Video of Murders all over Immigration Issues

[SargeUNN]

Run time: 04:56 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVZTlSjFpV4   Posted on YouTube: May 23, 2010 By YouTube Member: Humanleague002 Views on YouTube: 106   Posted on DU: May 23, 2010 By DU Member: SargeUNN Views on DU: 3936

 
I tried to think of a catchy title but I decided to just put a title that tells it like it. These are stories you don't hear on the News but that actually happened. Isn't it time we start learning the real story and fix the problems with logic, intelligence, and understanding instead of a bunch of hotheads, racist, and assumptions?

[Fridays Child]

1. Thanks for posting this. n/t

[Xicano]

2. Yes Thank You For Posting This

K&R So more people can see this.

[pinboy3niner]

3. Thanks, Sarge

That's pretty powerful. It looks like Pearce is not only a racist, he's a misogyinist, as well. I wonder whom he DOESN'T hate?

K&R :kick: (Ed. to add: Nice job on the show yesterday, btw. Keep up the good work!)

[ZombieHorde]

4. Recommended. nt

[stuart68]

5. the real story is

the tens of thousands killed in on an uncontrolled border by drug runners and those who pery on people looking for a better life. A close second to that are the federal politicians who refuse to resolve the issue as their big businesss friends will have to pay better wages and benefits, adn the politicians themselves will have to pay more to get their grass cut and for their arugula.

theses videos point to the crackpots who would have kileled someone anyway (do you really think they waited for the law to pass to do this ?). the reality of federal law is far more racist than the AZ law. Federal law has been found by the supreme court to allow for stops based ONLY on race - at least AZ law prohibits that. Then these clowns in Conress give a standign ovation to a guy who refuses to fix his own back yard while they themselves refuse to addres the core issue or deal with the racist ederal law.

keep buying the spin - this only allows Obama and the dems in congress off the hook. they coudl fix it tomorrow if they wanted to, but they either don't or don't have the cookies to do it.

[SargeUNN]

6. The Problem Needs Real Solutions but

unfortunately the problems are not being addressed and hotheaded people are dominating the discussion. Meanwhile who gets hurts and the added problems just continue. If you didn't hear my show yesterday you can get the podcast http://smcws.podbean.com and hear some of the problems that have already started because of SB1070 from someone who deals with them first hand. It is a 2 hour show so it takes some time, but you will have a chance to learn more than most know. It also has a casuality of this hate in the form of a veteran who was awarded a medal by President Clinton personally as he talks with my guest. The problems are much deeper than most know and while I try very hard to get them out, I am a small voice with limited listeners and so it is just a drop in the bucket.

[stuart68]

12. It is a real problem

and to assign it to the AZ law is purely a distraction. this is a failure at the federal level, and the continued lack of attention allows for a modern slave trade. these folks are cheap labor, and that's what the government wants.

[MODem75]

7. Don't believe the bullshit that hate radio is spreading.

Foxnews would have you believe that the border was a warzone. I travel across the border at Nogales AZ several times a year and feel just as safe there than any part of the US.

[SargeUNN]

8. Thanks for telling that truth

actually the sheriff in that area has stated that crime has been on a decline in the area. That is why McCain had to get Sheriff Baboon (trying to be next Joe Arpaio) to do his dang fence commerical because the sheriff in San Juan Co. would rather tell the truth and work for real answers instead of political advantages like Baboon does.

[stuart68]

10. you're right

the drug dealers have become kinder and gentler...

...head in sand scenario

[AlbertCat]

74. the drug dealers have become kinder and gentler...

Drug dealers......?


What about the real problem of unconstitutional laws passed by unelected governors and white supremacist wife beating GOP cooks?


Try to stay on topic.

[stuart68]

9. I have been there and refuse to go back

the violence in many areas is incredible - this is NOT a right wing thing, it is a fact.

