I am a hunter and fisherman.

[Squatch]

I have been since I was 8 years old. I've hunted upland birds, small game, waterfowl, and big game.

Sometimes I harvest an animal, sometimes I don't, and sometimes I choose not to.

But, one thing I have always had on hunting trips (even the ones out my back door) is fun. Hunting is just damn enjoyable.

It sucks that an animal or more than one animal could die in the process, but that's just the nature of life. Some animals die so that others may live. And, to tell you the truth, it's much more rewarding consuming an animal that you've killed yourself rather than leaving that to anonymous butchers.

Hunting is a completely moral means of killing game animals. Unfortunately, occasionaly boobs like Cheney shoot somebody, and really shift the focus from a healthy discussion of hunting to calls for its abolishment.

I know of dozens of DUers who feel the same way about hunting as I do, and they are just as passionate about wildlife and wild land conservation as they are about the pursuit of game. Hunting is a tradition that spans political groups, so I feel it's in our best interests not to alienate that core group of people.

[occuserpens]

1. I don't like hunting, but I fully respect those who do

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. I don't mind hunters who are sportsmen

My stepfather hunted all his life, and I agree with you that the taste of fresh game is great. But my late stepfather had a word for people who hunted from vehicles, and who hunted not wild animals but only animals that had been raised to be killed. That word is "unsportsmanlike", and his contempt of people who "hunted" like this was unprintable here.

I think the thing we should stress here is the lack of sportsmanship and carelessness of firearms, not the concept of hunting itself.

[Ravenseye]

8. Hunting from cars is just wrong

Isn't it illegal in most places? I'm not sure if it's actually illegal but I was taught that it was. I agree though that the main issue here should be the careless use of firearms.

I'm sorry, but if you use a gun correctly and follow standard safety rules, you're never going to 'accidentally' shoot your 'friend'.

[mtnsnake]

13. That's not hunting. It's killing.

[Ravenseye]

3. Don't forget that it's also necessary

In many locations without hunters, the Deer would overpopulate very quickly, as there are no longer natural predators here besides man. They' be running onto the highways more, killing more people, among other dangerous activities...and then they'd starve to death.

For many of these animals, being hunted and culling their herds is part of the natural process for their species and since we've already eliminated their natural predators like wolves and mountain lions (at least to the point where they can effectively cull the herds themselves), then man needs to step in.

[tanyev]

4. I would be interested in your thoughts on Cheney's

frequent participation in canned hunts.

[Squatch]

10. I've hunted released birds...

under the LinkWestern Washington Pheasant Release Program during a normal hunting season.

I've also hunted released birds on a hunting preserve in NC during the off season. It keeps me sharp for the real bird season.

One thing a responsible hunter must do is maintain his or her skills so that the harvest of game is done a humanely as possible.

[Coexist]

11. Couldn't you do that with target practice instead?

or clays?

[Squatch]

14. Clays do not fly the same as a flushing covey of quail

or a grouse flushing in the woods.

That said, I do enjoy sporting clays and 5-stand as much as I can get out to the range.

I do practice on static targets for rifle and bow hunting, though.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

18. The difference between you and Cheney

is that you are "getting sharp" for the season. I believe (and I may be wrong) that Cheney doesn't hunt wild game, and only goes on 'canned' hunts.

[Squatch]

19. I like to think I'm better looking, too.

:)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

20. Well, everyone knows that

:D

[TX-RAT]

27. Just haven't found a good recipe for Clays.

But i have a bunch for Pheasant.

[Maru Kitteh]

73. Released birds. What a tidy and convenient euphemism for TAME habituated

animals with a reduced fear of humans. In other words domesticated animals.



There are plenty of other ways to practice shooting without using living skeet. It's reprehensible.

[NickB79]

78. Actually no, they are not domesticated or tame

It takes generations of raising animals in close contact with humans to domesticate them. It is not as simple as being there when the animal is born or hatched to instill domestication. Upland birds in particular are very difficult to domesticate. I have been around farm-raised upland birds, and they most certainly don't run around at your feet like ducks or chickens. They are usually not even kept in conventional pens, but large fenced-in areas of land with nets over them to prevent hawks from flying in and the birds from flying out. This negates much close contact with humans until they are captured before release.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[H2O Man]

5. Robert Kennedy Jr

realized early in his career as an enviromental advocate in the legal arena that there is no greater ally than hunters & fishermen.

