GRAPHIC: Look at what the police did to a protester's leg at a labor protest

[burythehatchet]

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Protester_suffers_dislocated_knee_after_clash_0813.html">Protester suffers dislocated knee after clash with police in Rhode Island

[helderheid]

1. JESUS!!!

[burythehatchet]

3. looks like one of the cops is spraying mace on someone trying to take a photo

absolutely disgusting!

[glitch]

13. Such a brave, honorable, manly man, protecting the peace. Love his shades.

:puke:

[wordpix]

69. maybe that fattie cop jumped on her knee ---poor girl! I would sue the bastards

[spanone]

OUCH, i just had knee surgery and that hurts to look at....

[derby378]

2. Ouch!

I hope for the officers' sake that this was not deliberate - looks like that one cop is threatening pepper spray for a shutterbug, though.

[AX10]

4. Shooting police in self defense is justified.

It is so in this case. Cowards!

:puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry::puke: :mad: :cry:

[burythehatchet]

7. I hear you loud and clear.

very, very sad when a person's free speech is met with such brutality.

[file83]

81. If that were my wife and I were armed...

let's just say that would be a defining moment in the lives of those cops, and me. No telling what the outcome would be, but I assure you, it would get one hell of a lot uglier than what they did to her.

[Name removed]

86. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zodiak]

5. And spraying a can of mace at a person taking a picture

Dislocate a woman's leg and spray chemicals at everyone else.
And these protesters are threatening why?

Personally, I believe one day we will see scenes play out like they did in "V" when that "secret police" guy shot that little girl. There is only so much brutality that a population can absorb before the blue shield becomes the mark of the enemy. That time is coming sooner than we think.

And over the last few years, the cops have become more and more brutal and less and less professional. This board is rife with their authoritarian exploits and extralegal killings.

[EVDebs]

109. Those pics may show his badge number and nametag....

She may have to go into hiding if they come after HER.

[DeSwiss]

6. Just look at the big, strong police-man....

...doing a beat down on a woman. And macing another. Fucking asshole!!! :mad:

K&R!!!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. And she was arrested for assaulting an officer

I didn't see anything in any photo that indicated she did anything except take her time getting on the sidewalk.

[JimRob is a Douche]

8. How do you like her million-dollar suit???

...it's a law one!

[Maraya1969]

104. No one gets money from the police.

Welcome to DU JimRob. :hi:

[EVDebs]

107. No ? but it goes on his file and the community has to pay the costs etc

for the insurance that covers this crap. Look at Seattle and NYC's cases.

I'd investigate the Providence, Rhode Island, city insurance situation.

Similar situation in Oakland brought out nameless cops in black combat gear with similar claims of crowd violence, but the legal system didn't see it that way,

Oakland pays for police violence at port
Steve Stallone, The Dispatcher (ILWU) March 2006
http://www.labournet.net/docks2/0603/oakland1.htm

The woman's protest group should demand an independent investigation of the incident.

[mdmc]

113. Folks get cash all the time due to cop abuse

My buddy Dan is lookin for a cool million due to a (court officer) cop's action.

[mtnester]

9. Also looks like a taser wire in the back of her left knee (the one that is bent)

take a closer look.

[binkster]

34. Not a taser

There's another picture posted where you can see that is a smooshed plant/flower. I wouldn't put it past them, though to use a taser if they had one. I suffer from an overload of adrenalin, but I would never consider doing that to someone.

[ThatsMyBarack]

73. FUCK-O-RAMA!!!!!!!

:puke: :mad: :nuke: :wtf:

On a lighter note, welcome to DU, binkster! :hi:

[barbtries]

11. ow that hurts

where did this happen? can she sue? what the fuck has happened to:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

damn
i'll check the links for more info

[MrSlayer]

12. I'd like to see video of what was happening beforehand.

Before jumping to conclusions.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. Right, because that's important.

:eyes:

[TX-RAT]

36. Yes it is!

[MrSlayer]

42. Well, it is important.

If you don't know what was happening beforehand you can't know if the police action was justified. We have all these people crucifying the cops, some calling for shooting them, without knowing if this person deserved what happened. I'll be the first to call for their prosecution if it was unjustified and the first to say "you get what you ask for" if it was. I don't have enough information to make a call on it and apparently neither does anyone else. Thus, I'd like to see some video of what went on before because we only see the aftermath.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

44. No, it's not.

I can see the leg getting hurt in a scuffle, but once it was, the cops should have stopped dogpiling on her and called an ambulance.

"I'll be the first to call for their prosecution if it was unjustified"

Yeah, I ain't holding my breath.

