Chris Hedges: "This one could take them all down

[Skip_In_Boulder]

Run time: 06:58 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj8UlxhfJLw   Posted on YouTube: October 17, 2011 By YouTube Member: munderlarkst Views on YouTube: 2658   Posted on DU: October 18, 2011 By DU Member: Skip_In_Boulder Views on DU: 17400

 
Chris Hedges: "What happens is in all of these movements ... the foot soldiers of the elite -- the blue uniformed police, the mechanisms of control -- finally don't want to impede the movement and at that point the power elite is left defenseless

[yodermon]

1. why does chris hedges say that moveon.org is reprehensible?

tia if anyone knows.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

6. Hedges says

they haven't fought back, and he's absolutely right.

[2banon]

18. exactly.. I realized what MoveOn was all about back in 2004, absolutely worthless & co-opted

[SadPanda]

33. Not really, Moveon spent tens of millions in 2008... and its leadership is 150% liberal...

I believe he's just trying to make sure no labels are placed on the 99% movement. He even mentioned the teamsters. It's all about making sure none of this is easy to label.

[EFerrari]

40. MoveOn is not a democratic group. It's two rich people and their opinions.

[mistertrickster]

83. I tend to agree. They've done some good, but their meet ups seem

to never go anywhere. It's hard to build an organization when everything is anonymous and goes through Move.on's direction.

[MissDeeds]

99. Yep

I lost all respect for them in 2008 when they threw their support behind Obama before the primaries were over. They should have waited for the process to work itself out and then supported the candidate chosen by the voters.

[Scruffy1]

94. That's what he is saying about "liberals".

The kind of liberals who keep forgiving and forgetting, are ineffectual and condescending, and are not willing to risk anything are. When We the People are fighting for our very existence is no time for liberals.

[bluetexas]

36. agree n/t

[Xtraneous]

25. I don't know why he says that, it's a very good question...

but I know why I discarded them as legitimate in 2004 because they gladly accepted all my (very generous) donations but did nothing to fight to stop the clusterfuck we're in starting with the first- and second- appointments of BushII who didn't even win those elections.

I caught that tidbit also watching this for the first time and sent it off to some friends. After watching Chris Hedges speak so eloquently, having had experience with these types of movements and not preaching or trying to co-opt them as a journalistic opportunity, I have to say that, against my better judgement (of not knowing the background of why he said that about MoveOn), I fully trust the guy.

[Jim_Shorts]

27. MoveOn is trying to co-opt OWS

I think Chris is talking about this:
http://truth-out.org/moveonorg-and-friends-attempt-co-opt-occupy-wall-street-movement/1318259708

[Remember Me]

29. VERY important article. Thanks. nt

[SleeplessinSoCal]

31. some involved with OWS disagree with Hedges re: MoveOn.org

http://occupywallst.org/forum/journalist-chris-hedges-loves-ows-calls-moveon-rep/

My experience with Move-On.org has been very positive. In Orange County, CA many volunteers showed up to help campaigns when called upon. They turn out at war protests. The membership is what I have run into. And they are engaged and have been since 1998.

In no way do they seem to merit being called "reprehensible". I've only observed them being of assistance in the OWS effort.

[zinnisking]

53. In 2004, after I gave them money, a MoveOn volunteer was calling my house semi-daily

Not asking for money, but trying to get me out of my comfort zone, and into the GOTV effort.

She was polite (and articulate) but persistent. I amired her for it. I admire MoveOn too, mostly.

IIRC, when Dem Party volunteers called, they only asked for money.

I know squat about this squabble but I'm guessing Hedges has good reason.

[flamingdem]

87. agree, Hedges is about Hedges nt

[Overseas]

113. Hedges is a brilliant, generous, principled man. It's okay if he disagrees with us on some points.

No need to trash the man because he has a few ideas you or I may disagree with.

He is a really brilliant writer and speaker with an amazing life experience as a war correspondent for many many years.

Even if I only agree with 95% of what he says, I am always inspired by him.

[stillrockin]

49. This article explains beautifully what we are up against.

[TBF]

77. So do the comments to the OP - so many defending the status quo. nt

[Slit Skirt]

54. MoveOn is NOT trying to co-opt this at all

I work for MoveOn and we are in total agreement with OWS. We support them any way we can. That is NOT the same as coopting them. MoveOn has been fighting for these same things for years. Chris's complaint is that we have not been radical enough. Similar to Green Peace and Paul Watson, which is the complaint of Paul Watson (founder of GP) about GP.

One has to realize that these articles coming out, may be an intention to divide the movement. There is nothing more than the 1% would like to see than a circular firing squad, which progressives are very good at. The 1% would do anything to stop this movement, and they have the money to buy off media and journalists.

