Is homophobia a trivial matter?

[terrya]

Indulge my curiousity here.

[LostinVA]

1. Hmmm... some people say it is

[etherealtruth]

2. No

[ThomCat]

3. To most people, yes.

The only end of that stick they'll face is the handle, so they probably don't care who gets hit with the other end.

It doesn't affect them, so they aren't concerned about it.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

7. ..

:thumbsup:

its so much easier to say lighten up when its not your rights at stake

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[terrya]

10. Thank you

:thumbsup:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

4. no.

its not a funny matter either

[porphyrian]

5. Homophobia or hatred of homosexuals?

They aren't the same thing. And neither of them are trivial to those involved.

[madeline_con]

55. I didn't realize there was a difference.

Seriously, enlighten me.

I think either one is a major problem, BTW.

[porphyrian]

60. Homophobia is literally a fear of homosexuality. It doesn't necessarily mean hatred.

Many people inaccurately use "homophobia" to describe hatred of homosexuals. Someone who is phobic has an intense, irrational fear of something, and they will often display extreme behavior in the presence of their phobic trigger. However, that doesn't mean they hate that trigger (although they may hate the way it causes them to feel). Someone who bashes homosexuals (either verbally or physically) doesn't necessarily fear them at all, and is more closely likened to a racist (homo-sexist?).

[madeline_con]

62. Oh, now I'm confused...

I've always heard the "hatred based on fear" argument. The one about groups of jerks beating up or killing gays because god forbid one of "them" should come on to one of the jerks.

I do see a nuance, but I think it's all fear based, really. Fear of gays finding them attractive, fear of AIDS, etc.

The noise I hear against gay marriage is definitely about fear, not loss of sanctity. :eyes:

[porphyrian]

72. Fear is an emotional state, a phobia is a neurosis involving a fear or anxiety reaction.

People oversimplify the reality when they claim everyone who beats up gays is somehow afraid of them, or of becoming like them. While that is undoubtedly true in some cases, it's not necessarily the rule (although it really pisses the gay-haters off to say so).

While people can and do sometimes "hate what they fear," and this is likely the origin of the term "homophobia," it is not true that all hate stems from fear or that all fear causes hate. Some people learn hate from their family. Others act hateful, but are doing it for the approval of their peers. Still others are just mean. Fear is only a single factor in the equation.

The "loss of sanctity" argument is simply bullshit, as half of all marriages end in divorce in America, without gays being allowed to participate in most states. I don't know if it's fear or not, but it's not phobia.

[ProfessorGAC]

86. Would A Better Term Be Homopathic?

That would be consistent with the semantics you're describing, i think. Not sure, though.
The Professor

[porphyrian]

88. I think that might be better, but it'll get confused with "homeopathic."

Homo-, if I'm not mistaken, either refers to the genus (as in Homosapien) or it means "same." And -pathic means "passive" or "suffering," and is used in describing disorders, such as "psychopathic." So, it may not be a real word yet, but it might just be a better one. More accurate, anyway.

[ProfessorGAC]

90. Yeah, You're Right.

I'll have to rethink that. I think it's the right term, but confusing. Braincramp on my part. Should have thought of that.
GAC

[Recursion]

80. Homophobia is a bad name for it

Homophobia was coined as a name for aversion to homosexuals based on a hypothesized (and nowadays somewhat discredited) cause of the aversion.

Incidentally, the "homo" in homophobic has a different etymology than the "homo" in homosexual; that's one of the reasons the name is unfortunate.

[porphyrian]

85. Ah, good catch. - n/t

[WI_DEM]

6. prejudice or bigotry against any group is not trivial

[The Straight Story]

8. No, but if we are discussing the snickers ad - here is my take

I remember often seeing kids like the little rascals - girl kisses the boy and he goes yeck and wipes it off. A tired old gag still used today.

I don't think the directors of such thing were gay and telling me being straight was yucky.