[TX-RAT]

46. An injured suspect can still hurt you.

The police charged Svoboda, of 139 Wood St., Providence, with three counts of assaulting a police officer, and with disorderly conduct and resisting arrest. Paiva said Svoboda was “hitting,” “kicking” and “pushing” officers.



Maybe should have just done what the officers asked her to do.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

51. What was she going to roundhouse kick them?

What sort of dumb Chuck Norris bullshit is this?

"Paiva said Svoboda was “hitting,” “kicking” and “pushing” officers."

Yeah, maybe before they broke her leg. Not that I'd take their word for it.

[MrSlayer]

52. I need to see what happened.

As I have said twice already. You are saying all these things without knowing what happened. How do you know they didn't call an ambulance right after the scene was settled down? How do you know that there weren't other disturbances going on at the same time that had to be handled first? You don't and neither do I. You are just seeing what you want to see and concluding what you want to conclude without knowing anything at all other than this person has a dislocated knee. Knowing the whole story might not be important to you but it is to me.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

55. It doesn't matter what happened.

It's after the borken leg that's important.

This is like all that bullshit with the Rodney King video. There were a bunch of racist abuse-apologists saying "but we don't know what happened before the video." It doesn't matter what happened.

[MrSlayer]

59. We're simply not going to see eye to eye on this.

I feel it does matter. Why not just say you hate the police and no matter what the circumstances were you'll always think they were wrong? Because that seems to be the case here.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

60. I don't hate police. I hate rotten police.

And what we've got here is rotten police.

Why not just say you agree but you're only trying to disrupt? Because that seems to be the case here.

[TX-RAT]

62. you're only trying to disrupt? (LOL)

The only person looking at this with any common sense and you call him a disruptor.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

63. Common sense?

Common sense says this is a clear cut case of police brutality.

Nobody with common sense thinks it's not police brutality. Nobody's that stupid. Thus, with process of elimination...

[krispos42]

115. Common sense says look at the lady on the ground

She is not cuffed, nor are cuffs in the arresting officer's hand. The two other officers around him are not able to help. All three are dealing the angry protesters around them.

I'd say this just happened, and we are looking at the chaos of the moment, much like the famous Elian Gonzales photo.



This photo does not give much context and zero timeline of those events. And Sheriff John Bunnell or Stacy Keach is not there to give narration or instant replays.

[MrSlayer]

66. What am I disrupting?

The police hatefest? I'm being fair about it. You are reaching conclusions based on absolutely nothing. You don't know that they are rotten because you don't know what happened.

I don't like bad cops either because they make the majority, who are dedicated, genuine good guys, look bad. But I'm not ready to call these guys bad without knowing the facts, you are.

Let's get the facts, then make the call.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

67. "I'm being fair about it."

I don't think you are.

"You are reaching conclusions based on absolutely nothing."

No, I'm basing conclusions on rather conclusive photographs. Those show what happened. If the photographs were, say, photoshopped and don't really show what happened, then I'll retract my statements. What happened before the photographs is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if she assaulted the cops, cheated on her taxes, or robbed a liquor store.

"I don't like bad cops either "

I don't believe you.

[CRF450]

71. So you'd still bash the cops if they break a mans arm by accident...

when he tried assaulting them with a knife? I'd say he got what he deserved. But we still dont know exactly what happend in this confrontation.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

77. Breaking the arm on accident is fine.

Continueing to beat him up after the fact is something else. But you already knew that.

[MrSlayer]

75. They do not show what happened, only the aftermath.

To claim that these pictures tell the story is the height of ignorance. All you see is the person laying there, not why she is laying there. And it does matter if she was assaulting the police because then there is justification for physically subduing her. You have a very unrealistic way of looking at things. What are the police supposed to do? Just smile as this person is kicking and hitting them? No, you take the person down and cuff them up.

But hey, believe what you want. It matters little to me.

[NashVegas]

78. Have You Ever Dislocated a Knee?

The aftermath is important, here.

The kneecap comes out of the joint and the damage comes from all the ligaments getting jostled about. I was in a knee-brace for 6 weeks but did not require surgery and that was mostly because I had the good sense to immediately get my kneecap back in the socket, something one does without thinking.

The girl in the photo, rather than being given the immediate medical attention (or being allowed to attend to herself) was held pinned and threatened with even more skeletal damage.

