I wish some DU members were 1/10th as concerned about global warming as they are about impeachment

[Harper_is_Bush]

just sayin'.

And please save the "If we get him impeached then we can forward the cause of global warming" answer. We need effort and attention NOW, and you are consumed with impeachment.

To be clear...I have nothing against impeachment. I won't be answering the inevitable "WHY SHOULDN'T WE IMPEACH?" responses, because I'm not against it.

I just wish global warming was as hot a topic here as impeachment is.

[rodeodance]

1. well, maybe if we got the impeachment over with, they would learn?

[rodeodance]

2. I can mulittask

[Harper_is_Bush]

7. Then do so, please. n/t

[Alexander]

22. How do you know she isn't?

You assume way too much.

We know you don't want Gore to run and that you don't think Bush should be impeached.

Just don't expect to be Mr. Popularity here with views like those.

[Harper_is_Bush]

45. What? You are way out of line with that BS....not the first time though.

I remember you. I critisized the fixation on Gore running and made some good points about why he would think he can serve his cause (global warming, in case you didn't know) better by not running, and you went ape-shit-crazy and started accusing me of having a dark agenda. You came just shy of calling me a freeper.

Now you're at it again.

[Alexander]

75. You assume someone can't be for impeachment and the environment.

You did not know this person from Adam, or what they have done regarding impeachment and the environment. And you make an attack based on something you don't know.

I call you out on it. Somehow it's "BS". Whatever.

"I remember you. I critisized the fixation on Gore running and made some good points about why he would think he can serve his cause (global warming, in case you didn't know) better by not running, and you went ape-shit-crazy and started accusing me of having a dark agenda."

You're anti-impeachment and anti-Gore in 2008. Isn't it totally obvious, based on a lot of posts here, that most DUers do not agree with you on those points?

You paint all Gore supporters with the same broad brush - there are just as many, if not more, valid reasons why Gore could serve the cause better if he were president. Many of us like Gore precisely because of his work on climate change - but of course, you can't grant us the benefit of the doubt.

"You came just shy of calling me a freeper."

Ah, but I didn't use the "f" word. Since you apparently keep track of my posts so well, maybe you noticed I'm not shy about calling out freepers. The fact that I didn't use that word means something - that I don't think you're a freeper, and that maybe you're just paranoid.

[BlooInBloo]

9. Up with mulittasking!

[IChing]

3. I have posted for years in the Environmental/Energy forum

Have You?

[defendandprotect]

25. If Environmental Issues are not part of "General Discussion" . . .

then that probably is a problem for educating DUs . . .
It should be part of "general" . . .

And, you should see info on Global Warming as often as possible --

People don't always have time to traverse from one forum to another --
too time consuming.

[IChing]

71. That is proabley why the food forum was so popular

on the Duzy.......

[Vincardog]

4. WEll DimSon has been actively subverting the Global Warming story too. Impeaching helps on both

[WilliamPitt]

5. If we get him impeached then we can forward the cause of...

...oops.

Never mind.



You make a good point.

[Xipe Totec]

6. Wadayatawkinabout?

I came to the conclusion that global warming was a real threat 15 years ago; That's when science magazine did an expose on the the subject.

I took the threat seriously and moved my family from Texas to Massachusetts, ten years ago, from sea level to 100 ft elevation.

You bet I took it seriously.

[Harper_is_Bush]

10. I'm happy for your family. Now, how about everyone else? n/t

[Xipe Totec]

14. When they wake up, they can act

if they don't...

[Harper_is_Bush]

You mean, they should all think just about themselves and their family? n/t

[Xipe Totec]

21. If we all did, we wouldn't be in this mess now, would we? nt

[AndyTiedye]

24. 2080' Elevation Here, but Close Enough to the Ocean to Get the Cooling Fog

and I'm already using CF bulbs everywhere, except where I have converted to LEDs,
and I drive a hybrid (as little as possible).

[Xipe Totec]

29. Excellent!

Wish I could be there; Mass is the next best thing.

If it gets worse, I'll move to Maine.

[AndyTiedye]

53. We Moved to CA from MA in 92

We used to come out here for Grateful Dead concerts, and California felt more like home than home did, so we had to move here eventually.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. That's part of the reason I'm for impeachment.

How can you be serious about global warming and not demand impeachment of George W. Bush?

[Cha]

11. Tou-freakin'-

CHE!

[Phredicles]

38. Damn straight: Does anyone seriously believe global warming can be dealt

with while the Petroleum Monkeys are in the White House.

