Young Turks - Was Assange of WikiLeaks Set Up? Cenk: 'You're telling me this isn't a witch-hunt?'

[Hissyspit]

Run time: 03:59 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvhv7wXiHa8   Posted on YouTube: December 02, 2010 By YouTube Member: TheYoungTurks Views on YouTube: 302   Posted on DU: December 02, 2010 By DU Member: Hissyspit Views on DU: 5422

 
TheYoungTurks - Dec. 1, 2010

CENK UYGUR: "Julian Assange is now a wanted man. They have issued a RED NOTICE, Interpol has. They've put him on a wanted poster. He's wanted for SEX CRIMES! Of course, Julian Assange is the head of WikiLeaks. Look at that. That looks DANGEROUS. Man, there's like a world with a sword in it and such. That dude is WANTED. For SEX CRIMES.

He must be a really dangerous guy.

Yeah. Let me tell you something, o.k.? Of course, I'm open to the evidence, and if there was a trial and I was on the jury, I would listen to see who was right and who was wrong, obviously.

Right now? NOT BUYING IT - AT ALL...

Now what you will hear from other places is equivacation. 'Well, it's a serious charge, and there's these two women, who are claiming, da, da, da... and so, you know, we have to be, to call it even...' No, no. It's not even.

You're telling me that a guy who was doing these massive leaks, which is infuriating, not only the United States government, but governments all across the world, because he's telling us what they're actually doing, that all of a sudden, at the same exact time, there's rape charges against him. Just coincidental. Just coincidental.

Oh, hell no, man. Come on, how naive do you have to be? Doesn't mean it didn't happen; it doesn't mean I wouldn't listen to evidence. But you'd have an overwhelming case to convince me that this is the wildest coincidence of all time.

And remember, the charges were first filed, and then one of the prosecutors in Sweden was like: 'What the hell is this crap?' and withdrew them. And then somebody above that prosecutor came along and said: 'No, no. Be cool. Be cool. We have to press the case forward.' One of the charges of the women was that 'Oh, we were having consensual sex, but then the condom broke, and he didn't take it out in time.' O.K., I don't know, look, if it goes to a trial, fine, I'll have an open mind.

But you're telling me this isn't a witch-hunt? This isn't a smear job? Come on. Come on.

And, you know, I said this yesterday off-air, as we were preparing the MSNBC show, and I was like: 'Look, if you thought they came after Assange before, when he revealed government documents, wait till you see what they got coming up next, 'cause now he's going to reveal the inner workings of the banks - remember he told Forbe's Magazine I'm coming after a big bank and you're going to see their unethical practices.' Right? And I said in the morning meeting yesterday 'Oh, ho, ho. That smear campaign, it's just warming up.'

And today... Interpol. Oh my... WARNING! WARNING: SEX CRIMES, WANTED, RED ALERT, RED NOTICE!

Funny how... do you know why? It's just so you understand why? Look, when you go against the government, you know, a lot of people are affected, etc. etc., but not one person necessarily loses money over it. Yeah, some people might lose prestige, etc. etc., but when you go after the banks, there's real money on the line. Person X and Person Y and Person Z might lose a lot of their compensation when those leaks happen. They're not happy about that. When money ain't happy, all of a sudden, you get red alerts all across the world.

So, if they're going to come at Assange, you ought to be incredibly skeptical about what they're coming with, o.k.?

And I certainly am."

[Ozymanithrax]

1. So if a woman claims she was rapped by someone we like...

then the woman must have been wrong. Maybe she just thought she said no. Maybe she wore levis and was asking for it.

Maybe Mr. Assange should return and prove his innocence.

[ihavenobias]

2. Someone we "like"?

I think you meant someone who a wide variety of very rich and powerful interests would love to discredit and silence right about now.

Enormous difference.

[Ozymanithrax]

4. So the difference is that people who do things like Wikileks...

can't possibly also rape a woman.

Let Mr. Assange go to court and face his accusers. If he is innocent, he will have a chance to be acquitted.

