More fun with Freepers

[Mythsaje]

In reference to tax cuts for the wealthy:

<<Sounds like you are one of those folks that think we can tax ourselves into prosperity.

You do NOT create jobs by increasing the cost of doing business.>>


No, but we also don't create prosperity by giving money to people who have more motivation to send that money outside of the country by way of investing in foreign labor rather than spending it internally on American workers.

Poppy Bush called it "voodoo economics." It's also known as "the trickle-down theory." Either way it's a siphoning of American resources on the ground for the benefit of the few.

The average wage is going down and decreasing the spending power of the average citizen. When the average American citizen has decreased spending power, it adversely affects local economies.

Your philosophy, in its way, is JUST as bad as the communists, in that it's all or nothing with you folks. There is no understanding that we need to balance capitalism with a sense of community responsibility and an interest in promoting the common welfare. Giving huge tax breaks to the ultra rich does NOTHING, in and of itself, to help the economy. It all relies on how those tax breaks are spent, or not spent, into the economies where those people live.

You abandon the notion of the "commons" and make everything about individuals. We are not solitary creatures, and never, in our history, has anything been accomplished by individuals at the expense of the community. What you folks emphasize is the exaltation of the individual OVER the pack, and, for social creatures, that's simply destructive behavior at its worst.

I find it rather sad, frankly, because you know not what you do. And you neither understand nor want to understand why it's a problem.

[NoAmericanTaliban]

1. People that are stupid don't know they are stupid..

proven scientific fact. The part of brain that makes you stupid also keeps you from knowing about it. It's not their fault, its just their brain. Think of them as a bunch of scarecrows. Good response. Did they repond to you?

[Mythsaje]

2. Not yet...

But I'm having fun answering another comment re: Congress authorizing the President to conduct the "war on terror."

No. Congress is not granted the power to give that authority to the President without oversight. Congress can declare war. The President cannot. They gave him the authority to deal with the situation at hand after 9/11, which he has subsequently turned into a form of carte blanche to do anything he wants to prosecute what is, on the surface, an impossible war against a faceless enemy for an indefinite amount of time.

There is nothing in the Constitution that allows the President this authority and, frankly, I'm surprised that people who claim to understand the Constitution would say that there is.

Furthermore, this administration has left GAPING holes in our security to pursue a war against someone he should have well known wasn't a threat, and let the criminal allegedly responsible for the attacks that precipitated this apparent power grap escape into obscurity and left Afghanistan in the hands of drug warlords except for the small area surrounding the capitol.

The administration didn't leave enough soldiers in place in Afghanistan to secure the country or pursue the Taliban to its ultimate destruction, siphoned off those soldiers to attack a country that was not a threat, and is now making noises at Iran suggesting that it has the resources to attack that country, which we know it doesn't.

Had a Democratic administration done any of this stuff, you people would have been up in arms and I find it amusing that you find it so easy to rationalize it just because YOUR party is in charge. You put loyalty to party above loyalty to country and condemn US for being unpatriotic.

I'd say I was astounded, but, frankly, I expected nothing less.

[tabasco]

3. Here's a place with no taxes. All republicans should move there.

No gun control laws either.

[Not Sure]

4. The success of trickle-down economics

pivots on whether the beneficiaries of the tax cuts will "share the wealth." And I think it's pretty clear that you don't get rich or stay rich by sharing.

Freepers believe that they will be rich one day, and in the interim, entertain a fantasy that they are part of the "upper middle class" when the reality is that most of them are mortgaged to the eyeballs and one paycheck away from being homeless. When that layoff finally comes their famous "helping hand at the end of their own arm" will rip their threadbare bootstraps from their holey shoes on their way to register as Democrats.

Favorite homemade sign from the '04 campaign: "Are you broke enough yet? Vote Democrat"

[Mythsaje]

5. Republicanism, as I say, is political Satanism.

Actually, I think Satanists have more moral fiber.

:evilgrin:

[bookman]

10. You are so right...

..they do live the fantasy. They are leveraged over their heads. Someday the over mortgaged homes, and credit card debt will catch up with them.

It's one thing to keep up with the Joneses. Another to keep up with the corporate execs.

[AllegroRondo]

23. Or as I like to put it...

No company ever hired someone just because it had extra money laying around. They hire to meet demand for their products and services.

