"Let Us Do An Easy Exercise In Racial Purity."

[cali]

"It is this: Can you give the names of your eith great-grand parents? The betting is eight to one that you cannot. The Royal famil could, some aristocrats could, but most of would fail.

<snip>

We don't know what our ancestors were like or what our descendants will be like. We only know that we are all of us mongrels, dark, and light, who must learn not to bite one another."

I just like this little piece. It comes from E.M. Foresters "Two Cheers For Democracy", and was written in 1939.

So, can anyone name their eight great-grand parents? I know I can't.

[dsc]

1. I can provide most of the last names but none of the first

[elehhhhna]

2. I can and also have the fam. tree back to the 1600's

[eyesroll]

3. Hm...

Etta W and Morris K.
Anna W and Samuel R.

Frieda S and Harry C.
??? and ??? W.


I can name six.

[MrMonk]

4. I could look them up.

But only because we have birth certificates for three of my grandparents and naturalization papers for the fourth. In 1939, the date of the quote, people would have been much less likely to have such information available.

I think the Forester must have had in mind the racial purity laws of Germany and, possibly, the miscegenation laws of the U.S., both of which defined race in terms of the identity of the great-grandparents. His point was, probably, that under such definitions, most people could never be quite sure what their racial heritage actually was.

[cali]

6. No, no, no.

This was written by Forester in England. People then and there were more likely to know these things, not less, but of course, that's hardly the reason he wrote it.

On edit: I should have done a better job reading your post, You're absolutely right as to why he wrote it.

[MrMonk]

8. So, what did he mean?

And did he mean eight great-grandparents or eighth great-granparents?
And why are you picking on me?

[cali]

10. I'm not picking on you

and please see my edited post which is in response to your edited post, though I actually don't think now that I read your post wrong initially..... oh, never mind.

[SmokingJacket]

5. Gosh, I can.

Then again, I'm a history and genealogy buff. I'm fascinated by the weird mix of people that came together to form what I know as my family....

[benburch]

7. I can.

We have family trees on both sides.

[malaise]

9. I can

and it's an amazing mix of several races.

[Gormy Cuss]

11. I can name some of them, but I'm a family historian.

No royals or aristocrats among those I've found. Even my Mayflower ancestor came over as an indentured servant.

There are many lines where there just isn't a trace however. Before mandatory civil records the best hope was to have ancestors who died with assets and a will, and that was not the case with most poor people.

[Nobody]

12. Ever hear about the Orphan Train?

Grandma was a rider. She was left as an infant at a church. She's a root, not a branch. That side of the family stops with her. I'm second generation American, counting from most of my lineage. Sadly, I can only name one great grandparent, my dad's mother's mother.

Many royals trying to name all of their greats would still come up short. Many don't have eight greats. When you consider how the aristocracy thinks they're better than you and want to keep their blood pure, they tend to inbreed. This explains why a lot of royals have problems with hemophilia and retardation. Somehow, the ancient Egyptians managed to inbreed without all these problems. I wonder how.

[LouisianaLiberal]

13. What was the orphan train?

The Egyptian royalty did have many problems associated with inbreeding. And I have a feeling that if DNA analysis had been available, many European royals would have found out that some of their ancestors were not who they thought they were.

[Nobody]

17. I think you're right about that

Many of us probably have ancestors other than who we think they are.

(The Orphan Train ran in the last part of the 1800s and the first few years of the 1900s. Orphanages placed the kids on trains headed to the midwest farming communities. The farms needed people, and the kids needed homes. Many kids were formally adopted and considered part of the family. Others were treated as indentured servants. Families could sign up to take a kid, and sometimes they took one look at the kid and changed their mind. Then somebody else could step forward and claim the child. The ones who didn't get chosen moved on to the next town. Grandma was one of the lucky ones. She was adopted into her family.)

[LouisianaLiberal]

18. Wow, that's fascinating

Thanks.

[Jigarotta]

14. my greatgreatgreat...great... grandparents came from

somewhere in Ethiopia.

as everyone else's did.

personal family tree is way short of that.

we are all the same.

[cali]

16. "we are all the same."

Exactly. And that, of course, is what Forester was saying when he wrote:

"We are all of us mongrels...... and must learn not to bite one another."

[Jigarotta]

19. as strong as that instinct should be

apparently, the kennel masters throughout history know what is in their interest and know how to train us to bite each other instead of biting them.

[troubleinwinter]

15. Yes, I can, and I knew and remember five of them.

[long_green]

20. I can't name any of my great grandparents

nm