Must Read: WHO SENT THE ANTHRAX?

[Julius Civitatus]

Five years after, the strange case of the anthrax mailer is still unresolved. The only thing that is known for sure is that the anthrax was US-made, and weaponized in US facilities. The culprit, who may have gotten away with his murders, seemed quite professional in his handling of the toxin, and had an intention to provoke panic. Also, the culprit only sent anthrax letters to the leaders of the Democratic party in the Senate, and to various representatives of the "liberal media."

This new article in Counterpunch brings some interesting questions to this worrisome case:

http://counterpunch.org/werther02182006.html

(...)
5. Why did the mysterious anthrax attacks come and go like a wraith?

For those in immediate proximity to the events, the September 11attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon were frightening in the extreme, but they had not the slow accumulation of dread that the anthrax scare of October 2001 presented. Far more than any anomaly concerning 9/11 itself, the anthrax mystery is the undecoded Rosetta Stone of recent years.

The anthrax attacks were the most anomalous terrorist attacks in history: clever, successful, unpunished, causing five deaths and a billion dollars' damage. Yet never repeated. This alone makes them remarkable in the annals of criminal activity, but there is more--the intended victims (at least those with an official position) were warned in writing of their peril in sufficient detail that they could take steps to administer an antidote. Is this characteristic of terrorist attacks by "al Qaeda," or by any known Middle Eastern terrorist group?

Except for the ambiguous first attack (which killed a National Enquirer photo editor), all the deaths resulting from the anthrax plot were incidental--mail handlers and innocent recipients of mail which had been contaminated by proximity to the threat letters. Evidently the West Jefferson anthrax strain was more powerful and had greater accidental effects than the plotters had intended.

But what did the plotters intend, if they did not will the deaths of the addressees of their anthrax letters? It was pure coincidence, perhaps, that the anthrax scare was at its height, producing psychosomatic illness symptoms among members of Congress and staffers, just as the USA PATRIOT Act was wending its way through the legislative process. This measure, which originated among the same Justice Department lawyers who legally opined that torture was wholesome, was rammed through the Congress after enactment of the authorization of the use of force in Afghanistan. Why is this sequence significant?

The then-majority leader of the U.S. Senate, Tom Daschle, wrote a curious op-ed in the Washington Post four years after the events just described. <8>. In attempting to refute the administration's allegation that it had been granted plenary wiretap powers in the Afghanistan authorization, he stated that he and his Senatorial confreres explicitly rejected an administration proposal to authorize an effective state of war within the borders of the United States itself.

Given the administration's repeatedly demonstrated refusal to accept any limitation on its powers, it is logical that the rebuff on the war powers authorization was followed by the prompt submittal of the Justice Department's draft of the PATRIOT Act, containing many of the domestic authorities the Bush White House had sought in the use of force legislation. How doubly coincidental that two of the limited number of addressees of the threat letters should have been the offices of Daschle himself, and Sen. Patrick Leahy, then-chairman of the committee of jurisdiction over the PATRIOT Act.

Needless to say, the measure was passed by an even more comfortable margin than that enjoyed by the 1933 Enabling Law in the Reichstag. <9> Notwithstanding buyer's remorse exhibited by many members of Congress, and current efforts to amend its more onerous provisions, it appears we are saddled with the main burdens of its edicts in perpetuity.

How the government placed this perpetual burden on its citizens is bound up with the mysterious anthrax scare of October 2001, an outrage that, unlike 9/11, does not even merit an official explanation. No one has been charged.

(...)

Much more in the full article:

http://counterpunch.org/werther02182006.html

Very interesting indeed.

[file83]

1. Excellent article! k&r.

[MadMaddie]

2. I always thought the timing was suspicious....

I am joining the conspiracy crowd on this one....I think the * cabal had a hand in the Anthrax...:tinfoilhat:

[Julius Civitatus]

5. The timing, the recipients, the lack of clues...

you name it! Everything in this case was weird, unusual and extremely convenient in time for the approval of the Patriot Act.

[Warpy]

7. ...the involvement of the CIA lab at Ft Detrick

that produced the weaponized anthrax that couldn't be handled outside that facility without causing environmental contamination.

You bet this was an inside job.

[electropop]

46. It's how the GOP continues to intimidate Dems in Congress.

It's not the ridiculous charges they hurl all the time. It's a simple blunt death threat. "And next time, you won't know it's there until you're dead."

