Why I hate War. Welcome to my Nightmares

[Monkeyman]

Run time: 08:49 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSHx6aHdWi8   Posted on YouTube: March 30, 2007 By YouTube Member: UbuntuBird Views on YouTube: 283196   Posted on DU: April 01, 2007 By DU Member: Monkeyman Views on DU: 3732

 
WE SAID NEVER AGAIN!

[TomInTib]

1. Damn, Brother

I just spent nine minutes being many thousands of miles and almost forty years ago.

That could have been me at the 2:47 mark.

I was in a sort of trance thing watching that.

[Monkeyman]

2. Bro we still remember the Hell we come from

[lyonn]

3. It hurts to watch

And you gotta know it is no better in Iraq......

War is insanity.....

[blondie58]

4. I have no words- this video

left me shell shocked.

[lyonn]

9. I hated that VN war then and just knew this country would never

get involved in another war unless we were attacked. Most on this site knew Iraq didn't attack us or had any plans too, and now most of America knows bush lied his way into a war. The idea of bush now toying with the idea of bombing Iran makes my mind scream.

[Hissyspit]

5. We did say never again, many times.

Fucking amazing, isn't it?

[Jcrowley]

6. K&R n/t

[ms liberty]

7. K&R n/t

[WiseButAngrySara]

8. K&R.n/t

[spindrifter]

10. I keep wondering whether

things would be different now if all of Bush and his croneys had taken advantage of their opportunity to serve their country in Vietnam.

[lyonn]

12. Without a doubt! But when you are a rich coward

you get to skip those nasty, deadly wars. (sarcasm of course)

[stillcool]

11. speaks volumes...

K & R

[Glorfindel]

13. I hate it, too..it's true that WE said "never again"

But the monsters who chose to invade Iraq were never in Vietnam and have nothing but contempt and derision for those of us who were. Thank you for posting this powerful video, my brother, and may your nightmares diminish in frequency and in intensity. I keep dreaming that I'm back there and nothing has changed except that I'm OLD and can't get around the way I used to.
:kick: :patriot:

[JohnnyLib2]

14. That video is powerful as can be and every bit has been in front

of us for 30+ years. You have to wonder if
Bush, Cheney and gang ever really have paid attention all these years or ever really listened to the veterans. Sure doesn't seem like it.

[frogcycle]

21. the answer to that is

an emphatic NO

they do not listen to, nor pay attention to, anything that contradicts their perverse world view.

they are zealots - reason is foreign to them.

we can only hope that the REAL lesson of history to be learned is not ignored. It is not "don't enter into a war such as this again" - that lesson was given and ignored, and two lessons can also be ignored. The REAL lesson is to the electorate. To every US citizen: Take elections seriously. They matter. They are a matter of life or death. The can determine the future of the world. Electing an incompetent zealot with no qualifications is BAD. If you vote for someone you know nothing about because he "seems more like a guy you'd rather have a beer with" then your citizenship should be revoked and you should rot in hell.

[Monkeyman]

22. Well Said

[Breeze54]

15. Hugs ....

'War is Too Easy'

by David Krieger,
February 2003

If politicians had to fight the wars
they would find another way.

Peace is not easy, they say.
But it is war that is too easy –

too easy to turn a profit, too easy
to believe there is no choice,

too easy to sacrifice
someone else’s children.

Someday it will not be this way.
someday we will teach our children

that they must not kill,
that they must have the courage

to live peace, to stand firmly
for justice, to say no to war.

Until we teach our children peace,
each generation will have its wars,

Will find its own ways
to believe in them.

http://www.wagingpeace.org/articles/2003/02/00_krieger_war-too-easy.htm




Recommended

[ClayZ]

16. K and R

[madrchsod]

17. we said never again but it did.

it was done by those who never put their principals or life on the line nor will never face the truth -they were cowards then and they are cowards now.

[lyonn]

18. I have a question Monkeyman and TominTib

Were the VN vets really spit on and disliked? I never saw it. It never made sense and figured it was politics at work but couldn't figure out why those stories were going around if they were not true? My gawd, the two of you either were drafted or felt it was your duty to protect, I so respect and honor you for that. Why would a society blame their military? Or was it lies?