[MrSlayer]

80. No, I haven't.

But I have seen it before when playing football. It is a rather nasty injury no doubt. However, we don't know what else was going on at the time. There might have been other people to subdue or other disturbances to quell that would prohibit dropping everything to get her to a hospital. My whole point is we don't know what happened and it's really hard to judge the incident until we do. It could very well be that they did take her to a hospital immediately after the incident ended. It could be that while she was struggling with the officers she hurt herself. It could be that they kneecapped her for no reason at all. We don't know yet, which is why I made my original statement about wanting to see some video of the whole thing before saying this was unequivocal police brutality.

[TX-RAT]

61. Bingo!

Heaven forbid we actually wait for all the evidence to be presented. Where the fun in that?

[StarryNite]

110. This is the bush America now,

we don't need no evidence. :sarcasm:

[CRF450]

64. I agree, and for all we know it was most likely an accident

I too would really like to know or see a video of what happened to cause the broken leg.

[file83]

82. If you consider policy brutality an "accident", then I guess it was.

Fact is, when you make it police policy to get into fights with protesters and wrestle with them and shove them into the ground, inevitably, someone is going to get hurt, and it's usually the person getting ganged up on my big, strong and heavy men pumped up on their own adrenaline, egos, and power trips.

So if that's your policy, sure, "accidents" will happen. That's the nature of violence. I can guarantee you, if those cops wouldn't have been interfering with this person's right to protest, they wouldn't have hyperextended their knee.

In other words, if those cops had been minding the real criminals in their city, this "accident" wouldn't have fucking happened.

[TX-RAT]

100. Assaulting an officer makes you a real criminal.

And if she had been peacefully protesting instead of fighting and assaulting officers, she wouldn't have gotten her knee dislocated accidentally in the scuffle.

[file83]

121. Great - so your message for the day is "Submit to the police - OR ELSE!!!"

Again, the cops started this shit, they start the tangle, the woman doesn't submit and your reasoning is that its her fault she isn't a spineless citizen that should have submitted to the violation of her constitutional rights.

Got it. Oh, and you aren't invited to the next protest. Did you get the memo?

:dunce:

[Katherine Brengle]

90. Agreed - but these threads always go that way.

Police are persona non grata on DU - they're ALWAYS wrong.

[devilgrrl]

15. Beats having a off-color avatar thrown your way...

:sarcasm:

[Adsos Letter]

68. ....

... :shrug: .....

[WillyT]

16. Here's Another View...

:mad::nuke::mad:

Onedit: Link -> http://jonathanmcintosh.smugmug.com/gallery/3293537

[WillyT]

18. And This One Says It All

[Adsos Letter]

57. I looked through the whole series...

...why does this one "say it all" :shrug:

[uppityperson]

92. A sign in a puddle "says it all"? I'm confused

[burythehatchet]

22. Looks even worse in this photo

I hope she sues the crap out of them.

[Uncle Joe]

41. Damn! That hurt likes hell, just looking at the photo!

I just can't believe these police aren't trained in crowd control any better than that. What do these guys weigh two hundred plus fucking pounds with guns, mace, tasers and they have to break a woman's knee!?:grr:

[JuniperLea]

45. Oh yeah... she looks dangerous as all hell

better beat her down before she hurts one of you guys... :sarcasm:

[wordpix]

70. just look at all the weapons she had on her! (not)

[JuniperLea]

72. Those words on her signs...

Could break bones, ya know...

This is just sickening.

[kenny blankenship]

17. Why do our country's police look like SKINHEADS ?

[glitch]

25. Why indeed. Treatment for lice? nt

:mad:

[HughBeaumont]

26. Same mentality as nazi skinheads.

I use the "nazi" in front because the majority of skins aren't bad news like NS ones are.

But the police of this country would side with Blackwater in the event of a citizen uprising. I have NO doubt at all about that.

[coco77]

53. Because they are...

[aikoaiko]

56. No hair is easier to maintain and doesn't give anyone a handle.

[bamacrat]

19. FUCK THA POLICE.

I mean shit, they have way too much power, what ever happen to our right to assemble, our right to free speech, or right to protest? The only right we have now is to conform or be conformed. shitty real shitty.

[Usrename]

20. They were able to get the cuffs on this dangerous desperado.

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[live love laugh]

91. This one says it all. She is cuffed, leg broken and STILL the cop holds her. Where is the threat?

[ieoeja]

112. To hold her still til the EMTs get there.

The same reason all the cops have now gathered around her. To protect her from further harm.

[burythehatchet]

118. If you're being sarcastic, pardon my thickness, if not

from whom are are they protecting her?

[ieoeja]

124. Primarily, herself.

Also from anyone who might bump into her inadvertantly. But the man holding her (the comment to which I responded) is possibly/probably ensuring she lies still so she does not harm herself.