Here's what I suggest: Concerned Canadians can work on getting rid of their idiot lunatic Commander Guy, and we'll do likewise for ours.

[Lint Head]

12. You can't have one without the other.

These pricks need to be impeached and thrown into jail. Until they are gone nothing will change. First things first.

[cally]

13. I agree....everytime anyone tells me or posts

that there number one priority is ending the war I just cringe. We have a global crisis hitting us and a war seems small in comparison to the impending destruction we will face.

[Harper_is_Bush]

15. Yes, thankyou. That is an astute comment. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

82. Yes nearly a million deaths in a war is so trivial!!

[JuniperLea]

16. We need national support for this...

We need our government behind us in order to make any difference... we can't do that until BushWad is out of office, and he takes his sharpshooter with him.

[Raine]

17. THANK YOU

for saying this. I can't understand the lack of concern about global warming the very existance of our planet is at stake. I see NO single issue that is more important than this one.

[Harper_is_Bush]

46. THANK YOU ALSO!

Global warming is THE issue, and smart DU'ers should make it THE issue here, over and above impeachment.

[earthlover]

18. Hot topic? Hell, it seems to be the ONLY topic at times....

I'd be willing to bet any amount of money that this thread will be about impeachment instead of global warming.

How ironic.

[defendandprotect]

19. I'll be happy to make GW/Climate Crisis a "hot topic" here --

but we can do both things --

And as you saw recently from the Surgeon General who claimed to have been "gagged" by the administration on health issues . . . obviously we have a total government being "gagged" -- including on Global Warming.

The removal of Bush -- even a strong threat of removal of Bush -- would be helpful in ungagging our agencies and improving government in all aspects.

The popularity of Gore here confuses me -- he's against impeachment !!!!
He bowed out of a fight for the 2000 election, offering no leadership against the fascist rally by the GOP at Miami-Dade Election HQs; nor any comment since on the outrageous decision by the Supreme Court. Given a last chance, Gore did not stand up against the decision to make Bush president.

Today -- Gore is educating us on Global Warming -- but he does not speak of nationalizing our natural resources and returning control of oil to the people.

Gore doesn't discuss Electric Cars -- neither does Nancy Pelosi who is from California and certainly knows that there were 4,000 -- dearly beloved -- electric cars on the highways there for more than five years!!!

ALL CRUSHED . . .

Global Warming is compounded also by overpopulation -- now near 6.8 billion?
By pollution of our planet -- air, water, soil -- and where has "Earth Day" gone????

So there is a lot to work on as we try to overturn the suicidal nature of capitalism.

[melody]

20. Impeachment is an ongoing battle that impacts everything

I'm involved in both.

Now, where do you stand on the things I consider to be more important than other
things you are involved in? ')

[TahitiNut]

23. Hey! I've been running the air conditioner with the doors open. Doesn't that count?

It's amazing to me how some folks can survey the entire gamut of other people's activities so comprehensively and accurately. I wonder where that's taught?

[Harper_is_Bush]

28. I'm not judging anyone elses activities, I'm judging the priorities on DU.

But in any event, loved the sarcasm. Used to seeing it from sources of denial, but it's much appreciated anyway.

[John Q. Citizen]

69. And posting here arguning is stopping global warming? Or do you have any other ideas and

suggestions?

[Throwing Stones]

26. I'm 1/11th as concerned; But I'll gladly pay you 1/109th concern on Tuesday for an impeachment today

[demgurl]

27. Can't speak for everyone, but........

I am working on both. I work on the global warming part for me and my family along with trying to educate others. We are looking at what our next car will be in the next year or so and the vehicles we are looking at are all earth friendly. But I am also very adamant about getting rid of Bush and have been emailing and calling my reps about that as well.

[mondo joe]

30. DU is a primarily politically oriented board.

Not surprisingly, politics is topic #1.

[Evergreen Emerald]

31. I always hate reprimand threads and holier-than-thou threads.

You have no idea what my "concerns" are.

[kiteinthewind]

32. No kidding. How self-righteous.

[Art_from_Ark]

34. Especially seeing that it comes from someone

who, as a Canadian, doesn't have a dog in the impeachment fight.

[Harper_is_Bush]

40. Yes, nobody beyond your border cares about Bush and the effect he's had in the world.

My God, what a narrow view.

[Art_from_Ark]

50. The narrow view is yours

You do not have to live under the thumb of this administration, yet you feel obliged to pontificate to those of us who do.

[Harper_is_Bush]

37. Really? Well, ironically, it's not about you and YOUR "concerns".

Talk about being self-involved and holier-than-thou.