[SargeUNN]

14. I am sure you are more informed than the Sheriff of San Juan Co. but

for some odd reason I tend to believe him more than you. I also live in Arizona and have for 3 years and don't see all the crime although Phoenix is the kidnapping capital of the world I have been told. I cover the issues on my radio show so I am more aware than most, but I also have been exposed to the real problems and see the overwhelming refusal of people to educate themselves. I would be interested in you backing your statement up with some of you first hand stories you have experienced and I will be glad to contact the Sheriff of San Juan Co. Az. to come on my show, let you call in and talk directly to him should he agree to come on. I would love to hear your stories since you seem to be saying you have some.

[stuart68]

16. happy to - and thanks for proving my point

I heard reports that PHX is the kidnapping capital as well. surely this is only a coincidence...

[SargeUNN]

21. which also points to why SB1070 isn't worthwhile

the same things it calls for Joe Arpaio has been doing for years even as the stats grew. The real story is this, the generalization of the problem and the knee jerk reactions, add in the lack of knowledge of the real story you get stupid laws like 1070. I have reported on the real problem for some time now and yet knee jerk reactions, generalizations and pure racism has clouded the issue. I will try to get the sheriff of San Juan Co. on and in full disclosure have tried to get Arpaio on but he refuses to even talk with me.

[stuart68]

24. is San Juan county in AZ ?

[ArizonaLiberal]

72. It is high in kidnapping because of the way they compile the data...

if they find 20 people in a drop house they will usually list them as kidnapping victims, in addition to charging them with conspiracy to smuggle themselves into the country. Thank God the new County Atty. will no longer twist the law to accommodate that charge. The prior CA was the only CA in the state using that statute.

[pinboy3niner]

11. Don't spread the MYTH of "tens of thousands killed" on the border

Violence on OUR side of the border is low.

Conservatives spread this lie to inflame fear and resentment toward Hispanics. IT IS NOT TRUE. And it also is not right to spread this garbage. Here's the reality:

Violence is not up on Arizona border
Mexico crime flares, but here, only flickers

Dennis Wagner - May. 2, 2010 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic .

<excerpt:>

FBI Uniform Crime Reports and statistics provided by police agencies, in fact, show that the crime rates in Nogales, Douglas, Yuma and other Arizona border towns have remained essentially flat for the past decade, even as drug-related violence has spiraled out of control on the other side of the international line. Statewide, rates of violent crime also are down.

While smugglers have become more aggressive in their encounters with authorities, as evidenced by the shooting of a Pinal County deputy on Friday, allegedly by illegal-immigrant drug runners, they do not routinely target residents of border towns.

In 2000, there were 23 rapes, robberies and murders in Nogales, Ariz. Last year, despite nearly a decade of population growth, there were 19 such crimes. Aggravated assaults dropped by one-third. No one has been murdered in two years.

Bermudez said people unfamiliar with the border may be confused because Nogales, Sonora, has become notorious for kidnappings, shootouts and beheadings. With 500 Border Patrol agents and countless other law officers swarming the Arizona side, he said, smugglers pass through as quickly and furtively as possible.


Read more:
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2010/05/02/20100502arizona-border-violence-mexico.html

[stuart68]

13. bad assumption on your part

I tend to count humans on either side of the border. Maybe tens of thousands is off, but thousands and thousands is not an exageration on the MX side.

[pinboy3niner]

22. Bad assumption on your part

The OP is about events in ARIZONA, not about narco-terror in Mexico.

You can't smuggle Mexico's crime stats across the border and try to make them Arizona's--that's illegal.:)

[stuart68]

28. apparently the only border crossing that is still illegal

:)

[pinboy3niner]

32. I appreciate a clever comeback

But you may want to take a look at Pampango's OP from this morning about deportations increasing to record highs under Obama:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8398798

[stuart68]

34. this is all diversion, imho

no one has the courage to address the problem. People start to complain, so the admin issues the appropriate level of air cover until it blows over. The problem is people are dying due to our lack of real action.

Sure, deportations are up, a commission is formed for the gulf disaster, I promise to close guantanamo, we will eliminate don't ask - a lot of noise and no REAL action (with the hc bill defining this strategy).