I will bet good money the EMTs strapped her onto the stretcher before placing her in the ambulance. Shall we also accuse them of restraining her out of fear she might hurt them?

[burythehatchet]

125. I don't know where to start, I wouldn't know when to finish

so I'll wish you well on your path.

[ieoeja]

128. You're like the flip side of TX-RAT.

To TX-RAT everything a cop does is always justified all the time (I've argued against him on other threads). It would seem that to you everything a cop does is always wrong all the time.

Remember the cops who sodomized that African in New York a few years back? Do you know what ultimately happened to them? At least one of them died trying to rescue people in the WTC. Or do you believe he was actually running into the WTC to find more people to sodomize?

Joey "The Clown" Lombardo is on trial here in Chicago right now. He is an extremely engaging individual. Friendly and full of laughter, he is well known for helping out at charity events. He also brutally murdered dozens of people as a mobster.

In that same vein, why is it so difficult to accept that the same cop who hurt this woman may then act to protect her from further harm?

[NotGivingUp]

21. this just makes me ill. n/t

[RaleighNCDUer]

23. It was shit like this that caused an earlier generation to call them

"pigs".

After 30 years of PR, they're still there.

[Aviation Pro]

24. Nice steroid enhanced muscles you got there....

...when was the last time you punks took a drug test?

[YOY]

27. So how are they 'Serving and Protecting' here?

Just curious. Not seeing it.

Officer Friendly needs to new beat...upside the head in prison.

[HughBeaumont]

28. The more things stay the same, the worse they fucking get.

I still attest that 50% of police are merely ex-jocks and bullies who joined up to legally continue their bullshit.

This photo sure isn't doing much to prove me wrong on THAT one, is it?

[burythehatchet]

29. I suspect you are correct, and I fear the same is true

for the armed forces. Legalizing brutality and murder.

[AX10]

30. I agree with you.

[HughBeaumont]

37. For every one good officer I've dealt with . . .

. . . there have been four bad ones. Mostly verbal bullying and insults. Never been assaulted, but one brandished a riot baton at me at the Sept 2005 DC Anti-War protest merely for walking in the wrong direction. I was luckier than others that day, apparently.

[glitch]

31. The other 50% need to bring them in line. If they don't police themselves...

perhaps the cities will when they've paid off enough in lawsuits.

[DemGa]

32. Is the cop macing the girl photographing the abuse?

all too common too. Sadly this display won't be seen outside of the internets.

[HughBeaumont]

39. Yes he is.

Dispatch calls are you doin something wicked?
No siree, jack, were just givin tickets
As we ride, ride, how we ride
Lets ride, lowride.

[txaslftist]

33. They're cops. That's what they do. Not a surprise.

[Matariki]

35. This photo should be plastered ALL OVER Providence

Shame these fucking assholes...

[EVDebs]

108. ...and people should be asking about the city's insurance situation.

Seattle, NYC, Oakland, have all had similar police over-reactions.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

38. They look pretty unscathed for being assaulted

She on the other hand looks as if she's going to be lame for life.

And what is that cop pointing at the girl with the camera? Does anyone know what that is?

From looking at that picture there's a good deal of disturbed soil under the cop on the left. Was he the one who did this to her? It would appear as if under him was the center of the struggle. I also wonder what those items are on the ground behind the cop on the right. There's also a pair of sunglasses between her legs. Those may belong to the cop on the left.

[Pastiche423]

48. The photo lightened...

[Lone_Star_Dem]

58. Those items on the ground may be zip cuffs

I also saw where a poster above said that the cop on the right was holding mace in his hand. Upon further looking at the photo it appears he's looking past the lady with the camera and pointing it out at the crowd. However, looking at their reflections in the window they don't appear to be acting in a violent fashion.


Look at this image from a different angle.




I'd speculate that the victims right foot at the time of the break to her left knee was about where the officer on the left (the one whose butt is in this pic) has his knee on the ground. I feel pretty safe in thinking he's the one who did this to her.

If that's correct looking at this picture shows no visible injury to him.



And this one shows witness to the event inside the store that are neither cops nor protesters. I'd sure like to hear what they have to say.

[Posteritatis]

40. Augh, I felt that. (nt)

[Greyskye]

43. That's 6 months plus

of physical therapy, and a knee that will never be the same again.

Been there, done that, about 4 times. And this looks worse than any of my incidents. My 1st dislocation got me about $6k in workman's comp. The others were because the knee had been weakened to begin with.