[Coexist]

7. I agree - with no wild spaces - there are no wild animals to hunt

most hunters don't kill recklessly in large numbers - they enjoy the hunt and then enjoy their game.

[montana500]

76. unfortunately many hunters have been...

brainwashed by the likes of Ted Nugent and others into thinking that selling public lands is good, and wilderness is bad.

[Coexist]

6. I am a vegetarian, but I don't care if you hunt

having a freezer full of venison for a family that could then use the money they would've spent on meat to help themselves in another way doesn't bother me at all.

I just choose not to. My Dad always hunted.

I don't like when endangered species are hunted for sport - or the wealthy bagging 'big game' all over the world just for the photo op - but what are you going to do.

[Neil Lisst]

9. I grew up hunting and fishing, and continued into adulthood.

At some point, however, the lack of sporting attitudes and the rampant carelessness of others made me give it up. Also, the advantage of technology and the fact that people set out feeders and such turn me off.

As I tell my friends who still hunt "chase a deer down on foot and kill it with a knife, and I'll take my hat off to you." Shooting Bambi eating corn you set out is not sport. Even then, it's not like nature unless you take down the weak, and you use the entire animal for food, clothing and tools.

I've never taken a head as trophy and never respected such.

[stepnw1f]

55. Shooting Animals in a Canned Environment

is just blood lust. There is no sport in that.

[Neil Lisst]

85. Agreed. They might as well hunt at the petting zoo. n/t

[misanthrope]

59. That is the predominant way...

...in which human hunting differs from other predators.

Non-human predators select for fitness by targeting the young, old, weak and sick. This helps ensure the genetic viability and overall fitness of the prey species.

Humans do just the opposite. Modern technology allows humans to select against fitness by going after the most fit, the biggest rack, the largest buck, etc. It flies in the face of millions of years of natural selection.

[Neil Lisst]

87. You're right. And it's stupid, too, because buck meat is the worst.

The older males with the big racks have the toughest meat.

[4_TN_TITANS]

83. I'm not a hunter....

but deer that my wife's family have killed made many a meal for us during hard times. My little girls will never lose their taste for fresh deer jerky! Yummmm

:D :D :D

[savemefromdumbya]

12. If one is without food and has to hunt or die....

I don't like it when it is just for fun - sorry!

[DarkSim]

15. Hunting is excellent!

I've been hunting since I was old enough to carry a .22 rifle. Hunting is a great way to spend time and its in no way unfair or inhumane. The animal has a fair chance to run away (They smell you from a kilometer away sometimes >.<) and its not like you're walking in the forest letting loose on the beasts with an Ak-47. I think america should probably impose higher prices on hunting permits (as probably no-one hunts out of subsistence in the USA). Like in Finland, where the profits made from the permits are used to maintain game populations and keep natural areas clean and in great condition. Actually, in Finland it generates such a surplus that they've even got money to plant new fish in lakes that have low populations of fish and make sure that virtually every area with forests/lakes has a ranger watching over it making sure it stays clean and that the populations of huntable animals are decent (not out of control or dangerously small).

[knitter4democracy]

16. I grew up in a hunting family.

My stepbrothers still hunt, mostly to help feed their families. It really helps to have a whole deer or two in the freezer with the cost of food these days.

I can't do it, never have been able to, but I respect those who do it right. I have trouble respecting those who get totally drippin' drunk and then shoot whatever moves or who feed the animals right below their blind. Those who respect the animals, respect the environment, and respect the other humans in the area are true hunters.

Btw, I live in the city, and you wouldn't believe the ten point buck who brings his little herd down to the drainage pond behind our house. I about keeled over the first time I saw him. Just gorgeous and not ten feet from my window eating acorns.