But to each their own. If someone is offended by something that is their god given right. Whether it is christians being offended by evolution or cat lovers over puppy bowl 3.

I might as just well be offended that because I was not offended people see me as not supporting their cause, etc.

[Bluebear]

14. You have GOT to be kidding, TSS

'I remember often seeing kids like the little rascals - girl kisses the boy and he goes yeck and wipes it off. A tired old gag still used today.

I don't think the directors of such thing were gay and telling me being straight was yucky.'

=====

I don't even know where to start.

[The Straight Story]

17. So you are telling me what I can be offended about?

:evilgrin:

[Bluebear]

20. No I am telling you you don't 'get' this issue

You are trying to relate it to your straight experience and that is the black and white of it for you.

[The Straight Story]

37. I'll walk ya through my thoughts as I watched the commercial

When I saw em kiss I though - oh man, the fundies are gonna be pissed!

Then when they did their manly thing I thought - that is exactly how silly the fundies look.

If it had been a gay man accidentally kissing a straight woman, it still would have got laughs (though I can't see the woman ripping hair off her chest).

My take on it, until I saw the threads here, were 'good on ya for making fun of the homophobes and showing what hicks they were'

I fully expected to see Falwell bitching about how mars had two men kissing, and how they sneaked it in just to piss of christians.

Others are offended, all for different reasons. I can't stop people from being offended, and sure they can point out why they were - but I can point out why I wasn't and I don't see that it makes me a bad person because I wasn't.

Not all gays were offended (my best friend thought it was a riot) and not all straight fundies were offended. Some were, and they have said why. Some weren't and have said why.

[Bluebear]

41. See, it's all about YOUR thoughts.

Did you see Judy Shepard's comments? And do some gay people at DU mean so little to you?

WE WERE OFFENDED.

But that's not enough for you. You keep having to comment on it and minimizing it. I'm glad your best friend thought it was a riot. Not all of us did. We read your threads when you are close to tears, we listen to your thoughts. How come when WE hurt you can't feel OUR pain for a moment?

[The Straight Story]

45. Well, that is interesting

You say 'we' referring to a group of people who share a common theme - being offended at something.

Them you say it all about my own thoughts on the matter - but there is also a 'we' who are not offended.

It is tricky to discuss/debate something based on feelings and interpretation.

Basically we have a simple disagreement in interpretation of an event we collectively witnessed.

You and others saw it as X and myself and others as Y - it does not mean either group does not care about the other and/or the issues they face in general, just that they disagree about the level this event reaches in a more broad scope.

Folks think I am silly and don't belong on DU (seen that a few times) if I was not offended and don't get it. I take umbrage with that. I don't think those offended should be cast out for seeing the issue in their way.

I am not even sure why this is such a flamewar topic here. We agree to disagree on many things, and there is no black and white here - either one is offended or they are not, and each state why in hopes that the other side of the coin sees their side.

Since I saw it different I am painted as uncaring, ignorant, bigoted, etc and so on. I don't think people who were offended are that way.

I do feel it was and is all about the intent - and we see two different intents, and because interpreting things like this is interpreting the bible there are bound to be different denominations spring up - but we all believe in the same 'god' - or in this case the same ideals. Homophobia is wrong, and gays are getting screwed on their civil rights by both the right and the left.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Karenina]

59. omc's kinder and gentler version.

Nice to see you, Bliss. :loveya:

[bicentennial_baby]

82. ...

:spray:

good one!

[uppityperson]

26. 2 little kids vs 2 adluts. There is a difference.

[Debi]

40. cat lovers over puppy bowl 3.

You're just pissed b/c the black labs got all the waterbowl air-time.

[FreeState]

44. Thats not the same

I remember often seeing kids like the little rascals - girl kisses the boy and he goes yeck and wipes it off. A tired old gag still used today.

But thats not even what the commercials did. They went farther - in one they self mutilate, in another they beat the crap out of each other and in another they drink poison.