Maybe these are politically motivated charges. Maybe Mr. Assange just likes a little rape.

[Hissyspit]

5. Maybe it stinks to high heaven and Assange fears for his life.

[Ozymanithrax]

7. And maybe these women are right. n/t

[MNBrewer]

21. and maybe these women are lying because they've been paid or coerced into it

in order to smear Assange

[brewens]

27. Kind of Like Paula Jones. I actually think she got exactly what

she wanted. Sex with "The Big Dog". She probably did exactly what he asked her to do. Then when she realized she wasn't the Governors new babe, she got bent and went along with smearing Clinton.
They both lied about what really went on.

[ProudDad]

45. I don't think Mr. Assange wants to volunteer for

Kangaroo Court...

Neither would I...

In fact, I'd be in Ecuador by now...

[1monster]

51. No, but failing to perform coitus interruptus when a condom breaks is not rape. eom

[Enthusiast]

78. Gullible much?

As if TPTB could not arrange for the evidence to support Assange's guilt. They can have anyone accused and convicted. We are talking about the intelligence, black-ops capabilities of the U.S.A.

[Moonbat2]

samething

Run time: 03:59 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvhv7wXiHa8   Posted on YouTube: December 02, 2010 By YouTube Member: TheYoungTurks Views on YouTube: 302   Posted on DU: December 02, 2010 By DU Member: Moonbat2 Views on DU: 5422

 

[Moonbat2]

60. samething

[Hissyspit]

3. That's not what Cenk said.

Assange has been interviewed. He has offered to be interviewed again. He is UNDERSTANDABLY REASONABLY suspicious of Sweden's motivations now.

And that was not what Cenk said. Healthy skepticism at the coincidence of the situation is not equivalent to 'she asked for it.'

[Ozymanithrax]

6. So he will stand in a foreign country and say the equivalent of...

"I didn't sexual relations with that woman..."

Bullshit. Let him hire a lawyer and answer in court. By the way, "Nigeria to Charge Dick Cheney in Pipeline Bribery Case." I also think Mr. Cheney should hire a lawyer and face the charges in Nigeria.

[Hissyspit]

8. He has a lawyer. The lawyer has released a statement arguing the warrant is illegal.

You seem to not be too well informed on the case.

[Ozymanithrax]

9. Nice to see he hired a lawyer..

Now, he should go back and show that it is illegal.

I've discovered that the right lawyer will say anything. Lawyers actually told President Bush that he could torture.

[Hissyspit]

10. The argument about whether he should return to Sweden to face charges is valid.

The stumbling block is probably an in-fear-for-his-life thing. Everything else you have typed has been ill-informed, off-topic/not equivalent and just plain offensive.

"a little rape." Yes, lawyers can say anything. So can accusers.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article26867.htm

http://www.theage.com.au/national/the-man-who-played-with-fire-20100925-15rof.html?from=age_sb

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2010/12/01/131722777/timeline-the-international-arrest-warrant-for-wikileaks-julian-assange

[Ozymanithrax]

11. No, the post makes a claim that this is a witch hunt...

that these are false accusations. If it is a false accusation then the women who accused him of rape are lying.

Rather than assume it is a witch hunt, that the accusations are false, I think he should return and answer to the crimes in a court.

He was defended by claiming that he had a lawyer that said the charges were not legal. I just pointed out that lawyers can and do say anything. You are right that accusers can say anything. But the test should still be made in a court of law rather than assume the women are lying and this is a witch hunt.

The assumption of innocence should be made my a jury. The public has a right to demand he answer his accusers.

And as for being in-fear-of-his-life, let him hire a body guard.

[AtheistCrusader]

13. Point out another person with an Interpol warrant, as high priority as this, for the same charges.

I'll wait.

[MNBrewer]

19. No, you think anyone accused of rape is guilty

[Ozymanithrax]

29. No, but I think they should defend their innocence in court...

rather than from an undisclosed location.