[Monkeyman]

19. You can read about the Lies at

http://www.veteransforamerica.org look at the Majors post Bobby give all the details of why it started. I was called a Baby Killer even when I was VVAW

[Monkeyman]

20. To all you have made this old vets heart grow. Thank You

[lyonn]

30. It is a complicated situation, it appears that when the VN vets

protested and told what was really happening over there the govt. didn't like them disputing how well the war was going according to them. Kerry was a good example of testifying and being trashed in the news for his testimony. The rules of war is not like the rules in a football game. One doesn't have to be in a war to know that all is not fair, it is kill or be killed. When you don't have uniforms to identify your enemy then you have big problems. Iraq and VN perfect examples.

So, if the troops were spit on it was due to propaganda from our govt., right?

[Monkeyman]

32. You might want to see

Winter Soldier if you can

[vietnam_war_vet]

38. RE Did Americans citizens really spit on, curse at Vietnam War Vets?

Renowned columnist Bob Greene asked a similar question in one of his syndicated columns back in the late 1980s. Boy, did he kick a hornets' nest! He got thousands of replies from Vietnam War Vets (yes, including one from me).

He was so moved by the scope of the emotional response that he had received that he selected a few hundred of the letters/comments that he had received and had them published in his 1989 book, "Homecoming: When the Soldiers Returned from Vietnam." My missive to him can be found on page 199.

He included letters about Vietnam War Vets being verbally and even physically abused by our citizens....other letters about Vietnam War Vets being subjected to outright discrimination and denigration after returning home....and even some letters from Vietnam War Vets who said they had never been mistreated by their fellow citizens in any manner.

I highly recommend reading Greene's book. -- Michael

[lyonn]

51. My conclusion:

There are many idiots in this country, unable to comprehend glaring reality. History is repeating itself and this Iraq war is proof. Some people will never get it. People, fodder to this admin., are to be lied to in order to reach "their" goals, like changing the middle east. What stupidity and arrogance.

Thanks for reply, and, so, so sorry that it happened. I did see some real "stoners" come back from that war. Gee, I wonder why?

[bonito]

23. R&R n/t

[TahitiNut]

24. 38 years... like yesterday... and almost like it never happened.

... and we haven't learned a fucking thing. not a fucking thing.

[TomInTib]

28. Isn't it weird?

You know, that feeling you get when you find yourself way-back-when and wonder if it really happened?

You know, that momentary suspension of belief?

Well, that's where we are now.

But it's more like total suspension of belief.

And some of us just keep on fighting.

I guess that is just our lot in this life, TahitiNut.

Tom

[TahitiNut]

45. It really is. The times it gets 'real' are strange, too.

Sometimes when I'm tired and somewhere between dozing off and being awake I get a "here and now" flash and it's like a kind of transport thing - a Tardis. Sometimes when my environment gets filled with reminders, like the other day when we had a huge downpour and it rained straight down in buckets I was back at Long Binh for the monsoon for a moment.

The really scarey part, for me, is that sometimes I actually feel like I miss it - nostalgia. That's just wrong - not sane to feel that way.

Most of the time it's almost like it happened to someone else - and I sorta play it in my head like I was a 2-legged movie camera. I guess that's what I worked hard to achieve (mentally) for the first 10-15 years I was back.

[Monkeyman]

29. It was hard to post and see again

But we need to show that this war is the same if not worse. Lies should never be used to kill young men and women

[Dyanci]

43. Nope, we never learn. War after war after war...................

[Morgana LaFey]

58. We did -- one thing, I think.

NOT to blame the troops.

Everything else, lost.

[ellisonz]

25. K & R

[gratefultobelib]

26. My brother was there. Thank you for the video.

[Monkeyman]

27. You are welcome

[wundermaus]

31. What a punch in the gut...

This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end
My only friend, the end

Of our elaborate plans, the end
Of everything that stands, the end
No safety or surprise, the end
I'll never look into your eyes...again

Can you picture what will be
So limitless and free
Desperately in need...of some...stranger's hand
In a...desperate land

Lost in a Roman...wilderness of pain
And all the children are insane
All the children are insane
Waiting for the summer rain, yeah

There's danger on the edge of town
Ride the King's highway, baby
Weird scenes inside the gold mine
Ride the highway west, baby

Ride the snake, ride the snake
To the lake, the ancient lake, baby
The snake is long, seven miles
Ride the snake...he's old, and his skin is cold

The west is the best
The west is the best
Get here, and we'll do the rest

The blue bus is callin' us
The blue bus is callin' us
Driver, where you taken' us

The killer awoke before dawn, he put his boots on
He took a face from the ancient gallery
And he walked on down the hall
He went into the room where his sister lived, and...then he
Paid a visit to his brother, and then he
He walked on down the hall, and
And he came to a door...and he looked inside
Father, yes son, I want to kill you
Mother...I want to...

