The attitude towards homosexuality in the States

[baby_mouse]

... seems to be getting worse, not better. In fact, it appears from the perspective of this Scotsman that it's getting pretty disgusting, actually.

Should I be taking these reports from these revolting "Christians" that homosexuals are no longer welcome in the States with a pinch of salt? I was hoping to visit San Francisco one day and I'd not if all the hard work of the last century is just going to come undone in one decade.

:shrug:

[lectrobyte]

1. San Francisco is still OK. Avoid the South/Midwest/Texas.

[Puglover]

19. You're painting with a mighty broad brush

there. Minneapolis is very gay friendly. And I believe we are smack dab in the middle of the midwest.

[lectrobyte]

32. Sorry. The OP was asking from an international tourist point of

view, and specifically mentioned SF. Chicago would be a good destination too. I'd still suggest avoiding the places I mentioned, just based on my experiences travelling, except for Minneapolis.

[Puglover]

36. Now if you suggested avoiding Mpls cause of the mosquitoes

and the screwed up weather I'd totally understand.

:toast:

[noonwitch]

42. There are plenty of gay-friendly communities in the midwest

In Michigan alone there are:

Royal Oak
Ferndale
Ann Arbor
Traverse City
Detroit
Berkely



Most of those are in the Detroit area. Grand Rapids has a strong and politically active gay community in a very religiously conservative community. Political activity is definitely a survival thing there.

In Detroit, I'd say that Oakland County is more gay-friendly than Macomb or most of Wayne. Detroit has the non-discrimination policy on the books, and a thriving gay neighborhood just west of Wayne State. Gays have bought out these beautiful victorians and have restored them to beauty.

I live in Warren, in which gays would probably receive mixed messages if living there openly. My church is extremely open and affirming, but I'm not so sure all my neighbors are.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

2. I don't think it's getting worse.

I DO think that the homophobes have gotten much more vocal and active in backlash to the tide of acceptance, but I don't think the attitude is spreading.

[TechBear_Seattle]

3. I think you have it right

It's not that homophobia is spreading; quite the opposite. Acceptance is spreading, which is making the bigots much more vocal and vitriolic in their hate.

[BR_Parkway]

7. Yeah, I'd agree with that assessment. They're scared that we're

becoming more acceptable (or at least less frightening)

[Sammy Pepys]

4. Agreed

It's much more a regional and generational charateristic. I think there will still be places that are not exactly hospitable to that kind of lifestyle...but for everyone of those spots I think you'll have a dozen or more that are welcoming.

[soleft]

28. except it's not a lifestyle

[Sammy Pepys]

31. For lack of a better term....n/t

....

[baby_mouse]

6. I wondered if that might be the case. :-)

They're in for some nasty surprises, are they? Well, small price to pay for siding with the ancient forces of ignorance, small-mindedness and He Who Opposes. Lucky for them the price will never be a spell in a concentration camp, as it was for men like me only 50 odd years ago who paid for siding with something else.

[Nye Bevan]

5. Not a problem in New York City

in my experience.

I have relatives who live on a quiet residential street in Queens. Their next door neighbors on each side are gay female couples, and a gay male couple lives a couple of doors down. And everyone gets along just fine.

[baby_mouse]

8. Okay, NYC was a close second choice...!

You prescient thing, you! :D

[musical_soul]

9. Not getting worse.

Just the same struggle. Good will win in the end. It always does.

[AngryAmish]

10. Are the homosexuals coming from Mexico?

[cali]

11. You can always come visit us

in Vermont. We not only accept out gay and lesbian brothers and sisters, we value them.

[baby_mouse]

13. Awww

:D :D :D

What a sweet thing to say! I have a friend over here from Vermont, lovely chap...

To be *valued* for being gay... what an interesting thought...

[misternormal]

12. I don't care about anyone's sexual orientation...

... Nor do any of those I care to call my friends.

[Rowdyboy]

14. My partner and I live "openly gay" lives in small-town Mississippi....

Our straight neighbors love us and treat us as close friends. Pay no attention to the ignorant fundamentalists and their stupid stereotypes. They reflect no one's attitude but their own.

[Fleshdancer]

15. If you think it's bad now....

My fear is its going to get much worse if the religious right achieves their goal of overturning abortion laws. The way I see it, they have to split their fire spitting hate between homosexuality and a women's right to choose so if they get rid of one, then they'll have more time to focus their hate on the other.

:(

[baby_mouse]

25. I really, REALLY can't imagine what will happen if they do overturn it.

It's just...

It's not just that it's a stupid idea and twisted and against women's rights, I'm getting a whole superstitious feeling about overturning Roe vs Wade. It's really not common that countries succesfully to run their politics backwards that way. People will know this abroad. You can never turn things back to the "way they were". A freedom, once found, takes terrible amounts of force to put back in the bag.

I'm much more worried about Roe vs Wade than gay rights. Homosexuals can just lie about what they are if it gets really bad. Pregnant women are usually very obviously pregnant and are somewhat incapacitated.

[LisaLynne]

16. I truly believe that in general ...

it's just that the same old homophobes are getting louder. I think in general, people are becoming slowly (painfully slowly) enlightened and accepting. I don't really know that they realize it sometimes, but they are. It's just that the homophobes and such are so vocal and dangerous and at the moment have way too much political power. An amount of power out of proportion to their numbers.

And, yeah, I know people like to pick on the Midwest, but I'm in Indiana and there are well-known, openly gay bars that are quite popular and have been around for years, so ... I'm just saying. It's not all bad out here.

[SmokingJacket]

17. The bigots are a minority -- loud, but small.

I manage to live my life without ever running into them -- not for years now. Spending my time in a blue state helps...

Like you, I hear about the homophobic fundamentalists on the teevee...

[baby_mouse]

22. Well, maybe I was just being a bit too overcautious.

I mean, we spend a LOT of time on this site talking about the creepos so maybe the echoes got too loud.

[CottonBear]

18. Come on over to Athens, GA! You will find friendly and welcoming people!

I have lots of gay and lesbian friends here and in the surrounding areas. There is a great nightlife, music, arts and culture scene here with something for everyone! :) :hi:

edit: Atlanta is a very gay friendly city as well. Elton John liked it so much he bought a home there. So, the South must not be so bad! ;)

[Lisa0825]

20. I heard it was getting better...

I read somewhere recently that before all of the highly publicized events around the efforts to make gay marriage legal, polls showed 65% of Americans were against gay marriage. Then recently, the polls were done again, and it had dropped to 51%. That's a pretty significant decrease, if those numbers are accurate.

[baby_mouse]

24. Are people in the States aware of British domestic partnerships?

I bet they'd be less worried if they were. There's certainly no sign of civilisation collapsing over *here*, on that front at least...

[Lisa0825]

30. I don't know if it would matter.

After all, dems fer'ners, and this here's the US of A!

I heard/gave the same argument years ago on gays in the military - that other countries had more open policies and it didn't lead to the collapse of their military. But too many Americans are stubborn, and don't care much what other countries think.

[baby_mouse]

35. Well, that's best left to iself, methinks.

Long experience of comparing national neuroses with my buddies over the pond has left me shrugging and saying: "suit yourself" once too often.

(Me: "you know, we HAVE all been countries outside the US for SOME TIME. We DO know what living a country is LIKE. It's much the same from one place to the next, law and how it affects people. Different strokes for different folks and all that, but sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Woontcha say?"

Them: "*%*£$%^£$%^£***%$**£)()_%+_)+)$America'sbest%$^)£$(%)^£$%etc".

Me: silence.)

[Reader Rabbit]

21. Just the opposite I suspect (and hope!)

As several here have pointed out, personal experience indicates that many people are becoming more accepting. This makes the bigoted nutter bars crazy, and they spout their bile louder and more frequently. And our news media, which thrives on conflict, gives these lunatics as much face time as possible.

[baby_mouse]

26. So what do ordinary, sane, otherwise disinterested straight people

... make of the fundies? Why aren't they as horrified as we are?

Maybe they're onto something?

[Reader Rabbit]

38. Possibly the apathy that limits their reaction to all the outrages

There are tons of things that people should be outraged about, but are not. My theory is that most of them are too distracted by the hamster wheel of consumption to pay any heed to the atrocities going on around them. They're too busy watching American Idol or saving for the latest "must have" widget being advertised on cable. They consider themselves open-minded, but since it's not "their problem," they can't be bothered to get involved, make a stand, or what have you.

I'd say that's the biggest problem in America today: there's no sense of community or feeling of responsibility to or for people outside one's immediate sphere of interaction. Our concern with possessions insulates us, so we pay more attention to them than to our neighbors, fellow citizens, fellow human beings, etc.

Damn. Now I'm depressed.

:-(

[baby_mouse]

39. Chin up!

WE care.

Also, I perceive an unswing in political interest...

[Tesha]

23. Blue states: "Who cares?" Jesusland: "Why those f'ing f***ots..."

Attitudes: Blue states: "Who cares?" Jesusland: "Why those
f'ing f***ots, they're a threat to my marriage, ain't that
right honey? (speaking to his lover rather than his wife)"

It's just another indicator of the divide between
Jesusland and the parts of the country based on
rational thought.

Seriously, though, there are, as yet, no worries about
homosexuality in San Francisco. If homosexuality were a
religion, SF would still be its Vatican. ;-)

Tesha

[baby_mouse]

27. Quite so, darling, quite so! xxx

I've often wondered how should I dress for my pilgrammage? ;-)

[Binka]

29. A Sailor Suits Are Always Fabulous " I'm The Only Gay In The Village"

ala Daffyd! We are still planning our trip to UK in May. Hope to meet up with you ...but wait...YOU ARE A GAY? Goody! Let's go SHOPPING!:loveya:

[baby_mouse]

33. That would be MARVELLOUS! Come to Edinburgh, darling.

YOU MUST. All the same shopping you can do in London but without the noise, smell and strange accents. ;-)

[DanCa]

34. They sides are just getting more vocal

And the right wing homophobes have more money too make their voice heard. At least that's what I hope it is.

[Tesha]

37. Hate is becoming a lot more acceptable.

Hate is becoming a lot more acceptable; the haters
are constantly being given permission by the neocons
and the media, especially Reich Wing Talk Radio.

And the haters are starting to really act out.

Tesha

[Rocknrule]

40. I saw a post on another board reading "America should be gay-free"

and it was written by a 14-year old

The Hitler Youth is alive and well

[Tesha]

41. It's a shame you can't "bookmark" that kid...

> I saw a post on another board reading "America should be gay-free"
> and it was written by a 14-year old

It's a shame you can't "bookmark" that kid so you can see
how they turn out in 10 or 30 years.

He probably wishes America could be "gay free" so that he
could get rid of those nagging, confusing feelings he has.

Tesha