[Marie26]

36. Me too

I'll join the tin-foil crowd too on this one, too - no way this came from a Muslim terrorist (though they so clearly wanted us to think that). And once you've decided that they're capable of that, you have to also accept the possibility that they're capable of much worse. Though I like debunking cons. theories sometimes, I do believe this one. Whether it's from Bushies, rogue Pentagon, CIA, who knows. But foreign terrorists? No.

[lovuian]

3. I always thought it was suspicious with daschele and leahy getting

the letters

and Judith Miller was a smokescreen

Yep we never caught the Anthrax killer or Osama the ones who helped Bush win and forget the stolen election of 2000... plus add going to Iraq War

[ellenfl]

4. we need a good whistle blower . . . if he/she is still alive. eom

[Julius Civitatus]

8. May be too late for that... Remember Dr. Don Wiley?

Dr. Don Wiley
Age: 57, Vanished December 16, 2001. Howard Hughes Medical Institute, Harvard University, top Deadly Contagious Virus expert, vanished; abandoned rental car was found on the Hernando de Soto Bridge outside Memphis, TN. He was heavily involved in research on DNA sequencing, and was last seen at around midnight on November 16, leaving the St. Jude's Children's Research Advisory Dinner at The Peabody Hotel in Memphis, TN. Associates attending the dinner said he showed no signs of intoxication, and no one has admitted to drinking with him.

I remember reading back in 2002 that many micro-biologists died in mysterious circumstances in the months immediately following 9/11.

If there ever was a reason to wear your tinfoil hat, this would be it.

:tinfoilhat:

[Julius Civitatus]

14. Here's a list of missing scientists since 2001

A quick Google provided this list of micro-biologists killed or disappeared in strange circumstances since 2001:

http://www.stevequayle.com/dead_scientists/dead.scientists.chron.html

:scared:

[ellenfl]

16. holy cow! what is the %? higher than statistical probablity? eom

[Julius Civitatus]

17. Yeah. It was incredible, especially right after 9/11

The folks at Salon's boards were following these strange deaths very closely, since some people there had known Dr. Wiley or were acquaintance with him (if I recall correctly). There was a thread dedicated to this matter alone, and I remember that in 2002 micro-biologists were falling like flies.

Seriously, at the time, micro-biologist may have been a profession riskier than coal mining or Alaskan fishing.

Food for thought, at the very least.

[druidity33]

26. someone should...

Find out who the rest of the microbiologists in the world are, take the top twenty and see if they are being followed or bugged by the US Military Industrial Complex... catch em in the act. I'm tired of all this theorizin'! Lets's git um! Surely we can put our minds together and figure out some devious plan of theirs BEFORE it happens... these guys are working on formula. Thinking cap on...

[in_cog_ni_to]

19. GEEZUS! That's too damn convenient for my tastes.

:scared:

[Julius Civitatus]

22. What's disturbing is how many of those scientists died by

random beatings, in unresolved cases of "anonymous" random muggings, or unexplained accidents (falling off bridges in bizarre, remote settings, etc). That list would send chills down your spine.

Bizarre. Very bizarre, IMHO.

[in_cog_ni_to]

23. It DID send chills down my spine!

Sheesh. These people are evil.

[Jara sang]

51. Yeah, they were mostly young, too.

[bvar22]

6. USA attacked with REAL WMD on Bush* watch.

Terrorists STILL FREE!!!

Everytime some ditto head says,"There haven't been any more terrorist attacks on the US since bush* took control, remind them of this.
As horrible as 9-11 was, it used conventional weapons.
There has been only ONE attack on the USA using REAL WMD, and that was the anthrax attacks after 9-11.

Bush* and the Republican have FAILED to bring these terrorists to justice, and as far as anyone can tell, Bush* and the Republicans aren't even looking for these terrorists.

Bill Clinton CAUGHT, brought to TRIAL, and IMPRISONED ALL terrorists guilty in the 1st bombing of the WTC.
He did it without starting a WAR on an innocent country.
He didn't murder ANY innocent civilians.
He didn't throw away a TRILLION DOLLARS.
He didn't need to violate the Constitution.
He didn't SPY on law abiding American citizens!

[xchrom]

9. k & r

it's at least worthy of being considered.

[China_cat]

10. Doesn't anybody remember the dire warnings

that the country was going to attacked with anthrax that flooded the news and airwaves right after 9/11? And then, right on schedule, there were anthrax attacks.

[Julius Civitatus]

11. Cheney and Bush started taking Cipro the week after 9/11

Seriously, look it up. They both were put on Cipro immediately after the WTC attacks. No other drug. No other vaccine. Cipro.
This is a drug specifically used to fight bacterial infections and the only drug effective against anthrax.

Interesting.

