Mark Warner for President - 2008?

[im10ashus]

I sure hope not. I am having an "argument" with a friend who believes he is our best candidate for 2008. I will not support another DLC candidate. Period. Am I taking the wrong stance on this? Help me out here. :-)

[IsItJustMe]

1. Whats the phrase: Twidle dee, twidle dum

[im10ashus]

2. I believe it's "tweedle dee/tweedle dum"

But what's your point? :shrug:

[IsItJustMe]

19. My point being, I would rather have a candidate that I could get my heart

into. Mark, I don't think, is very progressive.

[MADem]

3. Warner can add to the debate, but I wonder if he can go the distance

He doesn't photograph well. And he isn't sufficiently familiar. On the plus side, he comes from a state that is not NORTHEAST, and that appeals to idiots who think that the south is entitled to own all candidates, because of the civil war, or something. He is a successful bidnizman, and that appeals to crossover GOP types.

I hope he gets in there, with a bunch of others, just to mix it up. He could bring some serious cash and energy to a ticket in the #2 slot. And who know, he might have more juice than we give him credit for--who thought Clinton would go the distance in 92????

[Clark2008]

6. Oh - stop the fucking Southern bashing.

It's not about being "Southern," it's about being perceived as the "average Joe (and NOT Lieberman)."

It has nothing to do with damned Civil War or the other biased opinions you listed. It has to do with sounding and acting like you're someone who didn't grow up with a silver spoon in your mouth (even if you did). It's PERCEPTION.

Geesch.

P.S. It would work for someone from the mid-West, too, and they didn't fight in the fucking Civil War.

[MADem]

11. I'm not bashing, I just think that there is far too much fear about

choosing a candidate that isn't southern. We always have to sweat a "southern strategy" and it hasn't helped much no matter how we play it, yet it enters the debate every election cycle. And to say it does NOT enter the debate is disingenuous. The only reason Lieberman got on the ticket is because Tennessee Gore was a balancer, and he was expected to be helpful in FL.

Look, the last three elected Democrats had drawls. I think it's time for a change. I'll take a Westerner, a Hawaiian, a Pacific Northwesterner, a midwesterner, I really do not give a shit--I just want a good candidate...So shoot me!

[im10ashus]

13. I agree.

Hell, I will take anyone besides another DLCer.

And Hillary should just stay the heck away. She’s a better candidate to fire up the conservative base than a gay High School Biology teacher who wants to lecture on Darwin’s Theory of Evolution by inviting his Paleontologist male Life Partner into the classroom and cutting out the Pledge of Allegiance to make room for more discussion of why the Earth was not created in 6 days.

[MyNameGoesHere]

24. Hell, I will take anyone besides another DLCer

Alright! So anyone includes the repug that will get elected because you have to have a 100% progressive candidate?

[Clark2008]

29. OK - I'll accept that.

I just get very tired of the Southern bashing on this board.

My favorite candidate is sorta Southern and sorta mid-Western, but very international. It matters not to me, either, and I'm a Southerner, but I know how my bretheren here listen and look and react to things. And, it's more about being "a working class" guy than being from the South: the Southern and mid-Western accents just make that leap more easy for most folks. I mean, we know Bush is hyper-rich, but people - well some people - still think he's a "good ole boy" because of his put-on accent.

[depakid]

20. It sure as hell DOES have to do with history

My entire family is from the South- I've spent a lot of time there, and the abstract antipathy toward Northerners and West Coasters is VERY real-

I see it in all walks of life- from the most ignorant crackers to supposedly well educated engineers- and it clouds many of their judgments..

Fact is, that as a region, the South claims an exclusive cultural identity (heritage?)- and that identity tends to be parochial- sometimes defiantly so.

[midnight armadillo]

46. Oh, it's ALL about the Civil War

You're implying that any northeastern candidate will sound like they've got a stick up their ass and a silver spoon in their mouth. Uh, it depends on the candidate, don't you think?

If this isn't a sign of a massive Southern inferiority complex, I don't know what is. Maybe in another 141 years the South will get over having its ass kicked over slavery.

[Clark2008]

4. His friends compare him to Joe Lieberman...

http://www.politicalcortex.com/story/2006/3/18/17548/3412

Need I say more?

[im10ashus]

5. That's enough to make my decision for me.

Republican plants in the Democratic party. That's what they are to me.

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

7. No

you're not. I agree with you. While he made a decent governor here in good old RED Virginia (especially after Gillmore and Allen), I don't think he's ready to make the leap to the bigs. There are others here also from VA who may agree or disagree - I'd be interested to hear their views.

I'd rather see him take on one of our knucklehead senators like Ex-Governor Potato Head (Allen)

[Nye Bevan]

8. He is certainly a strong contender

A moderate, successful Southern governor with an excellent track record of winning elections-- ring any bells?

I am keeping an open mind at this point. The primaries are a long way off-- it will be interesting to see how things shake out.

[im10ashus]

10. It rings a lot of bells.

Unfortunately, all of them are warning bells. Clinton lost a lot my confidence when he signed DOMA, but I still stood by him. I vowed never to vote for another DLC candidate and I will stick by that in 2008. Why do we need a moderate instead of a progressive? I know we want to win back the White House, but at what cost? :shrug:

[Nye Bevan]

12. Yeah, DOMA was a cynical piece of crap

but I would take Bill Clinton over chimpy (or any republican) in a heartbeat.

My main priority is for the Dem to win. It would be nice if he agreed with me on every single issue but I am a realist.

[im10ashus]

15. Yeah, I guess we have to take what they give us.

And by "they" I mean the people who vote. Assuming their votes are correctly accounted for.

[enfield collector]

9. he's pro-gun as well so he'll be able to shut down the NRA

smear campaign in a way the kerry couldn't and hillary won't.

[wisteria]

14. I sure hope not too, but this is more because he is not experienced

enough in foreign affairs and defense issues and we will need someone sharp and on top of the Iraq situation in order to get us out of this mess. I am still going with Kerry. Side by side,Warner or Kerry I go with Kerry,he absolutely knows what is going on and has the skills necessary to resolve this mess.

[Catchawave]

16. Sure, I'd vote for his ticket. Great guy and gov. n/t

[im10ashus]

17. Based on the fact he is a "nice guy?"

Help me out here. When I look at where he stands on the issues, he is like Lieberman, republican-lite. DLC has hijacked our party, IMHO, and we need to take it back.

[Catchawave]

28. With who ?

I like all the Demawannabes for '08, have a few favs for my top three, all "nice guys" for starters. I'd vote for any ticket that isn't republican :D

Now, please, stop feeding the freeper trolls with RW talking points, doom and gloom for ANY of our Dems. Thanks :hi:

[im10ashus]

31. I don't think I am feeding freeper trolls.

I think it is important that we stand up for our progressive base rather than acquiesce to the center. :-)

[Catchawave]

33. I think any crushing personal blows to Dems

is feeding the "freeper trolls". I, personally, hate to see DUers act like freeper-feeders.

OhMiGawd, and I see that all the time from wonderful DUers, who I just want to bitchslap for the backslapping comments they make against, uhm, Democrats.

Can we just unite for 2006 ? Please :banghead:

[FSogol]

18. Yes, wrong stance. Vote for any Democratic Party Candidate.

Even if it was Lieberman, wouldn't he be a better choice than the Repub?

Plus, why not wait and see what Warner has to say? Also, common sense is more important for foreign policy than experience. Doesn't Clinton's foreign policy dealing exceed the foreign policies by the much more experienced, Rumsfeld, Powell, Wolfiwitz, etc?

[Pithy Cherub]

21. As bush baldly stated yesterday he is staking his presidency

on Iraq and the next president has to make the decision. 2008 will be about Iraq and its horrid consequences both domestically and internationally. The only foreign policy credential Mark Warner can legitimately claim is a passport. As a DLC drone and one term technocrat, he doesn't even want to discuss Iraq. Warner as a future Secretary Of Commerce, perhaps, president, no way.

[FrenchieCat]

22. I think Warner's greatest problem will be the fact that he's

Politically "calculated"...meaning he doesn't take stances in order to stay safe.

Some consider that Brilliant, because they say that it means that the media/GOP won't have any rope to hang him with.

I call it being a "fence sitter" or playing the "Ropey Dope".....a mistaken notion that one can be all things to all people by not revealing oneself.

IMO, it shows a lack of leadership and a certain political naivety, because it means that Warner doesn't even realize that in order to win primaries, he has to take a stand on the hot button issues of the day....say, like Iraq, and reveals what he really think.....regardless of the political consequences. That's what folks who are deserving of being a leader would or should do.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2279497

[Virginia Dare]

23. I'll take any "true" Democrat that can get elected.

yep, I am that desperate. He was a very good Governor by the way, and did a great job bringing an extremely partisan right-wing hackery of a legislature in line.

