If our OUR military is forced to choose between the regime and,...

[Just Me]

,...their oathes, including the interests of their own people,...

Even if these radical neoconster fuckers push the line,...even if those assholes cause a temporary constitutional crisis,...I believe there are FAR MORE MEMBERS who would hold to their oathes and peacefully end a cabal's abuse of power.

I've ALWAYS admonished suggestions of a "military coup" in this country. However, I do believe the cooperation of all honorable members of our military may be necessary to control the BushCO/neoconster regime which has proven itself a dictatorship via fraud,...a cabal antithetical to democracy or freedom or the "rule of law" or respect for human rights or a desire for an economic level-playing field.

That's my opinion. There's been a gathering force, I've always known, against an egregiously abusive leadership wreaking so goddamn much damage here and abroad.

[happyslug]

1. Dupilcate subject

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x878393

[Just Me]

5. They would have to choose "sides" to AVOID a real military coup.

e.g. respect the rule of law broken by their CIC or follow orders by their CIC.

If the perfect storm I anticipate fully brews, the military will simply BACK the law, both constitutional and federal, to remove a treasonous CIC and his regime. HOWEVER, the regime has its "loyals" who may create a constitutional crisis. THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

[BlooInBloo]

2. Well apparently the facts are for door #3....

... according to Seymour Hersch, a number of top military brass are threatening to quit if gw doesn't get rid of the nuke idea...

And that's more significant than it might sound at first blush...

[Just Me]

8. What will they do after they "quit"?

:shrug:

bitch?

[Selatius]

3. I don't remember senior US officers and generals doing so in Viet Nam

That was the last time the US got itself into a cluster-fuck of a war, and that war ended 58,000 American lives and the lives of at least 2,000,000 innocent civilians.

I remember many rank-and-file soldiers fragging their front-line officers or deserting to get out of the war, but I don't recall senior commanders and officers quiting en masse to stop the war.

[4freethinking]

4. It maybe the only choice

If the president decides to use nuclear weapons or decides to attack Iran he's not going to say "Oh my god what have I done" and then suddenly resign or hold some national referendum on whether or not to use nuclear weapons on Iran.

[seabeyond]

6. upside, i read today officer oath to constitution whereas the grunts

oath are to their superiors. so it is in our favor the the officers are suppose to follow consitution and the soldier suppose to follow them. that gives me a little hope. it isnt the officer are there to follow president

[TheBaldyMan]

7. This the oath the US military takes ...

The Military Oath

The following oath is taken by all personnel inducted into the armed forces of the United States, as found in the US Code, Section 502.

I, _________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

They are under oath to obey orders according to regulations & UMCJ which has a clause specifically stating that they must not follow illegal orders. Therefore unless war has been declared by Congress or UN sanctioned the use of military force they should refuse any order to bomb Iran. Without either any act of aggression against Iran is against international law, amongst other actions (and by no means exhaustive) would include commando-style raids, bombing missions and missile attacks.

[wuushew]

9. What happens when the Constitution and the POTUS are in opposition?

All uses of pre-emptive force since 1945 are illegal according to U.N. Charter. Since the U.N. Charter was approved by the Senate and signed by the President it is the supreme law of the land.

Are the numerous cogs which form the mighty military juggernaut conditioned into such a state of obedience that no individual ever feels confident in questioning his or her actions in a military conflict?

Surely otherwise intelligent air force officers should be damn well aware what the consequences of carrying out unproved air strikes on Iran would be. Can a military hierarchal command structure, free will and morality even pretend to co-exist anymore?

[TheBaldyMan]

12. the President also swears to uphold the constitution when he takes office

so Bush is in dereliction of his own duty, for that alone he should be impeached.

[Just Me]

10. Swear to support and defend the Constitution of the United States,...

,...against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Priorities.

The BushCO/neocon regime has proven itself antithetical to the Constitution of the United States and violated numerous laws. The BushCO/neocon regime advance torture policies in violations of the UMCJ. The BushCO/neocon regime has already committed acts of aggression against another country without congressional approval.

What else can I say? :shrug:

[TheBaldyMan]

11. you hit the nail on the head n/t

[Tom Rinaldo]

13. So you want the military to decide what is and isn't Democratic?

What if they get it wrong one time? Once a tradition of civilian control over the military is broken, it's broken for a century. The military knows it's place, and it's place is apolitical.

We don't want the military, the people with all the tanks planes and big guns, to be the ones deciding who is and who isn't the domestic enemy, period. Talk about slippery slopes! The Right is certain that the Clintons are the Domestic enemy, remember? Not to mention what would happen someday if there ever were a Kucinich or Boxer Presidency. It would have to be something really really obvious, like a President canceling National Elections, for the military to clearly depose civilian leadership in order to uphold the Constitution.

This is a fight civilians have to wage.

[Just Me]

14. No. Never have imagined the necessity of that.

I still expect something shy a that, even under these insane circumstances.