[Hissyspit]

34. If he believes the system is corrupt and has suspicious motivations, then that complicates things.

Asssange is not a citizen of Sweden. He is an Australian citizen. He was apparently trying to gain residence in Sweden and met with a questionable reaction and so is understandably suspicious.

By the way, Assange DOES now have bodyguards. If he believes there is an illegal response possible from the Swedish authorities should he return, I'm not sure I understand how you think his bodyguards would be of help to him.

[Hissyspit]

52. Read this.

And quit referring to rape.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/sweden-assange-sex-without-condom/

[MNBrewer]

53. thank goodness my boyfriend and I don't live in Sweden

[Enthusiast]

79. Unfuckingreal.

Bullshit right from the start. Just as I thought.

[abelenkpe]

63. I think you're doing a good job of ignoring the content of the cables

in pursuit of the man just as the media and government wants you to. Good job.

[ProudDad]

46. The post points out the FACT that it's

a suspicious coincidence that after being thrown out, the "charge" is reinstated by higher placed political personages...

And that there's AMPLE precedent for witch hunts and manufactured charges against people that piss off the Empire...

And he does mention more than once that as for the charge he has an open mind...

But that Assange rightly doesn't trust the motives of what is probably a Kangaroo Court procedure...

And body guards don't protect you against criminal-injustice systems gone wild...

Get a clue...

[cpwm17]

47. Julian Assange himself knows if "the crimes" were committed

If he didn't commit the crimes then he should never return to Sweden, and he doesn't owe anybody anything.

If he did the crimes then shame on him and he needs punishment.

[abelenkpe]

62. You sound embarassingly biased.

Like my mother who was certain whitewater happened and that Obama's birth certificate a fake. The accusations have made you unbalanced and I'm sure that it will effect many women the same way.

[TBF]

38. Anyone can say anything -

the timing is very suspicious. Looks like a smear job to me.

[jhrobbins]

56. Really-let's just hear a couple of headlines or talking points and then let loose the war cry!

I agree with you and I hope Mr. Assange remains safe. He needs to stay on the ground and not drive either.

[laughingliberal]

35. +1000 nt

[BlueMTexpat]

42. Especially when these "charges" have been in the background

ever since the first damaging exposes from Wikileaks and even discredited, but are now taking on a rousing momentum of their own ... something does smell a lot!

When even half as much attention is taken to charging Bush and Cheney for war crimes, I may begin to believe.

[ProudDad]

48. With half as much attention to bush/cheney war crimes

those two fascist fucks would be in prison...

[Hissyspit]

55. It smells even more when you read this:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/sweden-assange-sex-without-condom

And this:

http://www.theage.com.au/national/the-man-who-played-with-fire-20100925-15rof.html?from=age_sb

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

69. ROFL!!!

:thumbsup:

[girl gone mad]

12. The charge isn't rape.

[ProudDad]

49. Very Good Point! (n/t)

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ooglymoogly]

16. Ah yes the strawman scarecrow false equivalency talking points.

fer sher doooood.

[MNBrewer]

17. maybe the prosecutor should PROVE his guilt

THEY have the burden of proof, right?

[baldguy]

18. And what is the easiest way for ruling class to discredit someone telling unpleasant truths?

That's right, charge that person with a heinous crime.

[AtheistCrusader]

22. He doesn't have to prove his innocence. They have to prove his guilt.

That's how a presumption of innocence works.

[GillesDeleuze]

23. hyperventilating goes on ignore.

computer says no.

[axollot]

24. How many times does he have to mention he'd see the evidence? I'm not buying what governments are

selling atm either! Especially what the US is selling these days. Lots of CYA going on.

Cheers
sandy

edit to add: The country if it has enough evidence can always charge him in absentia - then he could be extradited to that country at any time if guilty. Lets see the evidence.

[Ticonderoga]

31. Or better yet,

return and force them to prove in a fair trial amongst his peers, that a crime has been committed and that he is the person responsible for that crime.

[ProudDad]

50. You are very naive about

criminal-injustice systems being used for political purposes, aren't you? :shrug:

[PatrynXX]

33. Reminds me of Clinton. oh yeah. having sex is worse than war crimes

shit!