I hope she sues the friggin' pants off of them! :grr:

[Cookie wookie]

47. This brought me to tears. Looking at the pictures from the link....

in the article this crowd doesn't look threatening. From one of the photo captions:

"AUG/11/07 - Providence RI, Industrial Workers of the World (IWW) march on Jackies Galaxy, a local restaurant chain supplied by HWH/Dragonland in NYC, a supplier notorious for slave labor conditions and a lack of basic labor rights. A few blocks before finishing the march North Providence police brutally tackled two of the marches after they moved to the sidewalk too slowly, both were arrested and one suffered a badly broken leg in the attack. More info here."

Moving too slowly. And handcuffing that poor girl while she is writhing on the ground in pain is cruel beyond belief. When the paramedics get there, obviously they have the police uncuff her.

Horrible.

[deutsey]

49. It's the new Gilded Age...this is what happens to Labor in the Gilded Age

Soon, we'll be seeing Ludlow-style massacres.

:evilfrown:

[burythehatchet]

119. I wonder if Labor leaders have recognized the dire straits they/we are in.

The working class is looking at a bleak future.

[lumberjack_jeff]

50. And this is before they put handcuffs on her.

Fucking assholes. What the hell is the matter with people?

It's 1919 all over again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_Massacre_%28Washington%29

[paparush]

54. To Serve and Protect (and Maim if necessary)

[ryanus]

65. ow ow ow ow ow ow

gotta get that image out of my head....

[Zodiak]

74. Just some more info from the article and some more commentary

because whenever this sort of thing happens at a protest, it gets my hackles way up. Protesting is protected speech...and by its political nature, the injection of violence by the authorities risks breaking down public trust in the system itself.

I remember images from the WTO protests and that horribly brutal protest in Miami....people with rubber bullet wounds. People being shot in the back when they were not resisting. This image of this girl who was shot in the head by a rubber bullet.





She wasn't the only one, but she is the face I remember.

Anyways, the newspaper srticle relies very heavily on the police's version of events, but I am confused as to why the newspaper says this girl was tackled by two officers because she was moving too slowly, but the cops say she was assaulting them. Those were drumsticks by her side, by the way....and there was also a drum at the scene. She was making noise basically...and the drum makes for an odd thing to mix into a tackle with two men....perhaps that is how her leg broke.

Read the article provided by the DUer who talks about 1919. These protesters were IWW, which has a LONGSTANDING hatred with the American Legion. If these cops were vets, perhaps this history is known to them.

But from what I can see, she is not resisting arrest, but she does look to be in incredible pain.....could that be what the cops are referring to as kicking and screaming? It wouldn't be too far out of character for the police department to take such a dishonest position. Anything less that absolute compliance, even if invuluntary, is taken as resistance.

If she was "moving too slowly", a gang tackle on a single woman I would say is excessive force escalation. And where is the "minor injury" the cops claim to have suffered? You would think that if they were desirous of building a case with the public that they would disply such an injury. And was this injury incurred by the victim with the broken leg, or part of a very sloppy job at tackling her? None of that is answered in the article.

A balanced news article would have at least obtained the story from a witness at the scene. The photographer would be a good choice. Funny how none of his photographs seemed to capture any protesters attacking the police, as the cops claim.

Also....if this girl was in the road moving too slowly....how the hell did she end up 15 yards in the grass from a gang tackle? Did they hit her THAT hard?

I'm sorry, but after all I have seen, I am going to side with the protesters on this one. They were in the last two blocks of their march and I see nothing but peaceful protesting in the photos and police brutality. Also, cops as of late have become violent at protest events...especially ones that concern economics. It is only a matter of time before deaths start to happen...and with all of the not-quite-so-non-lethal weaponry that have been turned loose on citizens with impugnity lately, I find that death is a matter of time. Once it occurs, it will light this situation up like a tinder box.

The cops would be smart to hang these officers out to dry and let them bear the full brunt of the spotlight and the evidence. It would do a lot to restore public trust, which is getting thinner by the day.

[truth2power]

76. That picture disgusts me...

I've never been assaulted by a cop, but I've been in a lot of protests, and during the World Trade Organization protests here, (geez!..10 years ago?) there was some pretty bizarre stuff going on with the cops.

I believe that when many of them put on that uniform they think it increases the size of their dick to about 12 inches. Macho, macho man... :puke:

Fundamentally, their job is to protect the wealthy elites from the untermenschen . (That would be us). Funny, that! Because, in general, they have more in common with us, socio-economically speaking.

[Name removed]

87. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

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[Selatius]

83. Alex Svoboda, the woman with the dislocated knee, has NO HEALTH INSURANCE and needs your HELP!

The IWW is asking for donations to help pay for her medical bills.