[Hubert Flottz]

20. Cipro is NOT the only drug that they could have used.

There were drugs made in the US(doxycycline)that cost a few pennies a pill that would have worked also. Bush paid Bayer about a dollar a pill for the Cipro. WHY?

http://www.cptech.org/ip/health/cl/cipro/

NO PROFIT, NO CURE
Issue of 2001-11-05
Posted 2001-10-29


Last week, the United States won what was deemed a victory in the war on bioterrorism. Tommy Thompson, the Secretary of Health and Human Services, cut a deal with the Bayer Corporation to buy a huge batch of the anti-anthrax drug Cipro at ninety-five cents a tablet, half what Bayer had been asking. Thompson "negotiated" the lower price by threatening to break Bayer's patent on the drug.

The ultimatum was curious, given that there was no real Cipro shortage, and that, as one of Thompson's own advisers said, other drugs, such as doxycycline, have been shown to be just as effective against anthrax. In fact, after the deal, other drug companies cleverly offered to donate shipments of their own antibiotics to the government, as long as the Food and Drug Administration authorized them for use against anthrax. (The offer was good P.R. and good business, given the commercial value of the F.D.A.'s imprimatur.) So Thompson's threat to commandeer the Cipro patent was a response not to a medical crisis but to a political one. The Bush Administration was under a great deal of pressure, most notably from Senator Charles Schumer, who had been pushing it to override Bayer's patent. "One company should not be able to stand in the way of the health needs of the nation," Schumer told me last week. "And Bayer should not be reaping profits from this crisis."

It's an appealing sentiment, but Schumer's cure is worse than the disease. Profits are the reason that drugs like Cipro exist in the first place. Bayer invested hundreds of millions of dollars to develop and produce Cipro because it believed that it would own the Cipro patent for sixteen years—enough time for it to recoup its investment and reward its shareholders. Proclaiming that companies shouldn't profit in a time of need is a fine way to discourage them from making such investments.

We don't have to guess what happens to antibiotic research and development when profits dry up. We know, because we saw what happened thirty years ago. At that point, the battle against infectious disease appeared to have been won, at least in the developed world. In 1967, the Surgeon General, William Stewart, declared, "The time has come to close the book on infectious diseases. We have basically wiped out infection in the United States." The old drugs could handle whatever bugs came along; there was no market for new ones. So drug companies essentially stopped putting money into antibiotic research. Besides, given the choice between making an antibiotic that a person might take for two weeks once in a lifetime or developing an antidepressant that a person would take every day for the rest of his life, drug companies naturally opted for the latter. That's why in the past twenty-five years they have developed just one new class of antibiotic; and it's why in 1999 only three of the thirty-five new drugs approved by the F.D.A. were antibiotics. The blockbusters of the nineteen-nineties that treated chronic conditions—depression, high cholesterol, impotence—were drugs like Prozac, Lipitor, and Viagra. Biotechnology just followed the money. MORE...

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/content/articles/011105ta_talk_the_financial_page

[Julius Civitatus]

24. I know that, but they specifically used Cipro

They coudl have taken steps to protect themselves from a wide variety of potential attacks... but they went with Cipro.

That was my point.

[Hubert Flottz]

25. I thought they were Pushing Cipro all along too.

I think they bailed Bayer out of paying for their part, in the Nazi death camp crimes.

Edit...I had heard, when the big scare was going on, that doxycycline and probably some other American made drugs, were as effective against anthrax as Cipro was.

Here is what I'm talking about...Right when Bayer had to pay for it's horrid sins of the past...Wham Bush spends a billion dollars on Bayer???? When he could have bought the pills that would have worked against anthrax, in this country, cheaper...WHY??????

Survivor of Nazi Sterilization Experiments Says $8,000 Isn't Enough

Wed, 19 Nov 2003

Simon Rozenkier, now 75, a survivor of Nazi medical experiments has filed a lawsuit two German pharmaceutical giants, against Bayer and Schering, who supplied the infamous Dr. Josef Mengele with "experts" and the experimental drugs used to sterilize him.

Dr. Jay Lifton, author of "The Nazi Doctors" notes, "Certainly there was widespread sterilization and castration, and all this was part of a distorted racial vision that sought to destroy the capacity to reproduce in ostensibly inferior races and especially Jews."

Simon Rozenkier bears living testimony to the ultimate goal of eugenics, a pseudoscience that has proven itself to be a front for deliberate ethnic and racial extinction. He said his life was spared because the Nazi doctors thought he had unusual genes inasmuch as he had reddish blond hair--supposedly an Aryan feature. His family, including his 3 sisters and brother were not spared, and the experiments rendered him incapable of producing children of his own.

