the middle east. Those two, coming together became poison for the rest of us.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

35. I have met a Tunisian Jewish woman who lives in France. Several years

ago she was a victim of the bombing of a Kosher restaurant in Paris. She lost much of her hearing from it and also received psychological damage.

[jillan]

3. Anti-semitism is definitely on the rise

:cry:
How can one person hate another person just because of their religion?

[pansypoo53219]

5. why don't we ask the irish that?

i swear. if it isn't one thing, it's another. i just say humans suck. some sucvk less. some suck a lot. some suck a WHOLE lot.

[Hardrada]

7. Ask the Hindus and Muslims in Kashmir.

Or the Tamil Tigers.

[LeftishBrit]

30. Tom Lehrer said it all in his satirical 1960s song, "National Brotherhood Week"

'Oh the Protestants hate the Catholics
And the Catholics hate the Protestants
And the Hindus hate the Muslims
And everybody hates the Jews,
But during National Brotherhood Week...

It's (brotherhood) only for a week, so have no fear!
Be grateful that it doesn't last all year!'


When will we ever learn???!!!!!

[rockymountaindem]

4. This is so wierd

A friend of mine who recently moved back after living intermittantly in Paris for a few years mentioned she had known someone who lived in the Jewish quarter. I was going to make a remark about the rising anti-Semitism there, but I decided I'd rather enjoy my evening with her rather than talk about a depressing and angering subject. Now this happens. Odd, and disgraceful. At least she only suffered bruises, unlike that man who was stabbed to death recently.

[JonathanInTelAviv]

12. How these things get out of control...

If enough people in France are like you, it's only a matter of time.

"I'd rather enjoy my evening with her rather than talk about a depressing and angering subject."
"At least she only suffered bruises, unlike that man who was stabbed to death recently."

[rockymountaindem]

34. What am I going to do about it in Colorado, eh?

Telling one person about it, who probably already knows from having lived in Paris, isn't going to stop this from happening. It's just gonna piss me off talking about it.

[aquart]

6. Which is why my mother never let me wear one.

[shance]

9. If the youths were hooded , how can they claim to know they were of African origin

even if they weren't hooded, that's a bit presumptuous.

[Madspirit]

10. Hi shance

Maybe she saw their hands. You kind of have to describe everything about someone who attacks you if you expect the police to look for them. That's not the same as profiling them. It's just the physical description.
Lee

[shance]

14. Hey MS*** I considered that, but the shade of someones hands cannot accurately identify

anyone and in this case, if someone is from Africa or not.

Simply because I have light skin doesnt mean I'm American.

I could be from a wealth of other nations.

In reality, you can't really accurately identify someone who has not been physically apprehended/identified prior and finger printed.

Thats an important factor otherwise many people could be wrongly accused for something they didn't commit.

[Sanctified]

15. Yep I could never identify someone by the shades of their hands.

Just look at these guys.

[iverglas]

23. what does "African-American" mean?

I think it means "American of African origin". Really, one should not question what someone said when one is reading his/her words in translation, not to mention from an entirely different sociocultural perspective and a geographic location far removed from the event being discussed, and with no knowledge of the social and cultural situation in the place where that event happened.

Immigration from sub-Saharan Africa, i.e. black Africans, is a more recent phenomenon in France than immigration from, say, North Africa. If you google "d'origine africaine" france and read French, you can bone up on the present situation. African immigrants in France tend to be Muslim. "D'origine africaine" could in fact also refer to North African, i.e. Arab, origin.

It is unlikely that someone living in France, when seeing someone else and hearing how s/he speaks French, would be characterizing the other person inaccurately by saying s/he was "d'origine africaine", unless s/he were simply lying.

By the way, "colour" is historically a far less significant factor in French society than in North America. Class cuts across other cleavages in French society far more than in the US and other anglo societies, for example. Disadvantage/discrimination based on race/colour was simply not the same in France as it was/is in the U.S.

I'm somewhat curious about the sequence of events in this case. Did the assailants decide to rob her and then see that she was Jewish? Or did they decide to attack her because she was Jewish?


For the skeptic among us, using news.google.fr, we find:

http://www.resiliencetv.fr/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=551

Agression antisémite à Noisy-le-Grand

Publié par L'Observatoire International des Libertés le 10/8/2007 (168 lus)

Lu sur le site du Crif : Richard Prasquier, président du CRIF et Sammy Ghozlan, président du CCJ et délégué du CRIF de la Seine-Saint-Denis, sont venus réconforter, jeudi 9 août, une jeune femme victime d'une agression antisémite à Noisy-le-Grand. En plein après-midi, deux jeunes gens l'ont frappée "dans l'indifférence totale", au centre de la ville.