I know this is not Chris Hedge's intentions. Chris wants us to be more radical and he states that. But in this thread an article is posted that supposedly "supports" Chris Hedge's statement. I would suggest that they are actually two different animals

I love Chris Hedges and for the most part agree with him almost all the time. The article on the other hand...well, I say show me the proof. MoveOn has 5 million members..the 1% has a motivated reason to not want MO to support or join forces with OWS

[cui bono]

65. I don't know about that...

Did you know about this? Why "clicktivists" using the OWS slogan? I keep hearing negative things about MoveOn and this one seems to fall into the coopting analysis.

Exhibit A: On October 5, Day 19 of Occupy Wall Street, MoveOn.org sent out an email calling on clicktivists (as opposed to activists) to "Join the Virtual March on Wall Street." "The 99% are both an inspiration and a call that needs to be answered. So we're answering it today, in a nationwide Virtual March on Wall Street to support their demand for an economy that serves the many, not the few ... Join in the virtual march by doing what hundreds have done spontaneously across the web: Take your picture holding a sign that tells your story, along with the words 'I am the 99%,'" wrote Daniel Mintz of MoveOn.org.

From the Truth-out article linked above:
http://truth-out.org/moveonorg-and-friends-attempt-co-opt-occupy-wall-street-movement/1318259708

[Slit Skirt]

103. how is that coopting?

sounds like we are joining it. when all progressive movements come together as one we will win.

This is a pointless conversation.

[cui bono]

107. Did you read the whole article?

He talks about Van Jones' group running current Dems, Dems who are not necessarily doing anything about any of this now, as his "American Dream" candidates. So if he gets too involved in OWS and tries to come out and be a spokeperson of some sort, or gets "chosen" as one by the media then he swallows the movement and waters it down.

Same thing with Move-on. They have had a lot of negative things written about them already, they are apparently not really all that progressive. They are basically an organization that supports the Dems. If they, as a much more visible outfit, start using the OWS "slogan" and become looked at as one of the leading organizations affiliated with it they are going to most likely hurt it more than help it being as the right wing has painted them as extremely negative to their side of the fence.

OWS is not a movement about supporting Dems vs. Republicans. This is a movement about the people, not the left or right, and we need to unify everyone. I'm not sure Move-on glomming on in the way that they are is going to help and I think it might end up polarizing it. They need to be careful and think about what they are doing lest they alienate half of the 99%.

I don't know that's what will happen but I certainly see his point because really, what is posting a pic of yourself with 99% in it really going to change? Seems to me it's jut a way for Move-on to jump on the bandwagon to help themselves become relevant. I am wary of the clicktivist gimmick. I don't see how that's supposed to help the movement, do you?

[bread_and_roses]

57. excellent article

and all too true, alas - though it pains me to criticize Van Jones - hell, it still pains me to criticize Obama. But that article is spot-on, as the Brits say in old murder mysteries - and Chris Hedges is a truth teller.

[vanbean]

61. This is from that article, and sums it up nicely.

Indeed, many forget that before the Tea Party was an Astroturf movement funded by Armey and the Koch brothers, it was an enraged grassroots movement, led mostly by Ron Paul libertarians. Then it got co-opted and now it is a rotten pawn of corporate elites.

If Occupy Wall Street organizers are not careful, this could also be their destiny.

Act Four - Win or Be Co-Opted? That Is the Question: Occupy Wall Street, now three weeks into the occupation, now finds itself in a pivotal moment. Will the nonpartisan, anti-establishment movement allow itself to be co-opted by the Democratic Party serving powers that be, i.e. by the MoveOn.orgs and Center for American Progresses of the world, or will it remain a strong, left, independent force that grows with each passing day and strikes fear into what the late sociologist C. Wright Mills calls the power elite?

[cui bono]

64. That article needs its own OP. Will you please do that?

I don't want to go ahead with that since I got the link from you, unless you don't want to...

What this translates to, in layman's terms, is the very process of co-opting a growing movement of democratic resistance and trying to replace it with a sales pitch to go out in 2012 and vote Democrat. Jones and the Democratic Party operations in disguise, namely the likes of MoveOn.org and the Center for American Progress, are taking a page out of the Dick Armey and Koch brothers' Tea Party co-option playbook with this one.

<snip>

John Stauber is a longtime critic of organizations like MoveOn.org and Center for American Progress, and founder and former executive director of the Center for Media and Democracy as well as co-author of "Toxic Sludge Is Good for You," a book that exposes how corporations and vested interests work to co-opt movements for change. In an interview, he stated, "Don't be fooled. This will primarily be an effort to co-opt the language and energy to salvage Obama and the Dem Party. This is how you co-opt movements. The Occupy Wall Streeters are not leader oriented. Van Jones will become the voice of this in the mainstream,"

"The same thing happened to anti-war in 2007. MoveOn.org was, to the mainstream, the voice of that movement," Stauber continued. "It is easy to read between the lines. For one thing, there is no criticism of Obama in the 'Reclaim the Dream' messaging and marketing. No one with a national reputation is going to do anything to undermine his re-election efforts. There is huge money in supporting Obama and nothing but pain and punishment in not - both desperation and self interest are driving this at this point in time."