I guess Little Rascals left that part out....

[The Straight Story]

47. I am talking about the main commercial

Though I can see Alfalfa swigging a big jug with a skull and bones on it if it was nearby :)

[FreeState]

48. LOL

I can see Alfalfa doing that as well...

However the self mutilation was in the ad aired on Sunday (Id consider pulling my chest hair out self mutilation - but then again I have thick chest hair;)

[Zhade]

109. "christians being offended by evolution" is just sad. How can anyone be that ignorant?

If you don't understand why the campaign is so repugnant, after checking out the whole thing, then you need to re-examine your feelings on GLBT folk.

[mentalsolstice]

9. A hatred or phobia of any human is not trivial!

Well, unless that human currently resides in the WH. :evilgrin:

[slackmaster]

94. Please explain how someone else's hatred or fear is necessarily a problem

If the person simply feels that way privately and doesn't manifest it in discriminatory behavior, why is that anyone else's business?

[mentalsolstice]

102. It's not anyone's business, but it's still not trivial

You ask how it's anyone else's business...it's not...as you said if it's kept totally private. But hatred of other humans is never trivial. So I'm not sure what your point is. I've known more than a few who cannot keep their bigotries or phobias to themselves, and of course that results in the spread of such to others who may act in more discriminatory ways. Additionally, if one were able to truly keep hidden their hatred or fear of a group of other human beings, it surely results in a silence that results in allowing discriminatory acts to go on...such as happened during the Holocaust.

[slackmaster]

108. My only point is to suggest picking battles wisely

If you have no control over something and it isn't causing you any harm, choosing to regard it as trivial can save you some grief and psychic energy.

I've known more than a few who cannot keep their bigotries or phobias to themselves, and of course that results in the spread of such to others who may act in more discriminatory ways.

Bigotries and phobias are contageous only to those who already have a predisposition for them. Usually people mouthing off their hang-ups results mainly in bringing shame down on their own heads.

[mentalsolstice]

110. However, if it's kept private

If a person's bigotries are only known to themselves, then it shouldn't cause the person(s) it's aimed at any grief, as it's not known to them...right? I have a disability, and if you have a bigotry or phobia against persons with disabilities, but you totally keep it to yourself, why should I worry? However, that's not the situation that has been displayed here in the past couple of days. Additionally, what if you, with your phobia or bigotry, encounter a group of people who are some way attacking me or discriminating against me, and because you inwardly feel the same way, you do nothing. Are you not as guilty as my attackers?

Bigotries and phobias are contageous only to those who already have a predisposition for them. Usually people mouthing off their hang-ups results mainly in bringing shame down on their own heads. Unfortunately in most instances those who have a predisposition are young, impressionable people who model the adults around them. That's how bigotries get passed down through generations.

Look, none of us are perfect. We're all guilty of some kind of hatred or fear of others, I know I'm guilty in this regard. The OP asked if such feelings are trivial. I said no. Because I feel that no matter how privately such feelings are kept within each of us, it still eats away at each of us individually and at humanity as a whole. It's not trivial, no matter what.

I still don't understand why you're asking these questions, in this forum...Is there something eating away at you?

[slackmaster]

111. What do you mean by "these questions"?

Other than the subject of this reply, I have asked only one:

"If the person simply feels that way privately and doesn't manifest it in discriminatory behavior, why is that anyone else's business?"

I do appreciate your reply.

[MuseRider]

11. You would think so

from what you read around here.

Never. I have seen close up and personally what it does to people. Most of us have seen it and if we care we remember it and try to right the wrongs. It is never trivial.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

13. Nope.

Although it's a good target for satire.

[treestar]

15. It depends on the extent of it.

It's not either/or.

You have the far right wingers who would do physical harm.

Then you have everyone in between, in various gradations.

