Okay, okay - I admit it: Clinton is winning!*

[jedreport]

Run time: 00:25 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSwcv7vE4xQ   Posted on YouTube: April 25, 2008 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: April 25, 2008 By DU Member: jedreport Views on DU: 3161

 
*Restrictions and conditions do apply. Please read the fine print.**

**Proper use of this video requires insertion of the word "not" before "winning".

[grantcart]

1. lol

[GoddessOfGuinness]

2. ~~~

:rofl:

[The Wielding Truth]

3. Great! So funny. Wish all this fuzzy stuff would come with

disclosures.:toast: :rofl:

[Ned_Devine]

4. That was awesome

[patrice]

5. "those who voted" =/= caucus states where voters actually talked to one another

about the issues and the candidates, a qualitatively more adult behavior, that has much more to do with us and who we are to one another, than avoiding taking a public stand and relating to others by using a secret vote.

[jedreport]

6. as pocketnines says: does mn = 1/4 of mo?

[patrice]

8. I'm tired and dense . . . . ? nt

[jedreport]

9. explanation

MN = minnesota
MO = missouri

MN = caucus
MO = primary

under HRC's definition of votes, MO counts 4x MN because there were 4x more votes cast there, but they are both the same size state.

[patrice]

11. Thank you very much.

;(

I love the caucuses; I think they are more Democratic than what is quite likely a high proportion of knee jerk votes, because you have to deal with people who have different ideas and different perspectives on the candidates.

[Alii]

12. And therefore...

considerably more intelligent.

[Hillary by 10]

14. Caucuses evaluate the supremacy of activist mobs

Since when is that American democracy.

[mikehiggins]

15. Wow! What an elitist attitude.

People vote with their feet. If a caucus voter was concerned enough to get off his/her butt and take part in the legitimately designed system, so be it. Everyone could play but you can't win it unless you are in it.

[Hillary by 10]

16. Fine, then let's have an entire general election in the downtown convention center

The turnout would be about 2%. Most people in America have lives. One man, one vote, one lever, secret ballot - that's American Democracy, and it works pretty well. You don't need to have your boss lording over you watching which placard you wave. You don't need to have one mob haranguing another in order to properly govern this republic, anymore than you need RvW decided by vociferous and combative street demonstrations.

People don't vote with their feet, they make noise with their feet. They stomp with their feet.

They vote with their #2 pencils.

[kevinbgoode]

18. We need to count the votes of people who didn't go vote

in Florida and Michigan. . .because they knew the primary wasn't going to count. They should not be disenfranchised simply because they followed the rules.

[Hillary by 10]

28. Good idea, let's have redos!

Oh wait, hope and change guy is against hope and change when hope and change does not serve his personal interest. We should vote for Obama why?

[kevinbgoode]

38. ...because Hillary was incapable of closing the deal

and on her own schedule, either. When someone has that much name recognition among the American people, a husband who was President to campaign for her, and was the declared frontrunner from the beginning, it is obvious the negatives about the candidate are far too high for her to be elected.

[Chiyo-chichi]

17. To paraphrase Jon Stewart...

those "activists" don't matter. They're just the people who care the most.

Welcome to DU.

[Hillary by 10]

23. Is there a spot on the general election ballot where you rate how much you "care"?

If not, then "care the most" is irrelevant.

[D23MIURG23]

19. Since when has it ever been an issue before?

[Hillary by 10]

24. It matters when people argue "delegate lead" as an imaginary rule bound factor

The actual rule is 2025. Not delegate lead. Since 2025 is not going to be met, then delegate lead is only a sub-factor, as much a sub-factor as popular vote, electability, state's won, and momentum. It is a sub-factor for the super delegates to chew on, not slavishly obey.

When your candidate squashes the vote in FL and MI with his lawyers, while refusing to agree to count the states as is, which he has done, then the sham nature of "caucuses" becomes an issue. Since when? Since Fl and Mi, that's when.

Moreover, a candidate arguing hope and change, yet stifled by petty rules (by choice), has no clue how to deliver, or when to deliver "change". Hope means democracy, change means overturning the status quo (especially bad rules). Obama had a glaring opportunity to act according to his message and instead he chose disenfranchisement and status quo, making him perhaps worse than "politics as usual" because he is hypocritically marketing the reverse. So why should we vote for him! The first instance - the very first chance - we get to see his so called "change" prowess, and he serves only himself. That is indefensible, and atrocious. It is every reason in the world to oppose his meaningless candidacy.

[DWilliamsamh]

29. How dare he not accept a change in the rules that ONLY benefits Sen Clinton!

The nerve of that man. And to top it all off - even after the controversy started by his opponent, where does he get off saying he'll follow what ever solution the DNC comes up with? Why one might just call him uppity.

[Yes We Did]

35. I have to ask...

which reincarnation are you?

[D23MIURG23]

39. One who has already been tombstoned.

Better luck to him/her in the next incarnation eh?

:rofl:

[D23MIURG23]

37. Don't preach to me about my own state's primary (MI).

It was party leaders in my state who made our primary irrelevant, by holding the primary before they were allowed. Our party leaders broke the rule, and they knew the consequences. Clinton raises this issue because it benefits her given that she was the only major candidate on the ballot, left on because "Michigan won't count for anything anyway". Contrast that with the "undemocratic" caucuses that you hilariously deride.

Your argument is indefensible and atrocious just as single candidate elections are the definition of meaningless. If this sort of cynical self-interested electioneering is how Hillary plans to "fight for me" she can save it. I have no use for her dishonest semantics, just as she has no use for Michigan's honest input into this primary.

