Prorgessive Evangelicals vs Fundies: A quiet war worth fighting

[Perky]

I have noticed a recurrent theme on the fundie war as perceived by a vocal minority of DUers that I would like to take on in hopes of finding some more peaceful coexistence here on DU. This is not intended to be be flame bait... i only want dialog. Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinions and everyone is welcome to chime in. But I do not want this to digress as so many threads do.


First of all a definition: Is Progressive Evangelicalism an oxymoron. Some would say absolutely. I say "hold on". It is my belief that Jesus was precisely that. He never focused on what today's moral police do (Moral aberrance and moral absolutism) rather spoke of taking care of widows and orphans, the hungry, the poor, but he also healed the sick, cast out demons and brought sight to blind eyes.His intention was two-fold in every instance: Help those in need and evangelize All of which is pretty cool stuff (stuff I might add that non-evangelicals on both the left and the right never seem to get to.)

My religious problem with the fundies is that they have pretty much forgotten the Sermon on the Mount and Jesus' discourse in Garden of Gethsemane as John records it. They would rather deal with society's problems politically than with evangelism which is supposed to be there primary purpose. Jesus had little compassion for the Pharisees who took precisely the same tact. Fundies start from a really stupid and arrogant assumption that America was divinely endowed for a special place in Christian and world history, but don't deal with the sins of the past like slavery and the slaughter and internment of native americans. Worse they think God will rule supreme in the land again if we can just get Him back in the Classroom (Mandatory prayer, Creationism-Intelligent Design, and faith-based abstinence education only). As if a largely secularized institution should be doing their bidding? It is not only arrogance, it is malignant neglect of their prime responsibility to be theme\selves salt and light as Jesus commands. Their tactics so clearly betray the call of Christ to the point where I believe they dishonor God and that is why, thank God, they will never achieve their goals.

Now having said that it's my perception that the driving force behind nearly all of their machinations is a search for relevance in a post modern world )and admittedly funding that quest by raising their rabble by creating skirmishes with various bogoeyman and backing candidate who will do their bidding.) Two issues stun me the most about the approach are:

First, that the candidates they choose or rarely evangelicals, they are typically fairly secularized conservatives who are typically glomming on to an agenda they have no desire to implement. Were that so they would be legislating at the federal level on abortion when Reagan was in the Oval. They certainly should have been doing it during this presidents term.

Secondly, that their quest for relevance centers on political power rather than spiritual power. Jesus taught there is strength in humility; that in weakness we are empowered. These folks are so busy protesting Harry Potter and bad TV that they do not have time or the inkling to simply and humbly pray, worship and enjoy the empowering presence of God. I suspect that is because if they took some time to listen rather than scream at the world they would have to change their tactics.

My Fundie friends are wrong on their tactics and are being duped into believing they can be effective with the approach. I take them on individually in my daily walk...but......

Here is what my progressive friends need to hear as well. The ONLY WAY to effectively confront these folks in terms they understand. I am not saying on their terms...but on "Terms they understand". To this unabashed evangelical it really is simply about Jesus. From my perspective I am not looking to convert a single Fundy to progressive politics; I am simply trying to get them focused on how un Christ-like and counterproductive social fundamentalism is to His Cause.

Some on DU have called progressive Christians out for not standing and railing against the Fundies as a collective countering force. There are two problems with that tact. First: There is no rallying point, there is not leader of progressive evangelicalism in the US. MLK is the closest we have ever gotten to anyone approaching that type of stature the could cross denominational divides. There are Christians who are progressives and even denominations that have a progressive slant, The problem with both is that they tend to promote progressive politics more than Jesus and they are rarely bastions of evangelical fervor.

Because of their lack of evangelical focus, they are typically ignored by the Fundamentalist movement. WHich seems sort of silly because the Fundies have pretty much ignored how their tactics have pushed far more souls away from the Church than they have attracted.

Look FUndies are a scary lot when viewed from the outside..their motivation are typically very genuine and heartfelt but their tactics and hypocrisy are what make people scream. I get that.

Progressives who find themselves among fundies in a religious setting can be very effective, but likewise we also value the community itself and what Christ commands. Progressive evangelicals believe in the power of prayer; we believe in being Christ-like in what we do; We believe in only doing what God instructs us to do. It is not our desire to stand in the middle of the sanctuary and call our friends on the right a "brood of vipers". If it comes to that I am perfectly willing to do so if He instructs me to do so. But you also have to understand that in a religious community friendships run very deep and the price for such actions would be pretty substantial.

So I am content to run my little counter insurgency and wear my bumper-stickers and buttons proudly and simply dare some on to question me about my politics.

I come to DU to find some solace and support as do other Christians whether evangelical or not. I don't feel persecuted here in the least I just wish some of you would be willing to give a little more slack, a little more respect and a little more understanding.

[bunkerbuster1]

1. This needs to be repeated.

While I do not consider myself to be an evangelical progressive, I know those who are, and I know that their politics are very compatible with my own.

Thanks for a very astute set of observations; I hope others will read and absorb your message.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

2. As long as the people in power continue to beat the Progressive...

...Evangelical and Fundie drum, there will be those on this board that will look at people espousing those beliefs with a great deal of suspicion. The longer the NeoCons stay in power, the greater that suspicion will grow. They claim that God is telling them what to do, too.

[bunkerbuster1]

3. But until someone with moral authority calls out the non-Christians

who pretend to be doing Jesus' work, we're pretty much all screwed.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

4. we all can claim moral authority, religion has nothing to do with it.

nothing at all.

Moral authority comes from acts, thoughts, behavior and the quality of one's life. It has nothing to do with religion. Some of the biggest, baddest and meanest bigots dress themselves in religious clothing, go to their make-believe blessed place of worship, and claim that they are right and everyone else is wrong.

I repeat: Religion HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH morals. NOTHING.

Our biggest mistake has been failing to attack those religious people who claim that only they can be moral, and who then proceed to define our morality based on their stupid beliefs.

[bunkerbuster1]

5. By "moral authority"

I do not mean universal moral authority. Not at all.

Rather, I mean moral authority that a self-professed evangelical Christian is going to respect.

I would be delighted if more Christians respected the moral authority of those who do not share their belief system.

[Perky]

6. I agree

Morality does not emanate from religion. But by the same token, it works boh ways on the respect front.

There are some folks who claim moral superiority to the fundies and besause of the fundies wind up trashing all Christians by stereotype and gult by association.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

9. I do my fair share of trashing fundies, & I do not believe in any religion

however, I support people's rights to believe in the easter bunny, if they wish, and to worship Santa Claus, if that makes them happy. The fact that the Great Pumpkin existed at about the same time and duration as jesus means that both can be equally ignored or cherished for all I care.

But, having morals is different than claiming moral superiority.
I have morals. Are mine superior to yours? No, because you don't know mine and vice versa. We don't know each other's backgrounds, history, education, social status, cultural background, criminal records or daily activities. I refuse to say that my morals are superior, just because your s are based on a collection of fictional works called the bible. To the contrary, there are some pretty good ideas and cool stories in it. Do I believe that it is inerrant? hah! Do I think that there are lessons that should be followed within its fictional fables? Absolutely.

What I do find upsetting, two things actually, is this:
First, when someone puts their bible in my face and claims that moral authority stems from their book and ONLY their book, and I will be punished for failing to follow it (and I am talking here, not in their version of heaven) and
second, when they claim to follow their own rules they promote, but do so only when it suits them.

Today's christian seems to care more for the unborn than the neonate, and when infants need more social services, they cut funding for it, while spending millions defending Intelligent Design and Creationism in the courts. It is INSANE!.

[Maraya1969]

7. That is a good point. Maybe you could go to Free Republic and let

them know how un-Christian they are being about the death of Tom Fox. He was a progressive Christian and they acted like he was scum. They are really a scary lot.

Of course I am banned and my religion is not Christianity but you would be a great spokesperson over there, until they ban you for being too Christ like.

[bunkerbuster1]

10. Post at Freepigville? Not with your, um

fingers.

BTW, I am a Unitarian Universalist, and while I revere the teachings of Jesus, I do not worship him as a deity.

(Although sometimes I'll capitalize His pronouns out of respect.)

[ChristianLibrul]

8. It's important to recognize...

...what Jesus DIDN'T do.

He wasn't rich.

He never owned property.

He didn't start his own church.

He didn't go into politics.

He didn't have a talk show.