[Jim_Shorts]

75. Feel free, I'm not an expert on MoveOn

If MoveOn or any other group is trying to slide in and define what OWS stands for, it should be exposed.

For me OWS is about fundamental change, not more of the same but thats just my opinion.

[Slit Skirt]

104. watch out for conquer and divide strategies....

Be careful, There is nothing more than what MoveOn wants is to join all progressives under this growing momentum and pressure to demand what we have been fighting for. If we are smart we can pull our party strongly to the left.

We don't want to coopt...we want change..we demand it

[cui bono]

108. Chris Hedges is hardly one who would try to conquer and divide.

I think that's what Move-on needs to think about. They have been vilified by the right wing and we need ALL the 99%ers, not just half of them.

[dixiegrrrrl]

86. Excellent article....very glad you shared it.

:hi:

[cachukis]

96. The movement, however it unfolds, has to be a synthesis

of what works and doesn't. I sense that its tendrils are slithering to coagulate around a common solution somewhat like the slime mold, http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/04/science/04slime.html?src=me&ref=general , and when it is found it will be the foundation of the next societal generation. There are few leaders to understand this transformation and none yet to coalesce a strategy. The smart people will show up.

[Jim_Shorts]

100. Wooeee, you must be a microbiologist in real life

I'm starting to think that the demonstrations themselves are changing the rules of the game. The news coverage is taking on a new language and some issue polls are changing.

The skeleton of a strategy is there but it would be fine with me if the organizers don't make demands for while, let them squirm.

[Fuddnik]

59. They traded action for access.

They got to hang out with Rahm and Biden in exchange for undying support and helping quash dissent on the left.

They were good back in 2004. Then they sold out. I have nothing to do with them anymore.

[Hotler]

92. Read this

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/a_movement_too_big_to_fail_20111017

[DeSwiss]

2. There's no ''could'' about it Chris.....

...at this particular point in the space/time continuum, it's either them or us.

- K&R

[kayakjohnny]

3. Priceless.

What a soul.

[jimlup]

4. God I hope there is a chance that he is right!

That this is a movement which can really bring them down. We've taken enough shit - it is time for this but will America really support it when they discover the stakes? Or will American's freak out and go with the devil they know?

[SparkyOR]

15. Well with the extreme whipsawing of political fervor

I wouldn't be surprised to see a GOP clown take it in 2012

[jimlup]

16. Well if so then ...

Apres Moi Le Deluge! Seriously if one of the GOP clowns wins the presidency I would put my bets on a real (and God help us - possibly violent) revolution. That is unless they go full up Nazi on us. That could happen too I suppose.

God it is hard to see ... but one thing that is easy to see is that we are on our own.

[Skip_In_Boulder]

19. GOP win, not going to happen

But we need to act like it is imminent.

[Enthusiast]

44. Full Nazi?

"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater."
— Frank Zappa

[russspeakeasy]

78. Thanks for the memory..

[2banon]

22. they're all owned.

Here's Carlin summing it up:

http://youtu.be/hYIC0eZYEtI

[rhett o rick]

32. Give me an example of "extreme whipsawing of political fervor", please. nm

[SemperEadem]

46. not hardly

even without this movement, the thugs don't stand a chance. their numbers are already in the toilet--and have been for a while now. There is no redemption on their side.

[Xtraneous]

26. Like he says, these things create an unpredictable centrifugal force...

and it is genuinely knowledgeable people like Mr. Hedges who know better than any of us- we have been purposely kept out of the loop by the msm. If anything, just by him saying that, he has himself moved it a notch closer to where ever it's going to go.

[Hutzpa]

37. If this movement can get the police officers on their side

it's over, those white shirts as he said are the problem, they are the ones giving
the low ranking police officers shit and making life a living hell for them.

They get all the bribes donations and so they feel the need to
protect those funds, that is one of the major problem low ranking police officers
are faced with imo.

[Enthusiast]

43. OWS is our only hope.

When the Democratic Party had control of the government their very highest priority should have been to get the corporate money and control out of our elections and legislative process. They also should have taken serious steps to insure that our votes were uncompromised.

I remember how disappointed I was to realize the Democratic Party didn't share my priorities. Time and events have shown my concerns were the ones that should have had their focus.

[russspeakeasy]

79. The "Democrats" are typical politicians..They are for themselves

first, their moneyed masters second and their constituents are ninth.

[femrap]

5. I love all

those who are Occupying, too.

[Danse]

7. Beautiful.

You know something's up when Hedges expresses hope.

[femrap]

62. No kidding....I've been

reading Hedges for years. Every time I see his name, I read it. And now he is crying because the OWS Movement is providing the 'How' to change this horrible paradigm.

The No-Hierarchy System is Goddess-sent! I remember back in the beginning days of Feminism, it was a No-Hierarchy system that was promoted.

Finally...some hope for this pathetic Globalized world.

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[socialindependocrat]

8. We have been voting for people to represent us...

and they are all bought out by the wealthy!

