Biden is telling * off big time on MTP!!

[proud2BlibKansan]

Go Joe!!

Calling Iraq a 'debacle'.

[still_one]

1. oh no, looks like the repukes on Monday will be saying

anyone who critisizes this war is al queada

[Ufomammut]

2. Don't you mean...

al-CIA-da?

[yourout]

3. And where were his balls in the run up to the war.

To me it stinks of saying anything to get elected.

Actions speak louder than words.

[Dr. Jones]

5. Easy, easy...

Biden's a good man. He is speaking the truth NOW. To me, that's what's important.

I think you have to understand the pressure these guys were under in the runup to the war. In the patriotic aftermath of 9/11, and the duping of the public, and the rhetoric/lies from Bush, if even ONE Democrat voted against the war, it would not only look bad on them, but they may have been run outta DC altogether and labeled as a traitor and one who is "soft on terrorism."

Remember, it IS tough for the Dems, being in the minority and all. And there's lots of politics surrounding that.

[SHRED]

10. Yeah..."a lot of politics" alright...

Tell that to the families of the maimed and dead.

[Dr. Jones]

11. Why is it Biden's fault?

To be fair, isn't it everyone's fault who voted for the war?

I simply don't understand all this Biden-bashing.
:shrug:

[SHRED]

14. He was part of the problem...

...along with everyone else who gave Bu$h that authority.

Look, if I can do my own pre-war research on Iraq, understand it's history and angst against the West, realize that breaking that country down would be a disaster, then why the HELL couldn't our Representatives that voted "yea" have done the same?
They have staffers to help them. I don't!

I am so damn angry right now.
Why the fuck can't some of us realize that those Reps, that voted for this, have blood on their hands?
I will NEVER excuse laziness and that is apparently what they were...intellectually lazy.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. THEY WERE LIED TO!!

Which part of that do you not understand?

[SHRED]

31. Oh really?????

Then how come millions of us saw thru the lies, pre-war, and they didn't?
Hummmmm.....?

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. I saw through it because I don't trust *

But I am kinda biased. :eyes:

[SHRED]

34. Many of saw thru it because...

...we read and did our homework.

The question remains:
Why didn't those who voted for the resolution do the same?

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. They obviously trusted the info the CIA gave them

My hubby worked in army intelligence. He and I had some major arguments in the lead up to war. He kept saying I was too biased against *, the CIA knew what was going on, * couldn't get away with lying.

Now of course my hubby is willing to admit he was wrong.

[Kahuna]

50. Yeah but, they also knew what a slug bush was. Afterall, he

stole the electon in broad day light. That was the first clue that he had a secret agenda.

[alfredo]

43. Remember, nothing the Dems said or did would have stopped

bush from having his war. The junta had everything going their way, including the media. Votes in opposition would have been nothing more than symbolic, and the Junta defined the symbols.

[OzarkDem]

23. I disagree

if Dems had stood together and launched a coordinated message campaign against the Iraq war, they wouldn't be in this situation. They may not have stopped the war, but they would have raised their profiles in making an honest, intelligent objection to the war and the lies created to make it happen.

Also recall, at the time Dems would have had backing and agreement from dozens of ex-military leaders, led by Wes Clark. They had the best minds of the US military on their side, in opposition to invading Iraq.

Please tell me our Dem leaders in Congress aren't as weak and stupid as they appear. Those excuses don't wash and those massive errors in judgement render those Dem leaders as very flawed.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

30. They also would have had the support of the majority of Americans.

:think:

[Harald Ragnarsson]

33. Not by his constituents

Since he went against the vast proportion of the American People and voted for war anyway, he should be run out of town for that.

I really don't want to hear congresspeople whining they "didn't know" after receiving 1,000,000 phone calls, faxes and letters begging and pleading with them not to sign the IWR or allow this little Hitler wannabe to invade them. They can quite frankly kiss my ass.

If dumb old Blue Collar Me in the middle of no where can understand these things, then no doubt they can.

Some even say they were "fooled" by George Bush. Good god, how silly! They have no business being anywhere near Washington DC if they can be "fooled" by that frickin' moron.

[Patchuli]

46. You got that right!

How is it that those of us who had NO access to CIA info, etc. knew that Saddam was not Al Qaeda, and that Saddam didn't attack us in 2001?! That excuse of the dem senators and congressmen doesn't wash at all!