[molly77]

39. Assange's lawyer was on democracynow today.

She stated that he asked to come into the police station and the police told him it was not necessary in Sweden. she also said that he was not in hiding, but had to keep a low profile for his own safety. Even Mike Huck a be is calling for his assassination.

Democracy now can be watched online. Old programs from the past week or two as well.Noam Chomsky was particularly good the other day.Seems like democracy now is just getting better and better.

[MedicalAdmin]

40. Do you understand what he is "charged" with? It ain't what you think.

He is accused of having consensual sex and that the condom broke.

[molly77]

41. Assange's lawyer was on democracynow today.

She said that he offered to go to the police dept. and they refused in Sweden and they did not want to see him. Democracy Now can be seen online. The last few days have been killer. You can also watch old shows. Noam Chomsky was on the other day. He had some things to say about Palestine that were interesting.

[ProudDad]

44. rapped?

You mean like Snoop Dog recites "poetry" at you??? :hide:

Anyway, you DID read this, didn't you? :)

"And remember, the charges were first filed, and then one of the prosecutors in Sweden was like: 'What the hell is this crap?' and withdrew them. And then somebody above that prosecutor came along and said: 'No, no. Be cool. Be cool. We have to press the case forward.' One of the charges of the women was that 'Oh, we were having consensual sex, but then the condom broke, and he didn't take it out in time.' O.K., I don't know, look, if it goes to a trial, fine, I'll have an open mind."

[Moonbat2]

59. now you understand

that is exactly what they are saying. It is so not the first time by any account

[abelenkpe]

61. Yeah?

Have you actually read any articles about the woman who has brought forth these claims written before the media frenzy of the past two days? While under normal circumstances it would be wise for him to turn himself in to face these charges right now there is no way he will receive a fair trial. You know that. Media is insulted, World leaders embarrassed and reports concentrate on him, not the content of the leaks. Read the cables, check out the site. We are involved in a war we cannot win wasting billions killing people half the world away. The word treason doesn't apply to a publisher publishing information leaked by a Washington insider. But there are crimes and misrepresentations being reported through those cables, and they are committed by those screaming the loudest.

[Richard Steele]

65. Fale.

nm

[TheMadMonk]

73. Not at all. Let's make a comparrison shall we?

Roman Polanski: Self admitted rapist of a thirteen year old girl. Different times, different attitudes, not quite the same crime as it is now, but bad nontheless. AAAND decades of not even bothering and years more of negotiation and other wrangling. And now off the radar and I have no idea where he is and what, if anything, has been done to him.

Assange: Consensual sex (apparently) between adults, with complications and questions of last minute changes of mind. The prosecutor handed the case saw no legal case to answer. POLITICAL pressure from above forcfully reopened the case. I have no knowledge of any opinons expressed on masculine asshattery. And there are so many possible influencing factors that absent some very clear indicators, that the when and the why of who did what and with which and to whom is impossible to determine without a hell of a lot more information than is available to us and, in the opinion of the original prosecutor, to a court of law.

With the way this is playing out, one of the first questions I'd be asking is WHICH party supplied the condom that broke? Another telling question would be: Did he "cut them from the pack", or did they "come on" to him? Wrong or not bad sexual behaviour on the part of a man subsequent to initial encouragement is more understandable and less actionable than the predator going for the kill and refusing to take no for an answer.

Absent some pretty damning evidence of other than normal (if reprehensible) masculine (particularly when flying on a Stercus stercus stercus, morituri sum + "I just got away of kicking Andre the Giant in the nadgers" + "Oh WOW I can pull them now" high) behaviour, there is no way to construe this as anything except a very crude and obvious political hatchet job.

There is almost no doubt that one of these now infamous diplomatic dipatches has recently passed between the United States and Sweden. The contents of this dispatch I think would make for very interesting reading.

[russspeakeasy]

76. Methinks you are protesting too much...

[midnight]

15. I had similiar skeptical thoughts....

Alternet had a great write up on this topic...

