Ron Paul vs. Michael Moore on Larry King CNN

[Bushknew]

Run time: 10:06 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF8gQfGEvsc   Posted on YouTube: October 30, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: October 30, 2009 By DU Member: Bushknew Views on DU: 4876

 

Good grief, I wanted to hear more of Michael Moore than this

[KT2000]

1. Saw some of this but

had to turn it off.
What a damn fool. He said he was a doctor and he is so ill informed about the state of healthcare in this country it is pitiful. It was like he was talking from an imaginary past.

Why does anyone think anything of this guy? He only knows how to value things by their monetary value.

[Bushknew]

2. The you tube headline is kinda misleading MM vs RP but there is no debate.

sorry

[Piewhacket]

24. apology accepted. this is Ron Paul on Larry King (commenting on M Moore).

You don't have to use the utube title, especially when it is
deliberately misleading (a complete lie intended to induce
viewing).

We are your DU brothers, if you think it important enough for
me to see, I'll have a look. But treat me with respect, please.

Actually, I would have watched this anyway, even if accurately
titled. Even when I disagree with Ron Paul, I am interested in
hearing his view.

Thank you for your contribution.

[cyclezealot]

3. Ron Paul at least is not A gooper corporate dweeb

as are all other GOP clones.. But, his ideas are still kooky..
Said he did not know anyone whose had problems securing medical services should they be poor.
He might have Alzheimer's'. I recall his chief aide had cancer and they needed to raise funds to pay for his aide's medical bills- because he was without insurance. Seems Paul's ex chief of staff died because he did not have insurance..

[Chulanowa]

6. No, no alzheimer's.

Even their young are like this. He's a corporate whore - the problem is just that he is unaware of it, as are most libertarians, freemarketeers, and other various and sundry worshipers of the Invisible Hand and the philosophy of "Fuck you i've got mine"

[cyclezealot]

7. My point Chula.

Ron Paul's chief of state was denied medical care because he did not have insurance. Does he not recall the health concerns of his close associates.Story below..
.
. As the campaign manager for the presidential bid of Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas), Kent Snyder received a lot of credit for raising $35 million from grassroots supporters, a phenomenal accomplishment for an insurgent campaign.

But, like 48 million other Americans, Snyder had no health insurance, and when he died from pneumonia on June 26 after a two-month hospital stay, he left medical bills totaling over $400,000.

It is emblematic of our age that Snyder's boss, Rep. Paul, is a physician.

The story comes from

the Washington Blade:

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6184

[gooey]

9. I'm confused.

If he was denied medical care then what was he doing in the hospital for 2 months?

[zeos3]

40. I'm not sure he was "denied" care

I didn't see anything about that other than in the previous reply's comment but I think the part about "died $400,000 in debt" would explain what he was doing in the hospital for 2 months.

[L0oniX]

18. +1

[FLAprogressive]

25. yes he is. Libertarians like him are corporate whores by default.

[Selatius]

4. Health insurance is an example of a failed market.

There's no competition between health insurance companies. They simply are able to pass on the costs in the form of higher premiums and deductibles to payers because there is no competition that would force them to absorb operating costs and pare down executive compensation and shareholder dividends.

The Public Option was originally conceived as providing that competition, but that can only happen if the Public Option is available to the whole non-elderly population.

[gooey]

11. What about letting insurance companies compete nationally?

[safeinOhio]

16. That worked real good for credit card companies

we use to have 4 or 6% rates when states could regulate rates in their states. When the banks were allowed to cross state lines they all moved to a state that had no regulations(or little) and rates went crazy. What would stop health insurance from the same fate? The big companies are all for crossing state lines and it is not because they'll have to compete and save you money.

[gooey]

32. That is a very good and thoughtful point.

I have to admit I don't know alot about that. I'd have to look more at the circumstances of that situation.

So you're saying at some point in history banks were not allowed to compete nationally, correct? When was this? When were the banks allowed to cross state lines?

[KT2000]

29. States regulate insurance companies

so the desire for national competition just means that the insurance companies would be regulated according to the state with the minimum regulation and protections for consumers.
Those states that have good consumer laws in place would lose the most.

The result would be more people thrown off insurance, claims denied, rates increased - with no oversight. The insurance companies dream come true.

[gooey]

33. Hm. Interesting.

So, this may sound like a stupid question. But why have insurance companies at all? Why not just put away that money spent on premiums in a savings account for the proverbial "rainy day"?

Get rid of the middle man so-to-speak.

[KT2000]

34. You may wish to review

costs for medical care before making a decision to follow that route.
Medical emergencies do not wait until the money has been saved. If you are responsible for a family, it would be difficult to save that much money and house them too.
Also - if you call to make an appointment with a doctor where I live, they will not see anyone who does not have insurance.