I'm bitching about the general focus on DU. YOU and YOUR concerns are not relavent to the point. sheesh.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

39. Are you concerned about global warming?

[Help me help Earth]

33. I know what you mean.

Even if we cant get him out, the evil one will be gone in a year and the healing can begin. Global Warming is not going ANYWHERE without a sincere effort on all our parts to fight it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Sapphire Blue]

35. I feel similarly about poverty, homelessness, budget cuts, Darfur, Iraqi refugees, slavery,

... human trafficking, child soldiers... Lord, I could go on & on... but it just doesn't seem to make a difference.

[Turn CO Blue]

60. Rock on Sapphire. You're a true progressive and I appreciate

your threads.

[AndyTiedye]

36. Most of Us Are Doing More About Global Warming than Impeachment

The reason there is so much talk about impeachment is that all we can do about impeachment IS talk!

Reducing global warming mostly comes down to conservation, and we're doing that.

The only thing we can do for impeachment is talk about it, so there is a lot of talking about impeachment here.
We are also talking to our Congressmen and Senators about it, and the discussion here helps us refine our arguments.
The other reason we may rant about impeachment here so much is that we're getting really frustrated at the lack of traction for it on Capitol Hill,
and some of us are wondering if our representatives are working under some sort of duress.

The arguments as to whether or not we should attempt impeachment account for a great deal of the volume on that topic.

There really isn't a lot of controversy about global warming here, so there are not a lot of posts arguing about it.
Those of us who are concerned about it are acting to reduce our energy/carbon use, so we are not feeling quite
so frustrated — until we see what Bush**Cheney are doing to make the problems worse!

[Lilith Velkor]

41. I just wish I had the mass mind-reading powers a lot of DUers think they have.

I'd be fuckin' rich.

[Harper_is_Bush]

42. It's not hard, really. Just pay attention to the topics being posted.. n.t

[Lilith Velkor]

49. Trolls are mindless. They don't count. n/t

[Evergreen Emerald]

43. actually, you said, "I wish some members..." that is more than

"general focus." And as part of the DU community, I want to say that I believe you will not find a group of people more dedicated to the cause of global warming. The night of Live Earth, was amazing on DU.

[Harper_is_Bush]

47. Yes, meaning that in general most aren't. The topic of impeachment generates the most interest. nt

[Evergreen Emerald]

66. whatever

your sarcastic responses are getting tiresome.

[UTUSN]

44. Hey!!1 We're "concerned" about a LOT of things!!1 n/t

[scarletwoman]

48. Yeah? Well, I wish more DUers were hip to the whole

corporate/military/banking/drug running complex of financial elites who are intent on commodifying and owning every damn thing on this planet; including all the sources of fresh water, the entire biosphere and and our very own DNA.

Changing your light bulbs without changing the whole damn system isn't going to do jack to turn global warming around. It's going to take a people's revolution -- out there in the REAL world.

DU is just a big chat room. NO ONE gets exclusive attention on THEIR pet topic. If you want action, you have to organize -- not gripe on friggin' chat room.

sw

[Harper_is_Bush]

51. Yes, global warming is "MY" topic. sure thing.

Everyone can decide what's the most important issue for humanity. That's freedom.

[Jacobin]

52. Here's a cure for both problems

Once we attack Iran, the conflagration that will result among China, Russia, the US and the middle east will destroy the world's economies, leading to a drastic reduction in the use of fossil fuels, thus insuring that greenhouse gases will fall dramatically.

But, then you might have a bit of a nuclear winter to deal with.

[scarletwoman]

54. By golly, you've hit on the perfect solution! Bomb Iran! (nt)

[earthlover]

59. Or....we could spend our time stopping Iran before it starts

Lesseee.....on the one hand, we could decrease by a few months Bush's term

On the other hand, we could prevent the chaos and disaster of going to war in Iran....

Lessee...let's impeach.

k....

Response by Bush: bomb, bomb bomb...bomb bomb Iran.

Response by Bush: we can't switch horses in the middle of the bullshit, or words to that effect

Response by Bush: we can't be divided by impeachment, that would hurt us against the terrists. Impeach, and they will put a mushroom shaped cloud over NYC....

Dang those weak on terrorist democrats...they divide the country when the terrorists are trying to kill innocent women and children and we are at war against terrorists in iran and iraq and....more bs...more bs....

So how you gonna prevent THAT?

[Marrah_G]

83. Well the nuclear winter could bring back the glaciers!!

Win, Win!



The scary part is that there is probably some idiot out there who actually thinks it is a good idea.