"The state department knew of the leak several months ago and had ample time to alert staff in sensitive locations. Its pre-emptive scaremongering over the weekend stupidly contrived to hint at material not in fact being published. Nor is the material classified top secret, being at a level that more than 3 million US government employees are cleared to see, and available on the defence department's internal Siprnet. Such dissemination of "secrets" might be thought reckless, suggesting a diplomatic outreach that makes the British empire seem minuscule."



"The revelations do not have the startling, coldblooded immediacy of the WikiLeaks war logs from Iraq and Afghanistan, with their astonishing insight into the minds of fighting men seemingly detached from the ethics of war. The's disclosures are largely of analysis and high-grade gossip. Insofar as they are sensational, it is in showing the corruption and mendacity of those in power, and the mismatch between what they claim and what they do."

"The job of the media is not to protect power from embarrassment. If American spies are breaking United Nations rules by seeking the DNA biometrics of the UN director general, he is entitled to hear of it. British voters should know what Afghan leaders thought of British troops. American (and British) taxpayers might question, too, how most of the billions of dollars going in aid to Afghanistan simply exits the country at Kabul airport."http://www.alternet.org/world/149006/media_shouldn%27t_protect_power_from_embarrassment%3A_why_wikileaks_had_to_release_the_us_embassy_cables/


And it is most likely the banking cables that are going to let us see what we were told was going on vs what is going on.....

[axollot]

26. I've said from the beginning if the banking drop will be brutal and

why shouldnt a country like Iceland offer asylum? Lord knows the banking industry treated them like dirt, robbed them blind. I hope he is safe - the information will get out there no matter what they do to Assange, he made sure of it and all of a sudden our people act like it's "24" with him. Faux didnt just dumb down the avg voter.
*smh*

Cheers
Sandy

[Poll_Blind]

20. Cenk nails it again. K&R.

PB

[Dinger]

25. Yes, K & R (nt)

[avebury]

28. I am skeptical

It is more likely that the powers to be are trying another tactic to deal with WikiLeaks. Even if he was brought to prove his innocence I would not be surprised if the powers to be have stacked the deck so high against him that he might have a difficult time proving his innocence.

[LiberalLovinLug]

30. Sex Crime. Isn't this how they got the "criminal" in the novel 1984?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

George Orwell

[Dinger]

32. Orwell Is Right (nt)

[laughingliberal]

36. +1000 nt

[glitch]

66. 1984 has been their playbook

since before he wrote it (:P of course), but it has been a very convenient training tool for them. I speculate.

[laughingliberal]

37. Funny how he became a 'most wanted' after he revealed he's got the goods on some banksters.

It becomes more apparent every day who the world governments work for. And ours leads the pack in this regard.

K&R

[Enthusiast]

81. No coincidence....nt

[mrdmk]

43. K & R

Not only do I know pron when I see, but also a set-up.

BTW: To the people who say, 'he should come out and prove his innocents!' Most modern societies have a innocent until proven guilty philosophy these days. Get with it, or is that Dick Cheney and the right wing mob posting here?

:wow:

[Hissyspit]

54. Former Assange Lawyer: Sweden Pushes Forward w/ Flimsy Case

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/sweden-assange-sex-without-condom/

He argued that Sweden has been pushed into a corner by the investigation and has found itself moving forward with a flimsy case because, in this day and age of social networking news and instant communication, prosecutors can't add new evidence without publicly discrediting themselves.

Catlin also said that the two alleged victims -- whom he names in the article -- boasted of their sexual "conquests" online after the incidents took place.

They sought advice together, having collaborated and irrevocably tainted each other’s evidence beforehand. Their SMS texts to each other show a plan to contact the Swedish newspaper Expressen beforehand in order to maximise the damage to Assange. They belong to the same political group and attended a public lecture given by Assange and organised by them.

- snip -

Catlin states that neither of the women's police statements "complain of rape."

"But then neither complained to the police but rather 'sought advice,' a technique in Sweden enabling citizens to avoid just punishment for making false complaints," Catlin alleges.