I am guessing you are young and still under the delusion that you are in control and bad things cannot happen to you.

[gooey]

35. 30. Is that young?

But plenty of bad stuff has happened to me. There was a time in my life when I didn't have insurance and got care that I couldn't afford so I filled out the necessary paper work, showed that I couldn't pay it and it was taken care of. I've known several people who went through the same thing.

You're right about emergencies but emergency rooms can't legally refuse treatment.

I'm well educated on the cost of medical care. I have several bills I'm still paying. Even WITH my insurance it's still outrageous.

I work hard to be able to keep my insurance though so I can't really complain right now.

But I'm the kind of person where if it got so bad I couldn't afford to live here I would move somewhere else. It's not like I have no other choice.

[KT2000]

36. Not that young

We are in the embrace of corporate medical care and things have probably changed since you got care when you had no money.

Emergency rooms are only required to stabilize life threatening situations now. That is the law. If you go to an emergency room with pains in your stomach and it turns out to be cancer - it will likely be late stage cancer. The emergency room is required to stabilize you and then you would be released with the recommendation to see your doctor for treatment.

People without insurance do not have doctors. You would have to find one who would see you. You would be required to fill out forms accepting liability for the companies that do the lab work. Some doctors and labs may require payment up front or an "insurance" payment of a couple hundred dollars that they will keep while you pay the bills in addition.
When you run out of money and your condition is life threatening you may have to go through Medicaid which will require you to sell off your assets so you can pay them back for the costs of your care. You are not allowed to have a car worth more than a few thousand dollars, savings must be used up and homes sold.

But that is really pointless because a late stage diagnosis for cancer will be terminal in most cases. They will try the chemo and radiation but ultimately they would give you comfort care before you die.

You may want to plan your flight to a country with better healthcare while you are able bodied.

[gooey]

37. So if late stage cancer is terminal

And the only option is to keep you comfortable. Then who gets stuck with the bill after you die?

[KT2000]

38. Your estate (assets) or

state Medicaid if you have already liquidated everything.
If this is a real concern for you, check with the financial office of your local hospitals, the financial office at local nursing homes (comfort care goes there now), and your state Medicaid office. This way you will be prepared.

But - I think you are just getting silly with me here so I will sign off now.

[ProgressOnTheMove]

5. The generosity of Ron's faith is underwhelming.He's happy to take from someone else to get a paychec...

These woolly mammoth elephants are just as hypocritical as it can get. An ordinary elephant doesn't cut it, they need something more prehistoric to describe their party. He's totally wrong pure capitalism restricts peoples freedom, the freedom to drink clean water and air, eat good food and live healthily. Sure, the likes of R. Paul is getting the fruits what would he care but without limitations it can destroy everyone else. Ron Paul must be living in another world not to know people are suffering from his ideology on government. The only thing he's rational on is the war after that it falls apart.

[cyclezealot]

8. Did not Larry King earlier advertise a clash between Moore and

A Wyo Gooper, Sen. Barrasso, I think?
When I tuned into the King program, that is what I expected and we got Ron Paul..

[bulloney]

10. Corporatism is an inevitable product of unregulated capitalism, Mr. Paul.

Look at Wall Street and the banking industry. They had little oversight over derivatives and other baseless investments that collapsed and brought this country's economy to its knees.

When states began deregulating electric utilities, they had skyrocketing increases and learned they had to put in regulatory provisions to keep rates from going out of control.

Libertarians like Ron Paul live in a fantasy world. They think the economic models they taught in Econ-101 represent real world economics. Their models totally disregard the greed factor that throws everything out the window as far as their perceptions of capitalism is concerned.

Paul's argument that we can go to foreign countries for surgery or other health care is simplistic and disingenuous. Not everyone has a visa at their disposal, nor can they afford it. Not everyone has the easy access to the transportation to get to India or wherever that Paul has.

I've never heard a libertarian talk like they're in today's real world.

[gooey]

12. Misunderstanding?

-----"Paul's argument that we can go to foreign countries for surgery or other health care is simplistic and disingenuous. Not everyone has a visa at their disposal, nor can they afford it. Not everyone has the easy access to the transportation to get to India or wherever that Paul has."----

I think he's actually just using that as an example of how a free market works. In essence you get what you pay for. We all know that. Whatever products you buy on a regular basis from the grocery store are based on that idea.

Sometimes we buy for quality sometimes for quantity. Most of us will spend the money if we can afford it. Especially when it comes to something like surgery.

[bulloney]

14. If he's using it as an example of how the free market works, then he's defeating his own argument.

The free market doesn't "work" if people cannot access the product or service, due to price or logistical reasons.

Too many people only look at "free markets" from the perspective of the corporations. The consumer is the key component of sustaining a true free market system.

I still stand that his remarks were disingenuous at best.