No one tried to help us understand how we were getting screwed!

I've seen business holding us down since 1985.

People would say to me, "They have all the power." and "You can't fight city hall."
These people gave up without so much as a wimper of protest.

Now we have the edge.

Vote out all except for those who tried to help in some way.

Make recalls a common practice wntil we get representatives who represent the people.

The Supreme Court is a major failure. They need to be brought to justice for atricities against the people!

All this time they talk about shifting wealth when this is what they have been doing since the 1980s.

Now, the middle class doesn't have the money to rebuild the economy.

They have been exposed! Where were the ethics committees and where were the oversight committees????!!!!!

The corporate leaders are just employees of the company.
The corporate income needs to be shared so that all the employees benefit and the company is kept strong.
The corporate hierarhy owes the rank and file and the retirees some money!

There needs to be a committee to decide how the next year's earnings are going to be devided.

WE THE PEOPLE are the majority!!!
WE will decide what is fair from now on.

CEOs and Boards and Congress can no longer decide when they should get raises and how much.

How much did they earn in 2011?? ZERO! WHY?? What did they do but try to block President Obama
and mess up the economy.

And Romney.... LET THE FORCLOSURE SYSEM PLAYOUT SO INVESTORS CAN BUT THE HOUSES AND GET PEOPLE TO RENT??????
What in the F%%^^&&K is he talking about???? Let's start a bunch of POTTERVILLES!!!!!!

Mitt - It's a wonderful life!!! BUT this is the 21st Century and the stars are with us and you're all going down!!!!

The jig is up.

We need to start teaching this stuff in Highschool so the next generation is prepared.

We've read about slaves in Egypt
We've heard about current day Egypt. Why are they better than slaves?
We abolished slavery in the United States!
And we've been beaten down over the past 35 years!!!

If we can't trust our elected officials we need to change the system!!
Let's start to make some real changes!!!!
Let's make congress accountable!!

No special retirement!
No special health care!
No special (preferred)stocks. Everyone gets to buy the same stocks!

We've given our elected officials our trust and money to save time to be more productive.
What did they do but use the extra time to screw the people of the United States!!!

Every decision in congress should be to try to make life better for all Americans!!
Let's start to hold them responsible for making our lives better!

Let's begin to make life better in these United States.
Let's reclaim the American Dream!!!!

[snappyturtle]

66. +1 Yes, let's reclaim the American dream but could we please hurry up....

I want to live long enough to see it!

Welcome to DU!

[socialindependocrat]

82. The elections are coming and

the GOP members are looking more stupid every day.

How can anyone possibly vote for these people
What do they do for the people??

[russspeakeasy]

80. If they try to teach this in high school, their funds would be cut.

[CoffeeCat]

9. He is so authentic, so wise and so RIGHT...

...about the leaders of the unions, our politicians and organizations of Moveon.org. Where in the hell
have they been as the corporations have swallowed our democracy? Where have their voices been? We have
been all alone--totally left out in the cold by the vast majority of our politicians and the organizations
that are supposed to keep our government representing "We The People".

They've all been bought off, or bribed into being toothless tigers that avoid addressing anything real.

I feel sorry for people, as Hedges mentioned, like Charlie Rangel, who show up at OWS. OWS is real. It
exists because people like Charlie Rangel helped destroy our democracy and embolden the corporations. Yes,
these people give lip service to Progressive ideals, but they say nothing and do nothing--as our country
has slid into Fascism. Showing up for an OWS rally--while you continue to continue to serve the corporations
through your cowardly legislative votes--is sickening.

And the people at those rallies know what you have done. This rally is above and beyond politics. This is about
our democracy.

Love this video. Love Chris Hedges.

[rbnyc]

11. + 1

I just wrote him a letter. I hope he has a chance to read it sometime. He's wonderful.

[lumpy]

91. Chris Hedges has provided an historical fact that all social

changes have come from unstructured citizen movements. The truth provides structure even to the point where the only force the opponents to change have (police aggression) is when the physical force joins with the social movement. If the social movement stands it's ground change will happen.

[sulphurdunn]

10. They've got to win now or else.

Failure would lead to cynicism and violence, just like it did in the 60s and early 70s. They have to win becasue we can't afford another generation of revolutionary hippies being twisted into Wall Street yuppies. There is no time for that.

[Voice for Peace]

14. I think there is no turning back with this now.

[chill_wind]

12. "It's not about me anymore. It's about the next generation. Our children.".

Yes. A powerful emotional investment that spans the generations.

I love the love and humility and humanity in this man.

K & R.

[RBInMaine]

13. To call MoveOn "reprehensible" is extreme. And if OWS doesn't figure out a way to affect real change

through real political action, it will dwindle to nothing, sooner than later. They must have real goals with a way to get them enacted. Pure and simple. Merely marching, chanting, and beating bongo drums will not cut the mustard. Look at ANY other meaningful movement: suffrage, labor, abolition, civil rights. Real change happened through real political action at the voting booth and in government, not in the marches. It has to be something more.