C'mon baby, take a chance with us
C'mon baby, take a chance with us
C'mon baby, take a chance with us
And meet me at the back of the blue bus
Doin' a blue rock
On a blue bus
Doin' a blue rock
C'mon, yeah

Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill

This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end
My only friend, the end

It hurts to set you free
But you'll never follow me
The end of laughter and soft lies
The end of nights we tried to die

This is the end

[dipsydoodle]

33. K&R

.

[varkam]

34. K&R - I'm so sorry for the things that you and others have gone through

I am too young to have known what that war was like, and I know that sorry is cheap but - unfortunately - it's all that I have.

Thanks for posting.

[Sapphire Blue]

35. ((((((((((Monkeyman))))))))))

K&R; thank you for posting this. :hug:

[hootinholler]

36. The thing that struck me is

Those images are news photos. We get nothing from Iraq, really. There's no close coverage to speak of.

I remember seeing a piece on every evening news show almost every night. Bob Hope USO shows, etc.

Perfect song for it to.

Thanks MonkeyDudeSan!

-Hoot

[driver8]

37. Those of you who were in Vietnam, I cannot imagine the things you have seen

and what you've been through. Those images are so powerful and so sad...I cannot fathom what it must have been like to live with war day in and day out.

It fucking sucks that another generation is learning what you learned about war...

[Decruiter]

39. K & R

Thank you. For all you do.
Most memorable experience I've had on the Web in a while.

Decruiter

[ClayZ]

40. MonkeyMan

:cry: it never ended ... did it? I am 57 and I feel like I have been protesting for 40 years.

My ex-husband was stationed in Germany and I lived there too. We saw many of our friends go and not come back.

I am glad you came back, MonkeyMan.

[cascadiance]

41. Monkeyman! Powerful stuff. You just revived my own nightmares I've had lately!

Of my potentially forever unanswered questions from that time and from that part of the world when I lived near there myself.

A few months ago, I saw the documentary "Citizen Stan" on Link TV which is talked about at this web site link:

http://www.citizenstan.com/

(BTW, those wanting to see this film. It is being aired on Link TV again this week, starting on Monday morning at 7:00 AM EST)

"Citizen Stan" Stanley Sheinbaum is a great American that more people should know about. What floored me though while watching it was finding out that he was the head of the "Vietnam Project" at Michigan State University back in the late 50's. In the middle video clip on that page with Robert Scheer in it MSU's "Vietnam Project" is mentioned as a front for the CIA in its dealings with the South Vietnamese government which went so far as to being involved with their torturing of Viet Cong, etc. too. This hit me personally hard! Since my father signed on with MSU in the mid 60's not long after this project happened there.

http://www.cia-on-campus.org/msu.edu/msu.html

There are a number of names in this article that I recognize that my father worked with while he worked in Thailand in the mid 60's and we were there as a family with him then during the height of the Vietnam war when I was just a young child then. I traveled to Cambodia along our family before John Kerry and the American forces moved in there.

I'm now troubled by wondering how many folks from the CIA were still at MSU from the Vietnam Project days, that also could have carried over to when many of the same people including my father and our family also were in Turkey a few years later (now a hotbed of controversy too).

I've been in contact briefly with the filmmaker as well as Sheinbaum on this, and am hoping that in the coming months I'll be able to discuss it more with him to get these questions answered. I'd ask my dad, but he's got alzheimers now, and his memory of that time period is probably now shot for the most part. My Mom was also shocked when she heard me relay this, but she wasn't surprised given that her more activist sister at the time we went over there speculated that we were tied in with the CIA then (perhaps she read the Ramparts article mentioned here).

Every time I see photos like this, it makes me wonder how much I was living close to some of the seeds of that mess too!

There... You all know now another thing that's been bugging me over the last few months!

[Hot_Wheels_Dude]

42. This was well worth the wait

Monkeyman..... Wow!

On the slowest dial-up in the world here (at&t) and it took nearly 2 1/2 hrs to download, but that was very moving and well worth waiting for.