[seabeyond]

17. i dont like guns, hunting or eating game...... but.......

i do see what it gives my husband and now my oldest, glasses wearing, small frame, intellectual, adult reading 10 year old to be good with a shot. and go out with dad for a day. responsibility. skill. bonding. the male being brave keeping emotion in check. i am one of those mama's that have not raised my sons in the traditional male ways, all testosterone aware. this is a good thing for my boy to get dirty, be skilled and learn responsibilty........ only with father, because i wont have anything to do with it anywhere. hat even includes talking about it. it is all father and son, no mama interfering

[marions ghost]

89. so what you say

...leads me to suggest that maybe there could be other male-bonding and coming-of-age rituals that don't involve killing? The primitive message is still there underneath it all...real men kill. Maybe we need to find some rituals that will substitute for this important stage of life for boys (and girls too--the last hunter I encountered who was shooting where he shouldn't have been was with his 12-year-old daughter).

[myrna minx]

21. I'm a passionate environmentalist and a vegetarian but I

I have respect for those who would kill and clean their own food. To me, those who live close to nature have much more respect for her. I think that most hunters and fishermen seek to commune with nature. But look, guns give me the creeps because there are enough yahoos like Cheney who obviously don't know how to use them properly, whether in the city or in nature. There are enough self entitled jerks like Cheney who would go figuratively (or literally :scared:) fishing with dynamite. There are those who seem to enjoy killing for killing sake, and it has nothing to do with the cycle of life or a respect for nature.

I live in Minnesota where the respectful hunters and fishermen outnumber the jerks who blind the deer with headlights and shoot from their cars, but those jerks exist. Since I don't eat meat, I just simply cannot understand hunting, I can't wrap my mind around it, but it doesn't mean that I would condemn it. While I understand the cycle of life, I still get a little choked up if I see a dead sparrow on the sidewalk. There are some folks who don't have the disposition for hunting. There is definitely a divide between some of us but it is not between me and you. I just wanted you to know that even veggies can respect your choice, even though it would never be my choice.

[Squatch]

22. The first time I shot a pheasant, it tore me up

and I cried my eyes out (well, maybe a tear or two :) ). Such a beautiful bird.

It was then that I swore that I would pass up on game if I don't feel "right" spiritually. Just because a monster buck mkes an appearance, I won't shoot unless my mind and spirit are in a good place.

[The Stranger]

23. Oh bullshit.

There are plenty of "traditions" that I have chosen to give up and do not practice for the sake of their being "traditions."

The planet is being depleted of its wildlife on a level that simply cannot be comprehended. Any real connection to life, the Biosphere, and all that is around us eliminates the need to kill something for sport.

Shoot at clay pigeons. Shoot at targets. Shoot at tin cans. But having something die as part of sport is gauche and dated.

[Squatch]

24. Hmmm....

"The planet is being depleted of its wildlife on a level that simply cannot be comprehended"

Link

Damn those deer for taking away forest birds' homes.

[The Stranger]

26. Cute response, but that really just doesn't quite get it.

The ecosystems are completely fucked on every level. Massive development, urban sprawl and, yes, overfishing and hunting have caused links in the chain to fall completely out of balance.

That doesn't mean you call in the rednecks with their shotguns to go "fix" it.

[Squatch]

29. Likewise...cute response, but doesn't cut it...

It helps, in an argument, that you do not categorize the participants of a certain activity as belonging to one social grouping. It kinda kills your credibility on the subject.

Let me ask you a question: can you name an organization, either private or public, that has contributed more to wildlife and wild land conservation (while eschewing the practice of hunting as a wildlife control method) as, say, Ducks Unlimited?

Since its inception in 1937, DU has conserved more than 9.4 million acres of waterfowl habitat throughout North America. DU supporters have raised nearly $1.6 billion for conservation since 1937. No other conservation or environmental group can match DU's accomplishments on behalf of waterfowl, wetlands, and related habitats.

Link

[The Stranger]

34. No need to worry about my credibility.

There is a myriad of pro-environment and pro-conservation organizations (that, perhaps remarkably, are also Progressive organizations) in the United States and around the world that work toward and contribute to wildlife and wild land conservation and eschew the practice of hunting.

In fact, their purpose is to preserve the wildlife and wild land for its own sake and for its own value, rather than so that it can be hunted, or to provide a product for hunters to consume. Even aside from a facts and figures comparison, which can be provided, the inherent value of this goal and these organizations is selfless and self-evident.

[Squatch]

37. I asked for just one, not a "myriad".

"Even aside from a facts and figures comparison, which can be provided..."

OK. Hit me.