[Skip_In_Boulder]

20. Wake up!

It's already happening. Can't you feel the energy?

[bengalherder]

21. Blood was shed in the streets for all those movements to get noticed by the electorate.

What about haymarket? The 'iron-jawed angels' couldn't even vote themselves but they protested. Are you suggesting that they could have improved their lot thru the ballot box? Civil rights were bloody at times too. Perhaps we should ask the marchers at Selma if they should have stayed home and pursued politics as usual.

It all took place on the streets before it was a gleam in the eye of politicians and voters.

Edit to add, you can take that right wing bongo shit and put it where the orangutan keeps his wallet.

[vanbean]

72. Great Point!!!

[sabrina 1]

47. They have real goals. How long did it take all those movements

to get 'civil rights, abolition, labor rights'?? This movement is ONE MONTH OLD and already look at what they have accomplished.

Civil rights took centuries. This time, Chris Hedges is right I believe, and no one knows more about movements than he does.

You are still thinking inside the box. That was what we all were doing and that's why we failed to get anything done, other than elect Wall Street Candidates who then told us to STFU and keep voting for them because 'where else are you going to go'?? Arrogance on top of failure to represent the people are the reasons for this movement and its rapid growth is a sign of how many people were in agreement, as the polls have always shown, about issues that WE were constantly told were 'ponies' etc. etc. I have never a more spectacular failure than what the Democrats did with the majorities they were handed in 2008. But then again, they didn't fail the people they were really working for.

When the Unions began threatening to not donate their millions to the Dem Party a few months ago, when the Head of the National Firemen's Union stated that he would 'no longer be told we have nowhere else to go' the Dem Party should have listened, instead they and their operatives continued to insult those who put them in office with their votes.

Many of us tried to warn those carrying Rahm's and the rest of the DLC/Third Way message to people who had genuine concerns, but we all know what the responses were, the constant list of excuses. But we know that when people are committed to something, they get things done. The Party structure is owned at the moment by Corporations and they were committed to keeping their bosses happy. That is why we heard nothing but excuses and most of us, as the polls show, were never fooled by the excuses.

Now the people will lead, instead of waiting around for instructions. They do have somewhere else to go after all, I hope for THEIR sake the Dem Party loses that insult, it had a profound negative effect and ended up being a challenge to the Unions, to ordinary people and if anything helped spark this movement. I wonder who ever told them they could act that way towards the American people they are supposed to be representing? Whoever they are, they need to be fired. So much for the 'think tanks' and the 'political experts'. I never was too impressed by those 'professionals'. But they do get credit for helping to start this movement which is the only real hope of the people's needs finally being addressed.

The people will decide who gets elected, not political 'pacs' and professional political operatives this time. Energy like this is a good thing for democracy, especially one that has been hi-jacked by entities that care nothing for people.

[Douglas Carpenter]

50. Politicians don't pay attention to social movements or run on their issues -until they have gained

strength and credibility on the street. The abolitionist, the labor movement, the civil rights movement, the women's movement, the gay rights movement and every other meaningful mass movement did not begin with voter registration drives. Candidates didn't even care about those issues until pressure from the street forced those issues into the mainstream. Only then did electoral politics even became relevant. Besides there are no more than a small handful of economic progressives left in the U.S. Congress anyway. Even if the Democrats won a 75% majority in both houses of Congress it will not undo decades of growing economic inequality...it might slow down the forces of reactions - Most likely it will only produce feel-good platitudes and watered down half measures while the gap between rich and poor grows wider and wider. Only a mass movement can put the issue of economic justice and an equitable wealth distribution back into the mainstream of political debate - after having been only on the fringes of respectable opinion and ignored by both major parties for the last three decades.

[Slit Skirt]

55. Yes, it is wrong to call MoveOn irrehensible

The demands that OWS has put out, are the same demands that many progressive groups (including MoveON) has been working towards for years. The OWS is the movement that many of us have been waiting for...the next generation getting out into the streets and actually caring enough to protest. We have always asked where are all the people? Why aren't they out protesting? Well, they are and here we go with a movement that in my hopes, will take this country by a storm. The 1% is scared and they don't want all progressive forces joining the OWS protests. That would be about 70% of the population...that is why they say what they do...they are trying to create a circular firing squad.

Please be aware of this and stand tall and don't blink. We have a very special moment in time and we need to take it to the powerful. This IS our time

[Jackpine Radical]

67. "Irrehensible?"

I'm gonna steal that word from you & sell it to the highest bidder. I wonder if I'll get a better offer for it from Dubya or Palin?

And I'm pretty damn excited about the potential for OWS. I love the energy. This one may finally move the public out of the blindered box the corporate interests have been keeping them in.