More information can be found at the IWW website here:

http://www.iww.org/en/node/3563

[burythehatchet]

84. This is important info

if you haven't already, you ought to post it separately.

[Selatius]

85. Yeah, that's a good idea. I just started a separate thread to get the info out.

Thanks for the suggestion.

:)

[stillcool]

88. I don't know what is more disturbing...

seeing these pictures...or reading the comments of those who find these police actions perfectly acceptable...until evidence proves otherwise.

[TheMadMonk]

95. Karl Rove you people are not.

However, many of you are quite good at working from his play book.

No one has said that they find the police actions (or more correctly the outcome of those actions) acceptable. What some (a very small minority I note in cases like these) are attempting to say is that the actions which led to this injury might possibly be justified by events prior to the taking of these photos, of which we have no (or at least insufficient) useful knowledge. Without disputing a single fact presented in this discussion, I could concoct a scenario in which the actions which caused this injury were fully justified. It would require a lot of improbabilities and 'what ifs' but I could stuff something in the 'self inflicted injury' pigeonhole.

Please note that under certain conditions ('roid rage and PCP induced psychosis being two that cops can expect to face) people have been known to walk on the ends of broken bones.


Yes it is acknowledged that there are people in uniform who put it on so they could "legally" kick the shit out of others. However, that is not the real problem. It is merely a symptom of a larger one.

Perhaps the biggest part of the problem comes down to peanuts and monkeys (pay one, get the other). Once the pool of available civic and vocationally minded citizens is exhausted in any given field (policing, teaching, nursing, medicine, etc) you get what you pay for. If you are lucky. And if you are not, you get individuals who have motivations which in all probability well not be desirable or advantageous to the society they are employed to serve.

Compounding that is the level of training that can be afforded AND the level of training that the recruit can adsorb. It by those necessities must be simplistic and robust. Head, torso or wait is the basic order of the day when discharging a firearm and fancy shooting will get a cop in trouble even if the result is a perfect outcome. Hard and fast with batons. Pretty much right across the board, it's what is easiest to do by the numbers, not what is best. A true artiste with the baton could have a suspect whimpering with pain one minute and up and able to walk just moments later. Just as a true artiste with the chalk can if you will forgive a most terrible pun, 'make a dux of the biggest goose'.

Oh and one thing we liberals can pick up right on our own doorsteps is the almost absolute legal requirement that puts the personal safety of the civil servant ahead of the safety of the public. Fire and ambulance must often wait for clearance from the police before acting in an emergency. Nurses and first aiders are pounded with the message to protect themselves from infection before touching a patient. WTF? Whatever happened to Semmelweis? He proved beyond a shadow of a doubt what the biggest risk to patients in hospitals are. While policy might still say 'Protect the patient/client' it is secondary to 'Protect yourself'. Hey bozo's down in worksafe land if you protect the patient then you protect the carer anyway and sometimes because of the role a person choses, he must

And an unintended consequence of this is that this progression puts the perpetrator/(individual member of the public that is bothering them at the moment) somewhere on a par with 'what's for dinner tonight'. Easiest way to protect both self and public becomes put a bullet or at least 40kV.



If I were to bet on who was in the wrong here, I put my money on it being the cops and I would not expect to be given good odds. But we are not dropping the kids shoes on the neddies here. The stakes are the freedom (and possibly life) of a human being (however reluctant we might be to acknowledge that kinship).

AND THAT FOR FUCKS SAKE IS WHAT'S SUPPOSED TO MAKE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN US AND THEM. ISN'T IT?

We hold that a country's constitution is the ultimate embodiment of the law, and that that law applies equally to all. And suddenly you want to suspend it all because some arsehole copper outrages your delicate sensibilities. Would you (or BAH in particular) care to explain how that's one whit different to hooking a fag to a trailer hitch and going for a drag. (Crudity very much intended.)

[stillcool]

99. My delicate sensibilites...

have been outraged by some arsehole copper long before this article..or you... My experience...dare I say...is that any human being that is given control/power over another is subject to this type of behavior...be it an animal, a foster child, or a prisoner...and what is obvious in any is inherent in us all. Therefore..the behavior might be expected, understood, and guarded against. As far as my wish to explain the difference between an arsehole copper beating up on a twenty-two year old protesting female, and 'hooking a fag to a trailer hitch and going for a drag'..No, perhaps you can clarify that for me. Oops...forgot to add...no..I am not Karl Rove.

