Let's list all the initiatives that are "off the table."

[TahitiNut]

Universal Health Care ... the votes just aren't there.
Gay Marriage ... the votes just aren't there.
National Election Reform with paper ballots and audit controls ... the votes just aren't there.
Media Deconsolidation ... the votes just aren't there.
Penalties for off-shoring jobs ... the votes just aren't there.
Kyoto ... the votes just aren't there.
Real recovery from Katrina ... the votes just aren't there.
Restoration of habeas corpus ... the votes just aren't there.


"Therefore make peace with your God whatever you conceive Him to be: Hairy Thunderer or Cosmic Muffin -- With all its hopes, dreams, promises, & urban renewal, the world continues to deteriorate. -- Give up."

[EFerrari]

1. Election reform -- Feinstein won't move on it until 2012.

[wiggs]

18. That's a stupefyingly mysterious one. nt

[dkofos]

23. Not when you are guaranteed reelection.

Why should Fienstein give a shit how the votes are counted in the rest of Amerika.

[EFerrari]

27. Or even the rest of the State? She's got hers. n/t

[dkofos]

29. Exactly

[Virginia Dare]

2. Correct, because Bush would veto every single one of those things..n/t

[TahitiNut]

3. Yep. Waste of time and effort to even try. After all, ZERO votes is better than too few.

:shrug: (Everyone knows that those votes can be saved and used somewhere else, right?)

[bobbolink]

7. Oh, so true. A vote saved is a vote earned.

Where's the "i give up" emoticon?

[Virginia Dare]

8. I don't know..

you might see some of those issues crop up between now and 2008, just in an effort to force the Repubs into voting against them. But I pretty much see Bush vetoing everything that Congress sends him between now and then. We'll see, you've got to pick your battles and it seems that Iraq is the big one right now.

[Phredicles]

14. Iraq IS the big one right now. And how's extricating ourselves from that going?

Oh, right.:banghead:

[TahitiNut]

16. The sooner Cheney/Bush leave the White House then the sooner the U.S. leaves Iraq.

I don't know how much clearer it can be. :shrug:

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

41. I like your optimism

I'm just not sure.

If Kucinich is prez, then yeah, we'll be out. Obama, maybe. The others, not so sure.

There's so much industrial money that will be heaped on the prez, it won't be easy to do the right thing.

[Virginia Dare]

17. So, which is it, should we try..

and bang our heads against the wall, or should we leave it off the table and save ourselves the frustration?:shrug:

[bvar22]

30. The Democrats do not control bush*.

The Democrats DO CONTROL the agenda in House and Senate. Choosing to NOT produce BILLS because "<in whiney voice>bush* would just veto them" effectively hands control over to bush*.
The Democrats need to FORGET ABOUT BUSH and simply concentrate on doing what is right and let the chips fall where they may.

If people only attempted things when they could guarantee the outcome, life would be very dull.
I can't control outcomes. I can only give something my best shot.
The Democrats should do the same.
Fear of Failure is never a good excuse.

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. Does he still have veto powers if he is impeached?

Just wondering . . .

[dkofos]

24. He won't have to veto because the repubes will block them in the senate

[eridani]

36. The fact that there are never enough votes to overturn Social Security--

--has never stopped Republicans from continuing to advocate it and to put it on the table. Why is that, do you suppose?

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. No Child Left Behind

because everyone wants those evil public school teachers held accountable.

[TahitiNut]

9. It's people seeking revenge for getting bad grades.

Proving they didn't even deserve the grades they got. "Social promotion" is bad policy.

[bobbolink]

6. Restoring the Medicaid cuts.

We bums aren't worth it.

:cry:

[debbierlus]

10. But, let's not impeach because we won't be able to move forward

Unreal

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

34. lol! I was going to post something similar to what you said earlier today and decided against it! :

[TahitiNut]

38. That's EXACTLY the point.

The disconnect from reality (and abdication of principles) among the "pragmatists" on DU really stuns me at times.

[Ino]

11. and yet we can't impeach ...

because that would interfere with all the important legislation we're doing.

And oh yeah... the votes just aren't there for that either.

[sinkingfeeling]

12. Gee, do you think it has anything to do with the 22 failed cloture votes?

So far the GOP minority has attempted to block an 'up or down' vote 42 times. Until there is a larger Democratic majority in the Senate, that's life.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/226/story/18218.html

WASHINGTON — This year Senate Republicans are threatening filibusters to block more legislation than ever before, a pattern that's rooted in — and could increase — the pettiness and dysfunction in Congress.