Then you have the liberals trying to do their best but perhaps not being perfect and making a slip of the tongue of some kind? Or laughing at that stupid ad.

Maybe someone would laugh at the ad, but that does not mean they don't favor equal rights for gays. Or that they wouldn't defend a gay person being attacked verbally or physically by a real right wing homophobe.

[Hosnon]

16. If by "trivial" you mean

"unimportant" then no.

Then again, a fear of homosexuals is odd to me.

More important is dislike or hatred of homosexuals. Homophobia is not trivial in the sense that it is often a precursor or indicator of something else.

[asthmaticeog]

18. Sure seems like it sometimes, doesn't it?

Shame.

Was this prompted by a specific post today or just the disappointing general trend around here?

[terrya]

23. The past couple of days have really prompted it.

I've stunned at what I've read around here. But fuck, it's been around longer than that.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

19. Ask Matthew Shepard's parents.

Ask a loving homosexual couple who have been denied the right to adopt and raise a child.

No, it is a very serious question, with many repercussions.

[saltpoint]

21. Not at all trivial. It suggests a betrayal of affirmation of

others' right to meaning and pleasure and context on their own terms.

Ignorance and hatred are often, if not usually, variables. It's selfish and it's stupid and it sanctions a climate in which violence against the Other is condoned.

[cboy4]

69. Long time no see OC! I knew you'd have something great to say

to add to the discussion. :hi:

[saltpoint]

75. cboy4, hello. There you are. Out there in California keeping it

real.

I'm reading you in my on and off visits to these boards and as always, you've been making good sense.

I hope all's well your way. While the rest of us are freezing our asses off, I am happy for you if you are in warmer temps.

By the way, I just finished reading LETTERS TO MONTGOMERY CLIFT by Noel Alumit. I think you would like that book. Probably it's available on-line thru Amazon, Abebooks, etc.

All good wishes.

[Morgana LaFey]

22. Never. Not in any way, ever.

People still die because they are gay -- either at their own hands (tragically, often as teens) or at the hands of others, and many are forced to live diminished lives (e.g., in the closet) because they are gay.

Nor is its parent, misogynism/sexism in any way trivial, for the same reasons. Women die every day for no other reason than that they're women, and still live diminished lives because of their gender.

EVERY "small" and apprently "trivial" thing that contributes to the degraded, oppressed position of either GLBT community members or women helps keep the hatred and oppression firmly in place. And that needs to stop. It ESPECIALLY needs to stop here, at DU, where there should be virtually NO incidences of sexism or homophobia. This includes everything from "bitch" and other gender slurs used against women (any women) any and all "minor" homophobic attitudes or remarks.

People of good will of either sex owe it to themselves, to the nation and to the world to make it their business to know the issues and make themselves as discrimination-free as possible.

And all that applies to racism too.

[Zookeeper]

24. No. n/t

[verse18]

25. Hell no.

But to some, it is trivial because it will never personally effect them.

I have had some serious arguments with my mother about the hateful way she talks about homosexuals. I pointed out her homophobia on numerous occasions and told her not to use the f-word around me. I also tried to compare the hate people have against homosexuals to the fact that my sister, who is Black, is dating someone White and back in the day, these couples were ridiculed, assaulted, not allowed to married and had to deal with being hated simply because of who they loved. The last argument got so heated that I had to hang up on her before I said something I really regretted. No matter what I did or how much I talked to her, she would not change her mind. About three weeks after that phone conversation, my mother told my her cousin had been killed in NY during a hate-crime because he was gay. That was an epiphany for her. Her attitude has been completely different since then.

[Solly Mack]

27. No, it's not.

It kills - and that is no trivial matter.


Not every homophobe will physically attack someone(but never underestimate the power of words to injure) - but every single person who has ever physically attacked anyone in the GLBT community because they were GLB or T, has been homophobic - and that includes attacking people perceived as GLBT.