[TheMadMonk]

122. Not disputing that. Power corrupts. Stanford prison. etc.

And strangely my experience with cops is that their behaviour towards you tends to mirror your behaviour towards them. And that sir is another strange human characteristic. Ok crowd situations do make differences, but then again having the drug squad, dog squad, locals and Melbourne CID on one's doorstep is fairly crowded in its own right. And my wrist didn't even sting at the end of it all.

And the question I asked was not for the difference between this incident and the redneck yobbo exercise of a few years ago. What I want to know is what is the difference between what you and a lot of others here wish to do to those cops/repukes/kiddy diddlers or whatever happens to outrage you at that moment, and dragging another human being behind a vehicle?

Not very difference is there? A lot of people here would like to see certain "bad" people hurt very badly in addition to any punishment they might merit under the law.

It is not a very pleasant image to confront in a mirror is it? But it is one that you are doomed to see, unless and until you recognise that in a legal sense we must be as concerned with protecting the perverts from the public as we are about protecting children from them.



As I've already said I happen to agree with people's estimations of what happened. What I and a couple of others are trying to say is that our personal beliefs, no matter how strong, (or even accurate) have no bearing on the matter. The only thing that matters is what the evidence demonstrates in a court of law.

[stillcool]

126. I would prefer...

if you allowed me to express my perception...rather than you...imposing yours on me. I do not believe that anything is solved by violence. I believe that what is obvious in any human being..is inherent in all of us. In other words...we are all mirrors. In my mind, that translates to understanding human nature..and guarding against the most harmful traits of that nature..would be a wonderful fix. However, it seems that blame and shame are the preferred methods to overcome any cause and effect issue faced by this society. Excuse me for differing with your opinion of the condition and righteousness of law and order, and the judicial system in this society.

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TX-RAT]

101. I know whats disturbing.

People who crucify and condemn others without looking at all the evidence.

[stillcool]

116. exactly....

why, in this day and age, would anyone assume that a female protester merited such treatment?

[TheMadMonk]

123. Why in this day and age, would anyone call for extra-legal...

...solutions to problems on either side of the fucking fence. And until some people around here actually get that, then they are doing the enemy's work for them.

I'll say it again. The fucking cops are a symptom of a much bigger problem. The same problem which has your soldiers behaving as badly. And is caused by what's at the bottom of this whole slanging match.

And strangely what's causing that problem and us to be at loggerheads, is also the thing which makes us great. The ability to reduce something to it absolute basics and thereby understand it. Reductionism. It is something which is so much a part of what makes us human that we do it without even thinking about it.

When we follow the rules of its proper application, reductionism is a most marvelous tool. It answers questions with a definitiveness that can only otherwise be obtained through blind acceptance.

When we forget the rules, things go to shit very very fast. The ultimate aim of reductionism is to find the complexity which arises out of the interactions of many simple parts. It is not to cherry-pick the most simplistic and easily presented, understood, swallowed parts and claim them to be representative of the whole.

It matters more how many cops are on the beat than how good they are because:

2000 FLATFEET ON THE BEAT

makes far better copy for those wanting to, or forced to play the political game than

INSUFFICIENT POLICE RESOURCES

You get bad cops.

Hell the proliferation of cops, security guards, mercenaries, and other 'stop people from doing what they shouldn't' types, is down to what should be a demand for understanding becoming a demand for simplicity. Smash at the part of the problem we can see and make it disappear. And while decrying this behaviour in others, you become guilty of it yourselves.

Paraphrase: "One day soon, a cop is going to do something like kill a kid and the 'crowd' will say enough and put a stop to it with sharp and blunt instruments of punctuation."

"These cops need to yada yada yada."

WTF

We know the rules of justice, we know what the proper and just outcome should and we believe we know what the actal "just" outcome will be in this case. So why the fuck are you wanting to smash at wannabes in places they never have should been (cops or soldiers) when a properly just outcome will see justice done and an unjust one will confirm what we already know. The problem is systemic, it pervades virtually all aspects of civic governance, root and branch.

It doesn't matter how satisfying it would be to kick the living snot out of a bunch of "neo-Nazi shinheads in uniform", nor how richly they might deserve such a kicking.

WE

DON'T DO THAT SORT OF THING.

We know the easiest, obvious, most convenient/rewarding and particularly the visceral answers are not always the right ones, particularly when it comes to people and what goes between them. That's why the Bill of Rights was nailed onto the constitution with six penny nails.

They "get theirs" the legal and proper way, and if they don't, we find the reason why they didn't and do something about fixing it.


Perhaps one day it will come down to a dead child and a tsunami of flesh. And perhaps on that day that behaviour will be both proper and justified. But if that day ever comes, it means that the system is so badly broken, that the only viable solution is to smash it flat and begin again.