[pinboy3niner]

41. They tried to address the problem only a short time ago

McCain worked with Kennedy on a bipartisan, comprehensive immigration reform bill, and President Bush supported it. It was defeated by Republicans in Congress.

No one here disagrees with you about the need for reform. But you can't pass legislation on this without bipartisan support. The problem is not lack of courage, it's Republican intransigence.

[stuart68]

43. I assign it to lack of leadership

and as for reps - there is no excuse today.

A little leadership would go a long way.

[blondeatlast]

73. What Problem? I've lived in Arizona for 40 years, grew up in Pinal and Pima counties,

have resided in Phoenix for almost 20 years. Your parroting the rhetoric of John Mccain and JD Hayworth.

[unapatriciated]

76. +1

:rofl:

[stuart68]

15. 24 dead in 24 hours (5/10) - sounds like a vacation destination

CNN) -- Drug violence in the Mexican state of Chihuahua left 24 people dead in the span of 24 hours this weekend, the state attorney general's office said Sunday

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/05/02/mexico.drug.violence/index.html

[SargeUNN]

17. How about it? Would you like to tell your stories and talk to

the sheriff of San Juan Co. Az on air? I can certainly try to arrange it. If you agree to call in and talk to him, I will do all I can to get him on and let you inform him of your knowledge. Also would love to hear your first hand stories of the crimes you have witnessed so you can make us more aware of how you seem to know something more than the sheriff.

[stuart68]

19. you expose your bias by attempting to put words in my mouth

I was willing to have the conversation, once I got my research done so we could disucss facts. You on the other hand appear to have drawn your conclusion already.

I am sure your sherrif friend is a good guy, and if her livers there, I'll defer to his opinion. My point is that the area, in general is a problem.

Not interested in an ambush, thanks anyway.

[SargeUNN]

25. you would not be ambushed on my show

just to let you know I have allowed right wingers to talk on my show without ambushing. Among them is Marsha Blackburn, a local right wing zealot from the Maricopa Community Colleges Governing Board Jerry D. Walker so you can rest assured it won't be a case of ambushing. I challenge your facts because so far you have implied you have first hand knowledge but yet to present it, which leads me to wonder why you can't state them. I would be glad to listen to your stories but if you don't present them it hampers hearing them. So instead of getting defensive, why don't you just tell us your experiences or admit you have none if such is the case. Hardly ambushing to ask that now is it?

[stuart68]

27. Travel to the area

I have traveled on business to PHX, Juarez, Monterrey and other cities. Saw the military presence first hand in MX, heard first hand stories from residents. I am sure the sherrif has better data (still trying to find San Juan County).

I am not defensive, but you sounded convinced violence is down. my "anecdotal" evidence does not support this. I woudl need to do research as anecdotal evidence does not beat research.

[SargeUNN]

31. no just waiting for your first hand experiences

You have implied you have them and I would love to hear them and share them with the Sheriff when I call him if you are willing to call in and talk to him should he agree to call in and talk to the sheriff. I have my doubts about your statements because you don't seem to want to share your first hand experiences you imply and since I have had callers call in claiming experiences they later proved they never had, I tend to prefer them telling their stories before I believe they have any. So please tell your stories and agree to call in if I can get the sheriff on. I don't think that is being too unfair to you, and if you do then I don't know why.

[stuart68]

36. not unfair

but as i mentioned elsewhere - I have anecdotal data (posted in another response) that I would need to back up with more facts (I thnk that is your point as well). For my part, I would love to be proven wrong, but that is not my gut.

[SargeUNN]

38. great then let's do it

agree to call in if I can get the sheriff to come on the show and I will let you talk to him for a decent time. Fortunately I usually can provide the callers more time than more listened to shows so it should give you a chance to talk to someone on the front line for a good while. I would love to hear your conversation with him and hope we can make it happen.

[stuart68]

23. By the way, where is San Juan Co

I couldn't find San Juan County on any AZ maps, which could explain why there is so little violence there ...

http://www.countymapsofarizona.com/

[SargeUNN]

26. Correct it is San Cruz County

my mistake I live in Phoenix and a couple hours from that area.