[leesa]

40. Don't buy it. They had an OBLIGATION to do their job and they didn't do

it. They did not examine the available information. They did not listen to the experts, even their own. They knew it was wrong and they let it happen...and they still won't say it was illegal.

[leftchick]

44. they were afraid

of being called unpatriotic. fucking cowards.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

47. Biden is still worried about that...

His quick answer to a pull out tells us that.

He struck me as being slightly more Dem than Lieberman.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. He said he would not have voted for the war

if he had the info he has now.

[laylah]

4. WTF

is up with Biden showing up almost EVERY Sunday on the talking heads shows? I cannot stand the man. He is one smarmy, two-faced freak, as far as I am concerned. Just my 2 cents.

Jenn

[Jim Sagle]

7. Every week it's Face Joe Biden, Meet Joe Biden, or

This Week with Joe Biden. :boring:

[OzarkDem]

16. Sick of Joe Biden n/t

[OzarkDem]

18. Following Timmy's script

Apparently Pumpkinhead has some sort of script he's following where he's trying to frame the massive GOP corruption, lies and mistakes in Iraq to make it seem an honest "mistake" not lies.

Joe is still following Timmy's lead.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

48. On PBS they had This Old Joe Biden, go figure.

[Dr. Jones]

9. Gee whiz, Jenn!

How about some constructive criticism? What SHOULD Biden do then? And why do you find him smarmy? I disagree - I think he's an honest man who's after the TRUTH. It isn't new that he's been speaking out against Bush. He HAS BEEN for the past few years!

For you Biden detractors - Where do you think did Biden went wrong?

[clmbohdem]

12. Bankruptcy Reform Bill = MBNA slave

[OzarkDem]

20. Bush's run up to the Iraq invasion

was incredibly transparent in its manipulation of facts and lies. If Biden had any credibility or brains, he would have been objecting to it back then - before the invasion - not 3 or 4 years later.

Hell, if all of us on Dem forums could figure out Bush was lying, surely an experienced senator could have, right?

[tabasco]

42. The spineless Dems didn't want to look "soft" on security.

Thanks for thinking about the men and women of the military assholes!


Biden and the rest of these fools that voted for war can go to hell as far as I'm concerned.

Both of my senators were wise enough to see through the bullshit, and had the moral courage to oppose the slings and arrows of those who would attack them as "soft on national defense."

It seems that any war that comes along, no matter how unjustified, will have cowards voting for it, so they look "strong on defense."

Biden, Clinton and all the other cowards that voted for it will never have my support.

[Kahuna]

51. I'll break it down for you. We all KNOW that the votes by dems

for the war were based on political considerations, not national security. In the face of the 2002 elections, they didn't want to be seen as weak on national security because bush was still a popular war time president at that time. Still, there were some Dems who did the right thing. Sure, they were in safe blue states. But so was Biden. Of the blue state Dems who voted for the IWR the majority (Kerry, Lieberman, Biden and Clinton) had presidential ambitions.

It doesn't matter that they knew bush would invade Iraq anyway. Most of us anti war protestors knew it too. Still, we wanted to be on record as opposing this illegal and perverted attack on a defenseless country that never did anything to us. We wanted our so called leaders to be on record also. And so we are especially hard on blue state Dems who whored their votes because of political ambitions.

[SHRED]

6. Oh...I see...

"Sen. Joseph Biden, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, told CNN on Friday that the president challenged "the United Nations to be more than a paper tiger" in his speech Thursday.

"It was to say to the United Nations, 'By your standards ... you have not done your job relative to Saddam Hussein,'" said Biden, D-Delaware.

The senator said officials were privy to "more intelligence information" that he said was "more appropriate at a closed setting than a public setting." Biden also said he expected Bush would "get whatever authority he seeks" once he makes public more detail of his plan."

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/09/13/un.security/index.html?related

-------------------

H J Res 114.
Resolution Authorizing the Use of Force in Iraq/Final Passage of Bill to Allow an Unprovoked U.S. Attack Against Iraq.
Biden (D-DE), Yea

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=2&vote=00237

------------------

Fuck you Joe and the horse you rode in on.

[yourout]

8. Substitute Iraq for Iran in this post and you have what is coming....

soon to a theatre near you.