[gooey]

30. Exactly

And as long as there are consumers willing to shop at Nordstrom-no matter how expensive it may be-then Nordstrom will continue to charge what they want.

If there are consumers who have the means then there will be proprietors willing to sell.

The only way to avoid that is to take the money away from the consumers so the proprietors go out of business.

[beardown]

26. Free market is a myth

This "Free Market" that is constantly thrown out by repubs and libertarians is only a concept and not a reality. In economics, a free market means much more than sellers are free to sell and buyers are free to buy. Both sides are supposed to have access to the same information and legal resources so the transaction can be carried out on a level playing field.

This works out well enough when you take your wheat to the market and you want to trade it for a cow. If you trade it for a goat, then we can all be pretty sure that it was the buyer's fault for walking away from the deal without a cow. But in modern corporate America, the corporations have million dollar legal teams and million dollar bought and paid for legislatures and the enabling laws that they provide and a virtual monopoly on the local market places which all place the health insurance consumer in the position of being a blindfolded mouse trying to strike a fair "free market" deal with a hungry lion.

Using the "free market" in a conversion about the condition of health insurance in America is on the same par with stating we should disband all law enforcement in the country because people are essentially good. A nice thought, but useless in the real world.

[gooey]

31. So who doesn't have access?

What information?

The idea that a free market is not a reality seems false only because those who have the means to buy will buy. I'm confused by that statement.

By "reality" do you mean it's not tangible?

[d_b]

13. nice headline

[stlsaxman]

15. WHERE'S Michael Moore??? Can I have that 10 minutes back?

Thanks for wasting my time with two stupid old men towing the GOP line....

:eyes:

[safeinOhio]

17. The fact be known

free market capitalism is the death of democracy. The 2 cannot co-exist. The majority will always vote in its' own interest. Wealth will always seek power over the masses.

[dschis]

19. Some adult somewhere has to tell the kids to play nice

[theFrankFactor]

20. This asshole is a wate of time. $3.00/hr FUCK YOU!

That was a purposefully disingenuous point (along with most of the rest of his blubber). He's a loopy dip shit and unfortunately there are many in this county that can't guzzle enough of that bullshit play-pen Libertarian drivel.

[bertman]

21. Dr. Paul lives in that FANTASY WORLD where corporations do the right thing because of

COMPETITION in the marketplace. There is no place on the planet where this happens because there is no such thing as a FREE MARKET. Markets are not controlled strictly by consumers, but also by investors, owners, manufacturers, distributors, marketers, consumer needs/wants, economic pressures.

Wishing for and lobbying for a world where FREE markets rule is like wishing for a world where no law enforcement and no rules are required for societal stability.

Paul and his followers are deluded.

[jeremyfive]

22. Ron Paul is a liar.

My closest friend and best person I ever knew was turned away coldly from Jackson Memorial Hospital in Miami. After 48 hours of waiting for care for his cancer, he was left, blind and frightened and inconsolable, laid out beside the men's room door in an outside lobby. He was never admitted and no treatment for condition was rendered--pain, blindness, wound care. (And of course, they refused to let me know his status, even when I had inquired at least hourly.)

This is INDEED going on in America, despite what liars like Ron Paul and Rush Limbaugh will tell you. They are liars.

This is not 1936 America anymore where kindly caregivers will treat you to the best of their ability. This is corporate America where people are now kicked out, or denied care for any number of reasons--shut out by hospital emergency rooms and insurance companies with their preconditions and loopholes.

And what has many years of Republican executive leadership and principles of a free marketplace put into practice brought us? The 2nd Great Depression, that's what. The Reagan-Bush-Bush Depression.

Lies, pure and simple.

[theFrankFactor]

23. You're Right and Furthermore..

... not being "turned away" is not an acceptable response in and of itself. This is part of the reason costs are OUT OF CONTROL! Someone has to pay. The costs are passed on. AGAIN, further BULL SHIT from this Libtard. I have NO patience for Libertarian drivel.

LISTEN TO MY FUCKING RADIO STREAM!
http://Radio.TheFrankFactor.com
(if ya wanna, that is)

[safeinOhio]

27. The guy is a capitalist utopian, he read Ann Ryan.

Now he needs to read Only the Super-Rich Can Save Us by Ralph Nader. His utopia sounds better and more realistic. I'm sure the truth lies somewhere in between and it tips back and forth.

[GMA]

28. I don't know, folks,

what the answer is, but I don't think the government is any more benevolent than any corporation. Greed for power can be just as tantalizing as money, and the power-hungry are just as determined to get their "share" as the rich. When I look at people like George Soros putting down the "free market" after making billions, I gotta just shake my head in wonder.

[bobbolink]

39. Wouldn't you just LOVE to have Ron Paul as your doctor?

Might as well just put a gun to your head.

And there are still DUers who think he is just great....:eyes: