How is it farmers are allowed to get around minimum wage laws?

[Toots]

They pay by the amount of work done and not by the hour. Fifty cents per basket for berries picked or tomatoes plucked. If they really bust their butts they can pick six to eight baskets per hour. Three to four dollars per hour. Minimum wage is $5.15 per hour. This is a loophole that should be addressed. That is why Americans won't do those jobs. They are not fair labor practices.

[northzax]

1. minimum wage laws only apply

to people who work an hourly wage. I've had jobs where I get paid by the day, or the job, and if I work a 15 hour day to finish, I get paid the same as if I work 8 hours. Agribusiness pays low wages because they can. If the cheap labor vanished, they'd pay more, and charge everyone else more.

[warrens]

11. There was a fundie-from-hell on NPR last week

She was saying that she wanted to crack down on illegal aliens, except then she wouldn't be able to find anyone to pick her strawberries and she'd go bankrupt. So trying when your two core values come into conflict. Bigotry? Greed? Greed? Bigotry? How's a girl to choose?

(It was a report about fundie bushsuckers in Plant City, Fla. on weekend Morning Edition, I think.)

[Cobalt Violet]

2. I think they are exempt from minimum wage.

There are certain exemptions.

[htuttle]

6. There's usually a lower minimum wage for agricultural work

Same with waiters and waitresses.

In other cases, they get around it by calling the workers 'independent contractors'.

[havocmom]

7. And some businesses are exempt due to small size

I believe places with less than a certain number of employees are exempt, as are ag workers and wait staff in restaurants.

[mandyky]

14. Just what I was thinking

Or try being a store manager for a franchise - like Pizza Hut, 7-11 or the like - sure you get a decent pay per week or month, but you also get to work 60+ hours a week.

[Fridays Child]

3. Maybe it's a loophole for family-owned and operated businesses...

...which, of course, almost none of them are, anymore. I don't think that restaurants don't have to pay minimum wage, either. I don't know about hotels and motels. Do they have to pay minimum wage to their maids?

[havocmom]

8. Every farm and ranch around here is family owned and operated

Just because they incorporate for legal reasons doesn't make them a big corporate farm. Most can't afford to hire more than one or two seasonal employees, and that is only if they don't have enough kids or nephews to help during calving/lambing/harvest times or if those kids are too young to work!

IF they hire outside help for the busy times, it is generally a contract sort of thing. Housing and meals HAVE to be provided because they are long distances from anyplace where there is housing available. There are no places to go to buy a prepared meal. What there is: the ranch/farm and more of the same for a few hours drive in any direction.

Might do some people around here some good to actually spend some times with families who are producing some of the food we all enjoy. There are sure a lot of misconceptions around here about farmers... The family farm is not just a relic of the past. It is, however, a threatened existence in the present. We would do well to consider keeping the tradition viable. The family farmer is usually a good steward of the land where the huge mega farms run by corporate bosses who don't actually touch the earth tend to be horrible to the land.

And if you think it's a pain having huge international cartels ruling your gas tank, consider that they are soon gonna rule your belly.

Support the family farm. Learn a bit about how things really work.

[Fridays Child]

15. I was comparing giant agribusinesses to family farms.

Nowhere did I state that incorporation turns a family farm into "a big corporate farm." Nor did I express any other "misconceptions...about farmers." And, in your rush to scold, you missed my point entirely, which is that exemptions and other benefits afforded by the law to help family farmers are undoubtedly abused by the big agribusiness producers. Beyond that point, I also stand by my observation that there are vastly fewer family farms, today, than there were even fifty short years ago.

I'm not sure why the tone of your response to me is so pissy but it's unwarranted and offensive.

[havocmom]

18. "which, of course, almost none of them are, anymore. "

You did not specify large mega farms, you said the above. I corrected that misconception because it is one too many people have.

My response was not pissy, it was an attempt to accurately explain why your comment: "which, of course, almost none of them are, anymore." is a bit of a misconception, and also a dangerous thing to go about believing.

If you took it as anything else, it was in your interruption, which is easy to get wrong as you could not get information from my facial expression nor voice inflection due to the medium we are using. My intent was to help others understand the reality that there ARE lots of family farms and ranches yet in America. Perhaps it is the notion of being corrected that most offended you? That, I cannot control.

There are fewer 'family farms', on that we agree. But there are still a very large number of family farms and they operate on shoestrings. Fact. We enjoy a relatively low cost for our food due to the constraints on how farmers can sell their product. Prices are controlled and not based on actual cost of production. Fact.