[Dr. Jones]

13. I just don't think that's being very fair to Biden.

I can understand your anger that Biden voted FOR the war, but then again, SO DID EVERYONE ELSE! What, are you going to chastize all the rest of our Democrat brethren based on this one mistake?

Again, I just wish more people would at least TRY to understand the pressure these good folks were under to vote in support of the war.

And remember THIS. They didn't vote FOR THE WAR. They voted to give the President authorization to use any means possible, up to and including military action, to settle the matter of Iraq. THIS ALSO MEANS GIVING THE PRESIDENT AUTHORITY TO USE DIPLOMACY FIRST. This is what they expected Bush to do, but instead Bush immediately went to war.

[SHRED]

15. Bullshit

What do you mean "everyone else"?

That's just bullshit.

[SHRED]

19. Read for yourself:

Dems who voted against:

21 in the Senate
126 in the House
____
147 Total


Repubs who voted against:

1 in the Senate
6 in the House
___

7 Total


http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=2&vote=00237

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2002/roll455.xml#N

[ret5hd]

21. it's funny though...

the pres doesn't need anyones authority to use diplomacy, does he? so, the only additional authority that was given to * was war.

[liveoaktx]

26. He voted for the war. Okay. But instead of putting the emphasis

on bush incompetence, I want him to say "It was WRONG to go there in the first place"

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. I thought that was what he was saying today

But the broadcast kept being interrupted by weather alerts from the local station, so I could have misinterpreted what he was saying, since I never got to hear it all.

[Harald Ragnarsson]

35. Yes, everyone voted for it

Throw the whole goddamn stinking rotten mess of them out. Biden included.

[SHRED]

37. No they didn't

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x638912#639088

[Sperk]

17. I call him "Foaming Joe", he likes to get all foamy at the mouth

at senate hearings, try to look all tough and righteous...then he does NOTHING!

[SHRED]

22. Joe was "stunned"?

No Joe.
We're stunned at you for thinking they were competent, in the first place.
http://www.canofun.com/cof/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=17664

[earthside]

24. Don't Get Excited

When the multi-billion dollar appropriation for more war funding comes to the Senate floor .... BS Biden will vote yes.

No, he will not offer an amendment to add the Iraq war money to the budget totals; no, he won't propose an amendment for withdrawal within six months; no, he won't suggest taking the money out of "missile defense" to pay for Bush's wars ... it's all talk on TV to make the progressives 'think' he might be okay. But Biden's votes always tell the only story that counts. He's an elitist, establishment, inside-the-beltway good ol'boy.

:puke: Surely, the word "bloviate" was invented for Biden.

[Deja Q]

25. I usually call him 'Bidet'...

And you're right, particularly regarding his voting record.

[confludemocrat]

49. Right, he papers over his pro-war "we could do it better" stance this way

i.e., with his feigned outrage at something he has supported from the beginning, like just criticizing the troop levels as not high enough and that we need to "stabilize" Iraq (like that's suddenly gonna start happening if only he was in charge), leaving it to the Repubs to withdraw when they choose and leaving him out on a limb as supporting the war even as the last troops withdraw.

[Lexingtonian]

27. Yeah, kinda cute

I don't have great love for Joe, but he looked like a genius compared to George Allen. WTF do people see in Allen???

[natrat]

38. puppet masters instructing their agents to distance from shrub nt

[opihimoimoi]

41. If Joe won the Nom, I would work for him...He would be a damn better

Prez than the one we got now....who is a POS.

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. Agreed

I am not crazy about him but he's a HUGE improvement over the dickhead we have now.

[Joe Fields]

52. Double agreed.

Look, the dems made the mistake of not having a backbone and demanding time to think the situation carefully through. However, Bush had everyone cornered and right where he wanted them. What would most of us done in their situation? If you didn't act with the Presidick, you were un-American and not worthy of being a leader. You were branded "a soft, weak little "liberal pussy."

It's time we begin to try understanding the dilemna that the dems in Washington faced at that time. The Bush administration worked ALL Americans up into a lather fairly quickly, and it wasn't hard for him to do. Especially with the duplicity of the MSM.

[opihimoimoi]

53. Bush has gone too far....and now the peeps see it clearly...He is a POS

who happens to be INEPT and OUT OF TOUCH