Forgive me for being selfish but I'd like to avoid that particular scenario if we could.

[burythehatchet]

120. .

[defendandprotect]

93. Sound familiar . . . total interference with the right to free assembly?

Wasn't that the issue which brought on the first revolution -- ????

[defendandprotect]

94. Militarization of our police departments . . ..

we have been able to see this happening over past decades --

Police brutality has been widespread in poorer areas --

Racist --

Obviously, they've had to turn to sadists to get police officers who will do things like this!!!

[symbolman]

96. When they lowered the bar

and ALLOWED a Fake "Macho" "Incurious" Idiot to Play pResident, and subsequently FAVORED TORTURE, these asshole buttplug psychotic PIGS started coming out of the woodwork, along with Brownshirt Freeper Types, who all of a sudden felt like they NOW RULED THE WORLD.

I used to crack up laughing when I'd see a Bush/Cheney sticker on a piece of shit 1981 Toyota Pickup truck rust bucket - as obviously there are deranged people, living in denial, thinking that they're going to Ride that Bush GRAVY TRAIN, get all the Money that they so richly deserve - until I realised that these people are actually DANGEROUS.

THey'd do ANYTHING for these Country Raping Clowns, and that includes the PIGS that streamed into the job as a result. When I was younger, and fresh out of the Nam era, having spent my time in service, I decided that free speech, MINE, had been Earned, and started saying "NO" to COPS.. and they of course took the opportunity to beat the shit out of me, many times. I was once thrown in a room naked, in the dark, that FLUSHED every 20 minutes, with a hole in the center to use as a toilet. Couldn't lay down, as I would have drowned, or froze to death, for how long I still don't know.

So I know what it's like to TORTURED by your own country. And back then they were PIGS, just like now.. I noticed that the Police were actually being more professional over the years, with a few assholes gunning down innocents now and then, but the bar had been raised.

No more, and now you can see the chickens coming home to roost in this picture.

These are not men, they're giant brain dead protein ROBOTS, victims of brainwashing, and hired for their viciousness in the first place.

What Bush has sown, we are now reaping. Time to get the gas masks out, and throw those fucking tear gas containers BACK - the ones that are supposed to use the LAW, OUR LAW, are seemingly Now the ENEMY of the People. Corporate Henchmen.

These men should be busted, thrown out on their ears, and sued back into the stone age. Unfortunately, there is no longer ANY LAW.

Poor, poor woman, my heart goes out to her. SHe's obviously in SHOCK for more reasons than just her leg. You can see the disbelief in her face, that any human would treat another in this fashion.

[HughBeaumont]

97. It's kind of reminiscent of EVERY Repuke presidency, starting with Nixon's.

General mean-ness and volatility are rampant during these times. Thugs and bullies think they're allowed carte blanche when an unfeeling idiot like Reagan or any of the Bewshes gets elected.

[symbolman]

98. Yep

Hammer? Meet Nail.. :)

YOU GOT THAT RIGHT, and Never mind that they don't even make SENSE while they're doing it.. there's no discourse, just RAW HATRED, and it's FED by the lack of Remorse and Empathy espoused by these CREATURES.

Spread by the Media, who LOVE to say that the Country is DIVIDED, whether it is or not, and when you look at the REAL Numbers, you see that probably a less than 20% group of people that are SHITHOUSE RAT CRAZY who are the base.

Good call, you said a mouthful there, my friend.

[Name removed]

102. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[burythehatchet]

105. Sometimes when one watches an old movie from 30 or 40 years ago

any scene with a police confrontation would contain a minimal amount of violence. While they are only films, I think it says a lot about what the public/police relationship was, and has become.

[EVDebs]

106. Got their badge numbers ?

The photographers/videographers may be in danger if these cops decide to 'protect' themselves if you know what I mean.

[Malikshah]

111. Nope-- no excuse for the Police. None. None. None

They wonder why folks don't trust them.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

114. Bet she has a good lawsuit and hope she gets a good lawyer.

Please!!!

But then, remember the Rodney King beating. Jurors believed the defense, not their lyin' eyes.

PS: ONE of my daughter's best friends became an orphan at age 7 because of the 1992 L.A. Riots. Kinda brings it home.

[burythehatchet]

117. There will come a time when they will have to choose to fight or stand down

(against us).

[lonestarnot]

127. Looks to me like it is already here cept she can't stand up.

[brentspeak]

129. Did anyone take video of the protest?

The still photos won't dispel police claims that Svoboda was attacking them.

When it's a "he said/she said" situation, municipal judges always side with the local cops, no matter what.