Catlin promises that, as the investigation goes on, it will reveal "damning evidence" about "what passes for legal process in Sweden." Even though the investigation has been ongoing since August, he says Assange's lawyers didn't receive any documents from prosecutors until November 18, and then the documents were only in Swedish, "contrary to European Law."

[SurfingScientist]

57. No, I don't think he should go into a Swedish court or police station...

... to be 'heard on the case'.

Why would they insist in that? To me, that smells like an attempt to arrest him, and possibly extradite him to the US.
Chances are high Sweden is under pressure from someone, likely the US, to lock him up. Once arrested and possibly held by phony charges, it would be easy for another country - choose your favorite - to find he has committed 'substantial crimes' against their own law and have him extradited. I'd be surprised if there wasn't an agreement on extradition between most western countries.

Danger is high there won't be a fair trial. This country hates his guts and does not exactly have a recent history of sticking to its own laws when it comes to dealing with people they don't like.

Maybe I am tinfoil-hatted, but the whole thing just smells wayyyy too much of a huge rodent.

[Hissyspit]

58. It STINKS to high heaven.

[glitch]

67. Reeks.

And embarassingly, insultingly, blatant. I expect more sophisticated scenarios from our incredibly highly paid operatives.

Geezus, phoning it in.

[LiberalLovinLug]

64. I think you are right

I'd love to see a wikileak on the back and forth between the US and Sweden right now!

[suzanner]

68. obvious hot button accusation as evidenced by reactions here

Plainly, they want to get him in custody and we'd probably not hear of him again. The charge is one that a lot of people will react to and some may give tips. That's what they hope for. No objectivity for some people on certain issues is a proven fact as we've witnessed over the past decade with Bushies, Palin, swiftboaters, PNAC members, etc...

[tomm2thumbs]

70. Prophetic climax: 3 Days of the Condor *video clip*

and yes, they printed it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eovei355l4o

[crim son]

71. I find it interesting that they've come up with a sex charge,

because that is just about the only offense that seems to get anybody's attention these days. Illegal war, it's okay! Invasion of privacy, no problem! Massacre of innocent civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan, it's to be expected! But a sex crime, now that's something that incites real outrage here in the U.S. and probably abroad. If Assange was being charged with anything else I'd consider the possibility that the charge might be justified. But this, no way. Unless, of course as Cenk says, we have verifiable evidence. Time will tell.

[russspeakeasy]

72. I have secret documents in my basement that could be very embarassing to

the entire Bush administration...  I didn't buy it, but i have
copy of his stupid, simplistic book "Decision
Points" where he admits war to crimes and laughs about
it. This incompetent piece of lizzard dung belongs in the
worst prison in Alabama. My flag will fly again when he is in
jail.

Someone said this earlier, but I have taught my children to
hate him, and I will teach my grandchildren to hate the
sonofabitch.

My nephew came home in 2008 in a box from Iraq. My sister will
never recover. No holiday will ever be the same and pieces of
shit like bush, cheney, fife, wolofowitz and their ilk will
use ther money and connections to insulate themselves from the
real blood and pain and yes, mental anguish that have affected
so many of our young men and women...

Next war, mr/ms politician, your kids and grandkids go first.

[ihavenobias]

74. Kick n/t

[ProfessorPlum]

75. I think the bigger question here is, isn't Assange just the face of

Wikileaks? Surely it isn't just him and some hidden servers. I'm sure there are plenty of people who help him and would take over if the Empire took him out. Isn't it stupid for the Empire to just whack the public face of an underground resistance movement? it isn't like it would stop the document release.

I guess they are just going for the smear.

[pmorlan1]

77. Skeptical....indeed

This reminds me of the color coded Homeland Security alerts that always came out every time Bush wanted to change the subject.

[Enthusiast]

80. Why would anyone trust

the U.S. misinformation machine about any issue? They are proven liars. It is the main function of the tax payer funded C.I.A. propaganda arm. If they say 'black' I assume 'white' is the true answer. If they 'up' I figure the truth is 'down.'