So will Maher still insist

[RoBear]

that getting rid of Saddam was a good thing? Or will he admit that doing so resulted in fomenting civil war? Just wondering...

[danalytical]

1. Saddam being gone

is a good thing. WHY we did it, when we did it, how we did it, and what the plan for restructuring the country was is whole different ball game. I like Bill Maher. I generally agree with him too.

[Mythsaje]

2. The counter to this is that

Iraq actually NEEDS a strongman to keep it together. I don't think it's actually ready for democracy, and forcing it on them like this has predictable results.

[rodeodance]

3. yes, and our Adm. has no intellectuals in place to recognize this.

[Mythsaje]

5. And fired those few who said so...n/t

[danalytical]

6. That may be so

But it's not a very liberal idea now is it. To think that it's better to have a brutal dictator in place is a pretty nasty idea. The best option IMO would have been an internal coup supported by the US financially and logistically. WIth UN troops taking the occupation and reconstruction duty. With generous contracts to Iraqi contractors to get the country back to work.

I'm not so sure I want to say Iraq was a better place with Saddam in power. More likely than not, that is going to lose elections. It might be technically true in the short term, but in the long run a different option to remove Saddam and support Democracy would have been the best bet. If we had UN troops en masse in Iraq, we wouldn't be in this situation.

And BTW, Bill Maher is a much greater friend to those of us at DU then he is to those on the right. You may not agree with him all the time, but who ever agrees all the time?

[Mythsaje]

7. Truth is truth

whether we like it or not.

Saddam WAS a brutal dictator. But his absence is directly responsible for what we're seeing now. We had no right to interfere, and thousands, if not millions, of people will pay the price for our intervention.

I don't have a problem with Maher.

[danalytical]

9. I agree

I'm just saying that Iraq is not necessarily worse off without Saddam. In fact it will be better off eventually, even if we did poke at a hornets nest and stir things up. That country will have 15-20 years of infighting, but eventually they will have to settle their differences and cooperate. Under Saddam, people were just murdered if they didn't like the Sunni iron fist. At least now they can make decisions for themselves, whether they make the right ones or not is going to decide where they end up. So I would have to say, it's not a given that Saddam's Iraq was the lesser of two evils.

[Mythsaje]

10. I might agree...

I'm not sure we're in any position to quantify how bad each option is. Chances are, really, that they'll eventually replace Saddam with either another strongman, or be absorbed into Iran--except for the Kurdish population, which will have to fortify its own position in the years to come.

[danalytical]

12. personally

I would like to see an independent Kurdistan between the Kurd population in Iran, Turkey, and Iraq, they could have a sizeable country. ANd they seem to be the most upstanding of the three factions in the area. We'll see I guess.

[Mythsaje]

13. Well, I know they're generally secular

though they also have an Islamic view of religion.

Can't say THAT'S a bad thing.

[danalytical]

15. Notice who isn't blowing people up?

The Kurds. They seem to be the best thing going there.

[Mythsaje]

16. Absolutely..

though they're in a more secure area with some level of political independence...they don't have to get involved in the fighting. Yet.

On the other hand, they have their own history of internal warfare as well. But at least they're behaving for the moment.

[applegrove]

18. I agree Saddam was no good. And that somehow - the WH didn't

want to "win the peace" too quick. I no longer think the invasion of Iraq was justified. They should have insisted on the deals Saddam was willing to make on elections - then gone in with the whole UN when he failed.

[seabeyond]

4. or.... will he tell us how listening in on our calls isnt a bit deal

if it helps to get a terrorist....... nsa, just dont judge what you are listening too

who is to know what maher will say

[Blue_In_AK]

11. I believe that bit about the NSA was sarcasm...

[seabeyond]

17. really. i didnt pick up on that. i was surprised but then maher has

surprised me in the past. thought it was just another of those moment. the dont judge part would certainly have to fall under sarcasm or else just plain stupid, but i didnt hear it in his voice.

[RoBear]

8. Just for the record...

I won't be at a computer the rest of the day, so I'll miss your responses to this, but IN NO WAY was that intended to be critical of Maher. I watch faithfully and respect his opinions on almost everything. But I don't like him giving *hole any props. See ya tomorrow!

[Orsino]

14. Not mutually exclusive.

But getting rid of Saddam without anything more than Big Tall wishes to fill the power vacuum was definitely one of the worst things ever done.