[The Stranger]

38. Then you appear to concede the deeper (really spiritual) issue about

how to connect with wildlife and the natural world around us. Better to preserve it for its own sake, rather than to ensure that there is a hunting commodity for people with guns killing things for sport.

[Squatch]

40. One thing at a time...

Waiting on those figures.

[The Stranger]

52. Sure, and you concede that donating money to keep animals around simply

for their eventual consumption as products or destruction as sport is not the same thing as trying to preserve animals and plant habitats, animal and plant wildlife, and animal species for the sake of them as beings in themselves and part of the realm of life we share with them. Subsidizing hunting is not the same thing as preserving animals, it would seem.

It would appear that you have been donating all of your money to a misguided cause, and not one that truly seeks what it purportely claims.

[TX-RAT]

74. I suspect you'll have a long wait.

[stepnw1f]

56. Sounds More Selfless and Productive

You break this down really well. The only thing keeping people from not hunting is the enjoyment of the hunt itself. Setting aside it's "said" effectiveness to preserve land, that to me appears selfish... but then again it was once part of our daily requirement to hunt. I'm sure there are other ways to preserve land and balance ecosystems without hunting.

I'm not pro or or anti hunting for one simple reason... people have hunted for many many years, but I do agree that hunting is NOT necessary, but more of a traditional recreational past-time. I wish we could turn the clock back, but we can't.


To hunters: just hunt responsibly, and listen to what we say without getting offended. We care about the environment too.

[Texasgal]

32. Are you a vegan?

Just curious.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

39. Deleted sub-thread

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[happydreams]

84. What if you just like to kill things?

I for one like shooting chickenhawks.

[msongs]

25. Too bad the animals don't have guns eh? then it would be a real

sport or contest.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[Squatch]

30. I don't want to engage in sport with the animals...

usually, the objective is to kill them, not get into a wrestling match.

[JudyM]

41. "The objective is to kill them." That says it all.

In your OP you imply that hunting is justified insofar as some die so that that others may live; but then you say you don't necessarily eat them, meaning that they are not dying for any cause other than sport. I don't understand why an otherwise kind person would kill or cause pain to a living thing just for the - I don't know: pleasure? - of killing it. Do hunters think animals don't suffer when they're shot? Or they just don't care if an animal suffers?

[Squatch]

42. Where did I say that?

"but then you say you don't necessarily eat them"

I eat everything I kill. Hell, I've even eaten a coot. blech

[JudyM]

44. You wrote "Sometimes I harvest an animal, sometimes I don't...

... and sometimes I choose not to."

[Squatch]

45. And you took that to mean

that I sometimes don't eat what I kill?

Cornfused...:shrug:

[JudyM]

58. Yes.

Does 'harvest' mean something else in hunting lingo?

[Squatch]

61. Answer this question:

where did I say, as you allege with "...then you say you don't necessarily eat them"?

[eppur_se_muova]

88. Well, I respected your opinion up to that point .

"Hell, I've even eaten a coot."

[shrike]

47. Animals suffer all the time

Nature can be a very brutal place. Just turn on the Discovery Channel and have a look sometime.

I don't hunt, have no interest in it, and despise the idiots who go out there once a year and take "sound shots" (that's a term for shooting at rustling in the brush, no matter what it is; I've heard guys talk about doing it.) But OTOH, the Indians hunted, our forefathers all hunted. The only reason we don't hunt today is because we have processing plants and slaughterhouses to do it for us. (Unless you're a vegetarian, and I must say, props to those who oppose hunting AND refuse to eat animal flesh; you have the courage of your convictions, at least.)

I also don't oppose eating meat (do it all the time), because meat made us human: our brains grew because of our fatty diets; if we stayed plant eaters we'd still be up in the trees.

[JudyM]

62. Of course,but we have a choice as to whether we personally cause suffering

I am a vegetarian and while not trying to impose this on anyone, I do not understand - on a spiritual level - why some folks hunt for sport if they're not going to eat the animals they shoot. To me, this is the same as the callous treatment of animals on factory farms, where they're treated like inanimate objects, like things without any sensibilities, so often not properly anesthetized before having their throats slit, etc. I don't see how the fact that animals kill each other in the wild excuses this in any way, since in a matter of personal choice (whether to kill, whether to support factory farming of e.g., veal calves) it is what the individual does that ultimately matters, not what nature does or what capitalist culture does as a matter of routine.