[chknltl]

55. First: Stop the firebug, Second: Put out fire

There are a great many issues facing our planet, Global Warming being but one. Sadly efforts to address those issues by Americans must have those efforts attenuated through the bush administration.
Global Warming is high on bushco's list, the list which is titled: "Block all efforts to remedy"

Sorry, I'll disagree with Al Gore here, I am pushing FOR impeachment. I do so BECAUSE of my concerns over Global Warming. (Among other critical issues.)

[UTUSN]

56. I'm always PISSED at threads that blame Dems FIRST!!1 n/t

[Gregorian]

57. But it's a subject we can't talk about.

I've even had a post deleted about it. I continue to mention it, but people poo-poo it as not being the problem. I'll say it again, but I'm sure it'll meet with the same disagreement and denial. It's the population STUPID.

Until we control the population, all of the problems we are seeing will continue to survive and thrive. All of them. From corporate power, to global warming, to water and food and disease troubles.

We're going in two directions with respect to resources and population. Two opposing directions. And that will make the problem come to fruition just that much quicker.

Stop having kids. Period. That is the solution whether you like it or disagree with it.

[Bjorn Against]

58. Right now a certain somebody would veto any decent bill dealing with global warming

Don't think that Bush and global warming are unrelated.

[earthlover]

61. and that is why we need to concentrate on making 08 a transformational election

a dem pres and a massive majority in congress, so we can indeed do something.

This stuff about impeachment is small potatoes. A drop in the bucket.

We need to be preparing for the election of our lifetimes.

INstead, what appears to be happening is that, instead of being united...we are warring amongst ourselves over a side-issue.

Bush is not on the ballot in 08, folks. Isn't it about time we congratulated each other...everyone hates bush now....and move on to winning in 08?

Why keep obsessing on Bush? Bush is toast. Bush is a lame duck.

The future is ours. If we want it to be. Or we could just get side tracked and try to get rid of Bush.

I have no doubts that during October 08 we are going to hear the same folks clammoring for impeaching Bush.....

So much water under the bridge for them...but not for us. We CAN work for change. Meaningful change.

Instead of focussing on Bush.

[Bjorn Against]

62. A lame duck that happens to be a criminal...

and is currently destroying our nation. He is ignoring our laws and seizing executive power in an unprecedented way. If we allow him to continue without facing serious legal consequences then what message are we sending to future leaders? And what message are we sending to the electorate if we refuse to prosecute a known criminal just because we are afraid of the electoral consequences for doing so? Impeachment needs to happen, and then the man needs to be turned over to the Hague.

[earthlover]

79. if you succeed in impeaching and convicting Bush, after it is over in probably a year.....

of hearings.....would be to decrease Bush's term by only a few months. If we blow this election, an election that up until now we have had every indication we have a good chance of winning, we will get 4 more years of Republican rule, maybe 8. If we work hard and make this a TRANSFORMATIONAL election, we could change the balance of power for a generation! If we work it from the ground up, at the grass roots level, this could happen. But nobody even seems to be pondering this anymore! It seems all about impeachment, as if it would really make that much difference. Impeachment is really small potatoes.

What we are going to wind up doing is dividing ourselves over this issue. And this division could very well help the republicans, and make major gains in 08 impossible.

[Perky]

63. ooohhhhh

[KharmaTrain]

64. Cause You Can't Impeach A Senate

Even if magic fairies waved wands and booshie and cheney were gone tomorrow, there are still Repugnicans gumming up the works on all types of legislation.

The solution is to work in electing environmentally-friendly Democrats in '08...including a bigger Senate majority...that can pass out a lot of long overdue environmental legislation.

[MLFerrell]

65. If we don't stop that crazy fuck then there won't be a globe to warm.

Not one with humans anyway...

[ecstatic]

68. Bingo! nt

[Beam Me Up]

67. Which do you think is the more likely to occur in the next 18 months?

An economic and geopolitical upheaval -- such as war with Iran -- that could end up costing the lives of untold tens to hundreds of thousands of people not to mention billions upon billions of dollars due to the polices of Bush/Cheney -- or an equivalent event arising from purely ecological causes? We KNOW these mofos want to bomb Iran and are looking for the provocation to do it. That is "ok" with you? Do you have any idea what the consequences of widening the ME war would be? You think potential long-term ecological crisis is more of an immanent threat to our security than THEIR reckless foreign policy?

No thank you. I'll keep my priorities right where they are.