Mr. Rozenkier, is suing Bayer and Schering because "records show that doctors from Schering participated in the sterilization work at Birkenau and other camps, while drugs Bayer developed were used in sterilizations." MORE...

http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/03/11/19.php

Materials About Bayer´s Nazi-past:
Bayer "Aryanized" Jewish Cemetery
Newly found documents show that in 1942 IG Farben´s branch office in Uerdingen, Germany got hold of the town's Jewish cemetery. The forced sale price was way below the actual market value: 100,000 square meter property for 3,000 Reichsmark. After the war the property was passed on to IG Farben´s successor BAYER AG.

The Nazis dissolved the Jewish Community of Uerdingen in 1942. Today all traces of the Jewish cemetery in Uerdingen have been completely obliterated. The city archive indicates that the cemetery was located approximately where the main gate to the BAYER factory currently stands.

The COORDINATION AGAINST BAYER-DANGERS demands that the company publicly apologize for the defilement of the Uerdingen cemetery and affix a memorial plaque to the main gate of the company´s Uerdingen works. Hans Frankenthal, former slave worker in IG Farben´s plant in Auschwitz and board member of the Jewish Community: "I was terrified when I learned from this offence against Jewish belief. According to our faith, taking possession of the cemetery without exhuming the bodies is tantamount to defiling the graves."

BAYER today is living off the fruits of Nazi legalism. On paper everything was legally correct: Julius Israel Kohn from the "Association of Jews in the German Reich" and Bernhard Hoffmann, the representative of IG Farben, signed the sales agreement in a notary´s office, and the copy of this seemingly standard real estate transaction has a stamp from the Krefeld tax office.MORE...

http://www.cbgnetwork.org/365.html

Experimental Auschwitz

Auschwitz applied most of its energies to killing people, but its openness to virtually any form of human manipulation inevitably resulted in a wide variety of additional experiments. Eduard Wirths, as chief doctor, was the Auschwitz sponsor and facilitator of most of these experiments, particularly those in which there was interest from Berlin at a higher level. An example here is the continuous experimental activity of SS Captain Dr. Helmuth Vetter, a key figure in pharmacological “trials” in Auschwitz and elsewhere. He was employed for many years with Bayer Group WII of the I. G. Farben Industry, Inc., Leverkusen, and, at Auschwitz, retained his connections. He ran medical trials for Bayer in Auschwitz and Mauthausen (and possibly in other camps) on several therapeutic agents, including sulfa medications and other preparations whose content is not exactly known.* More...

http://www.holocaust-history.org/lifton/LiftonT291.shtml

Offer called too low to compensate Nazi-era slave laborers

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Lawyers for people who worked as Nazi-era slaves and forced laborers called a compensation offer from leading German companies unacceptably low and threatened to walk out when negotiations resume Wednesday.

At a Washington news conference Tuesday, slave laborers, survivors and their attorneys urged the companies to finish the talks quickly and offer "meaningful compensation."

Among the 16 German firms directly involved in the talks are Bayer, BASF and Hoechst -- successors to the IG Farben pharmaceutical and chemical conglomerate that made poison gas used in Nazi extermination camps. There are an estimated 1.5 million to 2.4 million survivors of slave and forced laborers.

Carmakers Volkswagen, DaimlerChrysler and BMW, as well as Germany's top three banks -- Deutsche Bank, Dresdner Bank and Commerzbank -- are also represented. More...

http://www.cnn.com/US/9910/05/nazi.labor/

Bayer predecessor financed torture in concentration camps
by Co-ordination against the Dangers of Bayer, Germany

snip>

The BAYER control centre

The control centre for IG Farben conducted human experiments came from BAYER. The notorious scientific department was directed by Wilhelm Mann. He was also manager and a member of governing board of the Cyclone B monopoly, Degesch. He carried out the annihilation of Jews with indifference and recognised human experimentation as an example of progress. The BAYER researcher, Prof. Gerhard Domagk, conducted human experiments for germ warfare under contracts from the SS. He was later awarded the Nobel prise for medicine for his discovery of sulphonamide. Sulphonamide was first tested on humans who were infested with gangrene and finally treated with antibiotics from BAYER. Death was inclusive.