[stuart68]

29. makes more sense.

and btw - thanks for not being afraid to let opposing voices be heard. this is a pet peeve of mine.

[MODem75]

18. I thought this was about Arizona.

[stuart68]

20. This is in context

I commented that the border is dangerous wit tens of thousands of deaths. I was accused of perpetratign a myth about AZ, but I never directed that comment to AZ. Mexicans are gettign slaughtered on the border. I posted this link to validate my point.

By the way - what are the odds that if anyone who wants to can cross the border, that this viloence will follow ?

[SargeUNN]

30. what happens on the mexican side is up to Mexico

however when the sheriff in Nogales Az. gives stats of his county and they say that it has decreased then that should tell you something. I also have to point out to you that the crime has decreased according to the sheriff and that is before the horrible SB1070 was signed. I also should point out that you can check and see that crime was decreasing in Prince William Co. Va. before a bill much like SB1070 was even discussed.

[pinboy3niner]

37. More from the Assistant Police Chief of Nogalez, AZ

This is from the same link in Post #11:


Assistant Police Chief Roy Bermudez shakes his head and smiles when he hears politicians and pundits declaring that Mexican cartel violence is overrunning his Arizona border town.

"We have not, thank God, witnessed any spillover violence from Mexico," Bermudez says emphatically. "You can look at the crime stats. I think Nogales, Arizona, is one of the safest places to live in all of America."

<snip>


Bermudez said people unfamiliar with the border may be confused because Nogales, Sonora, has become notorious for kidnappings, shootouts and beheadings. With 500 Border Patrol agents and countless other law officers swarming the Arizona side, he said, smugglers pass through as quickly and furtively as possible.

"Everywhere you turn, there's some kind of law enforcement looking at you," Bermudez said. "Per capita, we probably have the highest amount of any city in the United States."

[stuart68]

42. I am confused

help me out here:

the Assist Police Chief, while I am sure he is an honest guy, has a vested interest in good stats. The Philly police showed a marked drop in crime that was eventually attributed to reclassification when reporting (I am sure this is not a rnk and file play, but one from city admins).

Also, he says "Everywhere you turn, there's some kind of law enforcement looking at you". My point exactly. With effective enforcement, the trouble makers tend to just move along as "quickly and furtively" as possible - he even says this. This is hardly an argument for reduced violence. It sounds more like a risk avoidance play, kick the can down the road.

If I were a conspiracy theory guy, I would use this to make the argument FOR the AZ law. All these enforcement folks on te border would be REQUIRED to be a first line of defense, resulting in spiraling stats. I would suspect the folks pouring across the border are not coming over to settle in Nogales. Logic would say they would want to get as far from the border as reasonable as quickly as possible, to an area with denser population, maybe Phoenix ?!?!

I think I am detecting a pattern. I need to look at some stats for surrounding areas before I come to a conclusion, but my gut tells me this is a "gated community" play.

[SargeUNN]

44. now since the stats don't agree with an opinion question the stats?

Is that your statement? You quoted stats earlier that you liked but now you questions stats that you don't like? Is that really where you want to go?

[stuart68]

47. not questioning the stats, questioning the premise

the safest place to live is next to the bank that gets robbed most often. None of the criminals stop to rob the mini-mart on the way out of the bank. Does that mean there is no crime problem ? No.

Do you seriously think the drug runners clear te border and open up shop ? That seems kind of stupid, but I'm not a drug runner.

I will assume your US-side-of-the-border stats are true. that doens't mean the problem is not manifest elsewhere.

[SargeUNN]

49. which brings us to this question

what are the real problems?

[stuart68]

51. slave labor

we need cheap labor to keep our urban lawns trimmed and green. "No one wants these jobs" because they pay slave wages. If we eliminated the source, improved the legal process and made sure the good folks would not be abused and the troublemakers never get here, we could solve a lot of issues - except for the cheap arugula and lawn care....