[orleans]

70. WE ARE! n/t

[mikelgb]

72. sane global warming policy begins with impeachment

[walldude]

73. I'm a little confused...

this is a progressive board, why would you assume people here aren't doing all they can about both issues? Just because there aren't 50 threads on it a day doesn't mean DU'ers aren't doing their part to save the planet in other areas. There were plenty of Global Warming threads the weekend of the concert and when another development comes along there will be plenty more. In the meantime people are dying in Iraq, and Cheney is pushing for an attack on Iran. The line needs to be drawn... now before it's too late.

[Senator]

74. Size Doesn't Matter -- Impeachment is MORE Important

Sure, it might seem at first glance that "end of the world" is more important than "end of the U. S. of A." (which is what failure to impeach represents). It's certainly a "bigger" problem. But size really doesn't matter.

Impeachment is about "who we are" -- and that's not merely an idealistic "reflection of our core values" -- it has real, tangible impact on what we are able to actually DO. As I was just explaining to someone trying to claim that "ending the war" was a more important "issue" than impeachment:

That said, there are things more important than "ending this war."

First and foremost on the list is acknowledging and stopping the torture and war crimes -- then prosecuting to the fullest extent. If we do not -- as a nation -- publicly reject and redress these atrocities, then we've got far bigger problems than this so-called war on puppet-show terrorist zealots. And that means bushcheney & minions on the hook, in disgrace, perhaps even literally bundled off to The Hague for trial and punishment. Impeachment is a necessary component of this redress.

Each day of failure to impeach is another day of torture "sanctioned" by the American People.

Until the Dems were given the power in January we had the "rogue regime" to blame. There was the anomoly of a cabal that stole their way to power and implemented an illegitimate agenda through secrecy and lawlessness. We were able to claim that it was not really "America Herself" that had become such an ugly actor on the world stage.

But then the clock started ticking on the possible redemption of Our National Soul. The power to formally object (impeach) in the name of the People is the only real power the electorate was able to wrest away from the neofascists. As time passes without that objection, the cement hardens on our "new image" in the world.

Impeachment -- even without removal -- sends the urgent message that this is not who we are. That Americans intend to return to their place as exemplars of the power of freedom, courage, and hope.

Without it, we will continue to become -- like China and Russia and Iran -- another faux-democratic power player. One that can no longer be accurately assessed as an honest peace broker, trusted trading partner, or safe investment environment. Because the power of US public opinion -- as an object of respect/fear and a court of last resort -- is quickly washing away. The resulting damage to both our security and our economic health will be unimaginable.

You can add to this "damage list" our environmental health -- and thus, that of the globe's. Or really any specific "issue" -- whose outlook is immeasurably more hopeful if and when America is recycled back from its current "once-great," rogue status.

Only Impeachment ... can begin the renewal.

It IS our positive agenda.

It is our ONLY moral, patriotic option.

-----

[AntiFascist]

76. Cheney, Bush and Rice are all former oil executives...

if we can, um, get them all to resign then it would do wonders for the cause of ending global warming. Also, if President Pelosi could push the cause of a hydrogen-based economy, or something like it, it could also solve a hell of a lot of economic problems. (there, I didn't even mention impeachment).

[AndyTiedye]

77. Nuclear War Would Stop Global Warming, But We Don't Want to Stop It THAT WAY!

The mad cowboys intend to Iran!

[Warren DeMontague]

78. I know. With all the gum-chewing that goes on here, obviously none of us are capable of walking.

Yawn.

[MadHound]

80. Hey, some of us can walk and chew gum at the same time

I write my reps about impeachment, among other things, on a regular basis. I also ride a vehicle that gets 100mpg, grow my own food and food for others(organic, heirloom), putting in drip irrigation, putting in wind power, setting up to run the farm equipment on biodiesel, among other things. What are you doing?

[Nunyabiz]

81. If we didn't have a never elected treasonous war criminal in the oval office

then Global Warming would be a hotter topic.
To me NOTHING is more important than Impeachment because (government wise) nothing is going to happen to get the USA on track to fight Global Warming until this POS is in prison.

[endarkenment]

84. I wish peaches were crunchy frogs. nt

[mwb970]

85. Of the two, impeachment is MUCH more urgent.

America is under attack, NOW, today, by its own government, as it has been for over 6 years. This vile bunch of criminal "leaders" must be removed before real progress can be made on ANY issue.

[eppur_se_muova]

86. Opposing Gee Dubya is the SAME as opposing GW. nt

[LWolf]

87. Those 2 goals are not competing.

I can be equally concerned for both; support for one does not subtract from support for the other.

Personally, I wish people were as passionate about getting rid of NCLB as they are about their favorite tv shows and sports.