[vanbean]

74. Thanks for the morning laugh.

[cui bono]

68. Chris Hedges isn't part of the 1%. He's not trying to create a circular firing squad.

:shrug:

[tavalon]

69. As long as Moveon stays in the background

and any of the politicians do the same, we're good. In fact the unions need to take a seat, too. This is organic, anarchic and fully grassroots. I watched Moveon go from a grassroots effort to something stodgy and astroturfed. Everyone who wasn't in from the ground up needs to be supportive but not leader like. This is a leaderless movement and for now, it must stay that way. Yeah, I know the anarchists prepared themselves for the organic moment, but they didn't start the fire, the people did and they are the ones we need to support, not Moveon, not ANSWER not President Obama, not even Jesse Jackson. He, btw, got it right from the start that he was to link hands and not stand out.

Don't stand out Moveon, support. All the other groups that want to support, please do, but don't try to lead. This isn't your revolution, it's our revolution, We The People. You are ground troops just like the rest of us. Don't do home voting where you don't even give your groups the choices they really care about (that's a call out to Moveon and their refusal to look at the wars after Obama was elected. Didn't think we noticed? We did).

The well worn phrase is Lead, Follow or Get The Hell Out of the Way. The first option is now closed and I hope that it remains closed. Join or get out of the way. Those are Moveon's choices just as they are President Obama's. We're done with that hopey, changey thing. We aren't looking to you guys anymore. Look to us. Be with us. Link arms with us and don't wear your monikers. If you are with us, you are a 99%er, not Moveon, not Greenpeace, not Earth First!, not the Democratic Party, not _________. Get it? We'll have no leaders and the more people say we must have leaders, the more we know that they don't understand what is happening right in front of their faces. Those are the ones who only have one choice - get the hell out of the way.

Moveon and the Democratic Party had their place and their time. Neither are now. Diffuse, anarchistic, consensus is the way of the future, possibly the only way. Will this achieve without violence from our side? I sure hope so as it is the only way we win. The ones who wish this movement to end will use violence and if we meet it with passive resistance, well, we're in uncharted territory, aren't we? No, wait, we aren't, see India and South Africa for some fine examples.

Keep that "we" attitude and help the people you work with to understand the "we" attitude and the need for Moveon to subvert itself to the collective and "we" will get along like a big, happy family. Onward to the barricades!

[Kaleko]

105. Beautiful, passionate voice.

I heart what you said.

[tavalon]

106. Thank you

But a greater thanks from me must go to OWS, for they helped me find my voice again.

[cui bono]

110. Very well said. Thank you. n/t

[mistertrickster]

84. Exactly right. King marched to get legislation passed . . . not just to march. nt

[Larkspur]

89. Agree. I'm a MoveOn.org member and chair of my local DTC AND

I support OWS. I was a victim of layoffs and having my job given over to Indian consultants, who flub the job, which got me hired back as a contractor for the users of the environment I once supported. I rejoined the Democratic Party back in 2002 because it is the only national political party with the resources to fight the Republican-John Birch-Tea Party hordes.

[Gregorian]

17. It's satisfying to see him in his element as it comes to fruition.

And his expressions of joy is testament that this is a real movement that may very well achieve the results it set out to accomplish.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

23. Great! I love Chris Hedges.

[xiamiam]

24. yes,,everything he said ..and the emotion as well..i'm right there in my gut feeling about this.

that was wonderful..thank you for posting this..thank you Chris Hedges for being there and helping and beins so respectful and appreciative..I am as well

[bertman]

28. Very eloquent and moving. How I hope he is right. REC. nt

[lonestarnot]

30. K & R! Yeah baby!

[Modern_Matthew]

34. Don't give two shits what he says about MoveOn...

All I care about is OWS these days. All other organizations are laughable, including MoveOn and this party.

P.S. He is an amazing human being with a lot of emotion.

[pmorlan1]

35. Stay Strong

I hope OWS keeps switching off spokespeople so that they can't get to them. The powers that be and their foot soldiers have been and will continue to try to co-opt this movement. Stay Strong. Tell them they can participate but they can't run the show and they are NOT spokespeople for OWS.

[midnight]

38. Thank you... K&R

[snot]

39. Anyone else noticing how the "We Are the 99%!" chant syncs up with

the chant of Egyptian protestors in Tahrir? Check out NiveHive's tune, "People Demand" for the latter (G:\X\LP2-303 Pogue-McMullan\Index to Estate Docs ).

[Fokker Trip]

41. Seeing him smile gives me hope.

I've watched all of his talks that I could find and they get pretty bleak, though I always agree with his assessment based on what I read and know of things.

Seeing him smiling about this and finding hope is a really buoying thing for me. Wish I could be in NYC for this. It's such an incredible city anyway and with this happening it must be electric.

He is such a great combination of moral strength/rightness and intelligence.

[Enthusiast]

42. Like Chis, I could cry.

Someone is finally speaking up for me.

[lovuian]

45. the foot soldiers of the elite

have been treated like shit

They are waking up and not going to support the elite

[SkyDaddy7]

48. OWS will need the Democratic Party to...

vote the way they want in order to bring on change. Until the two mesh nothing will happen. I know I am going to get flamed for saying this but come on...Who else is going to pass the needed legislation in order to change what is going on?