It appears that all at the IG Farben company had an interest in human experimentation. IG Farben top managers, Bütefisch, von Schnitzler, Ambros, ter Meer and Dürrfeld met with Auschwitz's factory head, Rudolf Höß and SS leader Heinrich Himmler on friendly terms at Auschwitz. The correspondence between BAYER and the Auschwitz concentration camp gruesomely documented experiments on humans. BAYER put an order for 150 women, necessary for new experiments. They were deemed as "sufficient" despite "their miserable state of health" after "delivery". There it meant, "the experiment have been carried out. All test objects are dead. We would like to inform you that we will be needing a new delivery shortly."


Continuity until today

IG Farben lost only 13% percent of their capacity in air strikes during the Second World War. Industrial plants were hardly bombed because the Americans knew that IG Farben delivered aeroplane fuel via the Rockefeller group. After the war who was chosen to be the judge of the lawsuit against IG Farben management during the Nuremberg trials but Howard C. Peterson. Peterson was a former partner of the New York law firm, Cravath, Gersdorff, Swain & Wood. They represented the interests of IG Farben after the war in the USA.

IG Farben board member, Fritz ter Meer became the chairman of the board for BAYER in 1956. He said during the Nuremberg trials on the topic of human experiments that "concentration camp prisoners were not subjected to exceptional suffering, because they would have been killed anyway". Eleven of the IG Farben managers were set free. Six received prison sentences from 18 months to 3 years. Ter Meer received a 7 year sentence, while Ambros and Dürrfeld received eight years. All those convicted were released from prison early. Some were included in the succeeding management team of the IG Farben Cartel. Much More...

http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/bayer.html

[Hubert Flottz]

27. And check out this story...

Congress Bars EPA from accepting human pesticide data

Thu, 28 Jul 2005

Thank you Senator Barbara Boxer and Representative Hilda Solis for leading the charge to stop the Environmental Protection Agency in its tracks.

The EPA was formulating rules that would have oveturened the Nuremberg Code prohibition against using poisonous substances in experiments involving human beings.

The Washington Post reports that: "A draft of the rules envisions permitting the agency to accept data from human tests on children, pregnant women, newborns, infants and fetuses. Even newborns of "uncertain viability" could be tested under the draft EPA rule."

It is particularly distrubing that the EPA--and its new chief-- has come under the influence of the worst environmental polluters who are pressuring the agency to test their poisonous products on humans in order to lift restrictions on the amount of pesticides that may be used. More...

http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/05/07/28.php

Go read this...Bayer is in on this too!

[Hubert Flottz]

29. More on Bayer...

snip>

5.2. Scams, Blags and Corporate Bullying

Anthrax Drug Monopoly

Amidst anthrax attacks and widespread fears of exposure, Bayer has refused to allow other pharmaceutical firms to produce ciprofloxacin hydrochloride, so that they can profit from sales of Cipro, their patented drug that cures anthrax.<226>

Gilman and Pastor, LLP, are now prosecuting a nationwide class action lawsuit on behalf of all persons in the US who purchased or paid for Cipro, accusing Bayer AG of entering into unlawful agreements with Barr Laboratories, Inc. and Hoechst Marion Roussel, Inc. under which, in exchange for over $50 million per year, Barr and Hoechst Marion Roussel agreed not to manufacture or market a generic version of Cipro.<227>

The U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary threatened to override Bayer's patent unless they agreed to lower the price of the pill, which Bayer promptly agreed. "Activists and health officials from developing countries say it is unreasonable for a rich country to challenge patents after a handful of Anthrax cases resulted in four deaths, while its policy is to discourage poor countries from overriding patents to address the AIDS epidemic." the San Francisco Examiner reported.

http://archive.corporatewatch.org/profiles/bayer/bayer5.htm

Someone could do several threads just on the information here at this link...WOW.

Bayer AG
A Corporate Profile
By Corporate Watch UK
Completed March 2002

Summary

Bayer AG is a massive German based chemicals and pharmaceuticals manufacturer. It has operations in most countries worldwide and had global sales for 2000 of nearly $30 billion.<1> Its operations are divided into four sectors: Health, Agriculture, Polymers (plastics, synthetic rubber) and Chemicals. It has recently acquired Aventis' controversial cropscience business, making it a key player in the development, commercialisation and sale of GM crops. As a major player in 4 controversial sectors for over 125 years Bayer has a distinguished history of corporate crimes ranging from the manufacture and sale of controversial drugs (Heroin, Ciproxin and Baycol), the development of chemical warfare agents and poisons (Chlorine Gas, Zyklon B and VX), the use of forced labour during WW2, and numerous cases of poisoning, side-effects and environmental pollution connected to its chemical and pharmaceutical products. In December 2001, Multinational Monitor rated Bayer AG as one of their Top Ten Worst Companies of the year. Tons more...

http://archive.corporatewatch.org/profiles/bayer/bayer1.html

[Hubert Flottz]

44. Kick

:kick:

[Richard Steele]

13. I sure do. They were beating the 'Anthrax' drum pretty loudly.

And as you say, the Anthrax turned up right on schedule.