Seven months into the current two-year term, the Senate has held 42 "cloture" votes aimed at shutting off extended debate — filibusters, or sometimes only the threat of one — and moving to up-or-down votes on contested legislation. Under Senate rules that protect a minority's right to debate, these votes require a 60-vote supermajority in the 100-member Senate.

Democrats have trouble mustering 60 votes; they've fallen short 22 times so far this year. That's largely why they haven't been able to deliver on their campaign promises.

[TahitiNut]

15. It's high time to put the shoe on the other foot: No Funding.

The delusion is centered on the idiotic notion that the Democrats need to PASS legislation to halt the illegal occupation. That's nonsense. The BEAST is feeding on taxpayer funding and it's time to STARVE THAT BEAST. Let's see the GOP feed the beast with 50 Democrats blocking the gravy train!

Those cloture votes were nothing but the Washington Democrats playing the GOP Globerapers - playing 'victim' to the GOP.

[sinkingfeeling]

22. What? You started this thread and were complaining about the following.

Universal Health Care ... the votes just aren't there.
Gay Marriage ... the votes just aren't there.
National Election Reform with paper ballots and audit controls ... the votes just aren't there.
Media Deconsolidation ... the votes just aren't there.
Penalties for off-shoring jobs ... the votes just aren't there.
Kyoto ... the votes just aren't there.
Real recovery from Katrina ... the votes just aren't there.
Restoration of habeas corpus ... the votes just aren't there.

They're 'off the table' because the Democrats in the Senate don't have 60 votes to get cloture. Now you're off on stopping the funding of Iraq. How you gotta do that one? There must be 60 votes to end debate and bring up a straight vote on any bill/amendment including funding Iraq.

[walldude]

26. I find it amazing that the Republicans were able to get

"cloture" on everything they ever did during their totalitarian rule. Even thought they did not have a 60 vote majority.

[TahitiNut]

33. Fascinating, isn't it?

:puke:

[KoKo]

13. yeah....it's getting kind of grim...

sort of from grim to grimmer....

[Tom Joad]

19. War with Iran... all options are on the table. Let us overthrow the table

[G_j]

20. they keep saying there are more important things to do than impeachment

guess they aren't on your list, what are they again?
:shrug:

[Mark Twain Girl]

21. Defense spending -- gotta show we're tough!

[TahitiNut]

37. Funny how they can find a table big enough for that one, isn't it?

:puke:

[Zodiak]

25. This is why that statement "the votes just aren't there" is a BS talking point

because it is always followed with "we need to get important legislation done like health care with the time we have".

If the votes aren;t there for impeachment, they are not going to be there for anything else. Because we handed off the golden football of funding the war with very little fight or fanfare, we have elboldened the Republicans.

The only thing allowed to go through under the present circumstances are bad policies supported by Bush. For 18 months, at least.

The use of this talking point is a marked lack of respect to the one it is used against because the talking point assumes that the listener has no idea what the likelyhood of toher legislation getting passed actually is.

Bush vetoed money for children's health, for God's sakes. The Republicans filibustered just about everything.

ONLY impeachment is the ticket out of this maze....or waiting until 2008. We know the political landscape, now, and that landscape features a possibility of war with Iran, martial law, more spying, more war, more neglect and death. Bush can change the political landscape to be so much worse for us in 2008.

Relying on an uncertain future rather than taking the responsibility in a known political landscape now seems, to me, as the worst strategic move a party can make. Factor in the poll numbers, and it is like the beltway insiders advising our Democrats are deliberately trying to take a dive.

Why don't we wait to take care of global warming later? After all, the consequences of not acting now could be catastrophic for our future, but then again, maybe the problem will take care of itself in the future when we run out of oil and stopping burning so much. I consider both of these arguments (global warming and impeachment) to be analagous.

[leftofthedial]

28. if they attempted any of these

their real agenda would suffer

[jtrockville]

31. You forgot: IMPEACHMENT

I wonder how many other crimes are not going to be prosecuted?

Can we rob stores now?
Is it ok to discriminate based on gender/age/race/whatever?
What about murder?

Is there a minimum net worth a person must have to be immune?

[KoKo]

32. I gotta give a KICK to this to get BACK TO BASICS! K&R!

[Breeze54]

35. There might be a lot more, "Votes Not There", come Nov. '08!

If this continues. It's a real shame for the country. :cry:

K & R'd

[bobthedrummer]

39. .