However, I do understand why OWS does not want to be seen as belonging to any political party right now...But true change will require votes in congress & the POTUS...I doubt that will happen under a Republican controlled government.

[Scuba]

51. If this goes as I hope, the OWS movement will swallow the Democratic Party whole. n/t

[bread_and_roses]

58. Sure. So we can elect Ds like Cuomo - who'd rather lay off teachers

and Firefighters than tax the rich?

I don't think so.

Like the poster upthread said - all I care about these days is OWS. And if MO et al wanted real change they would be doing one thing and one thing only - telling their members that the best thing they can do is "Occupy Everywhere." And not with clicks. With feet. For an hour a day, if that's all your tired old feet and back can stand (me) - or 24/7 if you can.

As several other posters upthread pointed out, "the votes" for labor reform, suffrage, civil rights, were not there till people went into the streets and faced down the establishment - including the political establishment.

[Chan790]

60. BIngo.

OWS needs to not mesh with the Democratic Party as the Democratic Party is overrun with people who need to GTFO and are not Democrats in any real nominal sense.

Ronald Reagan said "I didn't leave the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party left me!" I wish we'd left more of these idjits along the way.

[tavalon]

76. The Democratic Party must be willing to subvert itself to the collective

Who are the collective? We The People. If the Democratic party wishes to join arm in arm and not be the leaders of this movement, they can come, individually, and without their monikers. This isn't about them. It's about us and it's about time! If President Obama chooses to follow or get out of the way, makes no never mind to me, but what he will not be allowed to do is lead this movement. For to allow that will end the movement as surely as the Republicans did in the Teabaggers, who frankly, were astroturf from the beginning and this isn't, but it doesn't mean we can't be destroyed by our "friends". As I've learned in the last three years, they are the most likely to destroy us while we sit stunned and confused. And OWS is us, refusing to be destroyed. Until the last few weeks, I have been without hope. OWS gives us hope and a voice, two great things that go great together.

Talk about how we can't survive without a leader as much as you want and we will survive, without a leader and we will persevere. Dear Goddess, I hope this group is smart enough to eschew all advances. The Democratic Party Machine is a python that will destroy this nascent movement without so much as a look backward. I don't want to see that and I don't think anyone in this movement wants to see it.

We The People don't want the Republicans to take over DC. That would be dumb. While I think many of us see the Democrats as enablers and a kinder, gentler Republican light, the fact of the matter is, if we have a Republican controlled DC, violence will ensue and that's not good for anyone. Even as I am in thrall to the anarchists, I will vote for Obama so that this can remain a viable movement but as soon as my vote is cast, I will look away again for I don't look to a leader any more - Obama cured me of that. This administration has not spoken to our interests but they will be far more likely than an authoritarian Republican DC to listen and to follow along.

The Oligarchs will try to destroy us - it's in their DNA but as the 99 to 1 concept reminds us, we outnumber them.

[SkyDaddy7]

93. It does not matter how amny we have if...

We do not have the votes in Congress or the POTUS, PERIOD! End of story. I like to be optimistic but I think we need to be REAL as well.

[tavalon]

102. We haven't had their ear or their votes in decades

We have one party determined to give the oligarchs everything they want and another that enables the first to do exactly that. So, if you want to be real, look at that and then realize that throughout our history few rights were given to us directly by our government, we demanded them first and the politicians followed along.

And yes, it matters very much how many and how determined we are. It matters far more than DC ever did or ever will.

[mntleo2]

52. Mr Hedges Says An Important Thing About Leadership:

...whether it is about MoveOn (with which I am a member), our government leaders, or any other organization. It is about the brilliance of *not* having any single "leaders" but rotating them through.

I am almost 60 years old and I remember the '60s and how the good things it promoted degenerated down into becoming absolutely nothing by this time. As an activist who was inspired by those times, we did not know how to do things any other way and it did not occur to us how to do it. The OWS youth are "getting it", they have learned from our past and know many of us TRIED to make change, but we could not BECAUSE we always looked to a hierarchic system (from the "top down" instead of from the "bottom up").

Giving one person or a few people the power to speak for the rest is not EVER going to represent everyone as these brilliant and VERY wise young people are trying to do. This eventually leaves first a few out, then degenerates down into leaving a majority out with the ones in power becoming the ONE person speaking for all.

Let me give you an example: I can imagine since I knew those times and remember when young MEN were obligated to do time in the armed forces. When George Bush was skipping out on his duties in the service, he thought that he was "giving the finger" to "The System", yet still "obeying" its basic tenets where "the man" demanded he do his time. Meanwhile John Kerry who also "obeyed" the tenets, went to Vietnam and literally spent time in the trenches seeing the ugliness that his generational peer Mr Bush did not. Yet both have become leaders in their ways, because coming up both of them led a pretty priviledged life, growing up with things most of their generation did not have. Both simply have diluted the message by co-opting for the System that both reviled as youth. They became "spokespersons" who became acclimated to the luxuries of their position. Once they became part of "the problem" they could not address the basic problem: the ability to "lead" always dilutes the message and thus does little to make any changes.