"Je pensais que j'allais mourir, mais personne n'est venu à mon aide". Les deux individus ont d'abord traité la jeune femme de "sale juive", avant de lui voler son téléphone portable de son sac et de la frapper violemment. Son père a poursuivi les agresseurs. L'un d'entre eux a été arrêté, mis en garde à vue et a été relâché le lendemain.

"Je ne veux plus rester ici !" a confié la jeune femme traumatisée à Richard Prasquier et Sammy Ghozlan.

Le président du CRIF dénonce la banalisation de ce type d'actes antisémites. Il entend écrire au ministre de l'Intérieur pour lui demander le renforcement de l'action policière et une meilleure prise en compte, par ses services, des personnes victimes de violences antisémites.

The English article quoted in the OP is essentially a translation of this, which itself appears to be a press release from a newly created NGO, Observatoire International des Libertés.

http://www.resiliencetv.fr/modules/pages/index.php?pagenum=6

[bettyellen]

18. their voices ? i can certainly tell the difference between a New Yorker,

someone from the Caribbean and someone from Africa quite easily.
Not really hard for me to do. :shrug:

[Schema Thing]

20. I'd need some conformation

something about this just has that *propaganda* sound to me.

If this happened in America, I'd be able to find it in the national press. Perhaps someone who can do searches in French language could find this "French National Bureau of Vigilance Against Anti-Semitism" and confirm this, or find the story in a French newspaper?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

21. Hey. Genius.

Try teh googel.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/893343.html

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

24. How about a translation from France's antisemitism office?

The one referenced in the article?

(Translated via babelfish)

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=fr_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.sosantisemitisme.org%2fcommunique.asp%3fID%3d89


Still think it's dirty Joo propoganda?

[iverglas]

25. and that answered my question

once I read the original, anyhow. ;)

L’un deux s’approche d’elle lui dit « TOI LA SALE JUIVE » puis lui serre le cou,met sa main sur sa bouche pour l’empêcher de crier,et avec son complice lui assènent des coups de poing sur la tête, la mettent à terre,lui donnent des coups de pied sur le corps, et s’enfuient à vélo après lui avoir dérobé sa sac à main de marque.

One of the two approached her and said "you dirty Jew" and then grabbed her by the neck, put his hand over her mouth to stop her from crying out, ...

Although, the question really does still remain. Were they opportunistically robbing someone in a violent manner, not an uncommon occurrence anywhere, and decided to throw hatred into the mix, or was their attack motivated by hatred -- or did they attack more violently than they would otherwise have done, because of the hatred? Not all attacks on members of vulnerable minorities are hate crimes, but some very certainly are. It will just depend on the facts of the case itself.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[porphyrian]

28. Paris has crime?

I'm glad she's going to be OK, and I hope that they catch those responsible. Is this the French version of our missing blond girl stories?

[Swede]

33. No it's their version racial hatred during a violent attack.

But,you already knew that.

[porphyrian]

37. Jewish is a race? I thought that had already been disproven.

But, you already knew that.

[rockymountaindem]

38. It doesn't matter if it's true or not, it matters if people believe it

and use it as an excuse to perpetrate violence against those whom they dislike. Even so, "bigoted attack" is pretty much the same thing as a "racist attack".

[porphyrian]

42. Not when the Holocaust was perpetrated due to the belief that being Jewish was genetic.

I'd say this is exactly where the difference between "racist" and "bigoted" needs to be made. And I'm not sure what you mean by "It doesn't matter if it's true or not, it matters if people believe it and use it as an excuse to perpetrate violence against those whom they dislike" in this context. Are you saying the person who posted this story here is trying to incite violence? I do wonder why such a post might find its way to GD - maybe we aren't fighting amongst ourselves enough today. Or are you suggesting Jews will use the story to be violent towards people of African descent? Or vice versa?

[rockymountaindem]

44. I was responding to your inference that since Jews are not a race

this was just some kind of random attack, or as you put it, the French version of the missing blonde (which implies that it's not an unusual crime, just one selected for media coverage due to sensationalism). It's not a random attack, wheter Jews are a seperate race or not. It's an attack against Jews because the perpetrators *believe* Jews are a seperate race, or at least an identifiable group worth their wrath. So, whether Jews are a seperate non-white race or not, it doesn't matter in this case. This person was attacked for being a Jew, and with the history of anti-Semitism in France and the rest of Europe, I think it deserves attention.

[porphyrian]

47. You don't know what the attackers believe any more than I do, and that's a fact.

You assume it was a hate crime simply because they used bigoted slurs. If a crime is committed against a woman wearing a UF Gators jersey, and the attacker calls her a "fucking Gator whore," that doesn't automatically mean the attacker hates the Gators - it's simply a form of intimidation to make the victim comply through fear. And I'm not excusing the crime at all, I'm simply questioning why this specific case is news today. Are we trying to start another DU rift? Does anyone here really think that this crime was OK, or that it's OK to attack Jews for being Jewish? Or is this just another wedge issue to keep us at each others' throats?