[shrike]

64. Well, as I've said

I take seriously the hunting concerns of any vegetarian because they do practice what they preach.

The reason I brought up the status of the wild world is because too many people have a rather idealized view of it. Some very educated, intelligent people, in fact. Farm animals aren't exactly kind to one another, either: did you know, in fact, that chickens are cannibals in certain circumstances? That if a hen has blood or a sore on her for any reason, the other hens will peck at the bloody flesh, consuming it and killing her if the farmer does not step in. This happens more often than you think when chickens are raised free-range. When they're kept in coops (THEORETICALLY, mind you) they are less likely to be injured and less likely to be cannibalized. Smart free-rangers know to monitor their chickens closely, since a cannibalized hen is lost revenue. (I grew up on a farm, which probably gives me a much less romantic view of animals than most people. I'm also a bit of an outdoorsperson and have seen animals attack and eat each other, and it ain't pretty.)

I guess you have a view that humans have a moral imperative than animals. That's a valid viewpoint. Though the older I get, the less likely I am about the difference between them and us.

BTW, we do agree on one thing: eat what you hunt, or don't hunt at all. I have known folks who've fed their families on deer they shot in season. I don't have much truck with folks who travel about looking to shoot things.

[RaleighNCDUer]

28. I have to wonder -

does Cheney actually consume what he kills on these canned hunts?

And how will bird flu affect bird hunting?

Any chance that he'll catch bird flu?

[Squatch]

31. Somebody posted that he killed 70 birds on a single day

That's just the mark of a bloodthirsty individual.

[RaleighNCDUer]

33. Not necessarily -

maybe he's just storing up for his next 500 year sleep, after which he will awaken again to ravage the world...

[DemonGoddess]

43. The hunters and fishermen

that I know are avid conservationalists as well as being hunters and fishermen. They realize that if they don't work to conserve and protect the wildlife areas, that they will not be able to hunt in the long term. I grew up in a large family, and the extra food that we got from my dad hunting and fishing was always a welcome change in diet, not to mention that my parents always had a big garden that we grew plenty of different kind of vegetables, which ALSO helped a great deal.

[goodboy]

46. great Tool song...sweat...

I'm sweating, and breathing
and staring and thinking
and sinking deeper.
It's almost like I'm swimming.

The sun is burning hot again
on the hunter and the fisherman,
and he's trying to remember when,
but it makes him dizzy.

Seems like I've been here before.
Seems so familiar.
Seems like I'm slipping
into a dream within a dream.
Must be the way you whisper.

The sun is setting cool again.
I'm the thinker and the fisherman
and I'm trying to remember when
but it makes me dizzy.

And I'm sweating, and breathing,
and staring and thinking
and sinking deeper
and it's almost like I'm swimming.

Seems like I've been here before.
Seems so familiar.
Seems like I'm slipping
into a dream within a dream.
It's the way you whisper.
It drags me under and takes me home.

[leesa]

48. I find it sad that you find killing to be "fun". Native Americans used to

apologize to the animals they needed to take for food, didn't they? Fulfilling a need to eat is one thing, and is not wrong, but to experience the killing of an animal as "fun" is just not right.

[Lorien]

67. Amen leesa. Anyone who enjoys killing

is no one I ever want to know. Sorry, but as a wildlife rehabilitator and a vegetarian, I find the idea loathsome in the extreme.

Once upon a time the Democratic party was the "do no harm" party; we were anti-war, anti-human suffering, anti-poverty, and pro- animal rights party. We believed that all living things deserved our respect, and it was rare to find any Democrat who could possibly derive pleasure from the taking of any life. How things have changed. :-(

[DenaliDemocrat]

72. Yet you own three cats...............

Cats kill more wildlife than any other predator...including man. Even if your cats are strictly indoor cats, and never kill anything, you still feed them MEAT! So, animals are dying so you can keep your pets. Are you telling me that a chicken values its life less than a deer values his life? Again, if you, your pets, your children, whatever eat meat SOMETHING HAS TO DIE! Just because you do not have to think about it when you open your can of pre processed cat food does not make it any less real.

Lorien, I respect your lifestyle, but to pretend that animals do not have to die in our world to support EVERYONE's lifestyle is some way is just wrong.

[Arugula Latte]

70. I agree.

Those who think killing is "fun" I do not wish to know. If it's "necessary" -- that's one thing. But fun? No thank you.

[shrike]

49. I love the taste of wild game

'Fraid I can't make apologies for that. Venison, caribou, great stuff.

[DemoTex]

50. I used to hunt.

But while I was in Viet Nam a good friend was killed in a hunting accident in Mississippi. He was going out into a field to retrieve some birds when he tripped and fell on his shotgun. The barrel came up under his chin and the gun discharged when he hit the ground. Basically, it blew his head off. That, plus the violence I witnessed in Viet Nam, put me off the hunt.

However, Squatch's post certainly evokes some of the good times I had hunting. One of my brothers still hunts, and knowing my fondness for game he often has venison, wild boar, ducks, or birds (dove and quail) for my table. I learned to hunt from my father, and I learned how to prepare and cook game from my mother.

I am still an avid fisherman. Although I no longer hunt, I have no problem with those who do, if they do it right. I still have my grandfather's Ithaca 20-gage double-barreled shotgun (actually it is at my dad's house). Now days it is not hard to imaging a time coming when I will be forced to pick up that shotgun again and go into these mountains for game for our table. Like my ability to raise food crops, I will be glad my dad taught me how to hunt and fish.

[redqueen]

51. I don't hunt, but I support the right to hunt.

I agree with you that eating your own kill is more honest somehow than leaving the dirty work to others.

[AngryAmish]

53. I don't hunt

I did not grow up with it and I am afraid of shooting myself or others. There is nothing morally wrong with hunting a healthy population.

I play golf a few times a year in a Cook County Forest Preserve golf course (next to Chicago). The deer have no fear of humans. You can see a dozen different deer at any given time. In the adjacent forest preserve all the vegetation is eaten up to shoulder height. There are no predators and the deer crowd everything else out.

I like fishing. I keep what I will eat. Otherwise the fishy gets to go free.

[The Straight Story]

54. If animals didn't want to be hunted, they would have evolved further

so they could talk or make their own weapons.

Survival of the fittest and all that. Science is great!

Ok some sarcasm :)

[Joe Fields]

57. Have you ever tried bagging game with just a camera?

Or do you simply have a blood lust? Your statement that "it sucks that an animal or more than one could die in the process..." rings hollow with me.

[Beausoir]

60. "It sucks that an animal or more than one animal could die in the process"

That has to be one of the most ridiculous things I've yet read.

Lemme see if I get this straight. You buy a gun and some bullets, spray yourself with deer urine, dress up in camo, march out into the woods and blast the legs off a doe...and then you say it "sucks" that an animal has to die?

Does that make sense to anyone?


Congrats on finding the recreational killing of animals fun. I think anyone who would call that "fun" is sick in the head. Just MHO.

[Dr Fate]

63. My hunting friends are all DEMS and nearly rabid environmentalists.

Thanks for the post...

I have not huinted since I was a boy- I could not imagine an accident that results in shooting someone in the face with a shot-gun- not the way they are describing this.

[SPKrazy]

65. Cheney's Hunting Is Not "Moral"

He hunts to kill, kill, kill.

He shoots birds at a time, you know he doesn't eat those birds

He is a psychopathic killer

[rman]

66. Some animals die so that others may have fun

If you eat most of the animals that you kill, that's different.

But i don't think Cheney eats all the birds that he kills.

[pitohui]

68. i agree squatch

i strongly suspect this story is not abt hunting, it's abt drinking and covering-up, i really do

[progressivebydesign]

69. "some animals must die so others might live"???????

Ummm... tell me exactly how the quail were a threat to mankind? Or perhas foxes? Kill or be killed is kind of how you're couching the sport of hunting, and it doesn't wash. Killing animals for fun is a choice you make, it is NOT survival of the fittest. It's killing another living thing for fun. FUN. Seeing something beautiful that is living and breathing before you extinguished is FUN? Apparently hunters don't grasp that the only they truly have in this lifetime is their LIFE. You choose to take that away from another living, breathing, feeling, thing... the only thing they have. Their life. You take it away for fun. I just don't see how killing something and watching it die could be FUN. :eyes:

[Squatch]

71. In order for you to live, something must die

whether it be a chicken, quail, asparagus spear, or a head of romaine lettuce.

Since I am a meat eater, some animal must die. I prefer taking the animal myself, when possible.

Yes, being an active part of the cycle of life and death is fun.

[Vektor]

75. "It sucks that an animal or more than one animal could die in the process"

...and THAT my friend is what separates you from a trophy hunting greedy boob like Cheney.

You understand that animals are a valuable resource, living things that feel pain, and that it IS sad when they die.

It also sounds as if you hunt responsibly, kill what you need, and plan to eat, and respect the environment.

I don't agree with hunting, but have respect for the rights of others to hunt if they operate within the law, and are respectful of the animal population and the environment when hunting.

Cheney and his ilk just kill for the sake of killing, en masse, and that is abusive, IMHO.

[brainshrub]

77. Agreed.

[karlrschneider]

80. I'm with you except for the non-harvesting part. I've hunted for 56 years

not on a regular basis but except for one rattlesnake I shot when I was a kid, I never killed anything I wasn't going to eat. And if I had known at the time they are actually good to eat, I would have done so.

[ClayZ]

81. Cheney's "PARTY" 400 out of 500 pen-raised pheasants! HOW SICK!

(Karma's Eye is on the Sparrow)

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1215-07.htm
Published on Monday, December 15, 2003 by the New York Times
After Cheney's Private Hunt, Others Take Their Shots
by Elisabeth Bumiller

WASHINGTON -- Vice President Dick Cheney's Christmas card arrived in the capital's mailboxes last week with this suddenly apt quotation from Benjamin Franklin: "And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid?"

Franklin made the remark at the 1787 Constitutional Convention to argue that because something as small as a sparrow's death comes to God's attention, clearly God has a voice in the affairs of men. Therefore, Franklin argued, a prayer should open the daily sessions held to write the founding document of the United States. (Franklin lost the argument, but his passage won a place in history.)

All of which brings us to Mr. Cheney's bird-hunting trip at the exclusive Rolling Rock Club in the hills of southwestern Pennsylvania last Monday, when he and nine others in his party shot some 400 out of 500 pen-raised pheasants released for the morning hunt. No one might have noticed the episode if The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette had not reported it, including the detail that the vice president had shot more than 70 of the ring-necked pheasants himself.

As a result, a lot of other people noticed the fallen birds: hunters who pursue birds in the wild, the Democratic presidential candidates and the Humane Society of the United States, which likened the shootings to the first day of the Iraq war.

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[democrank]

82. Squatch....

I`m a weirdo who occasionally puts peanut butter sandwiches out for my squirrels and who`ll pick up a spider and put it outside rather than kill it. But, I`m not opposed to hunting as long as the hunter follows safety rules and treats the land and animals with respect.

Here in rural Vermont there are many avid hunters. Most of these guys care deeply about our environment and the conditions of the animal population they`re hunting. I respect them for that.Many of them truly depend on the deer they harvest to get them and their family through the winter. This type of honorable hunter is far different from the yahoos who get tanked up on a case of Bud and blast anything in sight...including other hunters, barn doors or someone`s dog. I`m also not terribly fond of the hunter who baits a deer with feed for months then suddenly sits on his porch with a hunting rifle when the deer comes up to eat.

No need to "alienate" hunters. We can agree on many other issues. PEACE.

[OnionPatch]

86. I know so many like you

My husband included. We both grew up in rural areas. Most all of our friends from back home hunt and fish and most of them are also Democrats and consider themselves environmentalists. In fact, several of them are biologists or scientists of some sort and work with the park service, fish and wildlife, etc. None of them are the least bit like some sort of Ted Nugent asshat or anything and all of them belong to conservation groups because they love our wildlands and want them protected.

[rniel]

90. Right on my brother

I'm standing with ya

I'm a hunter and fisherman since I was about 8 years old also.

I haven't done much bird hunting, but hunt with a bow and arrow and sometimes black powder rifle.

And hell yeah I'm a democrat because I care about preserving the land that I hunt and fish on. Well not only because of that, but I won't go on.