Homophobes weren't born homophobic...they were taught/conditioned/indoctrinated - in the home, from their peers, and from a society that makes it OK/acceptable to discriminate against and denigrate the GLBT community.

[Debi]

28. No

And the continued 'lighten-up' attitude is amazing to me.

Kids who use the term 'that's so gay' or 'don't be so gay' keep trivializing the harm those words cause

If gay men and women don't call offensive material or actions offensive won't we keep seeing commercials like the Snickers one being shown? If those of us who respect people, even *gasp* gay people don't cry fowl won't we keep hearing 'lighten-up'?

The second I saw that ad I thought it was the continued promotion of homophobia. And I don't think that's trivial at all.

[DaveJ]

29. If you're referring to the Snickers ad, you're right to be concerned

Those who aren't offended, think of it this way... what if an ad depicted white people who suddenly turned black, and then were horrified by it and had to do something to alleviate the condition. I think that would be clearly racist to all, and a perfect analogy to this commercial.

[ThomCat]

30. I've used that same analogy

to no affect.

But I think you stated it better and more concisely that I did. :)

[William Bloode]

31. My homophobia is trivial.

In it's effect of homosexuals at any rate. Yes homosexuals make me nervous, yes i avoid social contact with homosexuals. On the other hand i am all for homosexual rights, i have stood up for homosexuals many times. I just feel people should respect people for who they are. If that had been the prevailing attitude when i was growing up, i would not have the complex i have now.

My homophobia hurts me more than anyone else. I have to live with knowing it's a personal weakness, and my constant struggle to reconcile it.

Many sides to homophobia. Oddly enough some of us are on your side.

[Caoimhe]

36. You can get counseling to deal with your fear

There are many wonderful GLBT folks that you are missing out on having friendships with because of your fear. I was raised in an extremely homophobic home, I remember being told that all gays should be gunned down. What changed my world view was getting to know several homosexual people who happened to be just like me, in every way but their sexual orientation. Finding out that they are simply human, just like my straight friends, went a long way to lifting that veil of fear and nervousness that I once felt. No better, no worse, just different. Differences are what make us all unique.

[William Bloode]

43. No counseling for sure!

Last time i went to counseling they locked me away for 8wks. It's the truth!

The more i work on it the better i get. I have often thought of looking for places to hang out to get to know some GLBT folk. Face the fear ya know. I am just so afraid i would come off Like George on Seinfeld when he was trying to prove he liked black people.

I was abused young by what i know now as a pedophile. I had it confused with homosexual for years. This action also made me wonder when i was young if the act had in fact made me homosexual. It vexed me greatly for a long time. I never knew any opinion of homosexuality but a negative one. With the locals it was an abomination, and in prison "Punks"(homosexuals) were bottom level people, traded like commodities for cigs and candy bars. I think it's a miracle i made as much progress as i have.

[ThomCat]

46. One of the most respectable posts on the topic.

:)

[William Bloode]

49. Thanks.

:toast:

[Morgana LaFey]

52. I applaud you

That's a VERY courageous post, and I think it's also very courageous for you to be that self-reflective and that honest with yourself. I really do. I also applaud you for the work you're doing on yourself. Good luck with that. Good luck to us all for that. You're waaaaaay ahead of a good bunch of people at DU.

[uppityperson]

32. no. eom

[Caoimhe]

33. Heck no

I forget what the movie was with the two guys saying "You know how I know you're gay?" over and over to eachother but it pissed me off so much I turned it off and told my husband if he wanted to watch it he'd have to do it when I was out of the house. This straight guy mocking other straight guys for appearing/acting/etc gay is blatant homophobia and people would be outraged if it were mocking African Americans. We have to speak out when we see such idiocy and call it what it is... hate.

I found the commercial tasteless and disgusting. Frankly, all the threads about how whiny people are for being offended need to be wrapped up in astroturf and duct tape and shoved down the various posters throats. Ok, that was uncalled for. I don't advocate violence, but I am getting tired of this constant crap piling up right here on my favorite forum. We are supposed to be the compassionate ones, not the ones who get giggles from mocking people because they are different than us.

just sayin...