[SargeUNN]

55. no I mean what are the problems not reasons

You must have misunderstood but the problems are real and too often ignored. I mean the problems.

[stuart68]

58. ok - the problem

we have allowed this to fester for decades.

MX fails to address their issues despite having huge natural resource reserves, and prefers to point the finger at AZ (this week in Congress)

we have no path to legalize the current residents

we have no plan of guest worker, etc

BUT MOST OF ALL:
we have a lack of leadership now.

[SargeUNN]

63. be more narrow on your answer please

Tell who these people are. Tell what their make up is. Tell what they do and don't do from a group viewpoint. Where do they spend their money? How much do they add to an economy? Such as that.

[stuart68]

65. which people

[SargeUNN]

67. the people affected

You have to consider who the undocumented person are and their make up. There are those here on visa both expired and current. There are those who are naturalized citizens and those born here but to undocumented parents. Each group can have different types in them which in a sensible manner would need to be known in order to make a fair and productive law.

[pinboy3niner]

46. I encourage you to research the stats

One thing you'll find is that border enforcement has doubled under the Obama administration. Emphasis has also shifted from workplace raids rounding up undocumented employees, to compliance enforcement against employers.

If you're concerned about crime and criminals, perhaps supporting SB 1070 isn't such a good idea, after all. I'd rather have the cops spend their time investigating crimes and apprehending criminals, rather than spending it checking people's papers under a law that criminalizes not having them.

[stuart68]

50. with you for the most part

except for the law criminalizing not having papers. If you are referring to the AZ law, the fed statute was in existence first and makes it illegal. It is like one more gun law that goes unenforced....

[SargeUNN]

52. are you aware of the actual record of such kinds of bills as SB1070

I encourage you to go to youtube search for 9500 Liberty first before answering, and if you want more proof of how it doesn't work, go back to the last 4 shows I have done on this issue and listen them as well. I even read from a source several places (one even being in Alabama) of how this type law failed them and only created problems.

[stuart68]

54. no time to research righ now

so I will take your word for it that it will not work. My point is that this is not an AZ problem, but a fed problem that Obama does not hav ethe balls to fix so he sets up this red-herring argument with AZ.

[SargeUNN]

57. actually Obama called for it to be addressed this year but

Republicans said no way. So who doesn't have the balls?

[stuart68]

59. you have to be joking !

"called for it to be done" ????? That is NOT leadership. Write the bill and speak to teh public on the how and why. In case you missed it, the dems currently hold both houses and the white house. the repubs are irrelevant expect as an excuse for demo inaction.

[SargeUNN]

66. That is the process

It is up to congress to formulate the legislation not the President. That is how the system has worked for a very long time. We can't just change it because Obama is president.

[pinboy3niner]

62. Please consider the doubling of border enforcement . . .

and the record high numbers of deportations that we've discussed. It doesn't seem fair to me to say that the law is going "unenforced".

Even without immigration reform, it seems that more, not less, is being done to enforce immigration laws.

[Michigan-Arizona]

70. Nogales, Arizona

I don't normally comment on this subject but this time I definitely will. I live in Tucson, Arizona, hubby & I have crossed into Nogales, Mexico more time's than I can count. I am a woman who has went there alone, went with my husband, took family & friend's a zillion time's, we have never once encountered any problem's. In fact it has been the absolute opposite, we were always treated very well & had a very good day. Well since Bush has forced us to have passport's to come back into the USA we have stopped going down there. Hubby & I walked semi deep into Mexico (we did what most people would have advised against) to go to the vet to get some dog medicine & being the only white people for as far as you could see, you guessed it we had no problem's what so ever. Lucky for us a customer translated everything we needed to ask the vet or we would have been up a creek as they say. I know Mexico is having problem's but I don't think I've heard much going on down in Nogales.

[stuart68]

39. agree, but an imaginary line on a map won't keep it there.

i'll take your word on the stats - I haven't researched them.