Thank You, Monkeyman :patriot:

[SalmonChantedEvening]

44. Monkeyman, for your Brothers and for America

Never Again.

I wrote this a couple months ago, don't know if you saw it when I posted.

The Soldier (To the tune of The Boxer – Simon & Garfunkel)

I am just a war toy, and for freedom I am told
There’s a plan off in the distance
And my ticket marked for home has been held back again
I would protest, but a man here may not boo nor cheer
He can only do his best la la la la la la la

Half a world away from my family and the arms that bring me joy
In a constant state of danger
In a riot zone they call a nation, none are spared
Friend or foe, Seeing death and its disorders
These abandoned people know
There is loss in faces everywhere I go

(ch)
Kill and die, kill and die all for a lie
Kill and die, all for a lie, all for a lie, all for a lie

As the chaos round me rages, and with every mournful sob
There is no safe cover
Just a common dread that bores a hole inside of you
It’s surely clear, that what comes to them in waking
Is another day of fear la la la la la la

Now I’m putting on my daily face
To mask the fears I own
And I walk the city haunted by what waits for me
Waits for me…. The unknown

In the maelstrom walks a soldier and a patriot betrayed
And he buries what he finds here
From every friend that now is gone
To wounded children crying, deep inside he’ll hide the pain
And his leaving means the grieving in a dark place will remain

Kill and die, kill and die all for a lie
Kill and die, all for a lie, all for a lie, all for a lie

Kill and die, kill and die all for a lie
Kill and die, all for a lie, all for a lie, all for a lie

[westerebus]

46. Comming up on 39 years.

And it just won't go away.

[Jack Rabbit]

47. ( )

.

[Monkeyman]

48. WOW I just came home Thank You All

[The Wizard]

49. Every day in Vietnam I thought of home.

Every day since being home I've thought of Vietnam.
Several years ago a president from Texas took office under unusual circumstances and then started a war predicated on lies and fear, and because a ruthless dictator enslaved his people, and because we were bringing them democracy and freedom, and because..........................
When will they ever learn?

[WillyT]

50. Wow !!! - K & R !!!

Do you guys remember this film?



Link: http://www.criterionco.com/asp/release.asp?id=156

Best Documentary 1974. Very controversial.

I remember seeing it in college. Totally kicked my ass.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

52. Hell is that place

you never recover from or forget.

[Joe Chi Minh]

53. General Smedley Butler's insights into the causes of wars of aggression

were the ultimate eye-opener to me.

It is all so simple. Industrialists lusting to exploit their people at home and foreigners abroad, for ever greater profits, whatever the cost to either, in any terms at all. Devils incarnate.

......
"Threaten the wild beast that dwells in the reeds,
the bands of the mighty and lords of the peoples,
Let them bow down offering silver
Scatter the peoples who delight in war
......."

Psalm 67(68):27 -30

A daily prayer for us, in the light (darkness) of the current situation in the Gulf.

[Irishonly]

54. I Have No Idea Of The Hell You Went Through

I couldn't make it through the whole video. What I do remember is the fear the guys in my class had when it was time for the lottery.

I lost a cousin in Nam. I loved him very much. He was five years older than I was and he was a great guy. He was in Nam less than a day before he was killed. His body nor his tags have ever been recovered. I became anti-war on June 30, 1967.

[tblue]

63. So sorry for your loss. I lost a cousin, too. He didn't die there, but he was never the same,

he never married or worked again, and lived the rest of his life with his dad, who was broke and pretty ill himself. My cousin was a beautiful young man. What a waste. Obama was right about those lives lost in Iraq being wasted.

[The Doctor.]

55. K+R in rage.

They just dug in deeper after 'nam. The warmongers, the chickenhawks that profit from spilling blood just learned more tricks and bought up the media.

Who is that in the picture at 7:15?

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

56. Saigon. Still only Saigon.

Shit.



They didn't listen when we said Never Again. Now we have to kick their asses out of Washington again.

[DeepModem Mom]

57. K&R

[bridgit]

59. peace to you Mm, peace to you all, peace to us all, peace to this world please...

i said "please"...k&r'd :patriot:

[Monkeyman]

60. 40 years from now will these kids have nightmares come back

Or will this Country Learn

[Jcrowley]

61. KIcking

[Redstone]

62. Fuck me. I thought I'd sleep tonight, but then I saw the picture of those guys riding the skids.

Fuck me.

Redstone

[Jcrowley]

64. Bump