[Karenina]

34. NO. Unacknowledged "otherism" is not trivial.

It is the basis for the horrid pickle we find ourselves in today. The lack of empathy, the unwillingness to embrace ALL as members of our human community, the "Fuck 'em" attitude contribute to our mutually assured self-destruction.

On words and images that cause pain:

"articulate" It's a compliment!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x125364

"snickers" Ha ha.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x131338

"retards" Oh THAT'S SO GAY!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x6149719

On unacknowledged racism which applies to ALL "otherism":
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=133123

[Cerridwen]

35. No! And as others here have reminded me (as I read the posts)

neither is the hatred which it generates.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

38. Heterocentric (probably a more fitting word than homophobia)

But taking the dictionary meaning of EGOcentric and apply sexuality:

2. having little or no regard for interests, beliefs, or attitudes other than one's own; self-centered: an heterocentric person; heterocentric demands upon the time and patience of others.


Hmmmmm... sure doesn't sound trivial to me.

[blonndee]

39. Oh wow, I like that term.

Never heard of it before, but it sure is an apt description of too many attitudes and posts today and yesterday.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

42. Actually I'm technically 'homo-phobic' by literal

.. definition of the fear of the same! Could you imagine how boring life would be if everything was the SAME day in and day out, etc etc? <wink>

It's funny how people argue over the word homophobic to mean 'fear' of gays when it goes beyond fear to irrational hatred or mistrust. But then again, we have a lot of phrases that don't make sense if used literally.. ever 'caught' a bus?

I heard the Heterocentric term used by some professor in a show about 10 years ago. It's just never caught on.

[Morgana LaFey]

50. What you're missing -- and you're not alone --

is that that hatred is DUE to the fear of homosexuals. Fear of being like them or having others think you're like them, fear of being "hit on" by them, fear of being around them, fear of their sexual practices, fear of all things homo.

That's why it's called homophobia.

That FEAR then generates discrimination. And various kinds of violence (and all discrimination IS violent, tho not all violence is physical assault).

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

79. Oh I get the 'phobia' part.....

... now explain to me the root 'homo' which means 'same' or 'man' has been changed to mean 'gay'? <wink>

[slackmaster]

98. Fear does not always lead to hatred

Hatred does not always lead to discrimination.

[Porcupine]

53. Total climate disruption vs. a Snickers ad.

Apparently homophobia is more important than total climate disruption.

So this summer when a massive hurricane is bearing down on the US we can say....."Hey, we fought the good fight on homophobia!!"

All the posts here forced me to watch the snickers ad-3075 views @ 5:06 PST

Judy Shepard: The Snickers ad campaign encourages hate-1014 views

Game Over On Global Warming? Interesting Article From LA Times Notes Some Of The Numbers- 583 views

Methane Hydrate Release Now Underway In Beaufort Sea Pingoes- 359 views

Yeah, we here at DU have our priorities straight. I mean everyone is hurt by homophobia while only a few of us are dependent upon a stable climate for our continued survival.

:wtf:

[mondo joe]

56. It beats the shit out of another John Edwards House disruption. NT

[Duncan Grant]

58. I can handle the complexities of many troubling issues -- can you?

I think I understand your intention with this post but it seems to trivialize some of the very real concerns of gay people. Your sarcasm at the end of your post (coupled with the :wtf: emoticon) chapped my ass a bit.

Just my .02 cents...
edit: subject line

[Porcupine]

64. It's deck chairs on the Titanic

Yes, homophobia is real and a very serious problem if you are actually gay or even appear to be gay. On the other hand singing kum-ba-yah with that little fraction of the flat earth society that still doesn't accept gays might not be the most pressing issue on the agenda.

The remaining members of the flat earth society aren't listening to the likes of us.

Did you notice that winter didn't start till mid-January for most of the nation? Remember Katrina; the people in New Orleans sure do. Do ya think that might require a little more attention from the tiny fraction of us that are politically active at all?

But those snickers ads are sooo offensive.

[Duncan Grant]

70. Seems to me there's room for it all here in GD.

I (and many, many gay people) have a comprehensive understanding of what is at stake. Please don't patronize us with the kum-ba-yah rhetoric and the trivialization of our lives.

I'm living under the thumb of a pretty oppressive culture - and I'm very pissed off about it. On the rare occasion that GD lites up around this issue, I enjoy participating. If you're disappointed in the hierarchy of injustices around here, no one is stopping you from starting threads about the truly serious issues that need our attention.

I hear the "hide thread" feature is a good choice for some DUers; it's certainly better than taking a squat in a GLBT thread while glibly tossing around the :wtf: emoticon.

Please pardon us for taking up your valuable forum space with our snickers bar. :eyes:

[mondo joe]

74. Y'know what? I don't necessarily agree with some other gays about the ad, buy your attitude

is a fucking disgrace.

Don't tell me what's pressing and not on my agenda. Because I'll tell you what: gay issues ARE the most pressing issue on the agenda for me.

When there are gay people being killed for who they are, or being denied access to their spouse in a hospital, or homeless because their parents hate them, yes that is the number one fucking priority.

[Bluebear]

61. I have posted many threads on global warming.

Pardon me for posting a few over the last 24 hours concerning my human rights.

As you say :wtf:

[Porcupine]

65. The OP was about perspective and relative value.

I pointed out that I am in the minority. If the majority wants to whistle it's way past the graveyard it's no sweat off my back.

[mondo joe]

54. It is not, though there are more and less trivial aspects of it.

As a gay man, I am personally less concerned with acts that are simply offensive than acts which impede equal rights for gays.

[RetroLounge]

57. No. Never.

eom

RL

[JerseygirlCT]

63. Not at all

No hate like that is trivial. People's lives and rights are at stake -- that means it affects every one of us, gay or straight.

[KamaAina]

66. Is bigotry a trivial matter? N. O.

'Cause that's what we're talking about here.

[Rabrrrrrr]

67. Absolutely not. It's a highly critical and important matter.

I think it's even more important than the issue of racism.

[and-justice-for-all]

68. I think its a personnal issue....

...Those who take hateful action against Gay people have in fact recentment against that person because they have to supress what it is they desire. They can not satisfy there sexual needs, for several reasons, so they do the opposite which is aggression.

[sundog]

71. nope

you rock terry :)

[ScreamingMeemie]

73. It is the most accepted form of hatred today.

It is, in my opinion, the domestic issue that we should concern ourselves most with at this point in time. It has gone one, again accepted, far too long, affecting far too many and it's time it stops. I am saddened that we have so much work to do within our own party to emphasize this.

[demrabble]

89. I Think It Is More Acceptable To

In my view, it is far more acceptable to hate fat people -- and to ridicule them for being fat -- than it is to hate gay people or make fun of them.

The mere fact that we actually discuss homophobia, while treating hatred of fat people as somehow normal, makes my point.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

76. No. And it really pisses me off when people say things like,

"Now is not the time to be pushing for same-sex marriage amendments."
Because the only way to end oppression is to address it immediately. Otherwise the time will never be right.

[mnhtnbb]

91. Love your anteater.

[mnhtnbb]

93. self-delete Posted wrong place..

[GoddessOfGuinness]

101. Thanks!

:hi:

[Unvanguard]

77. No fucking way.

Severe homophobia, of the Fred Phelps variety, is the worst, but what a lot of people don't realize is just how harmful and marginalizing the effect of constant rather mild homophobia can be.

No, it's not "funny", and no, we should not "loosen up." It's disgusting and hurtful, and it must be fought at every opportunity.