[Anita Garcia]

40. kick for Katrina and Rita survivors

Thanks TahitiNut

[FreepFryer]

42. Here's what the 110th Congress (split 49D/ 49R/ 2I) has accomplished...

Besides the ongoing investigations by the House and Senate Judiciary Committees into various Bush administration and Republican (and, indeed even Democratic) members' misdeeds, here's what our 'Democratic majority' (sic) has accomplished:

(from http://www.speaker.gov/legislation?id=0053)

DEFEND OUR COUNTRY

- require benchmarks and progress report requirements for the war in Iraq—SIGNED INTO LAW
- support timetables to bring our troops home from Iraq—VETOED BY THE PRESIDENT OVER THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE
- provide critical support for veterans, military health care and military readiness—SIGNED INTO LAW
- provide the largest increase in support for veterans’ services in history—PASSED THE HOUSE
- require quality care for our wounded warriors—PASSED THE HOUSE
- finally implement 9-11 Commission recommendations, three years later—PASSED THE HOUSE AND SENATE
- provide 3,000 new border patrol agents and tougher aviation and port security—PASSED THE HOUSE
- provide emergency wildfire funding—SIGNED INTO LAW

RESTORE ACCOUNTABILITY

- restore pay-as-you-go budget discipline for the first time in six years—DONE
- pass a budget that balances by 2012 with no tax increase—DONE
- impose rules for the highest ethical standards in Congressional history—DONE
- pass the most sweeping lobby reform effort in a generation—PASSED THE HOUSE AND SENATE
- restore strong Congressional oversight, saving billions, exposing corruption and incompetence—ONGOING
- clean up government contracting with reforms to end waste, fraud, and abuse—PASSED THE HOUSE
- provide more protections for whistleblowers who save tax dollars—PASSED THE HOUSE
- bring overdue assistance to Gulf Coast communities—SIGNED INTO LAW
- remove politics from influencing the appointment of U.S. Attorneys in the wake of White House scandal—SIGNED INTO LAW

GROW OUR ECONOMY

- increase the minimum wage for the first time in a decade—SIGNED INTO LAW
- send overdue disaster aid to American farmers and ranchers—SIGNED INTO LAW
- create innovation scholarships for 100,000 math and science students and 25,000 highly trained math and science teachers—PASSED THE HOUSE
- double basic research and development funding—PASSED THE HOUSE AND SENATE
- create incentives for small business innovation investments—PASSED THE HOUSE

STRENGTHEN OUR FAMILIES

- provide emergency assistance to ensure children receive quality health care through SCHIP (State Children’s Health Insurance Plan)—SIGNED INTO LAW
- require Medicare to negotiate cheaper prescription drugs—PASSED THE HOUSE
- prevent health care discrimination based on inherited conditions—PASSED THE HOUSE AND SENATE
- expand medical science through stem cell research—VETOED BY THE PRESIDENT OVER THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE
- cut student loan interest rates in half and crack down on lending abuses—PASSED THE HOUSE
- improve and expand Head Start preschool—PASSED THE HOUSE AND SENATE
- convene the National Summit on America’s Children—aligning policies with cutting-edge science—DONE
- put 50,000 new police officers on the street—PASSED THE HOUSE
- facilitate states in reporting criminal and mental health data for gun purchase background checks—PASSED THE HOUSE

PRESERVE OUR PLANET

- by July 4th, deliver a wide-ranging Energy Independence Day initiative to strengthen our national security, create new American jobs, and reduce global warming—REPORTED TO HOUSE
- repeal $14 billion in taxpayer subsidies to Big Oil to be reinvested into clean alternative energy and energy efficiency—PASSED THE HOUSE
- fight gas price gouging and OPEC price fixing—PASSED THE HOUSE AND SENATE
- direct $3 billion to curb global warming and spur renewable energy—PASSED THE HOUSE
- develop a plan to Green the Capitol, reducing the carbon footprint 50%—DONE
- expand our efforts to ensure safe drinking water—PASSED THE HOUSE

Oh yeah, throw the bums out. Pfft. Note I refer to Lieberman herein as an Independent, not an 'Independent Democrat'.

[Horse with no Name]

43. Should we take up a donation for more bandwidth?

I mean seriesly...

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

44. In the interest of conserving time and space I've decided...

... to list instead all the important and meaningful initiatives that are ON the table, as well as the notable important achievements of our beloved Dem leadership since gaining a majority in the House and Senate last November: