Who do you think votes? Illegal immigrants or pissed off Americans?

[ruggerson]

I'm just sayin'.

[Solon]

1. There's a distinct difference between...

passing reasonable laws that would actually be effective to reduce illegal immigration, and passing off sound bites as laws that don't do anything but piss off the Latino vote, and let me remind you that the Republicans don't know shit about immigration and their ideas will simply NOT WORK!!!! Not to mention that Latinos are the LARGEST minority in this country, and carry a HUGE amount of weight in many states and nationally.

[mike_c]

2. yeah but this pissed off american votes AGAINST neanderthals...

...who scapegoat immigrants, gays, or minorities.

[Redstone]

12. As does this one.

Redstone

[sam sarrha]

15. you obviously dont compete with them for employment..so you are full of it

[mike_c]

36. I not only don't "compete" with immigrants, minorities, and women...

...but search committees in my department give them some degree of preference. We call it "improving diversity." Recently we've hired a colleague from India, one from Romania, and have just offered a position to a colleague from China. We've interviewed numerous others including Mexican nationals and an Argentinian (the Romanian gentleman topped the Argentinian for that position).

What happened to civility in conversation around here? I'm "full of it?"

on edit-- just to complete the point, I certainly DO compete with immigrants for employment. The search committee that offered me my job undoubtedly reviewed applications from numerous immigrants, just as every search committee I've served on since has done.

[sam sarrha]

37. as i said, you dont live in an area where you dont get a job if you cant

speak spanish.. do you live in an area of double digit unemployment, and walk from business to business canvasing for a job for 2 months with no luck and default on your payments...

this is the largest migration of people in the history of the earth.. i am talking about Mexico exporting their poverty... to make the rich richer..

speaking a truth you are not subjected to is not uncivil.. you are in in denial out of ignorance perhaps..

there is a point of diminishing returns in flooding the underclasses with people that come here for work and take payment under the table ..they are being abused and i am being displaced, this is MY HOME and i cant get a job with thousands of non-DOCUMENTED migrants competing for nonexistent jobs

you insist on only validating your view and using inappropriate examples to invalidate me.. i am talking about illegal migrants,

http://www.globalexchange.org/countries/americas/mexico/slope/section3.html

a couple of years ago mexico was declared by the UN as 'Morally Bankrupt and Democratically Irretrievable.. the problem is the corrupt government encouraging its poor to come here and send money back.. which is the largest industry in their country..

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/2/26/164611.shtml

the problem isnt the suffering people it is the goverment..ours and theirs.. NAFTA has Stolen 26 MILLION jobs form the USA and enslaved 10's of thousands of mexicans

get past the emotional triggers and LOOK AT THE PROBLEM

[sam sarrha]

41. i apologize, i meant full of yourself, i am aware of the "Great Experiment"

this is not about diversity, this is about a planed program where a foreign government perpetrates and invasion for profit.. to export its poverty and have them send us dollars back to Mexico to raise their standard of living.

it is nice to think oneself enlightened, but when one bases one belief on faith, and refuses to listen to others real life experiences.. that constitutes bigotry.

in El Paso i was driven out of numerous jobs by mexican gangs, i was threatened , my car was damaged, i was denied employment i was qualified to do because i didn't speak spanish.. only because all the other employees didn't speak english.. and they probably had trouble with the other employees running off the locals so they made the Code word, must speak spanish..

we had constant drive by shootings from mexican gangs because some kid tagged the wrong mark on the mail box.. and if you remove that, they will shoot at you..

i assume from what you said you live in a Golden Ghetto, i do not, i live in poverty because we have had 3 good paying jobs sent to mexico, that would be only 3 in 5 years of the 26,000,000 lost to NAFTA.

i have said enough, you have no intension of listening, i am wasting my time

[TexMexDem]

3. I'm just askin'.

Are you saying that the 500,000 that protested in LA were all illegal immigrants AND/or pissed off Americans? (who vote, btw)

[mike_c]

4. welcome to DU, TexMexDem!

:toast:

[TexMexDem]

7. Thanks for the welcome....

I've been lurking for a long time now. (about 3 years) Good to finally pop my DU cherry.....

[SammyWinstonJack]

6. Both? nt

[MADem]

29. Well, the LA Mayor gave a helluva speech at that gathering

Ya gotta figure he had a sense of the crowd! And I don't think he was just out there being nice to the visitors from the south....

[IsItJustMe]

5. I remember a poll conducted last election that the majority of legal

Latino immigrants supported border security. Has that changed?

[ugarte]

8. Border security is one thing

But Republican legislation making it a felony to be caught in this country without papers is one step on the road to a police state.

[IsItJustMe]

9. Hell, I already thought we where.

[radio4progressives]

10. bingo!

:thumbsup: repeat and rinse, how many times must the obvious be stated?

[radio4progressives]

11. i remember that be a repeated meme on cm.. i didn't buy it..

there's no way that the latino/chicano community in my area believes that load of shit.

[TexMexDem]

13. Border security is not the real issue.

EVERYONE believes in border security. NoSense-OrBrainer has introduced a bill that is extreme. Think of what would happen if this bill passes.

Over 30 million illegal immigrants in this country and not all of them are hispanic (BTW, hispanic is a broad term that includes Mexicans, Guatamalans, Hondurans, etc). Can you imagine having to arrest, convict and house 30 million "felons". (Your tax money here) Also imagine arresting, convicting, and housing every religious group (Catholic Church), charity or any other group who help out illegal immigrants? (Don't forget who pays for this)

Can you imagine paying to extradite 30 million illegal immigrants to another country. (Your tax money here)

Can you imagine how much to build a wall between the US and Mexico and maintaining/manning this wall? (Your tax money here) (BTW, the US/Canadian border is the largest UNGUARDED border in the world!)

Can you imagine the cost of housing, food, general services after we deport all the illegal immigrants?

Illegal Immigrants do not necessarily mean Terrorist.

Now as far as border security, no one has no problem securing our borders (ie Dubai Port Deal). We must work with our neighbors in order to secure our borders. Illegal immigrants do have family back in their countries of origin. I would think that they have just as much at stake in securing our borders to protect their sons, husbands, wives, cousins, etc who happen to live in the US.

One more thing. Can you imagine how much how much revenue the goverment can collect from 30 million immigrants filling legal income tax statements? Just a thought. Now back to work.....

[MADem]

16. Yep, don't be renting that back room to that Irish guy in Somerville!!

He could well be an illegal!! Or giving a lift to that kid with a classic NY accent from Brooklyn--he might have creeped in here as an infant in his mother's arms, from JAMAICA! And per GOP logic, YOU WILL BE PUNISHED!

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

24. In regard to that Irish guy in Somerville,

does anyone realize that if Sensenbrenner/Hastert's bill is passed by Congress that if you invited, even unknowingly, any "illegal" to share your family's Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner, you would be under this law, a felon???

Or if your next-door neighbor was hurt and in need of a hospital, if you took them there for medical care, you would be a felon???

Bottom line, the vast majority of "illegals" love this country as much as we born, raised and naturalized Americans do. They're human beings, not chattel.

One thing I'd love to ask Congressmen Sensenbrenner and Hastert is this? How many "illegal aliens" have died in Iraq and Afghanistan so that "we" don't have to fight the "terrorists" over here?

I'm sure at this point in time, the Army and the Marine Corps aren't checking to see if their "recruits" are legal residents or not...

[MADem]

27. Yep--there are a shitload of Ethiopians who came here during the

troubles, and never left. And they are illegal as hell, too, but fit in rather well and stay under the radar. Will Americans start becoming block wardens, and glare suspiciously at anyone speaking accented English? Hell, Bostonians sound like furriners down in Texas!

What happens to the kids who came here as infants, have grown up here, and are cut off from their roots and their homeland culture? They had no choice in the matter, and they will get the same harsh treatment.

[Marie26]

35. Best not to make eye contact

w/a suspected immigrant. You can't be too careful.

[RagingInMiami]

23. Welcome to DU

:toast:

[Marie26]

34. Don't forget the Legal Aid attorneys!

They're going to jail too. Perhaps they should simply wall off an emptier state and use it as a holding area for the 40+ million people who will become felons under this law? I suggest Utah. Though, wait, if I'm going to jail, I want it to be in Hawaii. Thank you for actually explaining the practical consequences of this bill.

[Marie26]

14. Who votes? The 500,000 pissed off Los Angelinos who protested

or all those apathetic, uninformed people who can't bother to turn off the TV? Just saying...

[katsy]

17. Maybe we should be asking ourselves...

why aren't our Democratic representatives cutting to the chase and bringing ALL working people to the table by calling for:

1. Living wages for everyone which levels the playing field for all working people.

2. Closing loopholes that encourage outsourcing.

3. Cutting hi-tech worker visas (insourcing) & offering tax incentives for hiring/training hi-tech workers already in the U.S.

4. Secure the borders and enforce the immigration laws on the books already.

5. Universal healthcare for everyone.

We don't need to engage in a battle between working people. Our battles should be fought against corporatism.

[ruggerson]

18. Corporations love illegal immigration

they're happy as clams with the status quo

[katsy]

19. It would be nice...

to join together as working people and vote the corporate bastards out.

[RagingInMiami]

20. Millions of Mexican-Americans

Who resent the crackdown on their people.

[Rainscents]

22. There is more of them than, there's of us, if not, it's close.

[Peter Frank]

21. No -- You're asking a BS question & saying nothing...

What do you really want?

[Lone_Star_Dem]

25. Pissed off American family members of illegal immigrants?

We do have many of them, you know... I'm just sayin'

[sandnsea]

26. Put me on the other side of the fence

That's what me and my family say. Our ancestors have been here since the 1700's. Are we immigrants or Americans? Whichever, we aren't going to be fenced in. Neither are most thinking Americans who see right through this pitting worker against worker bullshit.

[sofa king]

28. Obviously, neither.

[Peter Frank]

30. ruggerson...

What do you think?

[cap]

31. many of the illegals have family here who are American citizens

as well as those who marry American citizens....

[OKthatsIT]

32. The New Prison and Surveillance Industrial Complexes

Reading about Chertoff's announcement to 'round up' 39,000 chinese illegal immigrants, even though China told the US they wouldnt permit them back into China, I realized the dangerous direction this was going.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4811458.stm

We have been watching Federal Laws, FEMA camps and the build up, and privatization, of Federal Prison complexes. The announcement to 'round up' these chinese people, house them each at $95 a day, equals out to be $4 Million a day. No doubt, when Americans complain about the budget and the new immigration laws, they will try to rationalize putting these people to work, to pay for their own enslavement...

The whole thing just stinks. We need to all sit down and decide what is the best approach. I havent heard any Democrats step up to the plate with a platform idea....or what could be done to help Mexico's economy. NAFTA doesn't work because it's not paying the workers enough to help with the Mexican tax base. It's still robber-baron corporations, wherever they go.

[hunter]

33. California should just quit the United States.

The rest of you are gonna be sorry.

You'll be a hungry white guy from Ohio looking for a job in the Golden State, and the man's gonna tell you, "Sorry, move along, hobo."

I'm just sayin'

[LWolf]

38. Pissed off legal immigrants,

pissed off 1st, 2nd, and 3rd generations born here to immigrants,

and pissed off progressives who know a smoke and mirrors strategy when they are confronted with it.


Along with nationalists, racists, and cultural bigots, of course.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

39. I'm a pissed off American who doesn't vote for racists.

Like the one's who are trying to portray poor people from Latin America as a threat.

[Balbus]

40. In Arizona both do.

[DanCa]

42. I've been wondering about this.

We need to start working on a humane immigration policy and not just coasting between the two extremes. Of course the way that the shrub is outsourcing jobs, I wonder if they'll be any jobs left for anyone in America.