:D

[im10ashus]

25. Thanks for your thoughts.

I will seriously consider him but I still would like to see a progressive and not a moderate. What has playing small done for our party? Pandering to the center and right only makes us republican right and Warner's record - from what I am able to gather online - puts him on par with Lieberman. We need a progressive. Thanks for your thoughts.

:-)

[Virginia Dare]

27. I don't disagree...

in fact, in a perfect world I would have loved to have seen Kucinich as the nominee last time--if only we lived in a perfect world.



:hi:

[im10ashus]

30. What can WE do to change the course?

There has to be a better way.

:hi:

[Virginia Dare]

40. If I knew that, I'd be raking in the big bucks..

in the political world, but I'm not unfortunately.

But seriously, I think there will have to be a wholesale social change in this country. We need a real socialist/populist movement. It took a depression for it to happen last time. I'm optimistic that will happen in my lifetime, unfortunately we'll have to go through some bad times first though.

I think at this point we need to think about baby steps, get the Dems back in power first, do some real damage to the Republican Party. Who is electable, not necessarily who is our dream candidate?



;-)

[phylny]

26. When I was in Virginia, he was governor. I like him.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

32. Why would we want another DLC loser?

[Roland99]

34. One word: Bilderberg

[im10ashus]

35. No way!!!

Really? Warner?

[Roland99]

37. Uh, yeah. He's been to two Bilderberg conferences.

He's being groomed.

[im10ashus]

43. The same Bilderberg that Perle and Rumsfeld attend?

That is pretty damn frightening.

[Roland99]

44. The very same.

[im10ashus]

45. Thank you dear Roland99 for enlightening me.

That just about makes my decision final. :hi:

[Roland99]

47. You're welcome. BTW, here's some proof just so you're sure.

http://www.bilderberg.org/2005.htm

Bilderberg hunkered down here May 5-8 to decide how the world should deal with European-American relations, the Middle East powder keg, the Iraq war, the global economy and potential war in Iran. The first appearance of Virginia Gov. Mark Warner (D) indicates Bilderberg considers him a presidential contender.

The absence of former Sen. John Edwards (N.C.), John Kerry’s presidential running mate in 2004, indi-cates the Sun has set on his political career. Last year was Edwards’s first appearance and, like most of the “fringe” invitees, he has been cast aside like an old shoe.

further down:

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=86537&ran=190681

By BOB LEWIS, Associated Press - The Virginian Pilot - 17 May 2005

RICHMOND -- Gov. Mark R. Warner quietly slipped away earlier this month to Germany for a secretive weekend conclave of global economic and foreign policy figures.

Warner confirmed Monday that he took part in the annual Bilderberg Meeting the weekend of May 6-8 at a resort hotel near Munich. Other U.S. participants included Henry Kissinger, Republican National Committee Chairman Ken Mehlman, Ford Motor Co. chairman and CEO Bill Ford and Richard Holbrooke, former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations.

[LWolf]

36. Whatever stance you are led to, after active investigation

and thoughtful reflection, is good.

Mark Warner for president? :shrug:

My vote will be going another direction, if it counts for anything.

[DTinAZ]

38. Here's what Molly Ivins said about Warner...

...in her recent "Enough of the DC Dems" column:

"This is not a time for a candidate who will offend no one; it is time for a candidate who takes clear stands and kicks ass.

Who are these idiots talking about Warner of Virginia? Being anodyne is not sufficient qualification for being President. And if there’s nobody in Washington and we can’t find a Democratic governor, let’s run Bill Moyers, or Oprah, or some university president with ethics and charisma."

http://www.progressive.org/mag_ivins0306

DT

[skipos]

39. I am impressed with what he has done for Virginia.

I would be pretty happy if he was on the ticket, especially with someone who has more foreign/ military experience, like Clark.

[mmonk]

41. I'm with you.

No reason to vote for people I disagree with on the most basic issues.

[jackpan1260]

42. Personally, I'd spend less time in the circular firing squad and

more time focusing on defeating republicans.

I supported DLC candidates like Clinton, Gore, Kerry and Edwards in the past, and if candidates like that are nominated again, I will support them again.

[WI_DEM]

48. Warner would be another Clinton--whatever your perspective of that

on the plus side he is a new face and would probably deliver Virginia's 15 electoral votes to us as well as 2 or 3 other Southern states, imo. But is he progressive enough? probably not enough for many of us.