[SargeUNN]

40. sorry but that is a weak reply

you expressed concerns on the other side and then you were informed of the stats on this side so then you make the argument of some invisible line being the protection factor. I think this a little poor and you certainly have to admit it is not a great reply.

[stuart68]

45. how's this reply

How many criminal acts occur within 100 yards of a bank robery ? my guess is none. IS it because the bank robber has one crime and then goes straight ? No, it is because intense scrutiny discourages other local activity, however the bank robber will strike again.

I am startign to see a pattern. the drug runners and mules are not stupid. Lawlessness across the boreder in MX will not manifest itself 100yards north, it will resurface 100 miles north. The wlak like oyu know where you are going and then get out of town quickly is the rule. Someone even posted an article about Nogales where they make tis exact point.

My point is that there is NO way the viloence does not spill over to the US, but it won't show up in Nogales - that's where all the cops are. It will show up elsewhere.

[SargeUNN]

48. here is how

You mentioned stats from the mexican side and then got stats from the U.S. side which is less than the mexican side. Now the border was drawn long before these situations that make up these stats so obviously something more than an imaginary border existed before to explain the differences. You then bring up that border as a defense while failing to acknowlege that fact until later.

[stuart68]

53. ok, let me try again

violence is spiraling on the MX side.

there is no way an imaqginary line keeps it from spilling into the US

te crime that comes across is manifest elsewhere, other than right on this side of the border, except for the occasional violent execution that we say only happens infrequently.

is my position a little clearer ?

[SargeUNN]

60. I understand your statement but

it is hardly worth much since it is a given the reactions from each side of this border is what creates the stats. It is a worthless point.

[stuart68]

64. sorry. apparently unless you agree it is worthless ?

you started this with "what happens in MX is their issue". It is naive to think that when the neighbor 10 miles north has inneffective control of the border along with more opportunity, that these criminals will not migrate north.

I guess you consider it worthless as it diretly refutes your position ...

[pinboy3niner]

56. The point is that crime is down STATEWIDE, not just in border towns

This contradicts the lie promoted by Pearce, McCain, Brewer and others that violence is increasing, and that SB 1070 was needed to make Arizonans safer. Apart from other serious objections to the law, their justification for it is total BS.

[stuart68]

61. i need to do my research

but will defer to yo ufor now, until I see the stats.

[pinboy3niner]

68. I hope you're not feeling too overwhelmed . . .

from having to reply to multiple posters at once here--I have a hard enough time keeping up with one. :)

While you're researching the issue, keep an eye on DU, too. This is a recurring topic, with new threads posted every day with lots of good information and links.

I've enjoyed our discussion, and I hope you have, too. Hang in there . . .

:hi:

[stuart68]

78. only a little overwhelmed

but did enjoy the discussion.

[SargeUNN]

69. I do have the advantage and I acknowledge that, however

you having this discussion speaks well of you. I have covered this for years, talked to experts, those affected by it, learned the problems, talked first hand to people working with the issues and those living with it. I not only do the work on written material but actual talking with them on air and off. That certainly gives me a built in advantage so I wouldn't expect you to be able to match me. You asking shows you are willing to learn what I can give and it also helps those reading to see how this issue shapes up.

[stuart68]

77. thanks - I always try to be a student

[Loudmxr]

33. I don't get it they accuse Obama for being a Stalinist dictator...

Then when he has a chance to prove it by taking the word of a 5 YEAR OLD and imprisoning her mother the RW complains. :crazy:

[SargeUNN]

35. Yeah interesting too that

while Jan Brewer, McCain, Kyl and the others yell for attention to immigration issues, Obama says he wants it addressed this year and Republicans yell no way. Me thinks they speak with forked tongue.

[ProudProgressiveNow]

71. Good job. Well done. Reced!

[The Backlash Cometh]

75. I can't remember crying this hard for any other DU post.

I didn't realize they were breaking into homes to murder families...and that the murders are not even being looked into.

[EFerrari]

79. Omg, Pearce is a wife beater. Why do all these white supremicists

turn out to be wife beaters?

Horrible.