Dateline NBC Immigration discussion thread.

[The Anti-Neo Con]

Did anyone watch the Dateline special tonight with Tom Brokaw on immigration?

It featured a company called Gould Construction who was hiring legal and illegal immigrants. It was a good show in my opinion, but what really got me was when the owner of this construction company said he could not find workers to do the work for him for $14 an hour!!!!!!!! If he is so short on help, he could come recruit in cities like here in St. Louis, Detroit, Gary, Indiana, or Dayton, Ohio, and he would have THOUSANDS of applicants within a day or two who are legal and would be willing to do the job. I'm almost tempted to call them and tell them I'll come out there and work for them, I would love to make $14 an hour.

Anyway, post your thoughts on the show...

[brer cat]

1. I didn't see the show but

I get so tired of these comments that legal workers won't take jobs paying this much above min. wage. That is bull*! If they can't get legal workers, there is an issue beyond pay. Maybe crappy working conditions or something, but $14/hour isn't the reason they have to hire illegals.

[Warpy]

2. $14/hour doesn't go far in California

certainly not as far as it goes in the midwest. Check out the living situation, the multiple families in one house, each family squashed into one room, kids sleeping on the floor. That's what $14/hour will get you in California.

If that asshole paid a living wage instead of padding his own lavish lifestyle, he'd get plenty of Anglo workers. As it is, the only ones who can afford to work for that wage are people who either have small mortgages from the mid 70s or who cut living expenses by living with parents.

That's the problem, assholes wanting bargain basement labor. Illegals are willing to pay their dues by living in overcrowding and squalor, so they'll take those jobs.

It's a shame that anger is rising against hardworking people from Mexico. It's a crying shame that anger against US workers by white collar twits who don't know how hard it is to live on shit wages in this country is building, thanks to propaganda from bosses. It's a dirty shame that the laws fining these cheapass bosses aren't being enforced and haven't been for the last two administrations.

Put the anger where it belongs, where Brokaw and his network will never admit it belongs, right onto the employers.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

3. $14/hr was good for me as a single person in California.

[Warpy]

4. When?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

6. Couple of years ago.

I wasn't rich by any means, but it was enough for rent, food and some extra money.

[Warpy]

8. That was when housing was in the middle of superheating

and taking rents with it.

Again, you were single. Anglos who would be interested in working construction don't want to be single and live in shithole apartments on fast food all their lives. They want to marry, raise families, maybe buy a house or at least a trailer, and raise their kids.

You can't do that on $14.00/hour in California. Period.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

10. I never said they could.

I said as a single person in California, $14/hour was decent. My apartment may not have been huge, but it wasn't a shithole -- it was roomy enough in a safe area of Los Angeles.

And I'm not an Anglo, if that helps.

[Bobbieo]

5. The only way to stop illegal immigration is to FINE the US employer!

[Starbucks Anarchist]

7. I agree.

[Kiouni]

9. what about building economic stability

in Mexico? We have the resources.

[YOY]

16. Psaw that would throw all that cheap and disposable labor NAFTA worked so hard for!

:sarcasm:

[Yukari Yakumo]

26. And if they are knowingly employing illegals, jail. {nt}

uguu

[The Anti-Neo Con]

18. It was in Colorado, not California.

I know what you mean though, $14 an hour is nothing in CA or NYC.

Colorado has a moderate cost of living IIRC.

[Warpy]

20. It depends on the part

Within an hour's drive of Aspen or Telluride, forget it. At $14/hour, you'll be living in your car.

[pstans]

11. I don't buy the line that he company can't find people to hire

It is simple supply and demand. They can't find workers at the wage they are offering. If they raise the wage, they will have workers.

[Contrite]

12. That is exactly right. It's about their profit margins, period.

These guys said they are turning down RFPs because of a shortage. Bullshit. If they are turning down RFPs it's because they can't get enough cheap labor to make a killing on those RFPs and still keep their bids down low enough to win the contract.