[femrap]

35. I remember seeing that building in Florida with the name,

'American Media,' I believe. That was the company that owned the National Enquirer...and the photographer who was killed was the one who had shot that picture of the Bush twins drunk (I read this but don't have the link...but I sure would like to see who took that photo.)

Another thing that bothered me was that an elderly women way out in Vermont or Connecticutt or somewhere was killed with this anthrax. She rarely went out and no one could figure out how she could have contacted this anthrax. I always thought that this elderly woman was the link....I remember thinking at the time that this woman had been Rove's piano teacher or something and that he always wanted to hurt her. I just had the feeling that she was a link to someone....?? OK...I know...I think someone should check out that elderly women's life...and see whose path she crossed.

[JanusAscending]

39. Talk about TIN FOIL HATS!!!

Get a grip man!!(or woman) We gotta stop making stuff up!! It makes us look stupid!! The woman you mention was a widow who lived alone, and she lived in Oxford Ct. She went out once a week to her hairdresser to get her hair done. She was 90 some years old, and used to be my Sunday School Teacher at the Immanuel Lutheran Church in Seymour. Rove had no connection to her, let alone take piano lessons from her.She lived on a country road where she had her mail delivered via Rural Delivery. Her mail passed through a Main Postal Station in Wallingford Ct., where either it contaminated the PO or the PO contaminated it! Boy talk about Fiction, Geesh, no wonder the repukes think we' idiots !!!:spank: :spank:

[femrap]

50. well aren't you the discerning Xtian....

And as a Xtian, shouldn't you be a tad more diplomatic with your insults....you are starting to sound just like all the other hypocritical xtians I deal with on a daily basis....they are the only ones who are right. And the righteous judgments just keep spewing from their mouths. Just like Jesus, huh?

I wasn't making anything up....I was theorizing as to why she died of the anthrax....but, I forgot you xtians know everything.

Maybe there was no connection to Rove. Maybe someone else. And the connection could be anything, I just used the piano lesson as a 'for instance....guess I need to get out those little faces to make myself clear. It was just a 'way' to show a connection. I gotta tell you...you xtians are a damn literal bunch.

I guess you still like to believe that these men in this regime aren't capable of evil...'devil's work.' I choose to see their evil...it's an ugly Truth. If these guys would send our military to their death based on lies, they're capapble of anything.

And don't you think it's odd that this Widow was the ONLY ONE FROM THE MAIN POSTAL STATION TO HAVE PROBLEMS? I'm sure her immune system wasn't as hardy as some of younger xtians...but why just her?

Ask your Lutheran God and see what she has to tell you. OK?

And the next time you want to call me an idiot or stupid...how about emailing me?

[JanusAscending]

52. OK.... You asked for someone to look into what happened to that

woman "up there in Vermont or Ct." Well all I did was give you FIRST HAND INFORMATION!! I believe in conspiricies as much as the next one here on DU!! But although, I did not "attack you" personally, I stated my facts, and I was generalizing about a lot of Dems just spouting off these "facts" with not a damn thing to back them up!! No personal attack intended, and I'm sorry if you took it that way. You tho' have insulted me just for being a Christian (not Xtian)I agree with every thing you just said about this evil govt. But I resent your attack on me, and did you know you are not supposed to send private messages to continue your attack? Anything you can't say to my face, in front of God, the other members and the Moderators doesn't need to be said. DC

[femrap]

53. Fine...

You did attack me personally....what is calling someone stupid and an idiot? Was that a compliment? Go alert the Admin for all I care. Self-righteous and judgmental Christians bug me and lots of others. Is that public enough for you? When I respond to insults from someone, I prefer to do it in private...buy hey if you like the attention...go for it big boy/girl.

After all you said I gave you and DU a bad name....right? Quit playing that BS game of 'ooooh, I didn't say anything mean...I am a good Christian who never starts anything' CRAP. It's old. It's tired. I deal with your kind in my family every day....They never do anything wrong....they're perfect...just like you.

Where TF is the ignore button? I need more judgement of my life like I need bush starting another war in Iran.

And WTF....why are you scared to respond to my email? Go ahead and print it....or I will....