The OP was about wages and I posted facts about family farms and labor. The mega corporate farms (in the US, which fewer are) ARE subject to wage laws,(though probably not the same conditions as workers in other businesses) by the fact that they hire enough people to fall under regulation. Lots of people who used to own family farms in some areas are now employees of such farm. Sad Fact.

Really sad is the fact that more of those huge corporate farms now operate in other nations and the workers are not subject to our protections and laws at all. Those corporations are responsible for much destruction of the rain forests, but that is fodder for other discussions.

Did you know one of the first things done in US law after bush was sworn in and the new Congress conviened in 2001, was the repeal of the law requiring foods to be labeled with country of origin? At that time about 40% of the food sold in the US was from other countries. Now, well, we don't know because they won't tell us and we cannot make informed purchases at the grocery store. The huge corporate farms are leaving the US too, just like all other employement and production.

Were it in my power, I would establish a sort of student exchange program for city kids and farm kids ;) I think America would be better served if these two diverse cultural groups knew a bit more about each other's reality. A bit of understanding and empathy with both groups of how others live and the problems they deal with could only help our national dialog.

Peace, and hopefully, better clarity.

hm

[Fridays Child]

23. From the Farm Aid web site...

In the 1930s, there were close to seven million farms in the United States. Today, just over two million farms remain. Of the remaining farms, roughly 565,000 are family operations, farming just over 415 million acres or 44 percent of total farmland. An astonishing 330 farm operators leave their land every week.

So, from seven million down to two million and, of that two million, only about 25% are run by families. Relatively speaking, that constitutes "almost none."

I hope the notion of being corrected doesn't offend you.

[havocmom]

24. 44% of tthe farmland ... that correction doesn't offend me at all

That's still a big chunk of the farms, certainly more than just a token few.:evilgrin:

Economic fact: It takes a family much more acerage to actually make a living than it used to. 44% of the farm land huh, actually that is more than I would have guessed. Thanks for that!

The really bad part is the average age and the median age of farmers in America. They are past prime now. Younger people going into it or even maintaining the family farm is a disheartening small group.

[loudestchick]

19. There is a small dairy near here that has "family day at the farm".

I took my kids to meet the cows, see the equipment, etc. It was terrific. The milk comes in glass bottles, you return them to get your deposit back. The milk actually tastes like milk....and the butter? WOW! There is also a family owned farm that sells eggs in our local market...they include a little note on the "doings" at the farm in the carton with their wonderful brown eggs.

[havocmom]

20. Bet your kids had a grand time! And they learned a lot?

;)

More and more farm families realize that to survive, they have to find or create niche markets and utilizt 'added value' to their products. It means selling directly to consumers. It can be a win-win situation.

Find a Farmers' Market and you will find food that is fresher, better and you will build relationships which help everybody.

Kids should understand where food comes from. It empowers them! :thumbsup:

[loudestchick]

21. They had a blast! There are sooo many teachable moments

that parents miss...I don't intend to miss many. Even the varied colors of the eggs in the carton, we used it to talk about skin color with my 4yr old...the beauty in variety.:hi:

[havocmom]

22. Great way to teach!

Parents like you give me hope for our collective future.

Yep, teachable moments abound and we are richer oursleves for facing them

:hi: and thanks... just thanks :hug:

[Fridays Child]

17. Meant to say...

I don't think that restaurants don't have to pay minimum wage, either.

[Squatch]

4. You sure? Here's NY's Law on the matter:

Link

"The piece rate must yield a wage for the payroll period at least equivalent to the basic minimum wage rate..."

[Blue Diadem]

16. I think it varies by state.

I know Ohio just recently raised our minimum wage to federal level. There were several job descriptions that were exempted previously and IIRC agriculture was one of them.

[justabob]

5. Possibly by calling it "contract labor"

and the contract says they get $X for picking field A, no matter how long it takes the worker to do it.

[mainegreen]

9. Most farmers pay low because they have to sell low.

Farmer get ripped off by the middle men. If people want to raise wages from the farm, join a farm co-op. The farmer makes more, the people who work for the farmer make more, you get better food, and the middle man gets squat.

[havocmom]

10. Farmers have to buy what they need at retail but sell product wholesale

and the price is decided by outside parties and not based on what it acually takes to produce.

Try that as a business model sometime. ;)

[FloridaPat]

12. There are some exemptions. Waitresses & waiters are exempt.

[DrGonzoLives]

13. They would pay fair labor wages if they got fair prices for their goods

As it is, a lot of the smaller farmers are in debt to their eyeballs and will be the last in their family to own the farm at all.