[treehuggnlibrul]

20. I'm so tired of people trashing caucuses

I voted in a caucus. As did hundreds of other people in my small community. Hillary miscalculated, and her campaign should have been interested in ALL votes, not just those she thought important enough for her. Activist mobs? That's what you call the 68-year-old woman who sat next to me? My MIL who went with me? The neighbors and their children who stood in line (just like primary goers), and packed the lunchroom at the elementary school? The people who were there for both Hillary and Barack? We were just... well... what? These were Democrats taking part in a democracy. If the caucuses had surged for Hillary, you wouldn't be whining about it. I'm sick of having MY vote and MY experience demeaned by elitist snobs who only wish to count "BIG" states.

[Hillary by 10]

26. The 68 year old woman was by far the minority

and you know it.

Hillary miscalculated how? She won the popular vote in Texas, which means SHE WON Texas, yet lost a delegate victory in a silly "elementary cafeteria school" caucus that had no reflection whatsoever of the choice of the larger majority who had already committed their votes. That alone reveals the intrinsic falsehood that is the caucus. Should Hillary have "calculated" better to reject majority opinion for minority enthusiasm? Why. Should she have tailored her message to EXCLUDE those unable to participate in a lengthy, boisterous, nearly day or night long event; in favor of the affluent, younger, mobile, and suburban. That's HIGHLY anti-democratic. What country is that! The larger voting public who chose Hillary was overruled for a small minority of gym packing activists, and yet you cry to me about "elitism!". How absurd. You understand "elitism" about as well as you grasp "democracy".

If I had left my job to go to the Texas Caucus for the night I WOULD HAVE BEEN FIRED. And so you are telling me that my vote does not count! It is the SAME as FL and MI. Apparently, I have to go homeless in order to significantly participate in democracy. I can't just vote. I have to risk my livelihood. Hillary, poor her, should have calculated better by ignoring my pointless vote, like you did.

And did Obama "calculate" well! "Calculation" is a form of pandering and strategy, so we are agreeing that Obama merely pandered and politicked his way to your vote by selective demographic plucking, to the exclusion of the larger vote at stake. If so, he is an anti-democratic elitist who panders to delegate calculus above public will. Sounds great, if the general election was anywhere in the same universe. Maybe, if he loses Ohio to McCain, he can tell a sliver of his voters to rush off to the Exposition Center and change the results by stomping their feet and throwing Mardi Gras beads in a camp vs camp battle royale.

ALL votes is best expressed, clearly, in the words "popular vote". The primary far more closely resembles that than a caucus. It's so close, it's indistinguishable.

As well, your implication of big state "elitism" is rhetorical nonsense. The "big states" are important because they are swing states, and thus more valuable to the general election map than Idaho, South Dakota, and Delaware. Do some research on just about any general election in American History. You might want to check out the results of the last 2. Pay close attention to FL and OH. Go ahead and ignore Idaho, South Dakota, and your Junior High Basketball court.

[DWilliamsamh]

31. Obama is the elitist?

Obama? The guy who was raised partially on food stamps? The Guy who decided to take an $8,000 dollar a year car using a $1,000 dollar car after graduating as the President of the Harvard Law review instead of the 6 figure starting salary that he would not have had to even break a sweat to command? That Obama?

Vs.

Regular Jane, varmint hunting, Hillary Clinton whom NO ONE believes would have even been elected Senator had her last name not been Clinton? Who Spent her entire adult life as the wife of a politician who was Governor and President of the United States who served on the board of Wal-Mart while that company was shipping jobs overseas, and destroying small town American entrepreneurs, while simultaneously employing illegal immigrant labor and engaging in illegal anti-union intimidation of its work force? Oh and did I mention that while Hillary was living in the Governor's mansion and the White House Obama was serving on boards of organizations that did nothing but help the poor and homeless?

Wow seems like you really nailed the difference between the two candidates.

[Citizen_Penn]

25. Since 1776.

Hillary is not well liked by those aware and awake.

Hillary is not well liked by those who pay attention.

HILLARY IS NOT A DEMOCRAT.

[Hillary by 10]

27. 55% of PA is unaware, unawake, and they do not pay attention?

YOU ARE NOT A DEMOCRAT.

[Yes We Did]

34. No, it just that 3/4 of her voters there are racists.

Sad but true. 3/4 polled said they voted for her because Obama is black and she is white.

[hisownpetard]

30. Hillary IS well liked - by Rush Limbaugh, Pat Buchanan, John McCain, Joe Scarborough

and many others who push the Republican agenda.

[jwlashta]

32. Agreed

The only reason Clinton continues to be in the running is because of her name--Clinton.

[Yes We Did]

33. Yeah, forget those activists; the people who care the most.

We don't need them.

:sarcasm:

[XtraProudDem]

36. As Jon Stewart said...

Who are activists anyway? Only THE PEOPLE WHO CARE THE MOST.

Oh, yeah - that's right - I forgot. You've thrown Jon Stewart under the bus, along with KO.

[madrchsod]

7. very good

i`ll have to listen again cause i missed some of it..those dam kids talk to fast

[peoli]

10. lol

[bobbert]

13. This one is great!

thanks for the laugh

[RBInMaine]

21. SLICK HILLY STRIKES AGAIN !! THE LATEST SPIN SPIN SPIN.

[RBInMaine]

22. They should call her Hillary SPINton.