Give tax breaks to corporations and the rich, and they have no incentive to hire people with it, or 'trickle it down'. Spend the tax break money on education and infrastructure, and demand will increase, giving companies a reason to hire.

[SheilaT]

6. during the 1950's

we had a steadily growing economy, and improvements in many aspects of our lives. (I'm conveniently overlooking the racism and sexism of that era, I know). And, guess what? We had some of the highest tax rates ever. Corporations and citizens both paid taxes.

Do you suppose there's a connection?

Naaah.

[Mythsaje]

7. Ain't it amazing?

The Golden Age of the American Middle Class. Yeah, the sexism and racism was screwed up--imagine how good it could have been had those not been an issue.

THAT'S what we want to see. Not completely insane of us, is it?

[JohnnyRingo]

8. They really count on sound bites for their logic

"Trickle down"
"Tax cuts spur the economy"
(they can't seem to pin down when it starts)
I saw quotes over there about "Syrians and Iranians causing a civil war to embarass us"

They easily buy into any rationalization for voting Republican, that's why they need Rush. I think they get less traffic on political topics on the weekends...when there're no radio shows.

[Mythsaje]

9. But there's no evidence

that tax cuts spur the economy. And even if they did, it makes more sense that the economy would be stimulated better from the bottom up.

Of course, that's a stance they'd see as insane for some crazy reason...

[JohnnyRingo]

15. I know....I remember when the economy soared during the 90s...

..Repubs proclaimed that Reagan's trickle down was in effect.
Hahaha...like it skipped right over HW Bush (presumably because of that "read my lips" thing.}
Then when it stalled during this administration's tax cuts, they claimed the "Clinton Gore Recession".

I told one that we need a Democrat in '08 so GW's tax cuts can finally kick in.

[Mythsaje]

16. I remember that in the '90s

employment was a lot more of a seller's market than a buyer's market. Companies were hungry for workers. Now it's the opposite.

In my opinion, that's not a good thing.

If all politics is local, all economics is local as well, or so it can be argued. If people are paid well, they spend that money locally, which benefits the local economy, and trickles UP to the national economy.

THAT makes one hell of a lot more sense than the other way around.

[KharmaTrain]

11. Spin Their Pointed Heads Further

I love when I get in this debate to ask the question about what he expects from his government. Does he expect the highways that move materials to be maintained? The rail lines to move the commerce to market? The air traffic control system so he doesn't have to sit for 3 hours on the tarmac. They can never figure out that it takes money for these services and someone has to pay for it. Then you go into education and health care and their heads explode.

Cheers...

[Mythsaje]

12. Nah...

these folks want to privatize everything, not realizing that they're then handing everything over to people with no obligation to make sure they get the best possible service available, who are beholden first to their stockholders, and can justify almost anything to delivery higher profits, including sub-standard services and denial of benefits if it suits their purposes.

I know these folks. I used to chat with them on a regular basis and had, sadly, hoped that their minds had opened slightly over the past few years.

[Hissyspit]

13. Actually you CAN increase jobs by raising the costs of doing business

depending on what those costs are going to over the long run. More false dichotomy from the "EVERYTHING IS BLACK AND WHITE even when it is not even based on fact" crowd.

[Mythsaje]

14. I know...

that's one of the reasons I deliberately compared them to communists...they both think there's only ONE way to look at things.

[zbdent]

17. Are you banned yet from FR?

I mean, you're making sense, and that doesn't last long over there . . .

[Mythsaje]

19. It's not FR

It's the about.com Civil Liberties boards. I'm not sure what it takes to get banned from there. They do have a new mod, but the whole Free Speech thing is taken VERY seriously there. I'm not sure anything's out of bounds.

[zbdent]

21. My apologies

A classic "knee-jerk" reaction . . .

[Mythsaje]

22. 'sokay...

I would NEVER post at FR...those people make my debating partners at CL look SANE.

[Blue_Tires]

18. idiots

if the 'cost of business' was cheaper, then the CEOs would just pocket more....there is NO garuntee that those monies get re-circulated into the economy, or more will get hired....

I've had my debates with the corporate libertarian free market worshippers as well....these truly are dark days

[Mythsaje]

20. The free market's an illusion...

And they've bought into it hook, line, and sinker. I'm not sure there's anything that can wake them up to the truth.