We were told in my generation that if we wanted to change the System to work WITHIN the System. Well that does not work. The System ALWAYS is a corrupting influence because once you become enmeshed there is few ways out except to leave it (which many of my generation did, and that does not work either). This is because this System demands a hierarchic system.

Leading from the "bottom up" is definitely a much harder way, not only because it is outside of the System we are traditionally trained to have, but because listening and respecting ALL voices is much harder to do. Yet this is the best way for a truly small "d" democratic way.

I too feel like Mr Hedges and am reduced to tears for what I am watching. These kids "get it" much better than my generation and it is about time! May God speed them into something far better for all! I only know the "MoveOn" way myself but I do think it is time to bow out of the leadership business and let this change begin. Because my generation has some things to learn and maybe offer from what we have encountered in order to smooth the way to the ones who are making REAL change. FINALLY!!!!!

Cat in Seattle

[dixiegrrrrl]

88. Amen to what you said, Cat.

I was very politically active in Puget Sound area around the same time.
One of the "proudest" moments of my life was when the system I was fighting offered me a job!
I knew what co-opting was all about, of course, and was somehow wise enough to turn it down;
it sure told me I was on the right side of the issue!

It is clear that these are smart and savvy folks, the way they have organized the Occupation, the communication, and especially how they are being aggressive right back at TPTB.

When I see and hear Hedges being so supportive and so moved, I agree that "THIS is real".
That man has seen revolutions come and go all over the world, he of all people knows how to take the temperature of this one.

[Overseas]

111. Well said. Thank you!

[graywarrior]

56. Powerful. I agree with everything he said.

[mother earth]

63. A new day is here, as cynical as everyone has become, that

realization is taking hold. Where we go and what happens next is evolving...people waking up to the fact that things don't have to be the old way. Can one man's opinion matter? Can a group's effort matter? OWS is saying, yes, when we are unified, there is nothing that can't be changed. K & R

[LittleGirl]

70. thank you for posting this

My introduction to Chris will be remembered for a long time. He's speaks for me too. I'll have to go get his books and read up on his work.

thank you, thank you!

[lib2DaBone]

71. Excellent information. OWS faces a threat of being co-opted...

.. to be sure.. there are many groups mixing in with OWS. at this time.... trying to co-opt it.

And you can bet.. the FBI, CIA and NYPD and NSA , etc, all have their provocateurs in place.. trying to infiltrate the movement, and steer it into oblivion.

Hang tough guys and gals... watch your back.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2145578

[dadzilla]

73. By and large, I buy what he's selling

With the exception of the Move-On remark, which seems like half a step too far. I agree that we will see an attempt to guide if not steer the movement into a nice safe pasture where the Unions, the DLC and Move-On can toss out some hay. Let's be honest, the Democratic party has had plenty of chances to change the system if it really wanted too. Instead it's just as guilty of milking business for favors as the RepubliCONs, with even less a ideological a fig leaf as cover.

As a pragmatic sort I'm willing to take half a sandwich. The Democratic Party for all it's faults is better than what the other side is serving. That doesn't mean I'm not hungry for the real change OWS could offer.

[pam4water]

81. It's more like the majority stayed passive until it was their livelihoods and homes on the line.

Then when there were a majority of people hurting people came together. When it was a minority most people just turned there backs on the unemployed, sick and homeless.

[Dont call me Shirley]

85. You, Chris, helped to inform us, thank you!

your honesty, courage and wisdom and those like you gave rise to the OWS movement. Keep on going!

[sonias]

90. Wow

That was amazing. Chris Hedges rocks!

I hope what he foresees comes true!

:woohoo:

[yoyossarian]

95. Simply LOVELY!

On every level! K&R!

[myrna minx]

97. K&R n/t

[MissDeeds]

98. Excellent comments by Chris Hedges

K&R a thousand times!!!

[Hestia]

101. My ire towards MoveOn.org is they were part of the group that took public option of healthcare

off the table. When they met with OFA early in the administration, they refused to hear anything about the public option. That stopped my donations.

[MadAsHellInAmerica]

109. Hedges is really great!

Love him on TruthDig.
This really is a movement too big to fail.
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/a_movement_too_big_to_fail_20111017/

[Overseas]

112. Really beautiful. So well said. I share his admiration for the new style of democracy.

That protects its independence from co-opting by all kinds of famous people and groups who have promised to represent us.

[Kaleko]

114. A kick for Hedges.

[CHOCOLATMIMOSA]

115. Very good - except he's wrong about unions

There are problems w/any institution, but damn, if it weren't for unions these issues wouldn't even be alive. They've id'd these problems all along - no one would listen until now. I saw it first hand - he's wrong.

[Quixote1818]

116. kick