[donheld]

78. I think you mean "Are civil rights a trivial matter?"

To which I say never, no way, not in 1 million years.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BoneDaddy]

83. I don't think it is a trivial matter

but I do think that there are many more pressing issues that affect people in a more direct way than gay rights.

For me it is not a top priority but it is an important issue, as I have had loved ones (friends and family) who are gay and lesbian who have had some real bad experiences. It didn't become important to me until college when I met and became friends with alot of gay and lesbian folks. I was part of Larry Kramer's play, The Normal Heart where I saw the horror of the early AIDS epidemic. Now, for many people it is not important because it isn't something they experience, nor does it affect them or the ones they love.

So many issues hit home for people in general that gay rights is not even a blip on their radar screen.

So the answer for me falls in the middle, but I think for most it doesn't even make the top 10, they are more concerned with their own personal survival, the survival of the planet, the threat of war and the debacle in Iraq, removing the Bush taint from our democracy, political corruption, and so on.

The problem I think that occurs is that the gay community does not realize that people don't really know their experience and unfortunatley many in the gay community when faced with this express themselves in hostile fashion. Do I understand it, of course, as I got outraged about how we can still live in a world that is this backwards, but does it ultimately garner empathy, compassion or understanding? My experience is no.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

84. No.

[BuyingThyme]

87. Only when people are unwilling to discuss it honestly.

[slackmaster]

92. Homophobia per se is merely a state of mind

Phobia = Fear; a private, personal feeling. Or it can mean a pathological, irrational fear. A homophobe is simply someone who is afraid of homosexuals.

In and of itself, fear is a problem only for the person who experiences it.

If you choose to concern yourself with what is going on inside of another person's head, that seems kind of pointless to me but I wouldn't go so far as to judge for you whether or not it is trivial.

[mnhtnbb]

95. How can it be trivial when a huge segment of Americans want to change the Constitution

to legitimize their fears and deny rights to the object of their fears?

[slackmaster]

96. That's not phobia, that's discrimination

Not at all the same thing.

[northernsoul]

97. Nothing that is the proximate cause of such much suffering is trivial

In other words: Hell No!

[Blue-Jay]

99. May I live long enough for homophobia to become a trivia question.

:pals:

[terrya]

103. I hope so, also.

:pals:

[noonwitch]

100. It depends on the situation

I think making a big deal out of it is equally problematic. It comes down to the whole "I'm rubber and you're glue" thing that you learn as a kid. Just because someone says hateful things about you doesn't make those things true. But if you dwell upon those things too much, you give power to the words or statements made. It doesn't matter if that person is calling you a "faggot" or a "fat bitch". It only affects you if you let it.

Actions are different than words. If someone calls you a "fag" and then punches you, well that's a whole different matter.

[salin]

104. I *wish* it and other forms of bigotry were trivial - in the sense

that instances were so very rare that they were considered trivial. Sadly, that is not the case. So in answer to your question - no it is not a trivial matter.

[marmar]

105. I think it's hard for people who aren't personally impacted by homophobia...

or racism, or sexism or any -ism to fully appreciate that you can't just "shrug it off" and laugh about it - it needs to be dealt with.
And before college, I probably would have been one of the people who thought that those outraged over the Snickers commercial were overreacting. But as I watched what one of my best friends in the world had to do every day just to keep his life in some order - hiding his orientation from his right-wing religious family, not eating for a week worried that his sister had seen the "Pride" posterboard he'd placed on his desk at the college newspaper office and would tell his father, fearing that his co-workers at the state park he worked at in the summer would reject or even harm him if they knew who he really was (and listening to their homophobic jokes) - I saw how un-trivial a matter it really is.

[sendero]

106. I don't know about homophobia...

.... but I believe GLBTs should have the same rights as everyone else.

It may come as some surprise, but there never was and never will be a right to not be offended.

[Left Is Write]

107. No.