[JanusAscending]

54. Read my first post again,............... PLEASE,

Nowhere in the post did I say "You" If you'll look back, I said WE twice, and US ! Meaning all Democrats! The spanking was for all who post "what ifs?'" like you did. We have to be able to back up our claims, or we will all look stupid, like "THEY" say we are!! I'm sorry if I offended you, but ya need to get a thicker skin! I would prefer not to give the lurking "freepers" any ammunition.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

56. "We", "Us"...

Why don't you respond to the poster individually, rather than attacking him as somehow representative of the Democratic Party?

And why are you so worried about what "the repukes" think? Have you ever noticed that they're more conspiratorial and paranoid than anyone here? Have you noticed that they think "we' idiots" simply for daring to disagree with Their President?

Hmm.. it almost seems as if Karl Rove himself sent you here to shut down the conspiracy talk? :think: Perhaps we're on to something after all?

[sofa king]

28. Yes, and who was beating the drum first? Judy Miller.

Judith Miller's first articles on an American anthrax lab were published on September 4 and 5, 2001. Regrettably, I can't find the actual articles now, but that Kos diary also explains how even then Miller was already working for The Man. She also received a hoax anthrax letter herself.

September 5, 2001 was the same day that the September 11 terrorists showed up on Jack Abramoff's boat.

[Catrina]

34. Wow ~ Judith Miller again ~ n/t

[Marie26]

37. Didn't she write a whole book

on biological weapons?

[SeveneightyWhoa]

57. Yes, she did.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0001OOUGA/sr=8-2/qid=1141546586

[acmavm]

12. I've always thought that it had something to do with one of the

crazies in this administration. Face it, there's quite a few mentally unhinged loonies who have no place in positions of power.

[FreedomAngel82]

15. Really good article

It goes in depth about what happened and does really well explaning everything. Of course this probably came from Bush's team.

[Hubert Flottz]

18. The fact that Bush bought all the Cipro from Bayer at that time...

is what got me...Bayer was one of the five major corporations that IG Farben was split into at the end of WWII. I G Farben was the Chemical Corporation that helped finance Hitler's rise to power. IG Farben was in on the medical experiments in Hitler's death camps. IG Farben made the very same gas the Nazis used to gas the death camp inmates. IG Farben was using the death camp inmates to build synthetic oil and rubber factories near the Auschwitz death camp. IG Farben was working the inmates to death from starvation and exposure to freezing weather. Prescott Bush was a stockholder in the IG Farben company, he was in charge of their financial and public relations operations in the US.

http://ecosyn.us/Bush-Hitler/Bush-Hitler.html

http://www.tarpley.net/bush3.htm

So along comes 2001-02...

Over 800,000 Former Forced Labourers Compensated

A year after the German foundation to financially compensate Holocaust survivors was set up, 1,5 billion euro ($ 1.48 billion) have been paid to 817,000 claimants world-wide, a representative told DW-WORLD.

Mr Kai Henning, of the German Foundation, "Remembering, Responsibility and Future" can hardly keep the pride out of his voice.

Taking stock of his foundation’s work a year after it was established, he told DW-WORLD in an interview, "it’s a success story. Almost half of the claimants who have approached us in this past year, have been compensated".

Almost exactly a year ago, the German government set up the foundation under public law. The aim was to provide financial compensation through seven partner organisations all over the world, to former forced labourers as well as those who suffered injustices during the reign of the National Socialists in Germany.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,591026,00.html

The American people ended up paying part of IG Farben/Bayer's war debt with the billion dollars Bush spent on Cipro and The German taxpayers paid the rest. The shareholders who own the companies who killed the Jews paid little or NOTHING. It Bailed the big German/American/Swiss chemical/pharmaceutical companies out and it helped Bush push through his own "enabling act"(Patriot Act)at the same time, is what the "Anthrax Attack" did.

[Hubert Flottz]

21. K&R

.

[JohnyCanuck]

30. Anthrax letters were also used to frame Arabs.

The letters contained references to make it seem as if they were coming from Arabs, eg. "Allah is Great." "Death to Israel." So we now know there has been at least one false flag terror attack in recent times used to frame Arabs as the bad guys.

[The Doctor.]

31. Um, you'd have to be pretty naive...

to assume this was the work of a foreign terrorist.

I'd love someone to get to the bottom of this.

[Nikki Stone 1]

32. This theory was obvious at the time. I also suspect the sniper and the

Homeland Security Act vote were connected.

[nicknameless]

33. Did they "anticipate" anthrax attacks before any occurred?

[kestrel91316]

38. Attempted political assassination of the opposition?

Gee........why does this seem entirely plausible to me nowadays?