[oberliner]

51. "Just another wedge issue to keep us at each other's throats" ?

Drawing attention to incidents of bigotry in general and anti-semitism in particular is not to my mind a "wedge issue".

Posting that we should "avoid Hillary Clinton like the plague" (as you did earlier today) seems more likely to start another "DU rift" than does posting about this incident in France.

[porphyrian]

52. Ha! Well, you're entitled to your opinion. - n/t

[rockymountaindem]

53. And I wholeheartedly agree with what he said n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

41. I'm sure this sort of thing is "over-reported" ... just like Gay Bashing is.

:eyes: :sarcasm:

[porphyrian]

43. I didn't say it was "over-reported," you did.

I just don't get the point of it. I'm sure it isn't the first young woman, Jewish or not, who has been mobbed in Paris, and I don't get what our reaction to it should be beyond my initial one. That isn't my dictating to you or anyone else how to react to it, nor is it my saying it shouldn't be posted. Is DU now going to work for French political parties and policies as well?

[Warren DeMontague]

46. Hah?

Did you not get the point of the coverage of the attack on Matthew Shepard? I'm sure he wasn't the first young man in Wyoming to get murdered by a couple goons.

[porphyrian]

48. What awareness is being raised by this article?

That Jews are persecuted for being Jewish? Please. That this persecution is wrong? No, we got that. That people "of African descent" in France attack Jews? That young women are attacked in cities? That attackers often verbally abuse their victims in the most terrifying and personal way?

Come on. It's not news, and posting it here changes nothing.

[rockymountaindem]

54. Why isn't anti-Semitism news?

France is dealing with a general rise in xenophobia and this is part of it. Immigrants feel marginalized, that whack-job Le Pen still has plenty of supporters (from what we hear) and yes, people are sometimes attacking Jews. If nothing else posting these stories increases our awareness of what's happening in the rest of the world. More importantly, it draws attention to the fact that anti-Semitism, which has been rather dormant in Europe for the past two generations is re-emerging. I think people should be aware of that and I also think it's worth discussing in a "General Discussion" forum. Is there some reason we shouldn't be talking about it?

[porphyrian]

57. I didn't say anti-Semitism wasn't news, I said this story isn't.

This woman wasn't singled out for violence because she was Jewish, she was called a name because, in the act of victimizing her, they noticed she wore a Star of David necklace. I don't doubt that if she had worn a cross, they would've called her a Christian whatever-they-said. That's how you terrorize a victim, by making it personal. That doesn't mean they were bigoted. It doesn't mean they weren't, either. Merely making a bigoted statement doesn't prove anti-Semitism. Without more information, we cannot say.

Have I, through my responses, kept this topic kicked enough for you now? I'm quite sure you don't care what I think about it, and I'm getting bored repeating myself.

[rockymountaindem]

60. Keeping this kicked has nothing to do with it

I'd be happy to continue this through PMs if you wish. That said, I think that if you're beating someone up and calling them a "dirty Jew", I'm pretty sure that means anti-Semitism figured into the attack. That's the assumption I'm going to make. You can make a different one, obviously, but I think the burden of proof is on those who want to deny this incident's anti-Semitic nature. If this was just a robbery, why "terrorize" the victim? Why not, being two men against one unsuspecting woman, not just rip the phone out of her hand and run away? Why not just beat her up? Why not call her a "dirty whore" if you feel like something must be said? They could have done any of those things, but they decided to focus on her religion/ethnicity. That's why, like other hate crimes, this belongs in the news.

[porphyrian]

61. There's no point. I don't need to change your mind, and you won't change mine.

However, I won't make any assumptions about a case I have so little data about, and I hope no one who serves on a jury would either.

[oberliner]

69. You seriously believe that if she was wearing a cross rather than a Jewish star

That they would've called her a "dirty Christian" rather then a "dirty Jew"?

[LeftishBrit]

29. Unfortunately France has a long tradition of xenophobia, including antisemitism

As do many Europaean countries. (And many non-Europaean countries if it comes to that.)

Unfortunately, people from one ethnic minority group sometimes turn on another, when they should all be uniting against the real enemy of bigotry.

[rockymountaindem]

36. I was reading in a book on the Spanish Civil War

The author said that there was a problem in the International Brigades because the French units were so anti-Semitic that units from Poland, Hungary and Germany, which had many Jewish memebers, had trouble operating with them.

[BlooInBloo]

49. (snicker) Wonder where all of the Duke-lacrosse defenders are now?

:rofl:

[Balbus]

59. Right here - and there's no proof that it was the Duke lacrosse players who beat this woman!

[Balbus]

58. wrong place - I'm an idiot.

[applegrove]

62. I hope they are turned in. You have to wonder how African muslims

can learn hate so quick.

[TahitiNut]

64. "Young"?? Horrors. Radical ageism again!

:dunce: