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If we are going to execute Saddam for "death and rape"

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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:23 PM
Original message
If we are going to execute Saddam for "death and rape"
of Iraqi citizens, should we demand less for the members of our military that have already pled guilty to committing the same crimes in Haditha?

I am having a hard time saying that we should apply any different punishment to them that we appear to be demanding of Saddam and I am not necessarily in "support" of the death penalty (although I know of one case personally that I have no problem applying that to).

Should these soldiers that are found guilty or plead guilty to the same crimes be treated any differently? What message will that send to the world?
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Blue Fire Donating Member (588 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't think 'we' are executing Saddam for anything.
Was he not tried and convicted under an Iraqi court? I have no problem with the death penalty, and I believe Saddam is going to get better than he deserves.
As far as our soldiers who may have participated in the Haditha atrocities, should they admit or be proven guilty.......like I said, I have no problem with the death penalty.
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. No matter how you slice it WE are executing him
Edited on Fri Dec-29-06 08:37 PM by Sydnie
in the eyes of the Iraqi citizens and most of the world. Had we not illegally invaded the country decades after he committed the crimes he was on trial for,(with weapons that we sold him in the first place)* he would still be in power and not up for execution at all at this point.

He was tried in an Iraqi court but held by us. We are complicit.

*Edited to add the statement within the ( ) above.
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Blue Fire Donating Member (588 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I beg to differ, but no, WE are not.
Edited on Fri Dec-29-06 08:47 PM by Blue Fire
The US had nothing to do with the trial aside from retaining physical custody of Hussein. And one of the reasons for keeping him in our custody was to keep him alive so the Iraqi court could do it's job. But we are responsible for any and all atrocities committed by our soldiers.
Without a doubt our invasion of Iraq was illegal and based on the deceptions of the biggest liar, from a family of liars and profiteers from arms sales to our supposed 'enemy', to live in the White House. But right now we are forced to mop up this mess the best we can. Let's get it over with and move on with a plan to bring our troops home and let Iraq decide it's own future for better or worse.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. If it weren't for the US, none of this would have happened in the
first place.
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Blue Fire Donating Member (588 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Don't you mean if it weren't for Bush?
He may not be on trial.......................yet.
Regardless of his illegitimate presidency, I consider him responsible, as president, for the actions of our country. Just as Hussein was responsible for the atrocities he ordered as president of Iraq.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Oh, yeah, that's who I mean. Him and his cabal that orchestrated
this fiasco but they didn't even know what lousy musicians they were.
The fact that no one had any foresight about anything and are still calling the shots is maddening!
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. In this matter, there are no Iraqis. There are Iraqi Shi'ite Arabs,
Iraqi Sunni Arabs, Kurds, and misc. others. At least in general; there are probably a few individuals that identify first as Iraqi, and only then as Shi'ite, Sunni, or clan member.

The Sunnis will see his execution as the work of the US; it's better to blame non-Arab/non-Muslims than those closer to themselves; it maximizes the perceived humiliation, and therefore the desire revenge, and levels their rage at a licit and safe target.

The Shi'ites and maybe even Kurds will see this as the work of Iraqis, viz. Shi'ites and Kurds, and will judge that they have satisfied the demands of honor, removing much humiliation; for them to say the US was behind it would mean they'd miss out.

The Xians and the rest of the "misc. others" will just hope not to be targeted any more than they are.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. Good question I don't know the answer to.
There are those that will say Saddam did it on a grand scale, which he did. And there are those who support the guilty soldiers because the crimes were committed in a time of war and it's the circumstances that made them do it (as heard on CSPAN this a.m. and BTW, I was appalled at that).
When is the death penalty justified? Is it ever? It depends on who you ask; the jury's still out in my mind.
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Well, the one case in which I would support it
involves the murder of a small boy by adult men who befriended him in his neighborhood, lured him with the promise of a new bike, then killed him, raped him, put his body in a huge rubbermaid container and dumped it in a river two states away. I did not know the boy, I did not know the men. I did know the father of one of the men and there was nothing in his character that would have given anyone the indication that he raised a child that would grow up to do something so vile. The father was a nice man and did not deserve the pain this child brought to him. Last I heard, he was as conflicted as I was on the death penalty in general, but more resolved to it for his own son. What a horrible thing for any parent to have to face, but what those men did to that small boy that considered them to be his friends is unforgiveable.

Jeffery Curley -
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. There are many instances where I can see
backing the death penalty, and this one qualifies. Some people don't deserve to live.
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LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
6. I say hang those bastards too
That girl was FOURTEEN YEARS OLD.
Rapists and pedohiles are the lowest of the low.
I have NO PROBLEM seeing them all go to the gallows.

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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
7. Forget the soldiers
Let Bush pay for his crimes.
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
11. Leaders are more responsible than the soldiers.
Soldiers are victims of circumstance. Sure, some are bad apples, but the policies that put them there are more responsible.
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lies and propaganda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
13. i'd like all rapists to die personally.
the only assurance they will never hurt like that again.
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