[Bobbieo]

13. Then, they should be given a stiff fine when they hire illegals.

That is the bottom line to the immigration problem.

[Contrite]

14. Yup. Hit them where it hurts.

They can either pay more for their help, and pay the taxes rather than cash under the table, or they can pay the fines.

Labor law and immigration law enforcement.

IT'S THAT SIMPLE.

As for the illegals, they can either get legal, go home or join the armed services.

[Yukari Yakumo]

27. I think some of them don't care about fines...

To some of the employers, fines are nothing but a slap on the wrist.

Maybe some jail time will shape some of these guys up.

[Contrite]

28. Up the fines.

If it costs them dearly to hire illegals, more than to hire legal workers or union workers, they'll rethink the strategy and find other ways to be competitive with their RFPs.

[Yavin4]

15. No One Should Be Allowed to Work in America without Being A Citizen

When you have a workforce without citizenship rights, then you have slavery. Working without citizenship rights, creates an underclass without rights, and that's dangerous for a democracy.

[ContraBass Black]

17. So, how should the hundreds of thousands of college students from

Other countries, all of the resident aliens, and all of the people who are in the naturalization process but haven't completed it yet feed themselves?

[Yavin4]

30. If You're In The Process of Becoming A Citizen

then you would have a very limited time to work until that process is complete. If you haven't become a citizen, then you can no longer work.

The danger is that you do not want a large, and growing workforce, with no citizenship rights at all. That will lead to abuses, unsafe working conditions, etc.

[northofdenali]

19. ?? ....

:popcorn:

[Yavin4]

31. We Had A Workforce without Citizenship Rights Before

It was call slavery, and we still have not fully recovered from that era. In fact, that period still defines us to this day. Having a workforce without full citizenship rights creates a permanent underclass that continues generation after generation.

[I_Make_Mistakes]

21. It was $14.00/hr plus benefits. I thought they brought up some

interesting issues, esp. the young white American guy who said that he could go anywhere and get a job in the area (Gould employee). They apparently do have a have a worker's market there.

He did bring up the point where the illegals were breaking laws though, such as in a condo development where there were like ten people living in one unit. I know that we have local laws concerning how many people can live in an x size dwelling.

I have to agree with the poster up thread though, I think there are alot of people willing to locate either temporarily or permanently for work.

I think the immigration issue has become such a mess, because we did not address the issue earlier.

I do waiver back and forth on how it should be addressed, BUT it does have to be addressed.

[Contrite]

22. There are lots of construction workers in the Denver area

and I'm quite sure with the tremendous real estate slowdown there they would be pleased to move a bit farther west and work in Glenwood Springs, which is quite a lovely area and yet not that expensive to stay in. I know GCs from other states, like Utah, who are looking for construction work in Colorado.

[I_Make_Mistakes]

23. I don't have time to check, but it would be interesting to see if

there is a lack of information available on these jobs. Are they posted on the internet etc. If you do know folks that would be willing to go there, you really should tell them (well, it's winter now). The way they were talking, there is a lot of construction going on there!

[Contrite]

24. Interesting follow-up story here

http://www.postindependent.com/article/20061223/VALLEYNEWS/112230047&SearchID=7326715229472

According to this, the "only people" lining up were Hispanics because "young American males" don't want to do the hard ditch-digging work (Gould is an excavation company). I wonder how the hiring call/notices went out, myself. Also wonder how many people saw this report and will be calling Gould looking for work.

[The Anti-Neo Con]

29. Like I said, they should recruit in the rust belt.

There are cities in this country that have 25+% unemployment where they would have no problem finding workers. I personally know of some people who have been unemployed 3-5 years who would go out there at the drop of a hat if they had a job offer.

[oldlady]

25. I wish US citizens would

focus on the real job "theft" -- how did all the outsourcing take place without raising such ruckus? Bring those jobs back --