[Marie26]

40. Don't think they meant

to kill people. Which is why this looks even more like an inside operation. The letters were clumsily addressed & warned that they contained anthrax. Plenty of time for someone to get treatment. It was just enough to scare people. But it looks like they didn't think about the danger to postal workers or cross-contamination to people who weren't warned. Those people ended up becoming most of the casualties.

[JanusAscending]

41. And here in CT. where my mail came through the Wallingford

Regional station, we were all afraid to open our mail, or even handle it without latex gloves for months!!!!

[tomp]

42. the anthrax attacks were a terrorist attack on american soil...

...after 9/11. so how did bush get away with saying in his 2006 SOU that none had occurred? the anthrax episode is, perhaps, the most unbelievable chapter in the story. there is so much evidence gathered already, pointing to one particular military officer (sorry, i don't have the link handy). neither daschle, nor leahy, nor anyone else i know , is calling the administration on this abject failure. the entire episode seems to have been swept under the rug--like they're not even trying. mystifiying.

[magellan]

45. Lt. Col. Philip Zack, formerly of Fort Detrick weapons lab

Discussion here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2488664

I think there's something to this. It had to be an inside job by someone with a militant anti-Arab RW ideology. This guy was caught on camera entering and leaving the lab after he'd resigned his job. He fits the bill in many ways...right down to why certain individuals/agencies in our government would protect him.

[Ganja Ninja]

47. Or it could have been a plot by the Bush administration to ..

try and frame Iraq with an attack on America. I'm not inclined to believe any more stories about rogue scientists doing this on their own.

The procedures and safeguards they would have to follow would make it extremely difficult for someone to steal the Anthrax and prepare the envelopes for mailing during working hours. I would bet that no one is allowed to work alone with this stuff. Furthermore all materials being handled would be checked out and checked in as well as weighed and inventoried each time they are handled.

[magellan]

49. Not difficult at all; many pathogen samples were stolen from Fort Detrick!

The procedure you outline should have been the standard, but wasn't for much of the 90s. The lab at Fort Detrick was described as dysfunctional, with little to no inventorying going on. The microbiologists came and went as they pleased at any time of day and were never checked upon leaving the lab -- even when they no longer worked there. And Zack was caught on camera entering the lab in 1992, after he'd resigned.

Anthrax Missing From Army Lab
January 20, 2002
By JACK DOLAN And DAVE ALTIMARI, Hartford Courant Staff Writers

Lab specimens of anthrax spores, Ebola virus and other pathogens disappeared from the Army's biological warfare research facility in the early 1990s, during a turbulent period of labor complaints and recriminations among rival scientists there, documents from an internal Army inquiry show.

snip

Not in dispute is what the incidents say about disorganization and lack of security in some quarters of the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases - known as USAMRIID - at Fort Detrick, Md., in the 1990s. Fort Detrick is believed to be the original source of the Ames strain of anthrax used in the mail attacks last fall, and investigators have questioned people there and at a handful of other government labs and contractors.

snip

The 27 specimens were reported missing in February 1992, after a new officer, Lt. Col. Michael Langford, took command of what was viewed by Fort Detrick brass as a dysfunctional pathology lab. Langford, who no longer works at Fort Detrick, said he ordered an inventory after he recognized there was "little or no organization" and "little or no accountability" in the lab.

"I knew we had to basically tighten up what I thought was a very lax and unorganized system," he said in an interview last week.

A factor in Langford's decision to order an inventory was his suspicion - never proven - that someone in the lab had been tampering with records of specimens to conceal unauthorized research. As he explained later to Army investigators, he asked a lab technician, Charles Brown, to "make a list of everything that was missing."

"It turned out that there was quite a bit of stuff that was unaccounted for, which only verifies that there needs to be some kind of accountability down there," Langford told investigators, according to a transcript of his April 1992 interview.

This article is one in a page full of others at The Anthrax Investigation. They make an interesting and alarming read.

[fearnobush]

43. My mail room at work was shutdown, torn down and rebuilt with guys

in white suits coming in on the weekends. The Hamilton Mail processing facility is our main mail source. Thats the place in NJ where the letters were first handled. Its a crime as to why no Bullshit M$M corpo giant never covers this story. The Atlanta olympic bomber was all over the news for years yet that incident killed no one other than an Italian reporter who indirectly died of a heart attack while running to the bomb scene to get the story.

[JohnyCanuck]

48. kick n/t

[Harald Ragnarsson]

55. We know this is all tinfoil hattery

Everyone knows the Highjackers dropped the letters in the mail on the way to the airport on 911!

My God! What will the freepers think about us for engaging in such nuttiness?

:sarcasm: